fats good for building muscle?

**bradhore** · 02-01-2009, 03:08 AM

a friend told me fat is good for building muscle?? tbh i thought protein and carbs did that!

fat is good for nobody if your cutting unless your bulking right??

**user12345654321** · 02-01-2009, 03:40 AM

fats are essential in building muscle, your friend was right. fats when cutting are great too. u should be cutting out carbs when cutting

**FLAMEHAIREDADONIS** · 02-01-2009, 04:33 AM

Fats essential? Yes but make sure they are the good ones. AAS generally increase LDL compared to HDL blood serum ratio which if combined with high blood pressure can be detrimental to your health. Therefore stick to HDL fat sources if you wish to avoid IHD, vascular scelorosis, etc. Examples of good fat sources are Fatty fish, walnuts, and canola oil all provide *****-3 fatty acids.

**user12345654321** · 02-01-2009, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by FLAMEHAIREDADONIS

Fats essential? Yes but make sure they are the good ones. AAS generally increase LDL compared to HDL blood serum ratio which if combined with high blood pressure can be detrimental to your health. Therefore stick to HDL fat sources if you wish to avoid IHD, vascular scelorosis, etc. Examples of good fat sources are Fatty fish, walnuts, and canola oil all provide *****-3 fatty acids.

i thought that was obvious. u want a 1:1 ratio of *****3/*****6

**novastepp** · 02-01-2009, 01:22 PM

everyone has a different approach in regard to fat consumption. Nark and myself have a thread centered around that idea of "many" carbs during any body composition phase (bulking, cutting, recomposition).

fats have their place, and yes, you can find healthy sources.

there are also threads centered around keto-style diets in which members have had great success cutting with pro/fat diets.

it all boils down to what keeps you feeling satiated, feeling energetic, and continually moving you in the direction you want to move.
for someone to say that a certain macro is "wrong" is giving you bad advice.

**Deltasaurus** · 02-01-2009, 02:11 PM

^^^ i though u guys u were for Minimal fat not carbs????

**FallenWyvern** · 02-01-2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by A2thej2008

^^^ i though u guys u were for Minimal fat not carbs????

Yeah I think he typo.

**novastepp** · 02-01-2009, 10:00 PM

fixed it, definitely a typoskie.

**big daddy k de** · 02-01-2009, 10:31 PM

look into the palumbo diet ... its all i use and i have seen awesome results

**novastepp** · 02-01-2009, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by big daddy k de

look into the palumbo diet ... its all i use and i have seen awesome results

do you use the palumbo diet when bulking? and what are "awesome" results?

**bradhore** · 02-02-2009, 11:18 AM

the palumbo diet is:

The premise of the diet is high protein (about 1- 1 1/2 gram per pound), moderate fat (about 1/2 g per lb) and low low carbs (no direct sources of carbs). During this diet, the brain goes into ketosis (it uses ketone bodies for energy-- fats) and thus the energy requirements by the body can almost all be supplied by fats (which you'll be taking in plenty of). The only activity that uses carbs will be the weight workout which may use 40grams per workout. You will get these 40g indirectly through the foods you'll be eating. As a backup, the cheat meal you'll be having once per week will provide a storehouse of glycogen (glucose) in case of emergency. So, you see, very little gluconeogenesis in the liver will be occurring. If we keep cortisol low (by
restricting STIMULANTS) we'll ensure that muscle is spared!

HAVE YOUR CHEAT MEAL ON THE SAME DAY EVERY WEEK, last meal of the
day so you dont cheat again.

Fiber helps burn fat! Everyone should take fiber 2x per day. Fiber actually helps increase the absorption of calcium.
When following my diet plan (which includes getting your brain into ketosis), there can be NO starchy carbs eaten!

For a 200lb man:

MEAL #1
5 whole eggs (make sure to buy *****-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good *****-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the *****-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6
SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (*****-3) eggs and 4 extra whites

For a 250lb+ man:
Meal 1 6 whole *****-3 eggs
Meal 2 8oz chicken with 1/2 cup raw almonds
Meal 3 50g whey with 2 tablespoons all natural peanutbutter
Meal 4 8oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil
Meal 5 50 g whey with 2 tablespoon PB
Meal 6 6 whole eggs

Remember, it takes 3-4 days to get into a strong ketosis where your brain is using ketone bodies (fats), instead of carbs, for energy. Be patient.

Many times I'll switch to an alternatiing diet where one day it will be protein/fat......then another protein/vegetables (very little fat). The great thing about the body and fat is that ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS can be stored in the muscle for several days, up to 2 weeks......therefore, once an adequate storehouse of Essential Fats are built up, the body can be "tortured" a little and it still won't give up muscle (that's assuming you're still taking in adequate protein. Protein can't be stored).

1oz almonds equals 6g carbs (2 of those grams are fiber) and 2oz equals 12g of carbs.

With the beef meal (any fatty protein meal), you should have the green salad with 1 tablespoon of Olive or Mac oil INSTEAD of the nuts. Only eat the nuts with the LEAN PROTEIN MEAL (chicken, turkey, lean fish)

The best fat sources come from the essential fatty acids-- *****-6 and *****-3's. Most of us get plenty of *****-6s from cooking oils, ect..........however the *****-3's are harder to get. I recommend WHOLE *****-3 EGGS, FaTTY FISHS like SALMON and SWORDFISH and TUNA and MACKEREL, ALMONDS and WALNUTS have some *****-3's (as well as *****-6s). ANother great fat source is MONOUNSATURATES such as EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL and MACADAMIA NUT OIL.....they aren't essential but they are great for the metabolism (great source of energy) and they are extremely good for your heart.

You're not getting any indirect sources of carbs (just from the 1 spoonful of PB.... you may want to have at least one 1/3cup nuts meal. Remember, Olive or Macadamia nut oil is predominantly a MONOUNSATURATED FAT (good for the heart, but not essential)........ the nuts, and fish oil have the essential fats in them. Also, with regard to FLAX SEED OIL, the *****-3 Fatty Acids found in them (alpha-linolenic acid) has a very poor conversion to DHA and EPA (Essential *****-3 intermediates) in the HUMAN........therefore, you're much better off taking in FISH OILS (that already contain DHA/EPA) than FLAX SEED OIL.

Once fat loss slows, I always increase cardio first, then I increase the amount of fat burners (Clenbuterol , Cytomel , lipolyze).........After those other methods are exhausted, only then, do I play with the diet.

Always eat BEFORE lifting........never BETWEEN lifting and cardio.
Artificial Sweetners:
The artificial sweetener itself (eg. aspartame, sucralose) wont cause a problem. It's what some companies complex it with. For example, EQUAL and SPLENDA combine their aspartame and sucrolose with 1g of maltodextrin........whereas, in diet drinks, they don't do that. So, diet drinks are okay, SPLENDA and EQUAL must be used in moderation (STEVIA BALANCE is fine though since they use inulin fiber instead of maltodextrin

Forget using:
-MCT's are a waste when you're dieting. If you're gonna use FATS for an energy source, they might as well serve a function in the body. MCTs are useless. They can only serve as a source of energy!
-Arginine is not going to do anything. It will DO something; just not dramatic.

Cardio:
CARDIO should be performed at a low intensity (under 120bpm heartrate). This will ensure that you use FAT as a fuelsource since as your heartrate increase, carbohydrates begin to become the preferred fuel of choice for the body. When on a low carb diet, you're body will break down muscle and turn that into carbs. Remember, Fat CANNOT be changed into carbs. Therefore, for bodybuilding, the rule of cardio should be LONG DURATION, LOW INTENSITY

never do less than 20 min per session

The BOTTOM LINE is that low intensity cardio (while you might need more of it) ensures that fat is utilized and muscle is spared (especially while on my high protein/moderate fat/low carb diety).

Do you feel the treadmill is better for cardio, or is the bike(stationary or rebent) just as good? As long as the intensity is LOW, it doesn't matter which piece of equipment you use

Q&A:
Q: Is gluconeogenesis inevitable in your diet?
Dave Palumbo: NO

Q: If so do I need to consume more than 1.5 grams of protein per lb of LBM so as not to lose muscle?
Dave Palumbo: The fat spares the protein....when the brain is in ketosis, the carbohydrate requirements are very very low.

Q: How much (percentage) of my protein intake would be turned into glucose (gluconeogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: Very little (maybe 10%)

Q: What do you think of submersion in cold water as a means of burning bodyfat (thermogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: HOCUS POKUS!

Q: How about drinking lots of cold water (I think this was even suggested by Elligton Darden) to help lose bodyfat?
Dave Palumbo: RIDICULOUS

Q: Do you think drinking lots of Green Tea is beneficial to fat loss?
Dave Palumbo: Somewhat helpful.

Q: How much is the ideal dosage of ***** 3 for a 220 lb. individual ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to take in about 9g per day

Q: How many Tbs of peanut butter could I have instead of 1/2 cup of cashewnuts?
Dave Palumbo: 2 tablespoons, two tablespoons of Peanut Butter contains 190 calories and 16 grams of fat (so 1.5 tablespoon equals about 12 grams fat) ...whereas......... 2oz (1/3 cup) almonds (about 40 almonds) = 12g fat

Q: I want to add that if I cant find the ***** eggs here locally. Can I use international egg whites and just take an ***** supplement?
Dave Palumbo: You can get away with 5 whole eggs (regular ones) once a day........not a big deal. You'll be burning up all that fat anyway.

Q: Whats the max cups # of coffee ( no sugar ) can consume on Dave's diet ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to limit to 2 cups per day.......I realize that towards the end of the diet you may need more to help you get through the day.

Q: If you cook tilapia in macadamon nut oil?do you coun't the oil as your fat for that meal! Depends how much you use.
Dave Palumbo: If you just grease the pan with it, no!

Q: what is the protein,carb and fat ratio for offseason
Dave Palumbo: 50% Protein, 25% fat, 25% carbs

Q: and the ratio for contest prep.
Dave Palumbo:60% protein, 30% fat, 10% carbs

**bradhore** · 02-02-2009, 11:19 AM

dont think i would be able to cope wit manual work ALL day, would need the carbs for energy to keep me going! i also dont think there is enough protein or kcals in the palumbo diet.

**bradhore** · 02-02-2009, 11:20 AM

what could i use similar to 'all natural peanut butter' ??

**user12345654321** · 02-02-2009, 11:27 AM

u can use ground nuts instead of peanut butter. once u've been on it for a few days ur energy levels will be fine without carbs. with regards to ur feelings about 'not enough cals', just ajust the amounts to meet ur requirements

**novastepp** · 02-02-2009, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by bradhore

dont think i would be able to cope wit manual work ALL day, would need the carbs for energy to keep me going! i also dont think there is enough protein or kcals in the palumbo diet.

you can always adjust the kcal amounts and use different requirements based on your lean body mass needs.

and you would be surprised how any meal can fuel you as long as you are feeding it enough on a regular basis. if you think this approach will work, you should at least give it a shot.

**bradhore** · 02-03-2009, 04:44 AM

what are the best type of nuts with least sat fat??

do u think its possible to make lean gains also whilse cutting bodyfat on this diet??

**fit4ever180** · 02-03-2009, 01:40 PM

My preference is almonds and yes you can cut down and make gains if your diet is dialed in... This is true of any diet though imo...

**novastepp** · 02-03-2009, 06:17 PM

I have (during a 2-3 month phase) been able to increase strength and maintain size, while leaning up (dropping noticeable body fat) your diet has to be stone cold and your workouts even more so.

**novastepp** · 02-03-2009, 06:18 PM

let me also add that i was also doing morning cardio. i don't think my fat loss would have been noticeable if i had not done routine cardio during that time, as well.

**bradhore** · 02-04-2009, 09:35 AM

makes no difference doing morning cardio i dont think.

they call it fasted cardio on an empty stomach right?

i think your fat loss would be noticeable regardless of when u did you cardio

**novastepp** · 02-04-2009, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by bradhore

makes no difference doing morning cardio i dont think.

they call it fasted cardio on an empty stomach right?

i think your fat loss would be noticeable regardless of when u did you cardio

i was correlating to my previous post. in that it is possible to lean out and gain strength and corresponding size gains, however minimal.