Testosterone and Fat Loss

[RaginCajun]

Receptors are built into tissues, I just don't get how you can create more receptors.

Like Java mentioned, It is not merely having more receptors, but more like making those receptors express themselves more hence they are more likely to bind with androgen presenting itself.

[Igifuno]

The language used is 'increased / decreased expression' of certain receptor pathways via specific proteins acting as activators/deactivators. I understand that as stating not that the number of physical receptors is changed but that the number of active receptors is what changes. Some are dormant while others are active. Alpha gets deactivated and beta gets activated in greater numbers than would otherwise be the case.

So testosterone would, in that case, not physically increase the number of receptors, but instead increse the number of 'active' receptors? I see..

So with that being said, what is everyone's thoughts on utilizing clen on a bulking cycle? If clen attacks beta receptors, and assuming you could consume the needed calories, could there be benefits in keeping bf% down while increasing LBM. Are there any adverse effects I may be overlooking?

[Igifuno]

.....

[Igifuno]

I reached out to MuscleInk on this subject and he had some very interesting input.. for those of you who may not know, MI is in the medical field and consistently adds valuable points to a wide variety of discussions from a medical perspective, and as far as I'm concerned, is THE MAN with respect to these types of topics...

Here is what he had to say:

MuscleInk: “It’s an interesting topic for discussion. There has been a lot of debate surrounding beta and alpha receptors, distributions, changes with age, activity by lipid enzymes, gender differences and more. Fat storage and loss is regulated by a number of mechanisms. Hormones certainly do play an enormous part in regulating body morphometrics. For example, excess cortisol can compete with testosterone for binding to androgenic, beta, and alpha receptors and affect the rate of fat loss/gain as well as muscle growth/loss. Insulin is another important pathway that regulates lean body mass (and fat). There have been a few theories over the past years about receptor activation and body morphometrics. It's unclear if the number of receptors changes with age and body size (beyond a certain age) or if higher levels of certain hormones (e.g. TESTOSTERONE) leads to more efficient binding of receptors (since higher serum levels of a hormone means more efficient binding kinetics).”

Igifuno: “Assuming that beta receptors (or the number of active beta receptors) are, in fact, increased with elevated testosterone levels, and that clenbuterol attacks beta receptors, do you see any adverse effect in running clen during a bulking cycle in an effort to minimize fat storage with a higher calorie diet and to stay as lean as possible in the process? Obviously, clen curbs the appetite in some, but assuming one could still get the calories down, could it be beneficial or would the additional stimulant on the CNS excessively hinder gains?”

MuscleInk: “I’m curious to know if there is anything more current on the topic. I’ll see what I can find this week in the published medical literature.

You've already touched on one critical factor; clen suppresses appetite. I tried to run phentermine (37.5mg/d) along side of a bulking cycle. I found it very difficult to consume calories beyond my TDEE. The first week was fine, but by the third week, my appetite was very diminished. Pretty much a failed cycle for me to bulk. I eventually dropped the phentermine so my appetite would come back.

The other concern I have with clen and bulking cycles is cardiothoracic function. Clen is known to cause hypertension, tachycardia and bronchiospasms. If one were to use tren or a high dose of testosterone, the anabolics alone would put added stress on the heart and BP. Add clen to that and a novice user could find themselves in trouble. For someone like yourself who is more knowledgeable and would use the compounds appropriately and safely, clen would add some benefit in aiding reduction of bf, provided your appetite wasn’t too suppressed.”

[yannick35]

It depends from person to person back in 1999 there was a guy that did a 400mg testosterone enhantate 8 weeks he was chubby at the end of is cycle he was cut as hell he had a good diet but still.

When i use testosterone even at low dosage 200mg per week i buff out get water bloating even with an AI armidex and later letro. My diet was spot on.

For me i get far better results using tren ace and winstrol V at low dosage with some anavar .

[Igifuno]

It depends from person to person back in 1999 there was a guy that did a 400mg testosterone enhantate 8 weeks he was chubby at the end of is cycle he was cut as hell he had a good diet but still.

When i use testosterone even at low dosage 200mg per week i buff out get water bloating even with an AI armidex and later letro. My diet was spot on.

For me i get far better results using tren ace and winstrol V at low dosage with some anavar.

Help me understand the relevance of your statement with the subject at hand.. You may have better results with certain compounds, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the above. Not trying to be a prick, I'm just interested in this and don't want to miss any good points.

[Igifuno]

I was glad to hear MI actually tried this before (running phentermine on a bulk cycle), but unfortunately the results were not good. So there would definitely be some concern about running clen alongside a bulk (suppressed appetitie and overall cardiothoracic function).

So what about a low dose of clen, would this still be at all beneficial or not enough to notice? I would imagine the benefits, if any, would not be enough to notice.

Does anyone else have any experience doing this? What were the results?

[mockery]

i can run test at high bodyfat, eat in a surplus with cardio 3 x a week and end up 3-4% lower body fat while bulking.

for me test has a huge impact of fat loss. stimulants are scary ill stick to UGL gear.

[Igifuno]

i can run test at high bodyfat, eat in a surplus with cardio 3 x a week and end up 3-4% lower body fat while bulking. for me test has a huge impact of fat loss. stimulants are scary ill stick to UGL gear.

I no longer run any stimulants either as of several weeks ago. I feel like bf is a bit higher, but I feel a lot less jittery and can actually sleep through the night on most nights.

I may consider trying clen on a bulk, but the more input I get, the less likely it sounds that I will be trying it. And I'm not sore how effective, if at all, a low dose would be.

What kind of cardio are you doing when bulking, HIT style? How long are you going for?

[cj111]

Try some T3 on a bulk.. I ran some while trying to cut and all I wanted to do was eat, was bad news

[Revelations]

Try some T3 on a bulk.. I ran some while trying to cut and all I wanted to do was eat, was bad news

Ive been researching and thought about running T3 along with my next Test E cycle. Was curious about if running it with AAS with curve some of it catabolic effects.

[Igifuno]

Try some T3 on a bulk.. I ran some while trying to cut and all I wanted to do was eat, was bad news

Good thought. How common is this? Has anyone else run T3 on a bulk. I know it directly influences your thyroid which controls appetite/metabolism, but can be very catabolic if you're not on cycle. So would running T3 on a bulk hider any possible gains?

[mockery]

I no longer run any stimulants either as of several weeks ago. I feel like bf is a bit higher, but I feel a lot less jittery and can actually sleep through the night on most nights.

I may consider trying clen on a bulk, but the more input I get, the less likely it sounds that I will be trying it. And I'm not sore how effective, if at all, a low dose would be.

What kind of cardio are you doing when bulking, HIT style? How long are you going for?

No i dont do hit, I do morning fasted low intensity intervals for 45 minutes(15 minutes on 3 different machines.) i try and keep my heart rate around 120 as im in my mid thirty's. I do it every other day and soon will be doing it everyday 2x a day.

I dont rate clen, its slightly anabolic in animals but i dont buy into the its anabolic in humans. Much like t3 thermo's and stims are gonna just start burning what it can its not partial to fat or muscle. All the power to people that enjoy clen.

[Java Man]

I reached out to MuscleInk on this subject and he had some very interesting input.. for those of you who may not know, MI is in the medical field and consistently adds valuable points to a wide variety of discussions from a medical perspective, and as far as I'm concerned, is THE MAN with respect to these types of topics...

Here is what he had to say:

MuscleInk: “It’s an interesting topic for discussion. There has been a lot of debate surrounding beta and alpha receptors, distributions, changes with age, activity by lipid enzymes, gender differences and more. Fat storage and loss is regulated by a number of mechanisms. Hormones certainly do play an enormous part in regulating body morphometrics. For example, excess cortisol can compete with testosterone for binding to androgenic, beta, and alpha receptors and affect the rate of fat loss/gain as well as muscle growth/loss. Insulin is another important pathway that regulates lean body mass (and fat). There have been a few theories over the past years about receptor activation and body morphometrics. It's unclear if the number of receptors changes with age and body size (beyond a certain age) or if higher levels of certain hormones (e.g. TESTOSTERONE) leads to more efficient binding of receptors (since higher serum levels of a hormone means more efficient binding kinetics).”

Igifuno: “Assuming that beta receptors (or the number of active beta receptors) are, in fact, increased with elevated testosterone levels, and that clenbuterol attacks beta receptors, do you see any adverse effect in running clen during a bulking cycle in an effort to minimize fat storage with a higher calorie diet and to stay as lean as possible in the process? Obviously, clen curbs the appetite in some, but assuming one could still get the calories down, could it be beneficial or would the additional stimulant on the CNS excessively hinder gains?”

MuscleInk: “I’m curious to know if there is anything more current on the topic. I’ll see what I can find this week in the published medical literature.

You've already touched on one critical factor; clen suppresses appetite. I tried to run phentermine (37.5mg/d) along side of a bulking cycle. I found it very difficult to consume calories beyond my TDEE. The first week was fine, but by the third week, my appetite was very diminished. Pretty much a failed cycle for me to bulk. I eventually dropped the phentermine so my appetite would come back.

The other concern I have with clen and bulking cycles is cardiothoracic function. Clen is known to cause hypertension, tachycardia and bronchiospasms. If one were to use tren or a high dose of testosterone, the anabolics alone would put added stress on the heart and BP. Add clen to that and a novice user could find themselves in trouble. For someone like yourself who is more knowledgeable and would use the compounds appropriately and safely, clen would add some benefit in aiding reduction of bf, provided your appetite wasn’t too suppressed.”

Nice info. Thanks igi and MI.

[Java Man]

I've run short 2wwek on, 2 week off cycles of clen at 120 mics split into 3 daily doses. Did that for 8 weeks. The only thing I noticed was anxiety, energy boost, appetite slightly suppressed, and bp elevated/hear rate increased. Tolerable sides and I had toprol xl to control HR and BP but I just didn't see the fat loss to justify the stress I was placing on my body. I still have 2/3 of the bottle sitting around. probably won't.use it again.

[Igifuno]

I've run short 2wwek on, 2 week off cycles of clen at 120 mics split into 3 daily doses. Did that for 8 weeks. The only thing I noticed was anxiety, energy boost, appetite slightly suppressed, and bp elevated/hear rate increased. Tolerable sides and I had toprol xl to control HR and BP but I just didn't see the fat loss to justify the stress I was placing on my body. I still have 2/3 of the bottle sitting around. probably won't.use it again.

I am not a huge clen fan either, but I did have good luck with fat loss when running it over two weeks and with keto. I don't know that I would run it again for the same reasons you mentioned above.