A few ketogenic and health questions.

**jypoll** · 11-13-2011, 04:22 PM

i am:
6'0" tall
220lbs
20-22% fat - just a guess but im sure its close to that
21yrs old
and i am a powerlifter wanting to 40lbs in 5 months

I am on day 6 of my first cyclic ketogenic diet. I believe i am eating correctly, i have done my homework on what to eat. I dont count my calories like a bodybuilder, i just eat when im hungry about 15 snacks a day (no real meals) and attempt to achieve 150-200g protein 150g fat and 40g carbs. Ketosis is well underway as of day 3. I use ketostix and i have moderate to high ketone-urine level. Already down 10lbs. I am taking just about any supplement useful for cutting. I am on ECA at a high dose as i have used ECA many times before and i can handle high doses of stimulants. I do not take clen or any hormone as i am in a drug-tested league.

What happens if do not do the carb-refeed? or do it everyother week?
What happens if i have very high ketone level in my urine?
And what happens if i starve myself (like 1500 cals a day)?

And just out of interest slightly off topic. has anyone heard of Keto Bulking diet?

**Dr Pepper** · 11-13-2011, 04:28 PM

I'm not sure about to much on keto diets however your protein intake looks very low?

**Sgt. Hartman** · 11-13-2011, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by jypoll

i am:
6'0" tall
220lbs
20-22% fat - just a guess but im sure its close to that
21yrs old
and i am a powerlifter wanting to 40lbs in 5 months

I am on day 6 of my first cyclic ketogenic diet. I believe i am eating correctly, i have done my homework on what to eat. I dont count my calories like a bodybuilder, i just eat when im hungry about 15 snacks a day (no real meals) and attempt to achieve 150-200g protein 150g fat and 40g carbs. Ketosis is well underway as of day 3. I use ketostix and i have moderate to high ketone-urine level. Already down 10lbs. I am taking just about any supplement useful for cutting. I am on ECA at a high dose as i have used ECA many times before and i can handle high doses of stimulants. I do not take clen or any hormone as i am in a drug-tested league.

What happens if do not do the carb-refeed? or do it everyother week? Your LBM will suffer and you'll probably become weaker than you thought possible
What happens if i have very high ketone level in my urine? A high ketone level in your urine would just indicate that you're burning large amounts of fat as an energy source. I don't know if you could reach an unhealthy point where the ketone level is too high but i really doubt it if you're eating 40g carbs per day.
And what happens if i starve myself (like 1500 cals a day)? 1500cal on keto = LBM for fuel

And just out of interest slightly off topic. has anyone heard of Keto Bulking diet? Oxymoron. Carbohydrates (glucose) is essential for hypertrophy IMO.

You say that you're not counting your calories and just eating when hungry but if you eat at a caloric excess above your maintenance level, how can you lose weight?

**jypoll** · 11-13-2011, 05:48 PM

ok thanks for the answers they are what i was assuming.. i do count my cals but not really, i do ensure i eat less than i burn as for protein 150-200 is a no gym day, on gym day i try for 200-250, but i dont want to overshoot because protein is easily broken into glucose if u have to much and then i lose ketosis

so carb refeed is just for a IGF spike after full body workout to maintain muscle?

**Spike85** · 11-14-2011, 07:01 PM

First find your BMR which is= BMR (men and women) = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)
220 lbs = 99.79 kg's x (20% bf)= 19.958 kgs of fat
99.79 kgs- 19.958= 79.832 Lean body mass

so 370+ (1724.37)= 2094.37 Cals.

You are supposed to add in daily expendature to this, but I never do. Its up to you. Either or, now calculate daily totals. 1 gram of protein per pound, 25 grams of carbs a day and the rest from fat.

220 x 1= 220 x (4 cals per gram)= 880 cals
25 grams of carbs x (4 cals per gram)= 100 cals
sub total is 980 cals, since fat equals 9 cals per gram, figure out the balance.
2094.37- 980= 1114.37 / 9= 123. 81 grams of fat

Daily Macros are: 220 grams of protein, 25 grams of carbs(max), 123. 81 grams of fat. Use fitday.com to play with food options to figure out a mealplan. Trust me it works, I was pretty much the same stats as you, and I have so far lost 32lbs and 5% bf in 13 weeks. Keep to it, and be strict, and you will have abs in no time.

**jypoll** · 11-15-2011, 12:36 PM

ok cool im gonna 2100 cals and see what happens..... what about re-feed? i was thinking 200g brown rice, and drop fat cals to even out, divided into 2 meals, immediately after workout and 4 hours later?

**Spike85** · 11-15-2011, 02:40 PM

If you are looking to refeed after each workout, this would be considered a TKD diet, which is more of a advanced ketosis diet that is geared towards bodybuilding. I guess it has advantages of decreasing the amount of muscle lost. It does probably take a little more monitoring, and carful planning so that you don't push your self out of ketosis. Personally I started the CKD with less than 25 grams of carbs for 2 weeks to start, to make sure my body was in a deep state of ketosis. I wanted to make sure that I actually started losing fat stores, instead of the 5-7 lb water weight loss everyone always sees in the first week. After those two weeks I started refeed saturday morning, and finished Sunday night, to give my self 36 hours of carbs. Some people only do the one day, but I felt that streching it another 24 hours wasn't going to affect my fat loss by a great deal and it kept me happier to cheat an extra day. On my reffed days I try to keep my fat down as much as possible, but I also enjoy what I eat. A diet that you can stay satisfied with is one that you can stick to for a longer period. I actually downloded a ebook (torrent), called the ketosis diet by Lyle Mcdonald. It goes in depth about Atkins, CKD, and TKD diets. It has alot of dry material about the phyisology, and science behind it, which unless your a dietitian, no one cares about. The book had everything you need to know about the diet and refeeding, and even how many sets it takes to reduce you glycogen levels. Hope this helps.

**jypoll** · 11-15-2011, 08:57 PM

yea i am talking about CKD refeed (weekly) not TKD, like you said i also skipped first re-feed just to make sure im getting the diet started, i am on day 9 of my CKD and have never had more the 40g carbs a day, my first cyclic refeed is on day 11, this thursday, i will gym at 10AM then will carb refeed throught the day and go for a walk the following morning (before breakfast) to ensure im back into ketosis, what do you suggest for my refeed?