trouble with last bit of belly fat

[AdamGH]

I am currently just over 4 months in at getting back in shape again. I guess I am in shape by now lol. I have fine tuned everything I can. Ive had nark and nova help me with my diet. My training routine is great imo. Ive gone from 230lbs to 202lbs since may 3. This translates from a 40 waist to just under 36, maybe a 34 waist. I am probably around 10-11% bf. Ill put pics up soon to show it on my post i made in the members section. Overall, I think I look really good! I mean if you saw the before pics it is pretty crazy to how I look now. Even though I'm pretty strict on my daily diet, I feel my belly fat is sticking. It is not a lot, but enough to cover my abs more than I like.

My question through all this is am I expecting to much to soon? Should I just relaxing and give it more time to come off? Maybe I am doing something wrong? It just gets frustrating sometimes you know. You feel like you try so hard to get your body in your minds eye, perfect. When the fat seems like it just stays.... Who else has had problems like this and what fixed it for you?

[abbot138]

Yup, just have patience bro. I have read your posts and I know you have the dedication and the know-how to get it done, you just have to stay at it. Keep in mind that the leaner you get the harder it is to lose body fat. If you are down to 10% or so then it might be time to do some carb cycling or manipulate your calories in some way (although this should always be a last resort, you should up your output, before messing with your input). Getting to 10% is what Nark calls "getting primed," after that the real fun begins You really arent going to start to see the type of results in your abs that I know you want to see until you get around 8% or less. Just keep going, it will happen...cardio, cardio, cardio and more cardio.....I know your big on the HIIT but maybe try to switch it up and throw in some AM fasted steady state cardio.

[AdamGH]

Yup, just have patience bro. I have read your posts and I know you have the dedication and the know-how to get it done, you just have to stay at it. Keep in mind that the leaner you get the harder it is to lose body fat. If you are down to 10% or so then it might be time to do some carb cycling or manipulate your calories in some way (although this should always be a last resort, you should up your output, before messing with your input). Getting to 10% is what Nark calls "getting primed," after that the real fun begins You really arent going to start to see the type of results in your abs that I know you want to see until you get around 8% or less. Just keep going, it will happen...cardio, cardio, cardio and more cardio.....I know your big on the HIIT but maybe try to switch it up and throw in some AM fasted steady state cardio.

Thanks for the kind words abbot! The body fat is just a guess, but I think at worse Im 12%. I want to hit 8% though! My body is just fighting tooth and nail to keep this layer on me. It's like I'm stuck or something lol! Just that section on abs, plus a little loose on sides and lower back if you know what i mean. Its really not much, but just enough to cover what i want visible. I start to wonder if I'm not genetic friendly to visible abs. I pretty sure some people have it way easier. Maybe when I eventually get on the juice I can overcome it. Not sure how that works yet.

I actually have been switching up the cardio. Mainly for change of pace. You know how you get bored after awhile.


Another thing I am noticing as well. It seems the more I workout my stomach, the more it almost wants to stick out. Its like my stomach muscles are getting thick! Trust me it isnt fat, I know the difference. So that gets frustrating cause I dont want to have a shirt on and people think I have a gut!

[abbot138]

Thanks for the kind words abbot! The body fat is just a guess, but I think at worse Im 12%. I want to hit 8% though! My body is just fighting tooth and nail to keep this layer on me. It's like I'm stuck or something lol! Just that section on abs, plus a little loose on sides and lower back if you know what i mean. Its really not much, but just enough to cover what i want visible. I start to wonder if I'm not genetic friendly to visible abs. I pretty sure some people have it way easier. Maybe when I eventually get on the juice I can overcome it. Not sure how that works yet.

I actually have been switching up the cardio. Mainly for change of pace. You know how you get bored after awhile.


Another thing I am noticing as well. It seems the more I workout my stomach, the more it almost wants to stick out. Its like my stomach muscles are getting thick! Trust me it isnt fat, I know the difference. So that gets frustrating cause I dont want to have a shirt on and people think I have a gut!

I have said pretty much every word you just said at some point in the past year or so. I dont know how many times I said, "i just dont think im genetically capable of having abs." LOL, you have to avoid thinking like this, bc its just not true.....That being said, its is true that some people have an easier time burning fat. Unfortunatley the human body puts fat on first and takes fat off last in the same places, for most men its normally lower stomach, lower back and lower/outer pecs. You just gotta stick with it, it will come. I can tell you that gear will do very little as far as reducing body fat. Its all cardio and diet. Have you thought about using a thermogenic? Either clen or ECA or an OTC like Lipoflame or Lipoburn (whatever the fvck its called). Even if your at 12%, thats a perfectly acceptable time to start using a fat burning supplement....And I definately know where your coming from with the abs sticking out thing, and its definately a possibility that your abs are getting thicker and are pushing out the layer of fat on top of them (they are a muscle like any other muscle and will grow when worked out). A lot of body builders wont even mess with abs until they get their body fat low enough to where they can seem them (single digits). And the fact is if you do heavy compound lifts you dont really need to workout abs as a seperate body part. So you may want to just stop working them out until you get into single digits, trust me they arent going to go away, they will be there, you just have to keep burning the fat that is covering them.....Sounds to me like your doing all the right things bro, consider using a thermogenic, but other than that, its all diet and cardio, which you already know. Its a long-term process thats for sure. But its well worth it in the end. Once you get under 10 chances are your BF will never get much higher than 14% or so again, if that. I think this is discussed in the Nark/Nova thread. Im not sure if its a biological thing or mental. IMO its largely mental, after getting as lean as I did this past summer and starting my bulk from about 7% its hard to really let yourself put on BF, Im at about 9.5% right now and I feel like a cow, lol, so I started adding back in a little light cardio....Anyyyyhow, just keep going bro, it'll happen, YOU CAN HAVE ABS, trust me.

[ghettoboyd]

if your doing a lot of weighted ab exercises maybe lessen or use no weight at all with higher reps.also our backs have a natural curve to them that makes our stomaches appear to stick out. so maybee thats all it is is your posture. im having the same prob with that last bit of bodyfat myself. ive gone from a 36" waist to a 31". but i wont be satisfied till im ripped.

[Norwich Muscles]

Take some clen to get rid of stubborn fat man

[FallenWyvern]

I agree with abbot. Getting to 10% was pretty easy for me. Seems like my body really doesn't like being any lower.

I would do ECA but not really interested in quick, temporary fixes. I am interested on what you do to make it happen.

[fit4ever180]

How often do you train abs and what is your training regimen for them?

I was at a 46 inch waist and trimmed down to 31, but it wasn't until I dropped all the weight that I realized I wouldn't have abs unless I really hit them hard. Imo, they have more endurance than any other muscle including calves, so you need to train them for endurance. I started out lifting weights with them, but noticed my waist was getting thicker and definition was not really improving, so I switched to very high rep and giant sets. After 2 months of that, my abs got shredded! I was to the point where my ab workout was close 1.5 hours 6 days a week...

It went something like this:

Hanging leg raises 6 sets to the front and 4 sets to each side to failure (after two months, failure was around 60-70 reps)

Side-twists and bent side-twists 4 sets of each at 30 reps
6 different crunch variations for 30-50 reps per variation all in one giant set... 3-4 giant sets performed...

Cables crunches (forward and to the sides) 4 sets of each at 15 reps (60lbs.)

Personally I'd recommend the leg raises over anything and I always try to isolate my lower abs because they are harder to bring out and your upper abs are always working even when you try to focus on the lower, so there is no need to isolate them. Again, jmo...

[novastepp]

post up your diet, i'd like to look at what we can cycle and if we can change anything. plus we could tweak your training a bit to torch the last bit.

[AdamGH]

post up your diet, i'd like to look at what we can cycle and if we can change anything. plus we could tweak your training a bit to torch the last bit.

Im 5'10," 202 lbs, 12% body fat or lower.

Meal 1:
1 whole egg - 70 calories, 6g protein, 5g fat
1 ½ cup egg whites - 180 calories, 36g protein, 0g fat
1/2 cup oats - 150 calories, 5g protein, 3g fat, 27g carbs
4 caps Fish, Flaxseed, Borage Oil combo- 40 calories, 4g fat

Totals: 440 calories, 47g protein, 27g carbs, 12g fat

------Generally workout in between these meals--------------

Meal 2:
6oz chicken - 165 calories, 34.5 g protein, 3.75 fat
6 oz Sweet potato - 155 calories, 36g carbs, 3.75g protein, 0 fat
8 caps Fish, Flaxseed, Borage Oil combo- 80 calories, 8g fat

Totals: 400 calories, 39g protein, 36g carbs, 12g fat

Meal 3:
2 cans of Tuna - 200 calories, 44g protein, 4g fat
2 cups Broccoli - 60 calories, 4g protein, 0 fat, 23g carbs
Mayo 2 tbsp - 90 calories, 8g fat, 4g carbs

Totals: 350 calories, 48g protein, 27g carbs, 12g fat

Meal 4:
6oz chicken - 165 calories, 34.5 g protein, 3.75 fat
6 oz Sweet potato - 155 calories, 36g carbs, 3.75g protein, 0 fat
8 caps Fish, Flaxseed, Borage Oil combo- 80 calories, 8g fat

Totals: 400 calories, 39g protein, 36g carbs, 12g fat

Meal 5:
2 cans of Tuna - 200 calories, 44g protein, 4g fat
2 cups Broccoli - 60 calories, 4g protein, 0 fat, 23g carbs
Mayo 2 tbsp - 90 calories, 8g fat, 4g carbs

Totals: 350 calories, 48g protein, 27g carbs, 12g fat

Meal 6:
6oz chicken - 165 calories, 34.5 g protein, 3.75 fat
2 cups Broccoli - 60 calories, 4g protein, 0 fat, 23g carbs
6 oz Sweet potato - 155 calories, 36g carbs, 3.75g protein, 0 fat

Totals: 380 calories, 42g protein, 59g carbs, 4g fat

Daily totals:

2320 calories, 263g protein, 212g carbs, 64g fat

[AdamGH]

How often do you train abs and what is your training regimen for them?

like 3 times a week.

it was just variations of crunches, but a month ago i started doing something different. It is like a machine but not. You bring your legs and upper body together while you are laying flat on a bench. Maybe you have seen the machine before. I was adding weight and doing multiple sets of 20 reps. After like a month or more of doing, that I notice my stomach seemed to getting larger and larger. The stomach muscles were thickening or getting fuller rather than seeing anything looking ripped. Maybe I should start focusing on doing higher reps instead. I haven't worked my stomach at all since this post. It seems to have helped actually lol.

[fit4ever180]

like 3 times a week.

it was just variations of crunches, but a month ago i started doing something different. It is like a machine but not. You bring your legs and upper body together while you are laying flat on a bench. Maybe you have seen the machine before. I was adding weight and doing multiple sets of 20 reps. After like a month or more of doing, that I notice my stomach seemed to getting larger and larger. The stomach muscles were thickening or getting fuller rather than seeing anything looking ripped. Maybe I should start focusing on doing higher reps instead. I haven't worked my stomach at all since this post. It seems to have helped actually lol.

3 times a week is good starting out... abs are imo, the muscle with the most endurance since they constantly aid in supporting your torso, so you need to train them for endurance, not bulk (ie weights)...
I noticed a thickening in my abs as well when I trained with weights and did not get a whole lot of increased definition, just thickness... Once I switched to nearly all bodyweight resistance for increased reps, I started seeing the difference. I'm pretty sure I've seen a similar machne to what you're describing and I do add that to my workout occasionally just to mix it up, but like I said before, hanging leg raises are the best. They suck when you first start out because it's pretty hard to keep from swinging, but once you figure out the form, there's nothing that beats them imo... I generally don't have a set number of reps that i'll stop at. I just go until failure, so sometimes reps get up towards 100+ depending on the exercise

[AdamGH]

Thanks, I may switch to a very high rep regimen.

also contemplating some clen to help out.

[T_Own]

just a small tidbit, in your diet, your broccoli calories are off. it should be ~100 instead of 60.

and to add something helpful, the leg raises workout really helped for me too. that was the best thing short of wrestling practices for my abs

[novastepp]

what is your training and cardio like?

[BIG TEXAN]

I also would like to see what your taining and cardio looks like....after that myabe try carb cycling or dropping carbs all together for a bit...post up and we can go from there.

[AdamGH]

I have always believed in "go heavy or go home" I always lift at maximum weight. Thats why it says 8 reps at times. The first couple sets are heavy but its the last two I try to squeeze on more weight to push myself. Also remember with my workouts, im not to concerned about gaining size. Just maintaining and cutting. If I do gain muscle, it is just a bonus.


workouts:

#1 chest/triceps/HIIT
#2 shoulders/abs/45 min cardio
#3 back/biceps/HIIT
#4 legs/abs

2 off days- do 45 min cardio
repeat workout schedule before end of week is up, like say if i started workout one on monday, then i would do it again by at least sunday. so im rotating working out bodyparts twice a week every week.

routines:

chest:

flat bb: 4 sets - 8-10 reps
incline db: 4 sets - 8-10 reps
cable crossover: 3 sets - 10 reps
dips: 3 sets - failure reps

triceps:

pulldowns: 4 sets - 10 reps
skullcrushers: 4 sets 10 reps


shoulders:

sitting db presses: 4 sets 8-10 reps
upright rows - 4 sets 8-10 reps
smith machine behind neck presses - 4 sets 10 reps


back:

front lat pulldowns - 4 sets 8-10 reps
seated cable rows(close grip) - 4 sets - 8-10 reps
db rows - 4 sets 8-10 reps

biceps:

seated db curls: 4 sets 8-10 reps
cable single arm curls: i concentrate hard and curl slow - 4 sets 10 reps


legs:

squats: 6 sets 8-10 reps(2 sets are warmups cause i like to go heavy and try to be safe)
db lunges: 4 sets 10 reps(these suck really bad after heavy squats)
leg extensions: 3-4 sets 10 reps

calves:
standing calve machine 4 sets 10 reps




HIIT: 20 minutes treadmill
3.2 walking speed -one minute and half
9.0 running speed - one minute

cardio:
45 min of "hill" setting - level 13- 3.4 walking speed

[novastepp]

I have always believed in "go heavy or go home" I always lift at maximum weight. Thats why it says 8 reps at times. The first couple sets are heavy but its the last two I try to squeeze on more weight to push myself. Also remember with my workouts, im not to concerned about gaining size. Just maintaining and cutting. If I do gain muscle, it is just a bonus.


workouts:

#1 chest/triceps/HIIT
#2 shoulders/abs/45 min cardio
#3 back/biceps/HIIT
#4 legs/abs

2 off days- do 45 min cardio
repeat workout schedule before end of week is up, like say if i started workout one on monday, then i would do it again by at least sunday. so im rotating working out bodyparts twice a week every week.

i would say 12-14 sets a week per major body part is good. and doing you "what i call them ""torch sets afterwards" would be good at 6-9 sets a week

routines:

chest:

flat bb: 4 sets - 8-10 reps
incline db: 4 sets - 8-10 reps
cable crossover: 3 sets - 10 reps
dips: 3 sets - failure reps

i would go four sets of the first two and drop the cables. then next workout, i would do incline db and then do cables and forget the flatbb. just switch those up every week. keep your muscles guessing and keep the sets at 10-15 rep range with a 2 minute rest between sets.

triceps:

pulldowns: 4 sets - 10 reps
skullcrushers: 4 sets 10 reps

i would do one on your first day, and the other on your second day. 4 sets twice a week is more than enough. reps are fine.

shoulders:

sitting db presses: 4 sets 8-10 reps
upright rows - 4 sets 8-10 reps
smith machine behind neck presses - 4 sets 10 reps

personally here, i would do one of these on chest day and another on the next chest day. no need to split them up during a cut. this will also allow for more cardio. rep range here is fine.

back:

front lat pulldowns - 4 sets 8-10 reps
seated cable rows(close grip) - 4 sets - 8-10 reps
db rows - 4 sets 8-10 reps

agai, i would rotate those like you do your chest exercises. swicthing between two every workout. always some sort of pulldown/pullup movement with a row though. 10-15 reps for 4 sets.

biceps:

seated db curls: 4 sets 8-10 reps
cable single arm curls: i concentrate hard and curl slow - 4 sets 10 reps

again, like triceps, just 4 sets each workout with a rep range that staggers (10,6,12,12)

legs:

squats: 6 sets 8-10 reps(2 sets are warmups cause i like to go heavy and try to be safe)
db lunges: 4 sets 10 reps(these suck really bad after heavy squats)
leg extensions: 3-4 sets 10 reps

i would add hamstring curls. same for hammys as for quads.

calves:
standing calve machine 4 sets 10 reps




HIIT: 20 minutes treadmill
3.2 walking speed -one minute and half
9.0 running speed - one minute

this is great cardio, but i wouldn't do it PWO. i would walk quickly at a 3-5degree incline for 20-30 minutes. save HIT for off days and treat them like workouts in regard to meal timing not meal selection. no PWO shake required, just eat afterwards.

cardio:
45 min of "hill" setting - level 13- 3.4 walking speed

ok, no reason you can't be doing this 4-5 mornings a week. this will definitely prime you for fat loss. keeping your carbs high is a major plus when staggering cardio routines. so some days you do this brisk cardio and lift, others you may do this and then HIT cardio later. win/win in my experience. it is also a good idea to have a complete off day on your off days every once in a while if you attack your cardio like this. or at least limit it to a 30minute brisk morning cardio session.

i added some recommendations. just my $.02 i think they should help. diet and cardio will blast that midsection fat much better than any amount of ab exercises you can do. let me know if you have any questions.

[AdamGH]

Thx nova! no questions yet. Im going to refocus and try this again. Ive been slack the past couple weeks cause of feeling like I am getting nowhere. On a side note, Ive gotten stronger in some of my lifts. so thats the only thing thats got me positive at the moment. I think it is becuase I started drinking those sugar free energy drinks before workouts. Im really amped up for workouts. Like I could run around the gym at 100 miles an hour lol.

[AdamGH]

i updated my log/pic


http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=351038

[novastepp]

great work. keep it up!

[AdamGH]

great work. keep it up!

thx man!