Its Keto time!! help please....

**adem-** · 08-11-2010, 07:49 AM

Well i have been dieting for quite some time now and just need to lower the last few kg's.
wondering if this ketogenic diet is adequate.......

76kg
180cm tall
24 yrs old
12.5% bf estimated.

meal 1 - 4whole eggs 4 egg whites, 2000mg fish oil

meal 2 - 1 small tin tuna (in spring water), handful almonds

meal 3 - 5oz chicken breast, 1/2 avocado.

meal 4 - 50g whey protein (in water) , 1 tbs natural penut butter

TRAINING

meal 5 - 50g whey protein (in water) , 1 tbs natural penut butter

meal 6 - 5oz chicken breast, 1 cup broccoli, 1/2 avocado

meal 7 - 50g casein protein, 1 tbs natural penut butter

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I am also about to start a prop cycle, is ketogenic dieting ok during cycle. Or should i wait till i have finished and then start??

Thanks!!

**Damienm05** · 08-11-2010, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by adem-

Well i have been dieting for quite some time now and just need to lower the last few kg's.
wondering if this ketogenic diet is adequate.......

76kg
180cm tall
24 yrs old
12.5% bf estimated.

meal 1 - 4whole eggs 4 egg whites, 2000mg fish oil Good meal.

meal 2 - 1 small tin tuna (in spring water), handful almonds What's a handful? I gained a bit of fat on my last cycle because I was using "handfuls" as almond portions that ended up being like 2-3 servings. 22-26 almonds (1 0z. or ~1/4 cup) is a serving and 175-190 cals. Be careful!

meal 3 - 5oz chicken breast, 1/2 avocado. Good.

meal 4 - 50g whey protein (in water) , 1 tbs natural penut butter You should ideally do a whole food meal pre-workout. A fatty red meat meal with veggies on keto would be the best. An example would be: 6 oz. NY strip, 1 cup broccoli, 1 teaspoon EVOO. If you must stick to the shake, make sure it's an isopure with no carbs (they add up!) and double the PB serving. More cals should come from fat.

TRAINING

meal 5 - 50g whey protein (in water) , 1 tbs natural penut butter Double the PB serving.

meal 6 - 5oz chicken breast, 1 cup broccoli, 1/2 avocado Good.

meal 7 - 50g casein protein, 1 tbs natural penut butter Again, you need at least 50% of your cals via fat and you're below 40% at the moment. All these meals that have 40-50g pro need to be 20g fat; not 9. That said, your net carbs are gonna be too high with that much PB: see below.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I am also about to start a prop cycle, is ketogenic dieting ok during cycle. Or should i wait till i have finished and then start?? Just wait, if you follow the diet I have set for you, no cheating, it won't be long before you're under 10% bf. At that point, re-introduce carbs and get jacked - don't waste your gear. You can cut naturally as AAS is a mass gainer, not a fat-loss tool really - however, getting bigger using AAS is exponentially more effective. Right?! Patience...

Thanks!!

OK thoughts above. While the initial diet was clean and well structured; it wasn't really a keto diet. If at least 50% of your cals aren't coming from fat, you may not be able to enter ketosis and convert your body into a fat burning engine. You'll certainly lose muscle mass and look too depleted without an energy source to spare protein. You'll also be lethargic for the above reasons. My corrections have addressed that but two things have happened in the process:

A) your net carbs may be above 40-50g now. That's not terrible but initially I see it as best to set cerbs at a max of 25g for the first coupke weeks and work your way up to gauge your body's ability to maintain keto with more net carbs. Some people can't even stay in with more than 20g! This is an easy fix. Replace 2 servings of nuts and a serving of avocado with EVOO or macadamia nut oil. Walnut, Udo's, flax, fish oil, and many others are all good too. Oils are also impossible to over-eat on when measured unlike nuts.

B) your total cals may be high. I'd really need to see your tdee and macros of course; so do them yourself and re-post if you're really serious. With so many cals from fat at 9 cals per gram and like 120g - it's hard to keep a deficit. And as many forget, even on keto, you should still eat, at most, around maintenacne with regular cardio or 500 below with less.

Also, have a cheat meal once per week. Last meal of the day as to prevent a "cheat day". Something simple and clean like a glass of wine, 2 cups of white rice, and some Teriyaki chicken, a sushi roll, and some sorbet was mine last night. This will prevent a plateau and give you an emergency reserve of glycogen. Just be careful, a bag of Starburst and a whole pizza may have you feeling bloated the next couple days.

Seeing a lot of keto diets posted lately. Nice to see people off this whole Atkins style CKD with the bad eating habits 7-days.

**adem-** · 08-12-2010, 07:44 AM

Ok, so i have taken into account all the info you have written up and revised my diet with all the maths. So hopefully this works.....

Meal 1 total calories
4eggs 4whites 4fish oil tabs
pt 38.4 c4 ft18 ft4
153.6 16 162 36 367.6

Meal 2
1 small tin tuna 30g almonds
pt19 ft1 ft7
76 9 63 148

Meal 3
5oz chicken breast 1/2 avocado
pt45 ft7.5 ft13
180 67.5 117 364.5

Meal 4
5oz NY steak 2tbs flax oil
pt45 ft24 ft10
160 216 90 465

Meal 5
50g whey + 2egg whts 2tbs flax or almond oil
pt40 c2.6 ft1.8 ft10
160 10.4 16.2 90 276.6

TRAINING

Meal 6
5oz chicken breast 1/2 avocado 1cup brocolli
pt45 ft7.5 ft13 c4 f1
180 67.5 117 20 9 389.5

Meal 7
50g cassein + 2 egg whts 2tbs nat penut butter
pt40 c2.6 ft1.8 pt9 c5 ft20
160 10.4 16.2 81 20 180 467.6

Total PT276.4g C18.2g FT138.6
1105.6 72.8 1247.4 total calories 2479.8

So thats the diet all mapped out. Have a look at this one now. It looks to be pretty good calorie wise. And i definately have more fats added in now. Thanks heaps for all the info previously as well.

As for the lay out.
Mon to Fri i stick to this. Fri night 1 meal all day sat and sun morning i carb up 18hrs aprox. With good carbs eg: brown rice and Yams. Then Sunday after my first meal its back to this diet again if im correct. And start the process over again??

i was unsure on your answer previously wether or not its ok to cycle while on this diet. Or should i just wait till i have finished to begin......

Anway, if you could help me finalise this that would be great.

**adem-** · 08-12-2010, 07:45 AM

well it didnt post the numbers the way i layed it out but im sure you get the idea....

**Damienm05** · 08-12-2010, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by adem-

Ok, so i have taken into account all the info you have written up and revised my diet with all the maths. So hopefully this works.....

Meal 1 total calories
4eggs 4whites 4fish oil tabs
pt 38.4 c4 ft18 ft4
153.6 16 162 36 367.6
Good meal

Meal 2
1 small tin tuna 30g almonds
pt19 ft1 ft7
76 9 63 148
Kind of a skimp protein meal here man. I'd do a large tin. Also, your macros are off as 30g of almonds is basically 1 oz. - which is a standard serving and between 170-190 cals.

Meal 3
5oz chicken breast 1/2 avocado
pt45 ft7.5 ft13
180 67.5 117 364.5
5 oz. cooked may yield 40g - raw it will be 22-26g or so - either way, 7.5g fat via chicken is high - I'm sure it's half of that. Macros off but good keto meal.

Meal 4
5oz NY steak 2tbs flax oil
pt45 ft24 ft10
160 216 90 465
Good meal

Meal 5
50g whey + 2egg whts 2tbs flax or almond oil
pt40 c2.6 ft1.8 ft10
160 10.4 16.2 90 276.6
Macros off again. 2 tbs of any oil is at least 220 calories! You've stated 90. As for the whey, I'd run a lean meat/fish based meal.

TRAINING

Meal 6
5oz chicken breast 1/2 avocado 1cup brocolli
pt45 ft7.5 ft13 c4 f1
180 67.5 117 20 9 389.5
Chug a scoop of whey directly PWO and push this meal back 30 minutes or so. You want the whey PWO to aid in recovery as quickly as possible. To emphasize: Lift, PWO whey shake with no added fat within 10-15 minutes. 30 minutes later, meal 6.

Meal 7
50g cassein + 2 egg whts 2tbs nat penut butter
pt40 c2.6 ft1.8 pt9 c5 ft20
160 10.4 16.2 81 20 180 467.6
Perfect

Total PT276.4g C18.2g FT138.6
1105.6 72.8 1247.4 total calories 2479.8

So thats the diet all mapped out. Have a look at this one now. It looks to be pretty good calorie wise. And i definately have more fats added in now. Thanks heaps for all the info previously as well.

As for the lay out.
Mon to Fri i stick to this. Fri night 1 meal all day sat and sun morning i carb up 18hrs aprox. With good carbs eg: brown rice and Yams. Then Sunday after my first meal its back to this diet again if im correct. And start the process over again?? I think "carb-ups" are silly on these Palumbo style keto diets. They are clean with plenty of good fats for energy. Provided you're not an endurance athlete, I see no reason to carb-load for 12-24 hours straight. More often than not, it's a setback. Just eat a big cheat meal as your last meal of the day, every 7 days to keep an emergency store of glycogen and keep your body guessing. A good example is going out to dinner with a date and having a glass of wine, steak/baked potato, and a moderate dessert.

i was unsure on your answer previously wether or not its ok to cycle while on this diet. Or should i just wait till i have finished to begin...... Wait until you've reached your fat loss goal to cycle. You can't make the most of your gear without carbs, or at least plenty of calories and more protein.

Anway, if you could help me finalise this that would be great.

Fix your macros. Comments in bold. Diet is 90% nice.

**adem-** · 08-12-2010, 06:36 PM

Sorry i made a mistake. 'Training' is meant to be before meal 5.

So do you think the fat in chicken should be halved?? or is there a website i can look at to get those macros??

In regards to the amlonds, how many fats in 1oz, cos i might reduce this accordingly...
So the chicken would only be 22- 26g protein cos ill alter that.
And for the oils, how much fat per Tbs??
As for the tuna, i will make it a large tin.

If you can provide me with this information i will re-do the diet again with all the 'proper' macros this time and then hopefully we are spot on!!

Can i have creatine and BCAA's while on this diet??

almost there with this......

**Damienm05** · 08-12-2010, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by adem-

Sorry i made a mistake. 'Training' is meant to be before meal 5.

So do you think the fat in chicken should be halved?? or is there a website i can look at to get those macros?? use fitday.com and make sure to specify skinless or skin not eaten.

In regards to the amlonds, how many fats in 1oz, cos i might reduce this accordingly... 1 oz. is about 150 cals from fat.
So the chicken would only be 22- 26g protein cos ill alter that. raw or cooked? again, use fitday.com
And for the oils, how much fat per Tbs?? about 14.5g on average
As for the tuna, i will make it a large tin.

If you can provide me with this information i will re-do the diet again with all the 'proper' macros this time and then hopefully we are spot on!!

Can i have creatine and BCAA's while on this diet?? BCAAs yes, creatine is more complicated - see, it requires a delivery system to get to the muscles. What system is that? Carbs via the glucose and water that creates glycogen. Therefore, it's unlikely to have any effect on this diet and would be wasted money.

almost there with this......

bold

**adem-** · 08-13-2010, 08:04 AM

and once again back to the drawing board.....when u calculate the total pt, c, ft they dont add to the total of what my diet says for some reason but its only 20 calories or so off. so i really couldnt be bothered scanning through. took me forever anyway....

Meal 1 total calories
4eggs 4whites 4fish oil tabs
pt 38.4 c4 ft18 ft4
153.6, 16, 162, 36 total calories 367.6

Meal 2
2 small tin tuna 20g almonds
pt40 ft2 pt4 ft16.6
160, 18, 16, 150 total calories 344

Meal 3
5oz chicken breast 1/2 avocado
pt42 ft7.5 ft13
168, 67.5, 117, total calories 352.5

Meal 4
5oz NY steak 1tbs flax oil
pt45 ft24 ft14.5
160, 216, 130.5, total calories 506.5

TRAINING

Meal 5
50g whey + 2egg whts 1tbs flax or almond oil
pt40 c2.6 ft1.8 ft14.5
160, 10.5, 16.2, 130.5, total calories 317.1

Meal 6
5oz chicken breast 1/2 avocado 1cup brocolli
pt42 ft7.5 ft13 c4 f1
168, 67.5, 117, 16, 9, total calories 377.5

Meal 7
50g cassein + 2 egg whts 2tbs nat penut butter
pt40 c2.6 ft1.8 pt9 c5 ft20
160, 10.4, 16.2, 81, 20, 180, total calories 467.6

protein 295.4 carb 18.2 fat 159.2
1181.6, 72.8, 1432.8 total diet calories 2687.2

Just wondering if my fats are a little to high in comparison to my protein. if so i might reduce the 2 tbs of penut butter to 1 tbs.
Other than that i think its almost there. Not sure if this needs to be fine tuned much more......

**Damienm05** · 08-13-2010, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by adem-

and once again back to the drawing board.....when u calculate the total pt, c, ft they dont add to the total of what my diet says for some reason but its only 20 calories or so off. so i really couldnt be bothered scanning through. took me forever anyway....

Meal 1 total calories
4eggs 4whites 4fish oil tabs Good
pt 38.4 c4 ft18 ft4
153.6, 16, 162, 36 total calories 367.6

Meal 2
2 small tin tuna 20g almonds Good
pt40 ft2 pt4 ft16.6
160, 18, 16, 150 total calories 344

Meal 3
5oz chicken breast 1/2 avocado Good
pt42 ft7.5 ft13
168, 67.5, 117, total calories 352.5

Meal 4
5oz NY steak 1tbs flax oil Good, especially pre-workout
pt45 ft24 ft14.5
160, 216, 130.5, total calories 506.5

TRAINING

Meal 5
50g whey + 2egg whts 1tbs flax or almond oil Good
pt40 c2.6 ft1.8 ft14.5
160, 10.5, 16.2, 130.5, total calories 317.1

Meal 6
5oz chicken breast 1/2 avocado 1cup brocolli Good
pt42 ft7.5 ft13 c4 f1
168, 67.5, 117, 16, 9, total calories 377.5

Meal 7
50g cassein + 2 egg whts 2tbs nat penut butter No need for egg whites.
pt40 c2.6 ft1.8 pt9 c5 ft20
160, 10.4, 16.2, 81, 20, 180, total calories 467.6

protein 295.4 carb 18.2 fat 159.2
1181.6, 72.8, 1432.8 total diet calories 2687.2

Just wondering if my fats are a little to high in comparison to my protein. if so i might reduce the 2 tbs of penut butter to 1 tbs. No your fat intake in relation to protein is perfect - the question is - what's your BMR and TDEE? The ratio is great but your total cals now need to be adjusted which you can do without help now that you have the diet dialed in. Shoot for 300-500 below TDEE.
Other than that i think its almost there. Not sure if this needs to be fine tuned much more...... Nope, just the cals and reducing/upping portions accordingly.

BOLD. Good job man.

**adem-** · 08-15-2010, 04:51 AM

Diet is spot on now, all macros add up!! I think this is the final result......

Meal 1
4 eggs + 4 egg whites, 4 fish oil tabs
pt38.4, c4, ft18, ft4
153.6, 16, 162, 36 > total calories 367.6

Meal 2
2 small tins tuna, 20g almonds
pt40, ft2, pt4, ft16.6
160, 18, 16, 149.4 > total calories 343.4

Meal 3
5oz chicken, 1/2 avocado
pt42, ft7.5, ft13
168, 67.5, 117 > total calories 352.5

Meal 4
5oz NY cut steak, 1tbs flax oil
pt45, ft24, ft13
180, 216, 117 > total calories 513

TRAINING

Meal 5
50g whey + 2egg whites, 1tbs flax oil
pt40, c2.6, ft1.8, ft 14.5
160, 10.40, 16.2, 130.5 > total calories 317.1

Meal 6
5oz chicken breast, 1/2 avocado, 1 cup brocolli
pt42, ft7.5, ft13, c4, ft1
168, 67.5, 117, 16, 9 > total calories 377.5

Meal 7
50g cassein protein + 2 egg whites, 2tbs natural penut butter
pt34, pt6, c2.6, ft1.8, pt9, c5, ft20
136, 24, 10.4, 16.2, 36, 20, 180 > total calories 398.6

totals pt300.4, c18.2, ft157.7
1201.6, 72.8, 1419.3 . total calories 2693.7

Weight: 74.5 <-- lost more from the begining
Height: 5foot 9''
Age: 25

BMR = 1793.39
TDEE = BMR X 1.725 (based on exercise 7 times per week)
1793.39 X 1.725 = 3093.59

3093.59 - 2693.7 = 399.89 <--calories below TDEE

I dont think i can get much better than this.....thoughts???

**Football_Bill** · 08-15-2010, 06:07 AM

Not enough fat.
65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

www.keto.org
www.hannenhealth.com/keto.htm

I also agree with above, follow the diet and hold off on the gear until BF is lower. I dropped off keto for my latest cycle. Went from 290 to 230 in 6 months, and that is with taking a week off here and there because of holidays.

My typical diet was always 500 cals under maintenance without feeling hungry, fat fills you up real well.

**adem-** · 08-15-2010, 06:50 AM

3093.59 - 2693.7 = 399.89 <--calories below TDEE

why would i increase my fats when my calories are 400 below TDEE??
the ratio of protein to fats is about 45% - 55%. I read earlier that its meant to be 50/50 now im getting mixed msgs.....

**Damienm05** · 08-15-2010, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by adem-

3093.59 - 2693.7 = 399.89 <--calories below TDEE

why would i increase my fats when my calories are 400 below TDEE??
the ratio of protein to fats is about 45% - 55%. I read earlier that its meant to be 50/50 now im getting mixed msgs.....

You're fine bro. 50/50 is the minumun, 45/55 is great, 65/35 if you're carding up for 24 hours or more to ensure quick keto transitions.

You're good to go.