When to refeed, How often to refeed?

[uhit]

Just wondering how an effective refeed should be done..

Losing 0.8-1lb per week eat eating 1,900 - 2,000 calories daily.
Wondering when is an optimal time to refeed.

As of late feeling weak in the gym, would now be a good time to up the calories to 2,400-2,500 with carbs for the surplus?

[Buster Brown]

You could pick one day a week say Sunday for your re-feed but there really aren't any rules it all comes down to what works for you. When I carb cycle I tend to carb up every 4 days but that's me.

[Khazima]

More to do with preference IMO, Once a week is what most people will generally do, gbrice has an awsome thread on carb cycling just remember to keep your total calories in the deficit you want.

I was cutting on 2300 down to 2000 calories (over 10 weeks) with 1 refeed a week where I would go 500 over maintenance (3000) with as little fat and as many carbs as I could fit in that caloric requirement.

I also based the refeed the day before my 3 hardest days of training, e.g I had a refeed then heavy bench day after that heavy squats then after that heavy OHP, rest, then power/hypertrophy workouts.

I preferred refeeding on a rest day as well since I workout in the mornings and it gives me time for my muscles to suck up the wonderful energy.

[Rida5d]

If u not depleting ur glycogen by a low carb diet u won't need a refeed..
U might need a cheat meal to keep u going on and motivated ..

A refeed is high carbs / less fat to my understanding

[uhit]

Was doing pullups and shoulder press today. Arms have NEVER looked as flat as this even when pumped.

So I decided to keep my fats at 28g, protein at 290g (Had a ton of sandwiches) and carbs to 386g making it a total of 2,988 calories which is nearly 500 above maintenance. So if I was to look at net calories for this week, thats a 2,500 calories deficit which is over 0.5lb of fat in theory.

And I feel terrific and ready for tomorrow.

So a success?

[Khazima]

Was doing pullups and shoulder press today. Arms have NEVER looked as flat as this even when pumped.

So I decided to keep my fats at 28g, protein at 290g (Had a ton of sandwiches) and carbs to 386g making it a total of 2,988 calories which is nearly 500 above maintenance. So if I was to look at net calories for this week, thats a 2,500 calories deficit which is over 0.5lb of fat in theory.

And I feel terrific and ready for tomorrow.

So a success?

Yep

Sounds like you could lower protein and have more carbs every day. How much do you weigh?

What are your daily macros?

[Rida5d]

How can u eat all this protein with only 28 fats only?
No beef , no oil to cook ?
Tuna in brine and egg whites mostly? Lol
Wow man , I find it tough..

[uhit]

How can u eat all this protein with only 28 fats only?
No beef , no oil to cook ?
Tuna in brine and egg whites mostly? Lol
Wow man , I find it tough..

No spray with a george foreman grill + Skinless chicken breast. Plain but I'm used to eating cardboard at this point
B**** to clean after.

[Buster Brown]

Yep Sounds like you could lower protein and have more carbs every day. How much do you weigh? What are your daily macros?

If you lower your protein you will lose muscle! Stop advocating less protein in a cut..... You will lose muscle and who wants to work there ass off for it to lose more then is necessary. His metabolism is soooo high that he could cheat for a day, feel good again and be more productive.

[uhit]

Yep

Sounds like you could lower protein and have more carbs every day. How much do you weigh?

What are your daily macros?

I weigh 171lbs.

Usual macros vary from more or less 50g Fats / 150g Carbs / 240g Protein . So only a daily basis I'm consuming anywhere from 1,900 - 2,000 calories.

I haven't started to incorporate cardio into my plan yet, but if I feel hungry throughout the days I'll probably bump the caloric count to 2,200 and create a 200 calorie deficit from biking

[davidtheman100]

I weigh 171lbs.

Usual macros vary from more or less 50g Fats / 150g Carbs / 240g Protein . So only a daily basis I'm consuming anywhere from 1,900 - 2,000 calories.

I haven't started to incorporate cardio into my plan yet, but if I feel hungry throughout the days I'll probably bump the
caloric count to 2,200 and create a 200 calorie deficit from biking

How tall are you to be cutting at 171 lbs?

[Khazima]

If you lower your protein you will lose muscle! Stop advocating less protein in a cut..... You will lose muscle and who wants to work there ass off for it to lose more then is necessary. His metabolism is soooo high that he could cheat for a day, feel good again and be more productive.

Cheating for a day has many more benefits than just feeling good, one of the main reasons to refeed is to keep your BMR as high as possible and not to let it adapt to less calories. Which is why extreme restriction diets only work for so long.

Protein is way overhyped, and the whole 1.5-2g per lb was initially a marketing scheme and just plain pointless. All the protein your body doesn't utilise is just turned into glucose via glucogenisis, through a more difficult process than it uses carbs.

1-1.5g per lb of LBM is plenty. I opt for 1.5 on a cut for the reasons you've stated.

OP feel free to do your own research, as you can see forums are full of conflicting opinions.

[uhit]

How tall are you to be cutting at 171 lbs?

5'9 @ 14% Body Fat according to some machine at the gym.

Can see outlines of my abs without flexing but they're very faded. I may be over-doing the calorie deficit so I'm leaning toward increasing them to 2,200

[marcus300]

I weigh 171lbs.

Usual macros vary from more or less 50g Fats / 150g Carbs / 240g Protein . So only a daily basis I'm consuming anywhere from 1,900 - 2,000 calories.

I haven't started to incorporate cardio into my plan yet, but if I feel hungry throughout the days I'll probably bump the caloric count to 2,200 and create a 200 calorie deficit from biking

What are your goals?

[uhit]

What are your goals?

To achieve 10-12% (prefer 10%) body fat by Mid Jan. I want a nice foundation in terms of body fat before I do a lean bulk from hopefully Feb - May and then I'll lean out until July. That's the goal.

But in terms of weight goals, I reckon if I can get down to 166/7lbs in 7 weeks, that will be an ideal situation.

[Docd187123]

If you lower your protein you will lose muscle! Stop advocating less protein in a cut..... You will lose muscle and who wants to work there ass off for it to lose more then is necessary. His metabolism is soooo high that he could cheat for a day, feel good again and be more productive.

OP weighs 171lbs and is taking in 290grams of protein. If he loses muscle it certainly won't be due to lack of protein intake. If the 14% BF estimate is accurate, and since it's done with a machine at his gym I suspect it's actually higher, it means he has ~147lbs of lean mass so 290grams of protein comes out to almost 2grams per lb of lean mass. That's excessive protein intake considering he is more than likely deficient in his dietary fat intake.

[Buster Brown]

OP weighs 171lbs and is taking in 290grams of protein. If he loses muscle it certainly won't be due to lack of protein intake. If the 14% BF estimate is accurate, and since it's done with a machine at his gym I suspect it's actually higher, it means he has ~147lbs of lean mass so 290grams of protein comes out to almost 2grams per lb of lean mass. That's excessive protein intake considering he is more than likely deficient in his dietary fat intake.

Like you said "there is more then one way to skin a cat". My real world experience is that higher protein has yielded me better results regardless of the new school of thought that you don't need as much protein. I have tried that approach and if you want to grow you need protein. I don't believe in splitting hairs over which is better 1.00/1.25/1.50/2.00 etc....... If people have that type of time to micro manage there diet then there energy would be spent better in the gym. 2.0 grams is def the max and if not on cycle I am sure a fair amount isn't utilized but when guys are being advised to take in 1 to 1.25 grams on a cut unless they have fantastic genetics will be looking at muscle loss.

[Khazima]

Like you said "there is more then one way to skin a cat". My real world experience is that higher protein has yielded me better results regardless of the new school of thought that you don't need as much protein. I have tried that approach and if you want to grow you need protein. I don't believe in splitting hairs over which is better 1.00/1.25/1.50/2.00 etc....... If people have that type of time to micro manage there diet then there energy would be spent better in the gym. 2.0 grams is def the max and if not on cycle I am sure a fair amount isn't utilized but when guys are being advised to take in 1 to 1.25 grams on a cut unless they have fantastic genetics will be looking at muscle loss.

I just completed a 10 week cut eating on average 1g per lb of LBM, lost no size and gained strength.

[Rida5d]

Like you said "there is more then one way to skin a cat". My real world experience is that higher protein has yielded me better results regardless of the new school of thought that you don't need as much protein. I have tried that approach and if you want to grow you need protein. I don't believe in splitting hairs over which is better 1.00/1.25/1.50/2.00 etc....... If people have that type of time to micro manage there diet then there energy would be spent better in the gym. 2.0 grams is def the max and if not on cycle I am sure a fair amount isn't utilized but when guys are being advised to take in 1 to 1.25 grams on a cut unless they have fantastic genetics will be looking at muscle loss.

If u want to grow u need protein , yes.. but not as much u are suggesting, beside op will be lucky to maintain his muscles as he is on a cut..
As far as I understand it's almost impossible to grow on a cut unless u are approaching some UD2 , which I never tried personally .

1.5 gm per lbm is ok IMO.

Docd knows more about that

[Buster Brown]

I just completed a 10 week cut eating on average 1g per lb of LBM, lost no size and gained strength.

Are you at or beyond your genetic potential or have you reached your genetic potential? I feel if you are beyond your genetic potential then above average protein is required. Congrats on your cut.....i am sure you will find that with every bulk or cut you will do it slightly different then the one before and your opinion will change each time a little bit.

[Buster Brown]

If u want to grow u need protein , yes.. but not as much u are suggesting, beside op will be lucky to maintain his muscles as he is on a cut.. As far as I understand it's almost impossible to grow on a cut unless u are approaching some UD2 , which I never tried personally . 1.5 gm per lbm is ok IMO. Docd knows more about that

1.5 is definitely a decent amount, no doubt. The idea behind a cut is to preserve as much as possible....... Why accept giving up anymore then you have to. This isn't much of a problem when someone is in the high teens but the closer you get to you get to your goal this can definitely be an issue some more then others depending on body type.

[Khazima]

Are you at or beyond your genetic potential or have you reached your genetic potential? I feel if you are beyond your genetic potential then above average protein is required. Congrats on your cut.....i am sure you will find that with every bulk or cut you will do it slightly different then the one before and your opinion will change each time a little bit.

Yeah you're definitely right on that one, i'm not even close so i would imagine it's a lot less of a tedious task maintaining on a cut.

Rida - I watched a video recently on gaining muscle on a cut and its possibilities and something was said about nitrogen balance being the most important thing. I don't think the video was saying you can make incredible gains while in a caloric deficit but the theory was good. If you're interested it's by athlean-x. This isn't my opinion, juts an interesting video i watched.

[Rida5d]

Yeah you're definitely right on that one, i'm not even close so i would imagine it's a lot less of a tedious task maintaining on a cut.

Rida - I watched a video recently on gaining muscle on a cut and its possibilities and something was said about nitrogen balance being the most important thing. I don't think the video was saying you can make incredible gains while in a caloric deficit but the theory was good. If you're interested it's by athlean-x. This isn't my opinion, juts an interesting video i watched.

I ll check that out.. Thnx for that.
Lyle mcdonalds claims u can gain muscle and lose fat by approaching his UD2..
Like I said , I never tried it , but I tend to believe lyle..
Frankly speaking , I think that UD2 is tough for me ,

[Docd187123]

Like you said "there is more then one way to skin a cat". My real world experience is that higher protein has yielded me better results regardless of the new school of thought that you don't need as much protein. I have tried that approach and if you want to grow you need protein. I don't believe in splitting hairs over which is better 1.00/1.25/1.50/2.00 etc....... If people have that type of time to micro manage there diet then there energy would be spent better in the gym. 2.0 grams is def the max and if not on cycle I am sure a fair amount isn't utilized but when guys are being advised to take in 1 to 1.25 grams on a cut unless they have fantastic genetics will be looking at muscle loss.

1.25grams of protein on a cut will not cause a significant decrease in muscle mass unless your training is off. Nobody was splitting hairs over protein intake, it was merely suggested OP can lower his protein intake and possibly make better use of those calories with added fats and carbs.

[Times Roman]

Cheating for a day has many more benefits than just feeling good, one of the main reasons to refeed is to keep your BMR as high as possible and not to let it adapt to less calories. Which is why extreme restriction diets only work for so long.

Protein is way overhyped, and the whole 1.5-2g per lb was initially a marketing scheme and just plain pointless. All the protein your body doesn't utilise is just turned into glucose via glucogenisis, through a more difficult process than it uses carbs.

1-1.5g per lb of LBM is plenty. I opt for 1.5 on a cut for the reasons you've stated.

OP feel free to do your own research, as you can see forums are full of conflicting opinions.

agree. and 1.5 is probably more than anyone here needs. I call it a NTE (not to exceed). on a cut, dosing the correct protein is important. if too much, you are not utilizing as many calories as you think, and can actually weaken yourself in the gym.

The more tightly you control your total cals, especially in a cut, the more tightly you need to control your protein intake.

We've debated this endlessly elsewhere. And I believe the position to be solid.

[uhit]

Some very solid advice I've been given from this thread.
Thanks alot everyone, from now on i'll bump up the calories to 2,200 and incorporate a consistant cardio to assist with the deficit. I will also reduce protein slightly and throw in slightly more carbs pre workout to help out with the workouts.