Jamyjamjr and Eatrainrest PLEASE HELP

[JayJay001]

I would like to use this forum to improve my diet and my workout. After reading many posts on this forum I noticed that the recommendations of Jamyjamjr and Eatrainrest make the most sense and are very respected.

Jamyjamjr and Eatrainrest please critique my diet and my workout.


My stats:
Age: 26
Height: 6 ft
Weight: 198 lb
BF: around 15%
BMR: 1,900
Based on the text below, please advice me on the activity multiplier.

My work out:
Monday: chest and triceps
Tuesday: shoulders and biceps
Wednesday: Back and calf
Tuesday: legs
Friday: Monday’s workout

I rotate the work out every week.
From Monday till Friday I run for hour. No eating before and keeping HR low (max 65 - 70%)
Every day I do abs for 20 – 30 minutes.
For each body part I do 4 exercises of 4 sets (10-8-6-8) with increased weights after each set. I do the last set till total failure. For back I do 5 sets.

Saturday: mountain biking (5 – 8 hours trips) with low and high intensity
Sunday: day off

Diet:
(NF: Energy - kjl, Protein - g, Carbs - g, Fat - g)


6:00 – before running
Water with multivitamin

RUNNING

8:00
Eggs: 7 whites, 3 yolk, 2 slides of bread
NF: 515, 44, 30, 38

9:30
100g Oats and milk
NF: 1484, 6, 31, 3.1

10:00
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5

11:00
Meal Replacement Powder
996, 53, 20, 1

GYM: abs

13:30
Chicken breast, brown rice, vegetable
NF: 655, 36, 12, 6

15:00
Chicken breast, brown rice, vegetable
NF: 655, 36, 12, 6

17:00
Meal Replacement Powder
996, 53, 20, 1

GYM

19:30
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5

20:30
Chicken breast, vegetable
NF: 186, 35, 0, 5

23:00
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5

BED

02:00
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5

Note: I often exchange the chicken breast for tuna.

Summary:
Energy: 2,300 kcal, Protein: 390 g, 111 g Carbs, 78 g Fat

I am low on kcal, please advice me what to do.


Note: I know that in my diet there are lots of shakes but it is due to time issues. I work in office and go for many meetings so do not have enough time to eat proper food.

Cycle:
Bulking
10 weeks deca
12 weeks omnadren
Last 5 weeks: winny
During cycle: Arimidex (now .25 EOD)
18 days after last shot PCT: Nolva and Clomid

Looking towards to your reply.

Thank you.

[eatrainrest]

I would like to use this forum to improve my diet and my workout. After reading many posts on this forum I noticed that the recommendations of Jamyjamjr and Eatrainrest make the most sense and are very respected.

thanks for the compliments, although there are others on the board i learned from as well, including jammy ! lol
Jamyjamjr and Eatrainrest please critique my diet and my workout.


My stats:
Age: 26
Height: 6 ft
Weight: 198 lb
BF: around 15%
BMR: 1,900
Based on the text below, please advice me on the activity multiplier.

My work out:
Monday: chest and triceps
Tuesday: shoulders and biceps
Wednesday: Back and calf
Tuesday: legs
Friday: Monday’s workout
im really not a fan of this workout at all
.. i suggest you check out these links in order
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=384553 CARDIO AND HR
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=384006 INTRO TO EXERCISE
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=385368 FREE TRAINING ADVICE


I rotate the work out every week.
From Monday till Friday I run for hour. No eating before and keeping HR low (max 65 - 70%)
Every day I do abs for 20 – 30 minutes.NO, THEY NEED REST TRY 2-3X PER WEEK, THAT WOULD BE OVERTRAINING
For each body part I do 4 exercises of 4 sets (10-8-6-8) with increased weights after each set. I do the last set till total failure. For back I do 5 sets.id say thats too many sets especially for smalle rmuscle groups

Saturday: mountain biking (5 – 8 hours trips) with low and high intensity
Sunday: day off

Diet:
(NF: Energy - kjl, Protein - g, Carbs - g, Fat - g)


6:00 – before running
Water with multivitamin
this will inhibit your gains significantly performing anaerboic cardio on an empty stomach..muscle gain of course
RUNNING

8:00
Eggs: 7 whites, 3 yolk, 2 slides of bread
NF: 515, 44, 30, 38
ezekil bread woudl be ideal, although i think minues 3 yolk and sub with 10 egg whites and 1-1.5 cup oats

9:30
100g Oats and milk
NF: 1484, 6, 31, 3.1
no milk as its loaded wtih simple sugars, etc. and no protein here! we need complex carb lliek ezekiel bread would do with some Grilled chicken and fibrous carb, brocolli example

10:00
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5
only for PWO should this be consumed, sub with lean fish/meat and add fibrous carb/ and complex if its pre workout

11:00
Meal Replacement Powder
996, 53, 20, 1

this is where you will need a complex carb for prolonged energy so a complex carb is necessary here with FOOD protein
GYM: abs
[Bnot everyday remember EVERY muscle needs at least 24 hours rest[/B]
13:30
Chicken breast, brown rice, vegetable
NF: 655, 36, 12, 6
i like this, that veggie should be leafy green as well but we still need proportions

15:00
Chicken breast, brown rice, vegetable
NF: 655, 36, 12, 6
repeattttt.. try something not complex and stick to leafy greens, fish/meat source, EFA source

17:00
Meal Replacement Powder
996, 53, 20, 1
no sir

GYM

19:30
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5
you go to the gym twice? once just to do abs? no, finish up 1 workout with abs session 2-3x weekly, and the protein shake has 912 calories???should be 40g whey and 40-60g carbs IMMEDIATELY AFTER, or within 30 minutes of after low intensity cardio training

20:30
Chicken breast, vegetable
NF: 186, 35, 0, 5

no

23:00
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5
no

BED

02:00
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5
no

Note: I often exchange the chicken breast for tuna.

Summary:
Energy: 2,300 kcal, Protein: 390 g, 111 g Carbs, 78 g Fat

I am low on kcal, please advice me what to do.


Note: I know that in my diet there are lots of shakes but it is due to time issues. I work in office and go for many meetings so do not have enough time to eat proper food.

is it possible to prepackage and warm up your food? if it is possible at all to prepack it will make all the difference
Cycle:
Bulking
10 weeks deca
12 weeks omnadren
Last 5 weeks: winny
During cycle: Arimidex (now .25 EOD)
18 days after last shot PCT: Nolva and Clomid

Looking towards to your reply.

Thank you.

there are alot of meals and i got thrown off but the workouts deff need help. also stick to this kind of format 40/40/20% diet 20 being fats. you want startchy complex carbs PRE WORKOUT, and then IMMEDIATE pwo you want whey with a semi simple carb like plain bagel, waxy maize startch etc. than 1.5 hours after your INITIAL PWO NUTRITION, you want to have liek 1 cup brown rice with veggie and lean protein as a REFEED PWO MEAL. every meal after this includes no complex carbs, just leafy greens and EFA's and of course lean protein sources. hope it helps

[jamyjamjr]

I would like to use this forum to improve my diet and my workout. After reading many posts on this forum I noticed that the recommendations of Jamyjamjr and Eatrainrest make the most sense and are very respected.
thx bud
Jamyjamjr and Eatrainrest please critique my diet and my workout.


My stats:
Age: 26
Height: 6 ft
Weight: 198 lb
BF: around 15% care to post a pic??? we wanna be accurate...
BMR: 1,900
Based on the text below, please advice me on the activity multiplier.

My work out:
Monday: chest and triceps
Tuesday: shoulders and biceps
Wednesday: Back and calf
Tuesday: legs
Friday: Monday’s workout
trash this imo.. do a 5 day split one muscle group a day... ie..

chest
back
shoulders
arms
legs

keep your arms and legs day close to 24 sets and the rest close to 16, no more
I rotate the work out every week.
From Monday till Friday I run for hour. No eating before and keeping HR low (max 65 - 70%) good
Every day I do abs for 20 – 30 minutes. good
For each body part I do 4 exercises of 4 sets (10-8-6-8) with increased weights after each set. I do the last set till total failure. For back I do 5 sets.
with ur current split, that's over training imo...
Saturday: mountain biking (5 – 8 hours trips) with low and high intensity
Sunday: day off
multiply by 1.65
Diet:
(NF: Energy - kjl, Protein - g, Carbs - g, Fat - g)


6:00 – before running
Water with multivitamin

RUNNING

8:00
Eggs: 7 whites, 3 yolk, 2 slides of bread what kinda bread???
NF: 515, 44, 30, 38

9:30
100g Oats and milk what kinda milk???
NF: 1484, 6, 31, 3.1

10:00
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5 your macros look off here.. 912 kcal???

11:00
Meal Replacement Powder is this pwo?? eat real food bro... again, your calories in your macros dont make sense.. i would just do 6oz of a lean meat and some complex carbs
996, 53, 20, 1 macros seem off

GYM: abs

13:30
Chicken breast, brown rice, vegetable
NF: 655, 36, 12, 6 macros seem off
do white rice.. this is pwo.. u need to replenish glycogen stores
15:00
Chicken breast, brown rice, vegetable
NF: 655, 36, 12, 6 macros seem off
good
17:00
Meal Replacement Powder
996, 53, 20, 1
again.. macros seem off, omit for real food
GYM

19:30
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5
macros are off for sure bro... why would you have a protien shake here??? if it isn't pwo.. omit for real food.. do a pro/fat meal... something like 6oz of turkey, fish, chicken with half an avocado should do u right
20:30
Chicken breast, vegetable
NF: 186, 35, 0, 5
okay, add a efa like avocado, or use a stir fry with olive oil..
23:00
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5
unless this is a casien shake, omit for a lean beef... i personaly love london broil, again, your macros are off
BED

02:00
Protein shake
NF: 912, 40, 4, 5
unless this is a casien shake, omit for a lean beef... i personaly love london broil, again, your macros are off
Note: I often exchange the chicken breast for tuna.

Summary:
Energy: 2,300 kcal, Protein: 390 g, 111 g Carbs, 78 g Fat

I am low on kcal, please advice me what to do.


Note: I know that in my diet there are lots of shakes but it is due to time issues. I work in office and go for many meetings so do not have enough time to eat proper food.
that's cause for problems... you should be limiting yourself to 2 shakes max a day... and that's pwo only
Cycle:
Bulking
10 weeks deca
12 weeks omnadren
Last 5 weeks: winny
During cycle: Arimidex (now .25 EOD)
18 days after last shot PCT: Nolva and Clomid
where the hell is your test?????????????
Looking towards to your reply.

Thank you.

my comments in bold.. check your macros bro.. if you know this;
1g protien 4cal
1g carbs 4cal
1g fat 9cal

u can see, based upon the macros u gave me, that your calories for many of your meals are wrong.. fix the issue.. get your tdee calculated.. i told u to go by 1.65 imo...

i'll be waiting..

[jamyjamjr]

eat, seems like alotta his macros are off bro..

[eatrainrest]

eat, seems like alotta his macros are off bro..

i agree, i wasnt paying too much attention to the kcals until i saw protein shake at 912 and said thats definately off, given the macros supplied. also, reading your post the omnadren is replica of sust in regards to test if thats what you were thinking

[jamyjamjr]

ohhh i c... lol.. good glad he has something in there...

eat, ill be on vacation over the weekend btw.. dunno if ill have an internet connection...

to the op.. what are the frequency of your shots gonna be??

[eatrainrest]

ohhh i c... lol.. good glad he has something in there...

eat, ill be on vacation over the weekend btw.. dunno if ill have an internet connection...

to the op.. what are the frequency of your shots gonna be??

surely NOT ed/eod as we all recommend... but i will be keeping up on the forums, next weekend i will be on vaca, im sure we'll be missed lol.. and congrats on your 3k+ posts im likin the quote under the avi lmao

[jamyjamjr]

yea, i was lookin forward to customizing it man... im just glad i didn't go whoring in the ar lounge like most do.. those are at least 95% quality posts.. look at me, im making myself proud.. lmao... ill take care of the forum next weekend.. u keep me covered this weekend..

[JayJay001]

Thank you both for replies.

I will change the diet and workout accrodingly.

Workout:

I used to do one body part a day but then after consulation with my friend who is old school bodybuilder, I change me workout. I will cahnge it back (as I liked it more)

I only have couple questions:
1. Abs
Do you tihink that doing abs 5 times a week is too much? One trainier in my gym told me that abs recover very very fast and by doing them 5 times a week I can not overwork them. Is that wrong statement?

2. Morning Cardio
By morning Cardio, do I inhibit muscle gains? Despite the fast that I am in bulking cycle, I don't want to gain fat. This is the reason why I do cardio every morning. What should be the right frequency of monning cardio?

3. Protein shakes
In general, why are protein shakes/meal replacement powders bad?

In regards to my macros. They are right. As I am from continental Europe, I used kJ and not Kcal. (1 Kcal = 4.195kJ) Below is my diet with Kcal. Sorry for confusion.

Energy - kcal, Protein - g, Carbs - g, Fat - g)

6:00 – before running
Water with multivitamin

RUNNING

8:00
Eggs: 7 whites, 3 yolk, 2 slides of bread
NF: 123, 44, 30, 38

9:30
100g Oats and milk
NF: 354, 6, 31, 3.1

10:00
Protein shake
NF: 217, 40, 4, 5

11:00
Meal Replacement Powder
237, 53, 20, 1

GYM: abs

13:30
Chicken breast, brown rice, vegetable
NF: 156, 36, 12, 6

15:00
Chicken breast, brown rice, vegetable
NF: 156, 36, 12, 6

17:00
Meal Replacement Powder
237, 53, 20, 1

GYM

19:30
Protein shake
NF: 217, 40, 4, 5

20:30
Chicken breast, vegetable
NF: 36, 35, 0, 5

23:00
Protein shake
NF: 217, 40, 4, 5

BED

02:00
Protein shake
NF: 217, 40, 4, 5

Should I eat the same amounts in my training and nontraining days?

Jamyjamjr, I do my omnadren shots EOD. I am so far in my 6 week and latelly I can see good changes. Hopefully it will continue that way.

What can I do in order to keep gains after the cycle? Beside well prepared PCT and good diet? Will creatine help?

Thanks.

[alpmaster]

Abs do not heal any faster than any muscle. I would train them 3 times a week, like monday, wednesday, and friday. They should be trained 3 times a week with the rep range in the 15-25 area. Remember, you don't want the ab muscles to grow (unless you're trying to be a powerlifter, olympic lifter, etc.), as they will look blocky and gross. You just need to strengthen the muscle a bit and establish the motor unit recruitment to be able to give them a nice shape when flexed. However, the way your abs look (and how good they look) will be all up to genetics and bodyfat level.

[eatrainrest]

abs do heal faster than other muslce groups but still need their rest

[alpmaster]

abs do heal faster than other muslce groups but still need their rest

They may heal faster because they are a smaller muscle group, in the same way that a bicep will heal faster than a pectoral simply because it is smaller. However, I have never seen proof of abdominal muscles being some super muscle that heals faster than any other muscle. Please support your claim with documented proof (a reliable and valid study), if it is true, I'd love to add that to my knowledge.

[Cheylayna1978]

Documented proof, LMFAO.

I didn't know it was that serious, hahah, it sounded super-funny the way you went so far as to say "please", LMFAO.........can't stop laughing......wheeeeee heeeee..........k, down 2 biz!

From my real world experience, I can tell you that even me as a female fitness fanatic, finds that I can train my abs far more frequently than any other muscle on my body. Why is this? I am guessing because of my own recovery ability that differs among all, the fact that abdominal muscles are always "working" when we sneeze, cough, sit up, turn over in bed, get out of bed, and basically any movement in day to day life let alone direct training. I feel that my abs being a form of "support" for my back and core, that they are used to a lot of stimulation and on a constant basis. Therefore, when worked intensely in a direct manner they tend to get sore and much more than day to day stimulation, however I noticed that they also healed far quicker than any other body part
that I train/exhaust.

Studies don't account for differences in nutrition amongst each person, genetics, the actual stimulation both duration and intensity wise, etc. Studies are only good for those instances where there are basically NO VARIABLES, but in this instance it's a non-sequitor. Real world experience is far more valuable in this instance, not to mention in the majority of practices that are questioned.

I never believed there to be "ONE END-ALL" to any particular practice no matter what the actual endeavor may be. I'm a firm believer in personal practice to find out where you fall in the big scheme of things. As well, not all "studies" are credible, not in the least bit, and they are also far too rigid to adapt to the reality of variation and difference as they pertain to individuals.

'Layna

[eatrainrest]

They may heal faster because they are a smaller muscle group, in the same way that a bicep will heal faster than a pectoral simply because it is smaller. However, I have never seen proof of abdominal muscles being some super muscle that heals faster than any other muscle. Please support your claim with documented proof (a reliable and valid study), if it is true, I'd love to add that to my knowledge.

they heal faster i dont have a study its what i learned

[eatrainrest]

Documented proof, LMFAO.

I didn't know it was that serious, hahah, it sounded super-funny the way you went so far as to say "please", LMFAO.........can't stop laughing......wheeeeee heeeee..........k, down 2 biz!

From my real world experience, I can tell you that even me as a female fitness fanatic, finds that I can train my abs far more frequently than any other muscle on my body. Why is this? I am guessing because of my own recovery ability that differs among all, the fact that abdominal muscles are always "working" when we sneeze, cough, sit up, turn over in bed, get out of bed, and basically any movement in day to day life let alone direct training. I feel that my abs being a form of "support" for my back and core, that they are used to a lot of stimulation and on a constant basis. Therefore, when worked intensely in a direct manner they tend to get sore and much more than day to day stimulation, however I noticed that they also healed far quicker than any other body part
that I train/exhaust.

Studies don't account for differences in nutrition amongst each person, genetics, the actual stimulation both duration and intensity wise, etc. Studies are only good for those instances where there are basically NO VARIABLES, but in this instance it's a non-sequitor. Real world experience is far more valuable in this instance, not to mention in the majority of practices that are questioned.

I never believed there to be "ONE END-ALL" to any particular practice no matter what the actual endeavor may be. I'm a firm believer in personal practice to find out where you fall in the big scheme of things. As well, not all "studies" are credible, not in the least bit, and they are also far too rigid to adapt to the reality of variation and difference as they pertain to individuals.

'Layna

agreed

[alpmaster]

It's what you learned? Ok, learned from where? Let me teach you something, the earth is flat, someone told me so. I don't need proof, I mean, I just look outside and the ground is flat.

[eatrainrest]

It's what you learned? Ok, learned from where? Let me teach you something, the earth is flat, someone told me so. I don't need proof, I mean, I just look outside and the ground is flat.

yea sure, im nationally recognized as a personal trainer, so i would therefore believe my certifying agency has some credibility behind it

[eatrainrest]

It's what you learned? Ok, learned from where? Let me teach you something, the earth is flat, someone told me so. I don't need proof, I mean, I just look outside and the ground is flat.

what are your certifications may i ask?

[jamyjamjr]

It's what you learned? Ok, learned from where? Let me teach you something, the earth is flat, someone told me so. I don't need proof, I mean, I just look outside and the ground is flat.

lmao... u got something to prove here bud?????

eat is right.. they do heal faster.. you can do abs 5days a week and give it two days off.. i personaly do it four days a week myself....

that's a bit of a flaming response bro... chillax.. we're here to help people out, not attack each other....

[Phate]

It's what you learned? Ok, learned from where? Let me teach you something, the earth is flat, someone told me so. I don't need proof, I mean, I just look outside and the ground is flat.

yea sure, im nationally recognized as a personal trainer, so i would therefore believe my certifying agency has some credibility behind it

enough guys, create a thread in the lounge if you want to argue please

what are your certifications may i ask?

i personally don't have any, though i'm going to get some because you have to be "certified" to train at my gym, whatever certifired means, thanks for asking

lmao... u got something to prove here bud?????

eat is right.. they do heal faster.. you can do abs 5days a week and give it two days off.. i personaly do it four days a week myself....

that's a bit of a flaming response bro... chillax.. we're here to help people out, not attack each other....

agreed^^^ love the custom title btw

[jamyjamjr]

yea... i like it too.. it think it makes a point.. thx phate

[alpmaster]

Ok, I'll stop here. Because I don't have a 3 day certification so that I can train at a gym. I do however have a 2-Year Exercise Science degree from UCONN and have had some of the best names in the field as my professors. But hah, what was I thinking, I'm no personal trainer.

[jamyjamjr]

^^^ there is no one way of working out and dieting.. u have to be senstive to that...

[eatrainrest]

Ok, I'll stop here. Because I don't have a 3 day certification so that I can train at a gym. I do however have a 2-Year Exercise Science degree from UCONN and have had some of the best names in the field as my professors. But hah, what was I thinking, I'm no personal trainer.

with your 2 year degree, you still cant train anybody

[eatrainrest]

enough guys, create a thread in the lounge if you want to argue please



i personally don't have any, though i'm going to get some because you have to be "certified" to train at my gym, whatever certifired means, thanks for asking

who asked? lol and yea im done hijacking, here to help the OP now


agreed^^^ love the custom title btw

boldddddd

[Cheylayna1978]

I do however have a 2-Year Exercise Science degree from UCONN

Please support your claim with documented proof.



'Layna

[Cheylayna1978]

agreed

Wow, I'm flattered, that has to be a FIRST chico!



'Layna

[eatrainrest]

Wow, I'm flattered, that has to be a FIRST chico!

:wink:

'Layna

yes i know i was actually kind of excited to agree with you on something haha

[Cheylayna1978]

LOL @ you being excited!

All good, tha' past is tha' past.

'Layna

[jamyjamjr]

good to see u two kiss and make up kids...

[jamyjamjr]

with your 2 year degree, you still cant train anybody

eat.. seriously bro.. that's enough dude... i wont have flaming in the diet section... kick back the both of you

[C_Bino]

Well I dont care who posts what in any forum. I dont side with "friends," I just like to see solid advice.

And I will tell you all one thing. Abs DO NOT have the ability to heal faster than other muscle groups. Your musculature is at work around the clock, thats why we have muscles, not for weight lifting...for movement. So whoever said abs are used more so they can take more and heal faster... ABSOLUTELY FALSE. You use all of your muscles, even if not to the same mechanical degree, than for proprioception, which still makes it active and required by the body.

I guarantee any of you if you trained abs with higher weight and HIT style same as you trained your other muscles you would get the same fibre damage. Sure if you do situps and leg raises they may heal fast...than you can conversely say for chest if you just do pushups IT too will heal faster.

Its all about muscle fibre recruitment and overloading the muscle...most people dont do this with abs.


And by they way, I have more degrees than all of you LMAO.

[Cheylayna1978]

I guess this is a case of everyone agreeing to disagree.

Best advice/course of action is to stick to what works for YOU as an individual, that's what I do and it works impeccably. So, train abs with whatever method is most effective for YOU. For me that's what I do as outlined above.

'Layna

[jamyjamjr]

Well I dont care who posts what in any forum. I dont side with "friends," I just like to see solid advice.

And I will tell you all one thing. Abs DO NOT have the ability to heal faster than other muscle groups. Your musculature is at work around the clock, thats why we have muscles, not for weight lifting...for movement. So whoever said abs are used more so they can take more and heal faster... ABSOLUTELY FALSE. You use all of your muscles, even if not to the same mechanical degree, than for proprioception, which still makes it active and required by the body.

I guarantee any of you if you trained abs with higher weight and HIT style same as you trained your other muscles you would get the same fibre damage. Sure if you do situps and leg raises they may heal fast...than you can conversely say for chest if you just do pushups IT too will heal faster.

Its all about muscle fibre recruitment and overloading the muscle...most people dont do this with abs.


And by they way, I have more degrees than all of you LMAO.

i think the miscommunication lies in the fact that it's soo damn hard to rip the muscle fiber in your abs cuz you use your abs soo much...j

if that weren't the case, why would we be doing abs 3 times a week?? u would work it out hard once a week like everything else in a five day split...

ponder......

[Phate]

edit

[C_Bino]

i think the miscommunication lies in the fact that it's soo damn hard to rip the muscle fiber in your abs cuz you use your abs soo much...j

if that weren't the case, why would we be doing abs 3 times a week?? u would work it out hard once a week like everything else in a five day split...

ponder......

That's precisely what I do. Once a week on back day, full ab workout with weights.

[alpmaster]

I guess this is a case of everyone agreeing to disagree.

Best advice/course of action is to stick to what works for YOU as an individual, that's what I do and it works impeccably. So, train abs with whatever method is most effective for YOU. For me that's what I do as outlined above.

'Layna

Well, there's people who understand exercise physiology and anatomy and those who don't. But sure, do whatever (you think) is working for you.

[Cheylayna1978]

Always have, always will.

It leads to being walking/living proof of beliefs held within.

Tootles,
'Layna

[jamyjamjr]

awwwww.....

that's better guys... group hug...hahaha

[eatrainrest]

group hug.. group hugg...