Carb Cycling(withdrawls)

**Kstoner6tb** · 12-15-2008, 11:08 AM

I've just began a new diet based on the carb cycling approach. Little background: 6'2 200lbs around 11-12% and train with high (cardio)intensity, boxing oriented workouts. Weights are still in the picture, but take a backseat to bagwork, shadowboxing, sparring, etc. I'm basically trying to keep/gain strength, while shedding all possible fat and get into top shape cardio-wise. To the point, I'm about 2 weeks in on a carb cycling diet, and on the day after my NO carb day, I have ZERO energy. Now, I was under the assumption that fat would provide a sufficient, if not better source of energy to replace the lack of carbs. I've heard this can be just a temporary deal from your body getting used to the lack of carbs, but the lethargic effects are very detrimental to my workouts. So, in your opinions, will the body usually get used to burning fats for sufficient energy, and this carb withdrawl type ordeal pass? Or are carbs absolutely essential for the type of goals I've set? Thanks

**sizerp** · 12-15-2008, 11:12 AM

I would never do NO carb days, especially on training days. If you expect your body to use fat as a reliable energy source, you're talking ketosis. It's takes a few days for your brain to adjust and recognize "oh i need to use lipids for fuel" without being catabolic. Even when in this state, it's recommended you do very light intensity cardio/training.

**Kstoner6tb** · 12-15-2008, 11:31 AM

Thanks Size, that's what I figured. I usually have a couple days where the intensity is at a lower level, and that's where I'll try to throw in the fewest carbs. I'm going to try it out for a couple months, and report back the results. Thanks again

**Kstoner6tb** · 12-19-2008, 07:22 AM

Anybody else have experience with carb cycling, and the lethargic effects produced?

**jackjackson** · 12-19-2008, 09:04 AM

I'm on carb cycling and I do not have those effects.
Post your diet

**Kstoner6tb** · 12-19-2008, 02:27 PM

My zero carb day includes...

Meal 1: 6 eggs over-easy with 2 slices of cheese...onions and jalapenos

Meal 2: 2 Chicken breasts cooked on foreman

Meal 3: 96/4 ground beef cooked stovetop

Meal 4: Whey protein shake

Meal 5: 6 egg whites mixed with can of tuna and pickles

Meal 6: either more chicken or another protein shake.

This is by far the hardest and most draining day. I know I'm still getting a very small amount of carbs on this day. Main differences between this and the lower/unlimited carb days are oatmeal in the morning and brown rice as main source of carbs. Also, whey is substituted for a mass gainer shake. I've always been lean so as of now, the weight gain shakes are still allowing me to cut up with the amount/intensity of cardio. I know I didn't go into details on grams, times, etc. If more details are needed to address the fatigue issue, I'll keep them coming. Thanks

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-19-2008, 02:33 PM

carb cycling requires alot of discilpline...unlike a keto diet where you body will have time to adapt to no carbs and you over come feeling of lethargy etc...with carb cycling this is not the case....most people however have enough in their glycogen stores to not feel the effects you mentioned so dramatically but everyones metabolism is different. Its the lack of adaptation time that makes carb cycilng so effective at creating an anabolic and /or fat burning environment in our body....

**jackjackson** · 12-19-2008, 04:31 PM

I see one big thing missing here, veggies?
Where are they?
Veggies also help keep insulin down, hunger and they have a nice amount of fiber and enzymes.
You should have them at least 5 of your meals

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-19-2008, 04:39 PM

^^^ not if hes incorporating no carb days which was his example i believe....

**jackjackson** · 12-19-2008, 04:56 PM

So your saying no veggies on no carb days? or period?

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-19-2008, 05:01 PM

on no carb day - which is day he posted ....to which u said u saw one thing missing - veggies.... so thats where i was coming from...

**jackjackson** · 12-19-2008, 05:20 PM

IM lost lol

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-19-2008, 05:28 PM

he posted his no carb day diet ...you said u see one thing missing ...veggies... i said no veggies on no carb day.....
you said do i mean no veggies at all or just on no carb day(which confused me because he was posting no carb day diet to which you replied veggies were missing). I said no veggies on no carb day.

**jackjackson** · 12-19-2008, 07:53 PM

I have them daily for the reasons I posted above.
Pre contest and off season also, works fine for me.

**Kstoner6tb** · 12-19-2008, 07:56 PM

Right, I try not to have any veggies on the no carb day(multi-vitamin helps with this). Although I usually have fresh onion and jalapeno in my morning eggs every day. However, on the low/high carb days I mix in the frozen veggies with the ground beef/turkey. True, I don't get 5 servings worth, but on the forementioned 2 days I try to have some V8 fusion before noon(it's got a little sugar I know) I'd have a hard time getting veggies in 5 out of the 6 meals.

**Kstoner6tb** · 12-19-2008, 08:05 PM

Jimmy I'd say I have a very high metabolism and have always been a hard-gainer. As I'm nearing 25 years old, the pounds are now arriving at a (not always welcomed) faster pace. I'm only at the end of the 2nd week of carb cycling, and my waistline is the smallest it's ever been as an adult, and surprisingly I haven't lost any lean mass/strength. I've stayed right around the same bodyweight, but my waistline has shrank dramatically, and I just look alot leaner in general. My body's slowly getting used to the up and down type of diet because I'm beginning to feel better after/during a NO carb day. Appreciate the replies

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-20-2008, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by jackjackson

I have them daily for the reasons I posted above.
Pre contest and off season also, works fine for me.

not saying it wouldnt work ...just saying 5 servings of veggies if u are doing a no carb day is a no no....obviously.... and some people require a no carb day for cycling to be an effective method for them( i sure think its a good idea)...you obviously dont which is cool ....but to say 5 servings of veggies are missing when a guy posts his no carb day diet is a little bit silly right...i mean maybe just an honest mistake or oversight nonetheless bad advice. Its not personal bro ..

Kstoner - glad u r starting to adapt ...as u r finding u can keep mass/strength and burn fat , big benefit of carb cycling. Carb cycling has been very efective for me at various times I also try to align my workouts to best utilize carb intakes if interested I can share that workout /cycling schedule with you ...if not its cool seems as you are doing better re: your concerns. Keep up the good work Bro....

**M302_Imola** · 12-20-2008, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by jackjackson

I see one big thing missing here, veggies?
Where are they?
Veggies also help keep insulin down, hunger and they have a nice amount of fiber and enzymes.
You should have them at least 5 of your meals

I agree with you bro! When I was carb cycling I made sure to have veggies (primarily broc) every meal except pwo and my last meal during my no carb days. The trace amount of carbs they contain aren't that big of a deal. Their advantages are: slow down absorption, filled with fiber, vitamins, and minerals, and keep you full longer, which will help you fight off those evil temptations. It's not that I overly love veggies but I know my body needs them!

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-20-2008, 02:57 PM

^^^ hmmm good imput on what works for you...but then they really arent no carb days are they.....6 meals @ 8 grams carbs is 48 grams carbs/day + incidental carbs u get in primary food sources....no longer even close to no carb(low carb yes but not no carb)....... if u havent tried a true no carb day in your carb cycles i reccomend it....it makes a diff IMO ...if what u guys are doing is working thats cool...but i wouldnt tell a guy to eat 6 meals of veggies on his no carb day ...JMO....

**M302_Imola** · 12-21-2008, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

^^^ hmmm good imput on what works for you...but then they really arent no carb days are they.....6 meals @ 8 grams carbs is 48 grams carbs/day + incidental carbs u get in primary food sources....no longer even close to no carb(low carb yes but not no carb)....... if u havent tried a true no carb day in your carb cycles i reccomend it....it makes a diff IMO ...if what u guys are doing is working thats cool...but i wouldnt tell a guy to eat 6 meals of veggies on his no carb day ...JMO....

dude I'm not trying to argue with you but I think you are reading way to much into this. The carbs from 1/2 cup of vegies per meal is not going to make a great impact on your insulin levels. What do you suggest, eating a protein and fat meal instead of the veggies? I like protein and fat meals but we all know how many cals come with fats, so for those of us who like to keep cals low during our "no carb" days protein and veggies meals are the way to go. If you are not worried about keeping cals low then protein and fat meals are fine. Yeah keeping carbs as low as possible on a "no carb" day is def beneficial but for me so is keeping cals low.

**jackjackson** · 12-21-2008, 11:16 AM

Im not one to argue myself, just speaking from exp and the basics of veggies.
Unless you are doing a truly no carbs day at all, I see no reason to exclude veggies besides PWO and Wakeup.

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-21-2008, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Kstoner6tb

Right, I try not to have any veggies on the no carb day(multi-vitamin helps with this). Although I usually have fresh onion and jalapeno in my morning eggs every day. However, on the low/high carb days I mix in the frozen veggies with the ground beef/turkey. True, I don't get 5 servings worth, but on the forementioned 2 days I try to have some V8 fusion before noon(it's got a little sugar I know) I'd have a hard time getting veggies in 5 out of the 6 meals.

^^ its all good joe - that is exactly what i was referring too ..he is doing a NO carb day .......anyway .....it wasnt about what u guys do or what works for you....thats all good ..its about his diet he's running which obviously has hi carb/lo carb/and no carb days.... thats all ...