dextrose,simple sugar while cutting??PWO???

**Elias** · 06-05-2008, 08:14 AM

do u have in ur post-wo shake simple sugars or dextrose while cutting??
i dont but am intrested in seing some ideas maybe ill change a bit.

**ckyass** · 06-05-2008, 09:09 AM

What do you mean? Dextrose is a simple sugar. Yes i always use either dextrose or waxy maize pwo regardless of cutting or bulking......same rules apply.

**abbot138** · 06-05-2008, 09:19 AM

I use waxy while cutting. Seems to be a matter of personal preference, I know a lot of guys on here just use oats PWO. I agree with ckyass, same PWO nutriton rules should apply to bulking or cutting.

**M302_Imola** · 06-05-2008, 10:49 AM

I use WMS as well. How many grams are you having pwo?

**Elias** · 06-05-2008, 11:16 AM

can i just use oats instead??
i dunno wana spike a lot my insulin ..... coz i was reading about it and u shouldnt spike ur insulin while on cutting phase.....

**abbot138** · 06-05-2008, 11:47 AM

Read my previous statement

**M302_Imola** · 06-05-2008, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Elias

can i just use oats instead??
i dunno wana spike a lot my insulin..... coz i was reading about it and u shouldnt spike ur insulin while on cutting phase.....

I don't agree with your statment. An insulin spike pwo is vital and needs to occur immediately after your workout. You can use oats (which will spike your insulin as well) but these carbs will be absorbed a lot slower than a high GI carb (ex. WMS or dextrose). The instant you complete a workout your body is starved (depleted) and needs nutrients asap or it will start burning muscle. That is why I am a firm believer in WMS due to its absorption rate being very fast. To answer you question, oats will suffice but there are faster absorbing carbs out there.

**abbot138** · 06-05-2008, 01:02 PM

^^^^^Thats my dawg right there!

**M302_Imola** · 06-05-2008, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by abbot138

^^^^^Thats my dawg right there!

nah...u the man!

**FallenWyvern** · 06-05-2008, 08:46 PM

Oats or fruit for me!

**DSM4Life** · 06-05-2008, 08:48 PM

I use to believe in spiking but after doing a lot of research i am no longer a believer.

**M302_Imola** · 06-06-2008, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

I use to believe in spiking but after doing a lot of research i am no longer a believer.

Prove your point, show us some evidence of your findings.

**lil hulk** · 06-10-2008, 11:42 PM

I dotn like it for the simple fact that is was the main reason in my cutting diet that i was putting on weight....but my body is basically elergic to sugar so i stay away from any types...but everybody body is diffrent so figure out if it works for u!!!

**soulstealer** · 06-12-2008, 02:22 PM

double post...

**soulstealer** · 06-12-2008, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

I don't agree with your statment. An insulin spike pwo is vital and needs to occur immediately after your workout. You can use oats (which will spike your insulin as well) but these carbs will be absorbed a lot slower than a high GI carb (ex. WMS or dextrose). The instant you complete a workout your body is starved (depleted) and needs nutrients asap or it will start burning muscle. That is why I am a firm believer in WMS due to its absorption rate being very fast. To answer you question, oats will suffice but there are faster absorbing carbs out there.

See I totally disagree with this kind of thinking now in other words why allow your body to get depleted... I'm an advocate of pre and PWO low gi carbs with high GI intra-workout carbs these are my current bulking regiment

Pre workout meal:
8oz chicken breast with 1 cup oatmeal and 2 servings blueberries

30minutes later begin workout... intraworkout shake...
60g dextrose 50g whey protein(sipped throughout workout and finished before cardio)
weghts+30 minutes cardio
PWO meal:
50g carbs from brown rice + 1 can tuna fish....

works extremely well.... especially since your burning all of this off your muscle suck it up like a sponge...

**C_Bino** · 06-12-2008, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

I don't agree with your statment. An insulin spike pwo is vital and needs to occur immediately after your workout. You can use oats (which will spike your insulin as well) but these carbs will be absorbed a lot slower than a high GI carb (ex. WMS or dextrose). The instant you complete a workout your body is starved (depleted) and needs nutrients asap or it will start burning muscle. That is why I am a firm believer in WMS due to its absorption rate being very fast. To answer you question, oats will suffice but there are faster absorbing carbs out there.

Not true. You never NEED high GI carbs. Yes you are in a catabolic state PWO...you need to replenish AMINO's...why do you think that you need to have fast acting carbs to build msucle? That makes no sense man sorry. Especially if you are cutting you dont need to be using dextrose or waxy maize starch.

I use it from time to time depending on what muscle I am working out etc. But there is never ever a need for it and it will not help you retain more muscle than using oats or a low GI food. And that is fact.

It makes no sense at all that you would retain more muscle using something that raises your blood glucose faster rather than slower. Carbs dont build muscle, protein does.

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 06-12-2008, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Not true. You never NEED high GI carbs. Yes you are in a catabolic state PWO...you need to replenish AMINO's...why do you think that you need to have fast acting carbs to build msucle? That makes no sense man sorry. Especially if you are cutting you dont need to be using dextrose or waxy maize starch.

I use it from time to time depending on what muscle I am working out etc. But there is never ever a need for it and it will not help you retain more muscle than using oats or a low GI food. And that is fact.

It makes no sense at all that you would retain more muscle using something that raises your blood glucose faster rather than slower. Carbs dont build muscle, protein does.

Exactly...

People a hugely mistaken when they think you must have some high GI carb PWO.

All you need is protein/oats w/ your bcaas,gluatmine,liquid aminos, etc.

I do sometimes though, use wms like bino said.

lol man Bino, we hit on diet on pretty much everything. Now if only I could follow mine like you follow yours hahaha

**C_Bino** · 06-12-2008, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by xlxBigSexyxlx

Exactly...

People a hugely mistaken when they think you must have some high GI carb PWO.

All you need is protein/oats w/ your bcaas,gluatmine,liquid aminos, etc.

I do sometimes though, use wms like bino said.

lol man Bino, we hit on diet on pretty much everything. Now if only I could follow mine like you follow yours hahaha

Oh ya its hard man, I find actually the first 4 weeks the hardest to get into it. Once in in its easy and I dont wanna cheat at all. But then when Im gettin really low and cutting back more and more with diet it gets to me mentally. I get irritable for sure.
Right now Im sittin around 6% bf and about ready to jump ship and get some food in me again lol.

But ya you got some good dieting perspectives man. Good stuff.

**M302_Imola** · 06-16-2008, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by soulstealer

See I totally disagree with this kind of thinking now in other words why allow your body to get depleted... I'm an advocate of pre and PWO low gi carbs with high GI intra-workout carbs these are my current bulking regiment

Pre workout meal:
8oz chicken breast with 1 cup oatmeal and 2 servings blueberries

30minutes later begin workout... intraworkout shake...
60g dextrose 50g whey protein(sipped throughout workout and finished before cardio)
weghts+30 minutes cardio
PWO meal:
50g carbs from brown rice + 1 can tuna fish....

works extremely well.... especially since your burning all of this off your muscle suck it up like a sponge...

I like the way you think...it makes since to me to never let your body get depleted, although I know many people will disagree. My pre workout meal is 1 can of tuna, 3 hard boiled egg whites, and 1 cup of oats 1 hour before I workout. Following my workout I consume a 24 gram whey protein shake then perform 30 minutes of cardio (60% MHR). Following the cardio I consume 60g of WMS, 1 banana, and 48g of whey protein shake. So far I have had good results with this.

**M302_Imola** · 06-16-2008, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Not true. You never NEED high GI carbs. Yes you are in a catabolic state PWO...you need to replenish AMINO's...why do you think that you need to have fast acting carbs to build msucle? That makes no sense man sorry. Especially if you are cutting you dont need to be using dextrose or waxy maize starch.

I use it from time to time depending on what muscle I am working out etc. But there is never ever a need for it and it will not help you retain more muscle than using oats or a low GI food. And that is fact.

It makes no sense at all that you would retain more muscle using something that raises your blood glucose faster rather than slower. Carbs dont build muscle, protein does.

So you think WMS is a bad carb choice while cutting. I am new to cutting so I will take your advice. So you suggest 50g whey + 50g of oats? The only problem I have with oats is that they aren't that convenient. How about a banana and 50 grams of whey, then 20 minutes later, when I get home from the gym, I have 1 cup of oatmeal. Would this be a good pwo meal in your eyes? Would the whey and banana tide me over until I can get home to have some oats? Congrats on getting down to 6% bf, my goal is 8% bf at this time.

**Dictator** · 06-30-2008, 03:38 AM

dont you think you need the high GI to spike your insulin to shuttle all this to the cells fast? thats the point of high GI. low GI would take a while and this 15-20 minute window would be lost. thats my take on it.

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Oh ya its hard man, I find actually the first 4 weeks the hardest to get into it. Once in in its easy and I dont wanna cheat at all. But then when Im gettin really low and cutting back more and more with diet it gets to me mentally. I get irritable for sure.
Right now Im sittin around 6% bf and about ready to jump ship and get some food in me again lol.

But ya you got some good dieting perspectives man. Good stuff.

**godkilla** · 06-30-2008, 09:28 AM

i stopped using dex quite awhile ago and i am alot leaner than i was when using it. i might add some dex to my pwo whey/oats if i am desperate for cals during a bulker, but thats about it.

**Dictator** · 06-30-2008, 11:07 AM

i never used dex more than a couple times. i noticed that it bloated my face and made me fat. so did peanut butter. if the dates give me a problem, ill switch to sweet potato.

**ckyass** · 07-01-2008, 09:56 AM

Ya know you really need to just test out all the pwo choices and see what you like. I was able to put on ALOT of weight when i did dex/malodex pwo....BUT i felt like shit after the shake and it also made me feel very bloated. I've tried oats and that seemed to work well.....BUT i didnt feel it replenished glycogen as effectivly as dextrose/mal. Waxy maize is good.......i would compare it more too oats...very similar results. Overall...i was able to add the most "weight" / Muscle with dextrose/malodextrin. However i use waxy maize because i didnt like the bloat/crash/feeling of shit dextrose gave me lol. TRY them all out!

**Garbanzo Dude** · 07-01-2008, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

I use to believe in spiking but after doing a lot of research i am no longer a believer.

Where is all the research??

I keep reading and everyone tells me you need simple carbs post workout to shuttle aminos to the muscle fast....

**TheArtist** · 07-02-2008, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Garbanzo Dude

Where is all the research??

I keep reading and everyone tells me you need simple carbs post workout to shuttle aminos to the muscle fast....

did you read the rest of this thread?
bino and bigsexy said why you shouldn't.

**ckyass** · 07-02-2008, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Garbanzo Dude

Where is all the research??

I keep reading and everyone tells me you need simple carbs post workout to shuttle aminos to the muscle fast....

Try each one out for a month......see which one gives you the best results. I always felt simple carbs did the best job....just didnt enjoy the crash afterwards.

**Garbanzo Dude** · 07-02-2008, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by TheArtist

did you read the rest of this thread?
bino and bigsexy said why you shouldn't.

I do respect their opinion especailly binos' ....as a few people I know have used his Gyno protocol with great success.....but I was looking for any reports, studies etc. to show why you should not have fast acting carbs PWO

With that said I will try oatmeal...or some wheat toast PWO and see what kind results I get.

**john1181** · 07-13-2008, 03:14 PM

Idk About You Guys But After My Work Out Ihave Some Liquid Amino Acids, A Zero Carb 50grms Of Protien Shake With Water 15mins Later And Then I Eat Some Chicken Or Lean Fish Or Egg Whites With Some Veggiez And Some Healthy Oils...gla/cla/flax/fish Oils...i Do Not Lose Any Muscle-strength Nothing...i Just Feel Hungry As Hell!!!! So A Couple Or Hours Later I Sleep Or Have A Cheat Protien Bar! Yea With Carbs..a Mass Bar Anything Big

**JAY_WD** · 07-13-2008, 05:08 PM

So then what is the best form of Carb to consume post workout if on a strict cutting diet??

**john1181** · 07-13-2008, 05:20 PM

for me which i dont have and of but if you have to have some is some dextrose during the workout...thts about it..post meal can be fiberous of just fatty acids with the lean protien 1-2hours b4 the workout..agan thats just me

**JAY_WD** · 07-13-2008, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by john1181

for me which i dont have and of but if you have to have some is some dextrose during the workout...thts about it..post meal can be fiberous of just fatty acids with the lean protien 1-2hours b4 the workout..agan thats just me

Let me start over.

At the moment i consume approx 70-100g Dextrose post workout with about 50g Protein.

If dextrose is not the best choice for post workout carbs for insulin spike, what is?

Bearing in mind that i am on a strict cutting diet.

**john1181** · 07-14-2008, 01:07 AM

i hear about some waxy..but dextrose is good..aything oer 3ogms will spike insulin to a point where fat is stored from what ive read..so even 50 is fine..just think, how many calories ill you burn during your workout? then figure out how many calories are in 50gms of dextrose and go from there ddepending on how muchu wanna deplete

**JAY_WD** · 07-14-2008, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by JAY_WD

Let me start over.

At the moment i consume approx 70-100g Dextrose post workout with about 50g Protein.

If dextrose is not the best choice for post workout carbs for insulin spike, what is?

Bearing in mind that i am on a strict cutting diet.

Can anyone give me a straight answer please....

**godkilla** · 07-15-2008, 01:27 AM

oats. get a grinder and you can grind that shit up and drink it anywhere. i know alot of guys who use dex, but none of the guys that i know who compete use it precontest.

**QBERT** · 07-15-2008, 10:32 AM

I personally don't like dextrose for cutting PWO. Novastepp has some good theories on this as well in the diet forums. From my experience it made me feel bloated after my WO when I was using a 2:1 carb/pro ratio. I was so full after consuming dextrose that it was hard for me to eat 1 hour after my WO. I think there are far better substitutes out there such as whole oats.

**john1181** · 07-15-2008, 04:00 PM

bros wat about just whey and no carbs? isnt it true that the body burns the protien for energy then burns fat? i just remembered doing that a while back an i'm gonna do it again..arent oats starchy and do nt cause insuline spike..this guy wants something to spike his insuline..what about some pure ney instad of dextrose? hone is said to be very healthy contains over 500 different tings good for you..look it up fellaz..and its natural like crazy..bro seriously get some panax ginseng some honey some liquid aminos and some royal jelly and hit it up 30mins b4 your workout you will burn some fat and have crazy energy!! try it

**JAY_WD** · 07-22-2008, 06:59 PM

bump for answer for best carbohydrate source post workout to spike insulin whilst on a strict cutting diet.

**C_Bino** · 07-22-2008, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by JAY_WD

bump for answer for best carbohydrate source post workout to spike insulin whilst on a strict cutting diet.

If you WANT to spike insulin have whatever you want. But why spike insulin? Just have a regular low GI carb like sweet potatoes, ezekiel bread, oats etc.

**Phate** · 07-22-2008, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

If you WANT to spike insulin have whatever you want. But why spike insulin? Just have a regular low GI carb like sweet potatoes, ezekiel bread, oats etc.

so whats your take on using an intraworkout drink with say 40g of carbs, 5g glutamine, and 5g micronized creatine to help replenish glycogen and creatine phosphate stores as well as keeping your amino acid pool full as to keep your body from entering a catabolic state.