Getting Protein in During Intermittent Fasting Hours...

[senior_xj]

So ive been on the diet for some time now & am gettin excellent results averaging 18 to 20 hrs of fasting with a small eating window where the food is kept clean. Im getting plenty of BCAAs, macronutrients, vitamins, & a few weight loss supps in everyday & i do my cardio sessions while fasted. I also lift after my cardio & have been making steady strength gains so i know im not loosing any muscle mass with the intermittent fasting diet.

The problem is that when i wake up soor as hell, ill start to feel sick if i dont have a protein shake which some people say breaks the fast that started with my 8 hours of sleep. I have 3oz protein shots with 42 grams of protein & even my protein shakes are only 10oz of fat free milk with 52 grams of protein so its not alot of fluid & i drink a ton of water thruout the day.

So my question is really that, does a small shot or shake break the fast, or can i get away with doing so since those soor muscles NEED protein??? If not then how can i shuttle enough protein in when my eating window is always less then 6 hrs???

Thanks!

[Turkish Juicer]

By no means I am an IM expert; however, I have fasted for long hours in the past where I would eat one large meal every 12 hours.

Regarding your question; yes, shake will break the fast because it will cause insulin to spike, inevitably so. Keep in mind that the IM philosophy is based on blunting insulin as much as possible and keep it that way for long hours.

[senior_xj]

Theres NO way the shake will spike my insulin as im type 2 diabetic & ever since starting this diet, i havent taken a single insulin shot!!! When i break the fast, its usually after my workouts whick end somewhere around 10pm & i start with a protein drink & then make myself a meal. Now in the past, if i had a 12oz soda, it would spike my insulin as high as 160+ & id need a shot to counteract the friggen soda i just drank. Now i can pound 3 12oz sodas & my sugar remains steady in normal range & thats proof positive that this diet does work in more ways then one!!
(& NO, i dont pound sodas like that as my diet is clean & i did it that once & tested my sugar several times over the next 24 hrs & not a single spike!!! I do buy those little 7.2oz gingerale cans & may have one with my meal once or twice a week, to be 100% honest.)

[energizer bunny]

So ive been on the diet for some time now & am gettin excellent results averaging 18 to 20 hrs of fasting with a small eating window where the food is kept clean. Im getting plenty of BCAAs, macronutrients, vitamins, & a few weight loss supps in everyday & i do my cardio sessions while fasted. I also lift after my cardio & have been making steady strength gains so i know im not loosing any muscle mass with the intermittent fasting diet.

The problem is that when i wake up soor as hell, ill start to feel sick if i dont have a protein shake which some people say breaks the fast that started with my 8 hours of sleep. I have 3oz protein shots with 42 grams of protein & even my protein shakes are only 10oz of fat free milk with 52 grams of protein so its not alot of fluid & i drink a ton of water thruout the day.

So my question is really that, does a small shot or shake break the fast, or can i get away with doing so since those soor muscles NEED protein??? If not then how can i shuttle enough protein in when my eating window is always less then 6 hrs???
Thanks!

are you hitting your targeted protein intake for the day in this window?

either way, why not just add the shake or shakes to your window meals?.......

[energizer bunny]

are you hitting your targeted protein intake for the day in this window?

either way, why not just add the shake or shakes to your window meals?.......

also coffee and full fat cream is good to take in your fasting window, this may help with the feeling sick.

[MrMayhem]

I recently found a shake that has nothing but the raw amino acids that make up protein molecules... nothing else in it. So it wont spike sugar levels and each scoop has .02 calories. The recommended serving for hardcore lifters is 2 scoops (40g). Its advertised saying ''40 grams is equivalent to 224 grams of whey protein isolate!''

Also this shake is ''vegan friendly and gluten free.'' It comes as a shake and pill form.

Would something like that, in powder form, break the fast too?

What about taking the pill form, would that break the fast?

[Turkish Juicer]

]I recently found a shake that has nothing but the raw amino acids that make up protein molecules... nothing else in it. So it wont spike sugar levels [/B]and each scoop has .02 calories. The recommended serving for hardcore lifters is 2 scoops (40g). Its advertised saying ''40 grams is equivalent to 224 grams of whey protein isolate!''

Also this shake is ''vegan friendly and gluten free.'' It comes as a shake and pill form.

Would something like that, in powder form, break the fast too?

What about taking the pill form, would that break the fast?

It will spike insulin , even more so than a whey concentrate that is ''less pure'' per se.

You should spend some time researching the insulin mechanism, it responds not only to CHO but also to amino acids.

[MrMayhem]

AH. Fair enough. Thank u sir and I will take ur advice

[MrMayhem]

Speaking of which, found a good read... Kinda lengthy though.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00267-0143.pdf

[gbrice75]

A protein shake will definitely break your fast and promote insulin secretion. It may not 'spike' per se; but it'll be released and present in the blood stream for sure. Protein has a modest effect on insulin, but an effect nonetheless.

Technically, even taking straight BCAA's would be breaking a fast.

[senior_xj]

Well today is a shining example of what im gettin at; last night was leg day & i started her off with a 30 min run on the treadmill, then into 4 sets of deadlifts, then squats, & the leg press on which i went deep on & burned my calves out with every set.

Now, im so soor that i can barely move & my muscles are screaming for some protein! If u ask me, Int Fasting or not, they should get there much needed protein just like they should on any given post workout day!! Granted i have an 8 hr head start, BUT, im also not eating today until another 8 hrs has passed & i believe that even with a small protein shake, that im still getting the benefits of the weight loss from my fasting diet!!!

Anyone agree??

[MrMayhem]

I feel ur pain brother. I did legs day before yesterday... Im always more sore the 2nd day. Today, I can barely walk. I too am fasting. I been doing my amino acid shake though. Thats y I jumped in when I seen this thread and like u, I still feel Im getting the benefits of both.

I do my shake 6-8 times a day when not fasting, but only 3 when fasting (3hrs after waking, 6 hrs after that, 3 hrs after that).

So I guess, according to this thread, Im not really fasting cuz my shake breaks the fast :'(

[senior_xj]

I feel ur pain brother. I did legs day before yesterday... Im always more sore the 2nd day. Today, I can barely walk. I too am fasting. I been doing my amino acid shake though. Thats y I jumped in when I seen this thread and like u, I still feel Im getting the benefits of both.

I do my shake 6-8 times a day when not fasting, but only 3 when fasting (3hrs after waking, 6 hrs after that, 3 hrs after that).

So I guess, according to this thread, Im not really fasting cuz my shake breaks the fast :'(

Thanks bro & im glad someone whos doing the same thing stepped in to say so!!

My protein drinks are scheduled slightly different tho; days like today where im SO soor, i have a small 10oz 52g shake as its been 10 hrs since my last food intake. Now i will go another 8+ hrs with nothing else but water & the fast will break after my workout which today the gym closes at 7pm so it'll be past that time.

An important note on what i do daily here, i ONLY sometimes have the 10oz protein drink an hr or 2 after awakening, so if im not that soor, then ill sip down some BCAAs.

Im out of some supps & have to order more, so im adding back in , Creatine Mono, Beta-Alanine, & Agmatine, as i already take the following:

OxyElite pro/Alpha T2 x2 daily,
Citrulline Malate 4g's before a workout,
ALCAR 2g morning & 2g mid day,
Green Tea x3 daily,
Green Coffee Beans x3 daily,
Raspberrry Ketones x3 daily,
A ton of Macronutrients/Vitamins upon awakening & before my workout.
(i can give a more detailed list if need be)

Can anyone reccomend a good tasting BCAA drink or even in capsules PLEASE???

[MrMayhem]

its important that I note, on fasting days... I eat NOTHING from wake to bed, except my 3 amino acid shakes and if Im using a fat burner, then of course, I take that.... and lots of water.

Weird thing I notice while Im fasting too is if I lift on a fasting day, I feel stronger and do more. Yet, if I go on a low calorie diet, I feel less motivated after the 2nd or 3rd day. To me, this makes perfect sense, but idk if everyone is like that and of course, I feel stronger and get physically stronger while on a higher calorie diet.... Again, makes perfect sense to me.

Just for some side notes, I wouldnt eat or sleep if I didnt have to. BUT since I have to, I eat only non-GMO, chemical free, 100% organic wholesome foods and go to bed early (as I view sleep time as ''ok lets get this over with.'') Is that weird? lol

For some amino acids, I take humapro. Its not ALL ur essential BCAAs, but its the protein binding and building blocks for protein. Def keeps the soreness down a lil. Its the shake that I was originally talking about above, but for more info on BCAA shakes, hit up the supplement forum

[Turkish Juicer]

I do my shake 6-8 times a day when not fasting, but only 3 when fasting (3hrs after waking, 6 hrs after that, 3 hrs after that).(

Do you eat actual food??

[MrMayhem]

lol yessir 6-8 meals a day and shakes between those meals. So Im either eating or drinking a shake just about every hour.

[Turkish Juicer]

Dipeptides in whey hydrolysate are glucose boosters

Energy drinks and post-workout preparations probably work better when they contain the whey peptides that the Japanese food concern Meiji Seika has been studying: chains of two BCAAs from whey hydrolysate, which make muscle cells absorb more glucose.

Whey hydrolysate contains highly fragmented proteins. The smaller the fragments, the quicker the body can absorb them. In the small intestine there are transport proteins that can absorb chains of two and three amino acids: di- and tripeptides. The same transport proteins are found in many cell types, so that the peptides can be most tissues - including muscle.

Studies show that the BCAAs leucine and isoleucine enhance the muscle cells’ glucose uptake. Do the peptides of BCAAs do the same?

To answer this question the researchers did test-tube experiments with muscle cells, muscle fibres and muscle tissues of rats.

The researchers used enzymes to split whey proteins into dipeptides, and then separated out the fractions. When they introduced the BCAA peptides into test tubes with muscle fibres, together with glucose, they saw that all dipeptides increased the glucose uptake.



The most common dipeptide in whey hydrolysate is leucine-isoleucine, so the researchers continued their experiments with this dipeptide. When the researchers added isoleucine-leucine to a glucose solution, they saw that complete muscle tissue also absorbed more glucose.





The researchers repeated the experiment but added the compound LY294002 to the test tube. LY294002 inhibits P13 kinase, an enzyme that passes on the signals from the insulin and IGF-1 receptor to the cell. The compound neutralised the effect of the dipeptide. That means that the dipeptide imitates and enhances the effect of insulin, according to the researchers.

The Japanese have recently published more about the potential of whey hydrolysate to increase the uptake of glucose by muscle cells. We’ll be writing about these studies soon.

Source: J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2009 Feb;55(1):81-6.

[Turkish Juicer]

Put on weight easily? Casein is better than whey

If you eat whey regularly, your insulin level rises. If you eat casein, it doesn’t. But eating casein does cause your IGF-1 level to rise, write nutritionists at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark, in a soon-to-be-published article in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition. The amount of minerals the proteins contain makes no difference.

The Danes did a trial with about sixty boys aged eight. In an earlier study they discovered that the boys’ insulin level and IGF-1 level rose if they drank milk. In the new study they wanted to determine which component of the milk is responsible for this. Milk contains two kinds of proteins: the small whey proteins and the large casein proteins. Cheese and quark (quark is also cheese) contain more casein.

The researchers got their test subjects to drink a shake every day for a week that contained as much whey or casein as one and a half litres of milk. One group of boys drank a shake containing 11 g of whey protein, the other group drank a shake containing 42 g of casein. The researchers analyzed the boys’ blood before and after the trial. The results are shown below.



When the researchers used statistics to filter out the significant effects from the analyses, they noticed that consuming whey proteins on an empty stomach drove up insulin levels by 21 percent. Casein had no significant effect on the insulin level.

But casein did lead to a rise in the IGF-1 level; a rise of fifteen percent to be exact. Whey consumption had no effect on the IGF-1.

The researchers used both mineral-enriched and low-mineral types of whey and casein for their trial. That’s how they learned that minerals had no effect.

Now, these researchers aren’t sports scientists. They are looking for nutritional factors that determine body height. They think that animal proteins, and especially the proteins found in milk, make children grow taller. But the Danish findings are interesting for athletes as well. No, the 11 g of whey that doesn’t lead to a rise in IGF-1 levels and the 42 g of casein that does do this are of no interest to athletes. Probably 42 g of whey is just as effective as 42 g of casein when it comes to IGF-1. What is interesting, though, is that casein doesn’t cause such a big rise in the insulin level.

If you want to lose weight, or have a tendency to put on weight, a high insulin level first thing in the morning is not a good thing. It makes you feel hungry and encourages the growth of fat rolls. If that’s the case, you may do better to avoid whey as a source of protein.

Source: Eur J Clin Nutr. 2007 May 27. [Epub ahead of print].

ergo-log

[Turkish Juicer]

Leucine increases anabolic effect of post-training meal by 16 percent

A post-training shake containing whey protein and simple carbohydrates builds more muscle protein if you add leucine, a free amino acid. Human biologists at the University of Maastricht in the Netherlands discovered this when they did an experiment with 8 male students.

The researchers got their subjects, who by the way did not normally do weight training, to train their legs three times by doing leg presses and leg extensions. Immediately after the training session they got a beaker containing about 250 ml of a sports drink, half an hour later another one, and half an hour later again another one – and so on, until the subjects had drunk a total of 11 beakers, over a period of 6 hours.

On one occasion the sports drink contained only carbs, on another occasion carbs and whey protein, and on yet another carbs, whey protein and a heavy dose of leucine.



To be more exact: the researchers gave their subjects 3ml sports drink per kg bodyweight, every half hour. So if you weigh 100 kg you’d drink a total of 3.3 litres of sports drink, containing 110 g protein, 53 g leucine and 165 g carbohydrates.

The researchers wanted to know whether leucine added anything when you already provide your muscles with protein and carbs after a training session. And it did make a difference, the researchers found. They took muscle cell samples from their subjects, and measured the muscle protein build-up [fractional synthetic rate] during the first six hours after the training session.



Adding leucine caused a big rise in the insulin level. The figure below shows the total amount of insulin in the blood during the first six hours after the training session.



The amount of leucine the researchers gave their subjects was high, as you can see in the blood sample measurements. The leucine concentration was ten times higher than that of the other amino acids.



"The additional ingestion of free leucine in combination with protein and carbohydrate likely represents an effective strategy to increase muscle anabolism following resistance exercise", the researchers conclude.

The study provides proof of principle, and shows that it’s possible to boost post-training muscle build up if you add leucine to the proteins you consume. The researchers do not specify how much leucine you need to use, although the study suggests that you need to think in terms of big quantities.

...

Source:Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Apr; 288 (4): E645-53.

ergo-log

[MrMayhem]

hmmm interesting studies. I knew some of it already and if u want turk, here in a minute, I can post up my whole diet plan (in another thread of course)

[Turkish Juicer]

hmmm interesting studies. I knew some of it already and if u want turk, here in a minute, I can post up my whole diet plan (in another thread of course)

Do it

[MrMayhem]

Done

http://forums.steroid.com/nutrition-...-critique.html