'Dieting 101: Cutting'

[GirlyGymRat]

gbrice75 ... this is by far the most informal thread I had read on here. I have learned more in the past 15 minutes reading this than I ever have. To have someone explain how to split your macros and explain the formula to do so.... you should see the lightbulb above my head right now haha!!! So informative! Thank you so much for posting this

Gbrice is awesome resource. With his guidance and others I lost 40 lbs. and kept it off!!

[CookiesNCream]

Gbrice is awesome resource. With his guidance and others I lost 40 lbs. and kept it off!!

Forgive me ... i am half asleep today ... when i said informal i meant that I learned so much reading the thread... don't know if informal was the right word to use ..lol. oops. my apologies if that didn't make sense

[gbrice75]

lol, I think you meant 'informative'.

And no problem, glad to be of any help!

[zimmaakaviper]

dude this thread has made me realise i have been doing it totally wrong i am reconstructing my diet as we speak gp u legend!!!

[zimmaakaviper]

Gbrice is awesome resource. With his guidance and others I lost 40 lbs. and kept it off!!

congrats ggr hopefully i can do same!!

[gbrice75]

dude this thread has made me realise i have been doing it totally wrong i am reconstructing my diet as we speak gp u legend!!!

idk who gp is but I'll say thanks in his place, lol!

[cj111]

Great thread..but I am not 100% convinced anymore how 6-8 small meals a day is any better than 2-3 bigger ones. Is there any actual proof on this? All the studies I read basically claim the opposite, not to eat so frequently .

This is a lil rant I pulled off a friends FB page, made me question all the things I've heard for years.


This is what I've been saying for years!! If you hammer your pancreas by eating SHIT and eating too frequently it will retard it's function to the point where you develop type II diabetes mellitus. As long as you take care of it, you can stop it and even reverse it (or greatly improve it to the point where exogenous insulin isn't required at least). This corroborates with my theory about eating infrequently versus frequently for better health and especially insulin and glucose management as well.

Aside from making poor food choices, what commonality exists with the eating patterns of someone who's developed T2DM? The answer is their eating frequency! So why do people constantly say "eat lots of small meals" if you want to lose weight or adopt a healthier life style? If achieving better health is the goal, it doesn't make sense to adopt an unhealthy lifestyle and think you'll have different results. Subjecting your pancreas to an increased workload won't make you healthier, and it doesn't matter how hard your will and determination is - That's not how endocrinology and metabolism works. The dietary advice that I hear people regurgitating is sickening and dangerous and goes completely against the grain.

Recommendations to eat foods with a low glycemic rating are often made, which is good. But it won't make an appreciable impact on one's glucose metabolism if they continue to eat all of the time. A mechanic will tell you that a combution engine takes the biggest hit when it's started cold, and it's a similar situation with eating. Avoid cold starts if it's at all possible. When you eat, there is a cascade of hormones that are released to deal with these macronutrients and the glandular organs that handle this will become exhausted if you put too much milage on them. If we can minimize the amount of times this happens in a day, these organs will remain happy and healthy more often than not.

T2DB is a first-world problem more often than not, and while I don't mean to shame or generalize people (other health complications can precipitate T2DB development) we need to call a spade a spade and develop treatments that are in alignment with the disease. If the proper precautions and appropriate treatments are applied, I can see this disease fizzling away much more gracefully than it is now. The rampancy of this disease is outstanding and needs to be recognized as more and more people become pre-diabetic and fully diabetic. Everyone needs to take a stab at this by stopping their poor recommendations to eat all the time, because it's simply incorrect and bad advice.

If someone recommends that you eat a ton of meals and supports their claim by telling you it "stokes the metabolic furnace", run in the other direction because it'll burn calories and distance you from their poor advice. Don't bother to humor this fallacy because while it's common, it's misunderstood and is just a case of regurgigated bro science. Some people in the fitness industry just read a few abstracts or skimmed over a poorly controlled meta-analysis and concluded that your metabolism is increased with eating, therefore eat more often should increase metabolism and must be a good thing... this is poor science if you can even call it that. People ran with it and we've ended up where we are now. We know that eating too often creates health problems, so we need to understand and appreciate that eating too often is NOT an effective means of getting healthy. The old adage "everything in moderation" is more than appropriate in this situation. If you want to take charge of your health and your diet in particular, don't go to extremes. The answer usually lies somewhere in the middle of all the half-truths.


That's my rant for the day. If anyone wants to contest it, I'll buy them a glucose meter and some strips and you eat the way I tell you for a couple of weeks and lets compare the results of a fasting tolerance test. I guarantee, without a shadow of a doubt in my tiny little mind, that I will win hands down.

http://www.globalregina.com/health/c...203/story.html This is the link for diabetes research. I'm not trying to start a debate, its just information if anyone wants to read it!

[gbrice75]

Great thread..but I am not 100% convinced anymore how 6-8 small meals a day is any better than 2-3 bigger ones. Is there any actual proof on this? All the studies I read basically claim the opposite, not to eat so frequently.

Tbh, I didn't read the FB rant... because I already agree with you. Realize that I wrote this sticky over a year ago, and like anybody with a thirst for knowledge, I keep an open mind and am willing to change my views when there is evidence convincing enough to force me to rethink things. Meal frequency is one of them. Since experimenting with (and doing heavy research on) intermittent fasting, I'm convinced meal frequency matters very little, generally speaking. Frequent smaller meals do not speed up metabolism. If you consume 3000 calories over 1 meal or 8, your body has to metabolize 3000 calories. Makes sense.

Having said all that, this sticky is titled 'dieting 101', suggesting that it's geared towards helping newbs set up a diet plan they can stick with to maximize fat loss. As such, I do believe smaller, frequent meals is the best place to start for a beginner, mainly because in my experience, I've noticed that people who are overweight and consume less frequent, larger meals have a problem controlling portion size and overall caloric intake, resulting in increased bodyfat. It's difficult to overeat when you're eating 'like a bird' every few hours. So more than anything else, I believe the TRUE benefit of frequent smaller feedings is in portion control. Personally, I would never recommend IF and/or large infrequent meals to a beginner, as I consider that type of dieting somewhat 'advanced'. In other words, I feel you need to know your body before going beyond the basics.

I hope this explanation helps.

[cj111]

I 100% agree with you , was just showing the other side of the fence...Last 6 years all you hear is eat small meals 6-8 times a day because this is the way it is! And if you do anything else you will get fat.. I always like learning new stuff, its just just so engraved in our brains that small frequent meals is the norm. I tried to explain to my gf about fasting, and she looked at me like I was a complete fool.

[gbrice75]

I 100% agree with you , was just showing the other side of the fence...Last 6 years all you hear is eat small meals 6-8 times a day because this is the way it is! And if you do anything else you will get fat.. I always like learning new stuff, its just just so engraved in our brains that small frequent meals is the norm. I tried to explain to my gf about fasting, and she looked at me like I was a complete fool.

Yea bro, it's ridiculous - somebody reads something in a bodybuilding magazine, passes it on to his friends (not to mention the internet resources available in this day and age) and eventually it becomes gospel. It's asinine to believe one would get fat eating any other way but small frequent feedings. Fasting is awesome... for the hormonal benefits alone.

[cj111]

I'm going to give it a whirl , I always like trying new things. Haven't eaten since last night at 8pm and going to go today until around noon , which is 16 hours fasted.
That leads me to one questions though, you fit all your macros into a window of 6 hours of the day ( I'm consuming 250g protein a day) that contradicts all the "science" that your body can only digest 30grams every 2 hours or whatever it is ,( seems to change everyday).
Basically, how does that exactly work ? Do you still eat your daily macros once your fast is over? Im only trying it because I have a friend who fasts, and is in amazing shape...he even trains fasted and swears by it.

[gbrice75]

I'm going to give it a whirl , I always like trying new things. Haven't eaten since last night at 8pm and going to go today until around noon , which is 16 hours fasted.
That leads me to one questions though, you fit all your macros into a window of 6 hours of the day ( I'm consuming 250g protein a day) that contradicts all the "science" that your body can only digest 30grams every 2 hours or whatever it is ,( seems to change everyday).
Basically, how does that exactly work ? Do you still eat your daily macros once your fast is over? Im only trying it because I have a friend who fasts, and is in amazing shape...he even trains fasted and swears by it.

Man, that 'your body can only absorb 30g protein' mantra is even more asinine than the meal frequency debate IMO. It's ridiculous to think that a 130lb female and a 220lb male will both only be able to absorb X amount of protein. While there is a definite cap off, it's different from individual to individual, but the bigger point is that larger meals will simply take longer to digest. It's not as if our bodies will take in 200g protein (for instance), use maximum of 30g (based on this mantra), and waste 170g. If we digested our food and there was a huge amino acid dump into the bloodstream, I could see how maximum absorption per hour would be a concern - but that's not how it works. It's more like a 'trickle' effect... think of how an IV works.

Hit all your macros within your feeding window. Martin @ Leangains suggests a 16 hour fast / 8 hour feeding window, at most. If you can go with something like 18/6, even better. Studies show fat mobilization and hormonal benefits peaking somwhere around the 12 hour mark, so you definitely want to allow some time for the 'magic' to work

I've trained fasted every time I've run IF, and have had some of the most intense, focused workouts of my life. I expected the opposite - I expected to feel weak, lethargic, irritated - but I was pleasantly surprised.

[cj111]

Lovely, can't wait to try. At least this way i can get all my food ready and just sit down and have an eating party for a couple hours. I always thought "the window of opportunity" and the whole "30g at a time or you shit it out". Was a big joke, but that's all I ever read, even personal trainers swore by it. It seems the supplement industry and bodybuilding is the biggest farce out there, crazy claims and nothing to back it up. But if you see some big dude spouting any information you instantly suck it up like a sponge, I know I used to. Currently I am on 3 meals a day, and a shake, and honestly I feel better, could be all in my head but I doubt it.

[gbrice75]

Lovely, can't wait to try. At least this way i can get all my food ready and just sit down and have an eating party for a couple hours.

Agreed. I can't tell you how satisfied I was to eat a 'normal' sized meal. I was SICK of eating those tiny ass meals, and being hungry again 30 mins later. Perpetual underfeeding. I was able to sit down to dinner again with my wife, eat carbs, etc. It was great. If that's not enough, the fact that I didn't have to be a slave to the kitchen any longer was AWESOME.

I always thought "the window of opportunity" and the whole "30g at a time or you shit it out". Was a big joke, but that's all I ever read, even personal trainers swore by it. It seems the supplement industry and bodybuilding is the biggest farce out there, crazy claims and nothing to back it up.

I swore by it for a while too, because 'everybody was doing it'. You come to realize that bodybuilding mags are owned by supplement companies trying to push their products, so they drum up this kind of shit. All marketing. As for personal trainers - the majority I've seen and spoken to are jokes... embarrassments to their industry. Out of shape, don't even look like they train... and even the ones who do usually just spout off some broscience bs you can read in a magazine. Pathetic.

But if you see some big dude spouting any information you instantly suck it up like a sponge, I know I used to.

Same here. Then you often come to realize the 'big guys' don't know it all, and more often than not are just products of too much gear and too little knowledge. At least in my experience.

Currently I am on 3 meals a day, and a shake, and honestly I feel better, could be all in my head but I doubt it.

This is what it's all about bro. Do what feels best for YOU, not what somebody tells you to do because they read it somewhere.

[numass]

I have a question. how would you account for fruits and veggies that are higher in carbs. is it a bad thing if you go over with them? I loves me some fresh veggies. What is good alt. for steak also as I do not eat red meat.

[MuscleInk]

I have a question. how would you account for fruits and veggies that are higher in carbs. is it a bad thing if you go over with them? I loves me some fresh veggies. What is good alt. for steak also as I do not eat red meat.

Fresh fruit and fresh veggies should be included in any nutrition plan. They are a good low healthy carb source and should definitely be a part of your planned macros. Are you tracking your macronutrients?

Do you eat chicken or fish as alternatives to beef? Fish is a healthy alternative. Most are packed with omega fatty acids and moderate to high protein yields. My daily nutrition consists usually 8 oz or more of beef, chicken, AND fish every day, 7 days a week.

[gbrice75]

Fresh fruit and fresh veggies should be included in any nutrition plan. They are a good low healthy carb source and should definitely be a part of your planned macros.

I respectfully disagree with regard to fruit. Just because fruit is relatively 'healthy' (i.e. fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, etc) doesn't automatically qualify it as a good choice when fat loss is the focus of a diet regimen. Healthy or not, fruit is loaded with sugar, which, IMO, should be kept to an absolute minimum during a cut. This will help increase insulin sensitivity among other benefits. We want to be insulin-sensitive.

Having said that, if I incorporate a small amount, it'll be around my workout window and usually consist of berries instead of a banana for example. Lower sugar, more nutrient dense.

Veggies on the other hand are typically very low in carbs/calories and nutrient dense, so I say eat as much as you can. Leafy greens are best. As with anything else, include them when tracking macros.

do you eat chicken or fish as alternatives to beef? Fish is a healthy alternative. Most are packed with omega fatty acids and moderate to high protein yields. My daily nutrition consists usually 8 oz or more of beef, chicken, AND fish every day, 7 days a week.

x2. Any lean protein source will do. Fish, chicken, turkey, egg whites, etc. Plenty of options.

[numass]

thanks. I deffinitly am tracking my macros I notice that some times ill go over in carbs which in my case come mostly from veggies. but ill do what I can to bring that down my food is purchasdd by the house that I live in so I have a limited choice on food but I do very well considering my limitations. oh! and thanks for this its amazing.

[MuscleInk]

I respectfully disagree with regard to fruit. Just because fruit is relatively 'healthy' (i.e. fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, etc) doesn't automatically qualify it as a good choice when fat loss is the focus of a diet regimen. Healthy or not, fruit is loaded with sugar, which, IMO, should be kept to an absolute minimum during a cut. This will help increase insulin sensitivity among other benefits. We want to be insulin-sensitive.

Having said that, if I incorporate a small amount, it'll be around my workout window and usually consist of berries instead of a banana for example. Lower sugar, more nutrient dense.

Veggies on the other hand are typically very low in carbs/calories and nutrient dense, so I say eat as much as you can. Leafy greens are best. As with anything else, include them when tracking macros.

x2. Any lean protein source will do. Fish, chicken, turkey, egg whites, etc. Plenty of options.

Yes, i agree to a large extent GBrice. I only eat fruits low in the GI end for the very reason you stated. I'm cutting right now and all carb intake is cut by 1PM and my fruits are usually a banana or raspberries in a shake in the AM. Yes, when cutting, you need to limit any food high on the GI scale. It's impossible to get to single digit bf if you're not.

[*Admin*]

bump

[aquarius66794]

GB another awesome post and thanks again for taking the time to write it. It is always awesome to see the guys with the most knowledge share it with others. Great Job!!

[athletic.guy]

Another great thread. I'm currently 220 lbs 14%bf aiming for 8% in 3 months.

How lean do you think this style of diet would work before switching to the carb cycling style?

[Heatonx13]

Dieting is so hard :/ I love food