peanut butter

**C_Bino** · 08-16-2009, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Undercover

Timing matters:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

What in the name of God's green Earth does that have even the SLIGHTEST bit to do with what I asked you?

I asked how 50g carbs from dextrose was better than 50g carbs from sweet potato PWO.

You put up 2 studies:

1 states that you can gain more muscle taking amino acids PWO rather than in the morning and the other states that people gained more muscle using protein plus carbs after workout as opposed to just carbohydrates alone.

So I gather one of two things from this...

You either did not read at all what I wrote.

or

You just have absolutely no clue what you`re talking about.

**collar** · 08-17-2009, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

What in the name of God's green Earth does that have even the SLIGHTEST bit to do with what I asked you?

I asked how 50g carbs from dextrose was better than 50g carbs from sweet potato PWO.

You put up 2 studies:

1 states that you can gain more muscle taking amino acids PWO rather than in the morning and the other states that people gained more muscle using protein plus carbs after workout as opposed to just carbohydrates alone.

So I gather one of two things from this...

You either did not read at all what I wrote.

or

You just have absolutely no clue what you`re talking about i pick this one.

hahaha..........

**Klimax** · 08-17-2009, 04:27 AM

In my opinion the fact that sugar is better than complex carbs powo is a rumour spread by supplements brands which wanna sell their shit.

**Klimax** · 08-17-2009, 04:28 AM

And i'm stupid becuse i believed them a while.

**Undercover** · 08-17-2009, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

What in the name of God's green Earth does that have even the SLIGHTEST bit to do with what I asked you?

I asked how 50g carbs from dextrose was better than 50g carbs from sweet potato PWO.

You put up 2 studies:

1 states that you can gain more muscle taking amino acids PWO rather than in the morning and the other states that people gained more muscle using protein plus carbs after workout as opposed to just carbohydrates alone.

So I gather one of two things from this...

You either did not read at all what I wrote.

or

You just have absolutely no clue what you`re talking about.

What? The first study has nothing to do with what you just said. You obviously didn't read it well.

The purpose of the first study was "to examine the effects of supplement timing compared with supplementation in the hours not close to the workout on muscle-fiber hypertrophy, strength, and body composition during a 10-wk RE program"

Wouldn't 50 g of dextrose digest faster than 50 g of sweet potatoe? and thus be used by the body earlier? That was my point.

Now the second study was meant for collar. I just forgot to quote him. He mentioned before that he doesn't consume simple sugars PWO. The second study shows that even a minimal dose of whey with simple sugars was able to stimulate a rise in MPS.

No need to get on your high horses, I'm not trying to lecture you. I'm looking for answers here. I posted the studies because there are tons of data supporting the role of simple sugars PWO. So really any kind of scientific explanation as to why you're both against the notion would be appreciated.

**C_Bino** · 08-17-2009, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Undercover

What? The first study has nothing to do with what you just said. You obviously didn't read it well.

I didnt read it well? Here is a DIRECT quote from the study stating its purpose.

"In a single-blind, randomized protocol, resistance-trained males were matched for strength and placed into one of two groups; the PRE-POST group consumed a supplement (1 g x kg(-1) body weight) containing protein/creatine/glucose immediately before and after RE. The MOR-EVE group consumed the same dose of the same supplement in the morning and late evening"

So, one group consumed amino's and supplements in close proximity to their training and the other just in the am and pm regardless of training time...now you tell me what I read wrong...

I asked why high GI was better than low GI and this is the study you provide?

The purpose of the first study was "to examine the effects of supplement timing compared with supplementation in the hours not close to the workout on muscle-fiber hypertrophy, strength, and body composition during a 10-wk RE program"

Here, even your own quote proves it. So ONCE AGAIN for the 10th time, what in the f*cking name of hell does this have to do with sugar being better than a sweet potatoe after workouts?

Wouldn't 50 g of dextrose digest faster than 50 g of sweet potatoe? and thus be used by the body earlier? That was my point.

Used earlier for what? Glycogen replenishment? That is a task that takes up to 48 hours. I really dont even know what you are trying to get at here.

Now the second study was meant for collar. I just forgot to quote him. He mentioned before that he doesn't consume simple sugars PWO. The second study shows that even a minimal dose of whey with simple sugars was able to stimulate a rise in MPS.

Ya, and the other group consumed carbs only. So, yet again, how does this show Collar that simple sugars are better. They didnt compare using simple to none-simple, they compared using carbs and protein to just carbs. LOL.

No need to get on your high horses, I'm not trying to lecture you. I'm looking for answers here. I posted the studies because there are tons of data supporting the role of simple sugars PWO. So really any kind of scientific explanation as to why you're both against the notion would be appreciated.

If there is tons of data showing why high GI is better than low GI please show me.

**Klimax** · 08-17-2009, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Undercover

What? The first study has nothing to do with what you just said. You obviously didn't read it well.

The purpose of the first study was "to examine the effects of supplement timing compared with supplementation in the hours not close to the workout on muscle-fiber hypertrophy, strength, and body composition during a 10-wk RE program"

Wouldn't 50 g of dextrose digest faster than 50 g of sweet potatoe? and thus be used by the body earlier? That was my point.

Now the second study was meant for collar. I just forgot to quote him. He mentioned before that he doesn't consume simple sugars PWO. The second study shows that even a minimal dose of whey with simple sugars was able to stimulate a rise in MPS.

No need to get on your high horses, I'm not trying to lecture you. I'm looking for answers here. I posted the studies because there are tons of data supporting the role of simple sugars PWO. So really any kind of scientific explanation as to why you're both against the notion would be appreciated.

The studies show that eating po-wo is better than in the evening(1) and that add carb to pro postwo is better than only carb(2) but none here has denied it. We're just saying that complex carbs are better than sugar powo.

**Undercover** · 08-17-2009, 11:13 AM

So, one group consumed amino's and supplements in close proximity to their training and the other just in the am and pm regardless of training time...now you tell me what I read wrong...

I asked why high GI was better than low GI and this is the study you provide?

Ok, maybe I should have explained further. The CHOs given were simple sugars right? An insulin spike post workout was more effective than spikes hours away from workout.

Low GI sugars are slow-releasing and, thus, wouldn't cause an insulin spike.

My question for you, I guess, would be: What is the significance of the insulin spike high GI sugars provide PWO?

Used earlier for what? Glycogen replenishment? That is a task that takes up to 48 hours. I really dont even know what you are trying to get at here.

Actually, it can be a bit faster than that. PWO whey and simple sugar supplementation increases glycogen recovery.

Ya, and the other group consumed carbs only. So, yet again, how does this show Collar that simple sugars are better. They didnt compare using simple to none-simple, they compared using carbs and protein to just carbs. LOL.

I never told collar simple sugars were any better. I assumed he was doing whey-only PWO shakes. And even though the study compares carbs to pro+carb shakes, the conclusion is still the same.

If there is tons of data showing why high GI is better than low GI please show me.

Reading comprehension 101. I just said there is tons of data supporting the role of high GI sugars PWO.

Your claim is simple sugars PWO are useless or are just as useful as low GI sugars PWO. Where is proof? You're the one making the claim, not me.

Originally Posted by Klimax

The studies show that eating po-wo is better than in the evening(1) and that add carb to pro postwo is better than only carb(2) but none here has denied it. We're just saying that complex carbs are better than sugar pow

Yes, but why?

**Klimax** · 08-17-2009, 11:24 AM

With sugar there's more risk that the amount the body doesn't store as glycogen is stored as fat. The body's speed of replenishing glycogen has a limit.

**C_Bino** · 08-17-2009, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Undercover

Ok, maybe I should have explained further. The CHOs given were simple sugars right? An insulin spike post workout was more effective than spikes hours away from workout.

Low GI sugars are slow-releasing and, thus, wouldn't cause an insulin spike.

Not ONCE in that study did it mention ANYTHING about insulin spikes. So again how is it any better than a low GI? Ya ok they gave them simple sugars and yet again the conclusion is LIMITED to the fact that its better to consume them after workout than earlier in the day. Ok...your point being?

The entire argument right from the get go was why is simple sugar better? You have posted studies with NOTHING to do with that and still havent answered my question.
My question for you, I guess, would be: What is the significance of the insulin spike high GI sugars provide PWO?

What is the significance? LMFAOOOOOOOOOO...this is what I was asking you the entire time? There is no significance lol.

Actually, it can be a bit faster than that. PWO whey and simple sugar supplementation increases glycogen recovery.

I never told collar simple sugars were any better. I assumed he was doing whey-only PWO shakes. And even though the study compares carbs to pro+carb shakes, the conclusion is still the same.

Reading comprehension 101. I just said there is tons of data supporting the role of high GI sugars PWO.

Your claim is simple sugars PWO are useless or are just as useful as low GI sugars PWO. Where is proof? You're the one making the claim, not me.

Yes, but why?

Where is the proof? I already told you, glycogen replenishment does not occur in 30 min.

But go ahead keep taking your simple sugars, lower your immune system, increase your risk of hypoglycemia, retain more water...

I didnt go to school for 7 years in this field to debate things with people who have no clue.

So like I said, keep doing what you're doing. I'm sure you know a lot more than me.

**collar** · 08-17-2009, 03:55 PM

well first of all no one said whey shake all by itself.

But i and many other guys as i see here prefer complex carbs to simple sugars straight after training.

I dont want to repeat why it is better but bino has just gave you plenty of reasons..

The one i do look at is ummm the health risks (lower your immune system, increase your risk of hypoglycemia) stuff like this i do not need.

also bino did say you cannot replensih your glycogen in half hour.

Now the MAIN point for me is this if i eat clean all year round and i am very ripped, trying maintain these days.

so meaning im trying keep my body fat so low why would i waste some of my calories on simple sugars??

where within a short time i am starving again???

So i prefer to have lower gi food much more complex carbs to keep me full for longer and healthier

.

not to mention when you have simple sugars the bloatness and water retention you get..

by the way he is not on no high horse, he just knows his stuff and would like to know otherwise if you are there to make a claim about something to show him prove.....

**Orlando Rocket** · 08-17-2009, 04:39 PM

Bino and Collar know their sh*t! Be glad they're here, I have learned TONS form their diet posts. Just take their word for it, implement it, then (in time) see the results.

**Undercover** · 08-18-2009, 03:22 PM

I didnt go to school for 7 years in this field to debate things with people who have no clue.

So like I said, keep doing what you're doing. I'm sure you know a lot more than me.

I won't even respond to the comments you made about my previous post, because we're just going in circles. You're just taking a part of what I'm saying and refuting it. Classic straw man. Also, loling doesn't make you look any more right.

I don't really care about your 7 years. Just out of curiousity, though, what did you study?

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Where is the proof? I already told you, glycogen replenishment does not occur in 30 min.

But go ahead keep taking your simple sugars, lower your immune system, increase your risk of hypoglycemia, retain more water...

So the whole insulin spiking thing is complete bs? (this is an actual question btw)

Thank you both for the info, but try to bear with me here. That's just the way I learn things. I doubt everyone and everything (especially on the internet). Honestly, I don't really know who you are or what your qualifications are. All I know is that you're both respected on an internet forum. That's not much now is it?
The reason misconceptions spread is because people believe everything they read, as long as it's from a 'reputable' source.

Now, back to the actual subject:

We all agree that glucose replenishment is a long process. What about making that process a bit shorter though?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19593593

Post-exercise supplementation with carbohydrate and WPH increases skeletal muscle glycogen recovery by activating key enzymes such as Akt/PKB and atypical PKCs.

Note to Bino: Yes, the study doesn't involve low gi but that's not the point. I'm not trying to show low gi sugars as useless. I'm trying to show you that high gi sugars can be useful PWO.

**sizerp** · 08-19-2009, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by Undercover

I won't even respond to the comments you made about my previous post, because we're just going in circles. You're just taking a part of what I'm saying and refuting it. Classic straw man. Also, loling doesn't make you look any more right.

I don't really care about your 7 years. Just out of curiousity, though, what did you study?

So the whole insulin spiking thing is complete bs? (this is an actual question btw)

Thank you both for the info, but try to bear with me here. That's just the way I learn things. I doubt everyone and everything (especially on the internet). Honestly, I don't really know who you are or what your qualifications are. All I know is that you're both respected on an internet forum. That's not much now is it?
The reason misconceptions spread is because people believe everything they read, as long as it's from a 'reputable' source.

Now, back to the actual subject:

We all agree that glucose replenishment is a long process. What about making that process a bit shorter though?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19593593

Note to Bino: Yes, the study doesn't involve low gi but that's not the point. I'm not trying to show low gi sugars as useless. I'm trying to show you that high gi sugars can be useful PWO.

That's the common misconception though brah.

YOU DON'T NEED HIGH GI CARBS PWO.

Get it? Got it? Good!

It's all bro knowledge. The fact that we need to "spike our insulin" immediately after lifting.

Try both:

High GI carbs
Low GI carbs
+EFA

Do a personal study, tell us what results you get... overall bodily feelings, etc...

Bino speaks from EXP, and his physique shows it works. His education paid off.

**Undercover** · 08-19-2009, 07:51 AM

I know Bino most probably knows his shit. That's why I'm arguing with him.

So far, what I concluded from the studies I posted is the following:

- Supplementation (includes high gi sugars) is far more effective PWO than any other time of the day. (this would require relatively faster digestion)
- Even minimal amounts of whey protein + high gi sugars stimulated muscle protein synthesis
- PWO supplementation of high gi sugars + whey was able to increase skeletal muscle glycogen recovery

Now remember, I was never trying to undermine the role of low gi sugars. My argument from the beginning was to show the benefits of a whey+high gi sugar PWO shake.

Would a low gi + whey shake reap the same results? I really can't say. I would love to see proof of this.