Avid Lifter with low test, only 19 - Whats going to happen?

[CoreyTampa09]

well I can kinda figure it out by how I appear in the mirror as well as if my jeans loosen a bit and my shirts fit me a bit more full. I dont have a digital camera but when I get to school I will take a pic from then aug 26th and probally a pic once I head back from my fall semester dec 15th. Im going to be lean bulking. Ive been on 1900-2200 this whole summer and have lost a bit of fat while putting on some good size. Come fall I will be consuming 2600-3000 so it wont be to much of a serious bulk but I figure with the shots alot of it that normally wouldve been converted to fat wont be this time around. Ill be taking pretty much no supplements besides the CEE I started last week(I love it) and my fish and flax oil pills with my pro/fat meals.

Its going to be pretty damn hard to take in 2600 cals on just hardboiled eggs,veggies,salad with olive oil,cottage cheese, cafeteria turkey meat,protein whey,tuna and oatmeal. Normally at home it would be 8oz of chicken but now its gunna be something like 10 hardboiled eggs with each meal more than twice a day....barf. But hey I gotta do what I gotta do.I look at it like this from everywhere I heard you will gain wait through TRT, and since ive been restricting cals and im still sitting at 180 and havent been able to budge, there is no way im coming home anything less than maybe a few pennies of 2 bucks.

[zaggahamma]

yes...i wished i had got my BF% b4 starting the TRT...always too scared to hear somebody tell me I'm 20%...DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT...BLHA BLAH BLAH...I'M NOT LISTENING..LOL
I did have it done a few years back and the trainer said 18%, but I think i coersed him into saying that
well, this is your thread corey...so back to you...IMO, the way you described how you lost weight and then got back up to 185 but with the stubborn central fat....I think if you use the prescribed test you will prolly gain a few pounds of Lean and Drop a few pounds of the fat....You could see the weight stay the same like spyke stated because your losing fat but gaining muscle. You'll move the weight upstairs where you want it!.....It is gradual with these replacement doses....but I think that is better for anyone on TRT anyway.
when are you getting your script anyway...i forgot?

[CoreyTampa09]

got it today, im going to the endo for my first 200 mg injection every 2 weeks. I will talk to her about the dosing once a week and a possible anti estrogen becuase personally my tits are big enough lol. I just look at it like this, it seems as if ive been training and battling the bulge handicapped this entire time. Lets see what real damage I can do in the gym and with my mental focus when im just a bit more regular.

[zaggahamma]

got it today, im going to the endo for my first 200 mg injection every 2 weeks. I will talk to her about the dosing once a week and a possible anti estrogen becuase personally my tits are big enough lol. I just look at it like this, it seems as if ive been training and battling the bulge handicapped this entire time. Lets see what real damage I can do in the gym and with my mental focus when im just a bit more regular.

I like your positive attitued bro....same thing happened to me...I was supposed to pick up the script and then make an appt. to have my endo shoot it.....having that shiat in my greedy little low T makin hands wasn't waitin....got my own(not telling you to do this) pins...called my friend and researched hear...gave myself my first shot the next day
since then I used up the whole bottle they never asked where I was...and i had the nerve to call for a refill....i didn't think they would but they said we'll send one refill but you need to make an appt. I did do the follow up bloodwork and had it sent to them in between the two bottles and the results were good(everything was in range-test not too high-something like 550) right where he wants it....so I saved a couple of copays (now are $45
Get with your endo for your first at least tho bro....you might get shakey...just because I'm a loose cannon
We'll be looking for your great results man....Later

[CoreyTampa09]

Dude im not gunna lie I barely understand your post. I think its something like you couldnt wait for your endo to give you the test so you got ur own and did ur own injections.

Im gunna do what she tells me, go for my first shot tommrow ask about anti E-s and also as about switching the dose to 100 every 7 days. Ill keep you all updated.

Also one other thing. Im not too fond of needles at all, i cringe when I get any blood taken, are these needles painful and will I bruise and be in paid for the days to follow or are they ok?

[Spyke]

Yeah I shot myself first time too. As long as you aspirate and dont see blood you are fine.

You will not be in pain for days or anything. Sometimes I feel a little sore around the site but it is way less the DOMS following a hard workout. Injection is basically painless.

If you really hate needles you could ask for a script for androgel 10's. Might even be better then 200mg every 2 weeks.

[zaggahamma]

yeh, that was it...i never wanted to go in for the shots...too easy and i'm not going to wait in lobby every time i need a shot nor can i afford to pay....
man, 23 guage in glutes is all i do and never had any more pain than a little poke like when your a kid gettin a shot...and now that i took the bros advice here and pulled the test out with one syringe then threw that needle a way and replaced with another needle from the other syringe it's even easier....hardly even noticable...cuz the pin gets dull even from going into the vial...you AINT gonna have NO problems with it bro

[CoreyTampa09]

I got shot in the ass today....literally. Well guys I got my needle in the butt and it friggin hurt for a bit but im all good now. I get my next one in 2 weeks from today. She told me the Anti E would counteract the the test and I should not take it. Ill keep all of you guys updated.

[Spyke]

I got shot in the ass today....literally. Well guys I got my needle in the butt and it friggin hurt for a bit but im all good now. I get my next one in 2 weeks from today. She told me the Anti E would counteract the the test and I should not take it. Ill keep all of you guys updated.

Get a new doctor. She is retarded if she actually said that.

[CoreyTampa09]

Spyke dont know if its gunna be that easy. I mean is it normal for all patients on TRT at my age with my bloodwork back to go on an anti E as well? I mean I would conisder getting my own anti E whether its OTC or prescribed but is it all that neccessary.

[zaggahamma]

Corey at that dose, IMO it might not be necessary BUT...that was a dumb thing for her to say because anti E's BOOST testosterone ....arimidex alone can possibly boost test as much as the dose of test you're on. When you go for your next bloodwork make sure you get her to check off estrogen(estradiol) on the paperwork(bloodwork script).
This i would demand....I had to demand it from the endo who wrote my script for test injects....he didn't think it was necessary either....they are partners in our healthcare not OUR bosses.
we'll be looking for your great results...congrats on your first shot!

[perpetualstudent]

Normally I do not throw my two cents into threads... to be honest this is the first time I have ever posted on this site.

However, Corey, I believe that I can offer you a small nugget of scientifically based information that will help you out a bit.

This site is unparalleled in respect to its bulk of information on anabolic steroids geared towards a layman audience. However, there are many posts that contain unsubstantiated opinions on hormonal activity and enzyme kinetics (e.g. half lives, binding affinities, etc.). You need to be able to separate the good advice from the potentially harmful advice.

I am pursuing a doctorate in the medical profession myself. I have a bachelor of science in biology/chemistry, and have already been in grad school for 2 yrs now...

After extensive training in endocrinology and physiology, I can tell you this: When it comes to your own body, you should know as much about your situation as your doctor so that you can anticipate/confirm/reject his reccomendations. Doctors are only human and are capable of giving bad advice.

You will have to get used to reading very complicated and detailed literature if you stick with your current path of education. It is vital. Why not begin right now with this very subject? You should search for peer-reviewed, statistically valid research papers and read about TRT until you want to shoot yourself in the face. There are thousands of articles available through your school library's website, via databases such as PubMed, Ebsco, etc...

The info you find will be current, scientifically tested, and reviewed by dozens of specialists from many universities.

Not to say that this forum is not helpful, the advice you have received on this thread is excellent, especially from Spyke and jpkman. But be wary about what you read from others.

If you are going to be a doctor one day... when it comes to your ballsack, your body, your man-titties, your hormonal profile.... YOU SHOULD SEEK THE TRUTH. You should use this site for general information, but when you see a contradiction between posts the latest professional literature should be the judge.

Here is my nugget:
Aromatase inhibitors, such as Anastrozole and Letrozole, WILL stimulate an increase in serum testosterone levels. I will spare you the details as I have already rambled enough. If you want to read a six-page (.pdf) study on the subject I will email it to you.

Also... definitely look into self-administration. You can save yourself time & money. You can also divide the prescription into weekly does as previously mentioned. Intra-muscular injections are very safe if done correctly. If you need advice on how to do it, let me know. (If you are gonna be a doc... might as well practice on the old injection technique a little.)

As far as the results you are going to see... My Lord, you have no idea. With your anabolic/low fat diet and work ethic... normal to slightly elevated testosterone levels will utterly change your entire body. I would even suggest maybe finding some supplemental test-enanthate to adjust your dosage as you become more educated on sex-hormone physiology and metabolism. One day you will be able to prescribe to yourself. Just please be wary of what you are doing to your liver. NEVER elevate your testosterone levels above normal for long periods of time. No matter what anyone tells you... it CAN kill you. Everybody's liver is different, you might be unlucky and have a weak one.

Sorry for the length. I hope this inspires you to seek medically-oriented knowledge. You have thus far been blessed by posts from knowledgeable people who seem to really be concerned with your successes. Good luck with all of it. In a couple months you will be a happy guy, I have no doubt. Go buy an endocrinology or physiology book and get a head start on your first year of med school. Take it from a 24-yr old who was in your shoes not long ago.

[perpetualstudent]

Please disregard all that you just read in the above post. I can't even spell "recommendations" correctly, so therefore I am worthless. My advice is about as useful to you as a brothel of virgins would be to Richard Simmons.
(female virgins that is)

Gudenite kiynde peepul.

[Spyke]

Please disregard all that you just read in the above post. I can't even spell "recommendations" correctly, so therefore I am worthless. My advice is about as useful to you as a brothel of virgins would be to Richard Simmons.
(female virgins that is)

Gudenite kiynde peepul.

Wierd post....

[Teabagger]

I take particular exception to several areas of his post...He talks alot about his supposed educational credentials, casts doubt on the knowledge of posters here except 2, offers nothing to back up his claim...and his "nuggest" of advice is so well known a 6th grader in sex ed class would probably have figured that out on his own.

Then he posts a second post...wtf was up with that?? He pretty much acted as a parrot here...ignore him...

[Spyke]

The second post contained some great info as well. I would have never guessed that Richard Simmons is not into chicks.

Thanks for the heads up!

[perpetualstudent]

I take particular exception to several areas of his post...He talks alot about his supposed educational credentials, casts doubt on the knowledge of posters here except 2, offers nothing to back up his claim...and his "nuggest" of advice is so well known a 6th grader in sex ed class would probably have figured that out on his own.

Then he posts a second post...wtf was up with that?? He pretty much acted as a parrot here...ignore him...

No offense, but I was not trying to discredit you or anyone else on this thread. The kid has gotten great advice thus far. I was just trying to encourage him to be wary of some of the posters on this site who do not give quality advice. A lot of advice here is excellent (almost everything that comes from long-time members), but some idiots will write anything. In his line of education, he will have access to the latest and best research, and I wanted to encourage him to seek the truth if he ever encountered a discrepancy. I am educated more than most, but just because I am in training to be a doctor does not mean that I am too pompous to acknowledge that there are many members who know a lot more than I do.

My claim about aromatase-inhibition is backed up by dozens of randomized controlled trials conducted with a double blind/placebo design. But that doesn't matter because as you implied, it is pretty much common knowledge on this forum.

To be honest, there is a lot of information on this site dealing with practical advice on how hormones affect your body that is better than what he could find in most research (intensity of side effects, dosage regimens in stacking, etc.). But there is also a lot of detailed, useful information available from medical research on other aspects of hormone therapy. All of us should utilize both. Learning is a life-long process and I am sure you agree.

I assure you that I meant no ill-will with my original post. People who take the time to post good advice help a lot of newcomers to this lifestyle. This site is a beautiful thing that has saved a lot of people from making costly mistakes.

As you can see, I don't post much, and after this response I probably will not post again. Please accept my apology and I will not post/parrot on this thread again. Good luck with everything, Corey and everyone else. Especially you, Teabagger, I was not trying to step on your toes or accuse you of supplying anything other than quality advice. Just warning Corey to watch out for the few bad apples who type bulls$#t.

[Mobligator]

I got shot in the ass today....literally. Well guys I got my needle in the butt and it friggin hurt for a bit but im all good now. I get my next one in 2 weeks from today. She told me the Anti E would counteract the the test and I should not take it. Ill keep all of you guys updated.

Corey, I coudn't pass up replying to this one and I would second what spyke and jpkman told you. However, what I'm about to tell you might sound like B.S. but I assure you it's the honest truth. I have taken shots of T. for over 13 years and I NEVER had one that hurt. Let me repeat that, "NEVER" had one that hurt except for one time when a doctor gave me the shot. I came to the conclusion that he simply didn't know how to give shots. He had me lie down on the table and he just shoved the needle in and it hurt worst than any shot I ever had before ar since. Most of the shots I had during those 13+ years were either given to me by a nurse or my wife and they never hurt one bit. I've also given myself shots, in the thigh and in the left delt and never hurt myself.
When my wife gives them to me she holds the syringe like a dart and injects it like she's throwing a dart and I "never" feel it going in. Sometimes I feel a slight burning sensation when she takes out the needle if she gets in a hurry.
I give myself injections the same way but when I do it in the thigh, I pinch an inch of muscle/flesh and squeeze while darting the needle in quickly. Never hurts!

[CoreyTampa09]

Thanks man, after my 10 week run until this batch runs up ill consider administering the shots myself. But im curious as well, how old were you when you started and explain what happened in the beginning stages. Im curious to see if what im going to go through is going to be similar to others. BTW day 6 is today lol.

[zaggahamma]

Thanks man, after my 10 week run until this batch runs up ill consider administering the shots myself. But im curious as well, how old were you when you started and explain what happened in the beginning stages. Im curious to see if what im going to go through is going to be similar to others. BTW day 6 is today lol.

feelin anything?

[CoreyTampa09]

Well, I can say I feel more rested waking up with 6-8 hours of sleep, but that could be do to the excitement of my first day of class today. I noticed a bit more hair on my hands but thats all for now.

[zaggahamma]

Well, I can say I feel more rested waking up with 6-8 hours of sleep, but that could be do to the excitement of my first day of class today. I noticed a bit more hair on my hands but thats all for now.

lol
oh yeah, forgot to tell you....got to get the hair on my back shaved 3 times since i started...JK

hope you have a good first year....i'm taking online classes again....hopefully i'll do something this semester....me and my wife take the same classes and have the same books and that's all i'm gonna say

[CoreyTampa09]

Actually this is my second year at the University of Tampa. Pre-Med Allied Health for now and eventually I'll be moving on to Physical Therapy. I love it, the only school where you walk into the cafeteria and there are so many girls, 6:1.

[liftin4life]

Keep us posted on how the shots are going. I should be starting very soon.

[CoreyTampa09]

Heres a bit of an update guys...I believe im 34 or 35 days in already..phew 5 weeks already. Ive already had 2 injections...but I fear maybe the second one wasnt injected properly. The pain I felt on the first one was not apparent on the second one, maybe she did it a bit more gently. Another reason why im bringing this up is because I really dont feel much different. I mean Im sure if I really investigated my body I can point out and nitpick small little things, but nothing even slightly dramatic. My overall appearance I dont think has changed much and my diet remains strong. I mean my midsections is leaning out VERYYY littlee but nothing to write off about. My weight has gone up 2-4 pounds or has pretty much stayed the same varying from water weight. My strength has gone up a little but nothing out of this world and nothing I dont think that couldve been attained without the introduction to TRT. Maybe im simply overtraining...you can check out my workout in the workout section or just look through one of my more recent posts. My calories still remain in the 2200-2400 range. Maybe the 200mg every two weeks just isnt enough or maybe it takes longer for it to kick in. Give me some insight here guys....thanks for listening.

[zaggahamma]

hey corey...hope school's going well...the first thing that stands out is when you say that your strength has gone up a little, but nothing out of this world...are you gaining more strength for sure in these last 30 days than you were b4?...example of myself on TRT, I couldn't gain ANY LBM, ANY STRENGTH, OR SHED ANY BF AT ALL....In 5 months, one example...the bench...I only went up 40lbs. on my max...I mean not really out of this world either right...but it's 8lbs. a month to the good and it wasn't happening without TRT FOR SURE and yes, you mentioned doses again...these gains I speak of are on various doses throughout the 5 months including low doses of androgel in the begginning but about 21/2 months in I got on injection and started off immediately with 200mg /wk and went as high as 400mg/wk for a couple weeks...got to go for now...more later

[Teabagger]

Be patient a couple more weeks...but remember I said "frequency" of injection is as if not more important than the dosage? I just don't like the idea of shots every 2 weeks.......take half the dose 1 time per week and you will see different results. They will not be drastic...but noticable. At shots every two weeks, and only 200mg...your levels are probably never going to be stable, and that is counterproductive in and of itself. For results you need stable blood levels of test, otherwise your estro can increase substantially. Good luck...talk with your doc at your next shot....

[CoreyTampa09]

Yeah I will have to be mailed more of those syringes as im at school at they sont carry that size in many locations. I mean lets see 40 pounds on a bench is nothing like im talking about. Maybe im just psyching myself up abit about my reps which is enabling me to lift more. Or it could just be the CEE kicking in.

But prior to TRT my incline dumbell sets looked like this
65x12 70x10 75x6-8
and now its more like this
75x12 80x8-10 856x8

I mean i dont think its anything I couldnt of acheived by myself in a months time. My dumbells did go up as well I think iso curls over precher. Used to start with 35 then 40 than 40 but now im doing 40 40 45

[Spyke]

I agree with teabagger. Sometime bad HRT can be worse then no HRT. It is possible that with every 2 week injections, your levels could be lower the second week then before starting hrt.

My guess is that your dose is too low and every 2 weeks is not enough. Get your levels checked again after 8 weeks of hrt and push for weekly injections.

150mg every week raised my total test roughly 500 points.

[CoreyTampa09]

wow, if mine was raised 500 points total id be sitting around 750-800. Well this vial runs out after 10 weeks, then im sent another 10 week vial and head home for thanksgiving. Im supposed to give my endo a call this weekend and keep her updated. Perhaps she can fax my medical office the new dosing instructions. I doubt it though without new bloodwork.

[CoreyTampa09]

Guys ive been doing more and more reading on TRT and im debating if whether I made the wrong decision or not. I mean 277 or whatever it was is low I know...but maybe I didnt go through enough tests to determine if I was suitable for it. I mean I had alot of bloodwork,brain scans etc etc but I still dont know. I dont if what ive been reading is correct but I heard that when im on 100mg a week for an extended period of time my natural production begins to shut down. I can just be freaking out about nothing as my endo has assured me numerous times that I can come off TRT with no harm done. Basically guys im just looking for some reassurance here as im probally not seeing muich results, and the fact that later down the road I will be ok, and kids wont be a problem. Well theres my mini rant..talk to you all later.

[zaggahamma]

Guys ive been doing more and more reading on TRT and im debating if whether I made the wrong decision or not. I mean 277 or whatever it was is low I know...but maybe I didnt go through enough tests to determine if I was suitable for it. I mean I had alot of bloodwork,brain scans etc etc but I still dont know. I dont if what ive been reading is correct but I heard that when im on 100mg a week for an extended period of time my natural production begins to shut down. I can just be freaking out about nothing as my endo has assured me numerous times that I can come off TRT with no harm done. Basically guys im just looking for some reassurance here as im probally not seeing muich results, and the fact that later down the road I will be ok, and kids wont be a problem. Well theres my mini rant..talk to you all later.

No man, you got logical concerns and conflicts in your research vs. what your doc is telling you (see bold).
I was told that kids could be a concern but like I said b4 ALREADY GOT A BROOD so wasn't conerned and didn't have the same thought pattern as a young bro like yourself...either way you're only a little over a month in so you still have time to keep researching and testing and deciding what's best for you. You only had the one testosterone blood test b4 or how many?
talk later

[CoreyTampa09]

I had a basic bloodword done, and then a furthur analysis.

[Spyke]

Corey, I only want to help you here so I am gonna give it to you straight.

#1 The way you are going about your HRT program is totally half assed IMO. Going in for shots every 2 weeks is a major red flag in the HRT world. You need weekly injections. Your dosing seems low. She does not have you on any anti e or hcg which is just as important as test in a hrt program.

#2 Even on HRT fat loss and muscle gains do not happen overnight. You need to give it some time and still be on a solid weight lifting program and have a clean diet. I think you are expecting too much too soon. Even after a couple weeks on a good HRT program you may not notice much, you have been on a really crappy program for a few weeks. No wonder you have not seen much.

#3 Yes being on test for any length of time WILL shut you down. NO EXCEPTIONS. HRT for people like you and me is for life so it really does not matter. It is alot like a diabetic being on insulin for life, but we only inject once a week. HRT may or may not cause fertility problems. Have a few loads kept in the freezer at your doc just to be safe.

[CoreyTampa09]

I dont think im on HRT but I think its TRT. I dont know the actual difference maybe just that my total test was low? I will talk to her about anti e's and hcg when I call her in a few days.

[zaggahamma]

In your case HRT and TRT are the same....H meaning hormone and T meaning testosterone

[Spyke]

Aorund here we interchange those terms. Basically hrt leaves the door open to include things like hgh in the program.

I would not waste any more time with that doc. Dump her and go with Oasis or Swale or someone who REALLY knows this stuff. Why even ask her about anti e again? Isnt she the one that said they counteract the test? WTF?

[zaggahamma]

Oasis is out for Corey I believe cuz his age (gotta be 30)...don't know about Swale...

[liftin4life]

Keep us posted on your situation, Corey. I believe you're familiar with mine already and I know Spyke and Jpkman are.

I go to the endocrinologist Wednesday and will hopefully be going on TRT and possibly HCG ...depending. I've had most levels tested 3 times and the results have been consistent.

SHBG...mid to low range of normal
LH.. low-normal
TSH...mid-normal
FSH...low-normal
E2...mid-normal
Prolactin...normal (lower 1/3)
***Testosterone : Total 51ng/dl Free: 11ng/dl (MORNING level) evening level was 44ng/dl total.

MRI revealved a pituitary tumor not treatable with medication (as it is not prolactin based...CAB or bromo won't work). Surgery/radiation is a decision made over time based on MRI observation. At the tumor's current size there is no rush to operate.

Wish me luck, guys. I'm hoping for some HCG along with Test Cyp or Enth. With my levels being this low at age 25, the gel is certainly not strong enough at a safe dosage...and gel is a pain in the a$$ anyway.

As of now....Tera Patrick and Jenna Jameson can't even get me 10% turned on. So...this doc better give me something ASAP!

[ironaddict69]

yeah i know how that feels, i was practically in the same boat as you. my doc was generous he gaveme the option for 300 mg a week, arimidex , hcg , and cabergoline to lower my prolactin(the sides suck) and thyroid armour. to be honest its my 5th week of the Cyp, and yeah my levels are high but it still hasnt kicked in for me...so be patient, just dont expect like a week after ur shot to be back where you used to be. if u are expecting that and if i could do it over i would either take some D-bol for the first couple weeks...6 actually, or do the ED injects with prop...untill week 7 or 8