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08-05-2006, 01:24 PM #1
UPDATE 8/17- Avid Lifter with low test, only 19 - Whats going to happen?
UPDATE
Hey guys. Ill try to sum this up so you guys can offer some advice, help or things I should be looking for in the future. Heres the storyy....
I was always a chunky kid but never stopped me from playing sports and such. Yes I ate horribly as a child and yes it can to the point where I knew I had to do something. At age 16 going into my junior year I knew I had to do something. I was only 5'6 215 and extremely overweight. I had a 38 inch waist and tits larger than most females. Without any knowledge I did the more sensible things. No more night eating, no junk food, salads, chicken, rice. By the beginning of Junior year and 6 months later I got down to a scrawny but yet still soft 165, 5'10. My confidence was sky high and I enjoyed the last 2 years of my HS life to the fullest, it was never a better time. At around 17 1/2 I started lifting. It was the time when me and my four best friends decided to get big. Little by little one dwindled off and I remained becoming more knowledgabe about diet, training and considered it my carreer I loved it so much. It became my job, I realized I never wanted to become the fat out of shape kid I was so I maintained a great diet with the help of this site, running and lifting 6 days a week. I now stand at 5'11, 185 and much much stronger from where I started, without slim to none bodyhair. Except one thing didnt match up. My strength didnt match up to my body. It just didnt make sense, My diet is remarkable im doing hours of cardio a day with balanced lifting but yet, I cant shed this feminine fat around the parts of my body. I screw up one night and im set back for weeks. Then I noticed a change in my mood and my parents and friends can also sense it as well. My personality is crazy one with complete randomness, sparatic outbursts and just anything to get somebody to laugh. But it intensfied, I noticed I just wasnt the same. With all of the knowledge I gained from this site I knew there had to be something wrong with me and my body. I put so much effort into it and Im just not achieving the results I should be getting.So I got some bloodwork done and low and behold my testosterone levels were very low. Then it struck me, i did some research and everything that Hypogondasm describes is me. I got referred to an endocrinologist and just a few days ago I had more extensive blood work done to see whats the problem. My endocrinologist said I might have to go on TRT or some type of testosterone or hormone replacement to get me back to normal. Quite frankly im extatic, I cant wait to see the difference that are going to occur. I feel as if Ive been living and battling the bulge handicapped for many years now, and finally want to see how life is going to be with normal test levels.
Now heres my question guys. With my age and avid lifting and diet and as a devoted college student studying pre-med, what realistic changes can I possibly expect from all of this. Will it be dramatic, slight or nothing at all.
Thank You all for your time and help and hope to read what all of you vets have to say.Last edited by CoreyTampa09; 08-17-2006 at 03:21 PM.
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08-05-2006, 02:29 PM #2
First of all...CONGRATS...on the changes you made already even with having the low hormone levels...I can relate to a point cept i'm almost twice your age...I probably battled with low T for a long time without knowing...so consider yourself lucky that you found out now and smart for doing something about it. I sounds like you have all your ducks in a row already and you just need a little help with this minor set back just like any other health problem someone might encounter.
I think you will definately have dramatic results and feel better and enjoy the bestest health if that's a word...LOL
wish u the best
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08-05-2006, 05:05 PM #3
Thank you very much. When you found out and finally got tested for low test. How did they start you up, and if I have an option on which way to take test which would you reccomend. Will acne, hairloss and infertility be an issue? If so Im not going to take a chance and will head to the sperm back immediately
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08-05-2006, 07:17 PM #4Originally Posted by CoreyTampa09
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08-06-2006, 09:24 AM #5Associate Member
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Hey Corey. I am 34 and I think I was in the same boat as you when younger but just didn't know it. I could literally go a month without shaving and just grow hair on my chin. Was always tired, cranky and my skin just didn't look like a man's skin, if you know what I mean.
When I got back into lifting a couple years ago I started hearing about test levels etc and about 6 months ago I got tested. I was real low. Now I am on 150mg test cyp each week. I have lost alot of fat and packed on some nice muscle too. Getting close to actually being able to grow a beard (if I wanted one). Sex drive is amazing and I have a little "edge" to my personallity after years of being way too laid back.
Everything I read says TRT will not make you infertile. But at your age having a couple deposits at the sperm bank as an insurance policy may not be a bad idea. I have a vasectomy so this was never an issue. Dont worry about the sides too much.
Your doc should have you on weekly injections. (my first endo wanted me on 150mg of enth every 3 weeks!) and be willing to add things like hcg and arimidex to the program. If not find a different doc or use Oasis! It is going to be fine for you. Stay on this site and you will learn a ton. HRT is a pain in the ass at first but after a while it is no big deal and the benefits far outweigh the negatives.
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08-06-2006, 01:20 PM #6
Wow thank you Spyke. The one thing that is going to be a potential problem for me in the near future is that Im leaving to go back to college on the 23rd. My bloodwork should come in by either monday or tuesday and then my endo is going on vacation for a week, but most likely I will start before then. Im hoping I will not be put on the androgel as I hear it isnt as effective. But if she sends me with a supply of the shots that will last me to thanksgiving it could defintaley work.
About my personality I wouldnt say Im laid back, im quite eccentric and actually known for my spontaenity (bad spelling) among all my friends. Im the first one in the group to get up and do something crazy. But I can definately agree with my agression and quick outbursts. Yeah I mean man skin...I guess I lack it if your talking about scruff becuase god knows I only have to shave every other thursday for the weekend when I go out.
About the fat loss, im curious if you noticed it around all the feminie spots, the spots that kinda give you a womans shape, lower love handles, lower gut, chest and lower back. Basically when all the fat went away did you get a more V shaped man like body. Becuase this is my downfall. Im pretty darn strong I think but My V is so overshadowed by my lower fat deposits which to many arent that bad, but to me, you can imagine is horrible. Im currently a 33/34 inch waist and hoping when I start getting these shots and hitting the gym even harder I can actually attain a lead midection as well as a more lean overall physique.
Thank you Spyke for your input as you seem very enthusiastic about this whole procedure.
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08-06-2006, 02:05 PM #7Associate Member
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My fat areas were pretty much the belly and love handles. I wouldn't say I had a female shape just not much of a V shape.
It takes some time to work all this out. Dont give up. I went to 3 docs before finding one who knows this stuff. I would say run away from any doc who wants to put you on androgel 5's or injections less then once a week.
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08-06-2006, 04:13 PM #8
I see. Well Its going to be tough considering the circumstances. These injections. I know this depends on everyones test levels, but average how much and how often does one do these injections for how long. Do you feel the therapy helped get rid of your deposits?
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08-06-2006, 05:06 PM #9Associate Member
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A typical HRT program seems to be between 100-200mg of test per week. They are done every week of your life until the put you in the ground. True HRT is not cycled. Dont let this scare you. At this point it takes me more time to brush my teeth then to do my once a week injection.
I have lost fat and gained muscle and I am alot happier with how I look. But I still have a way to go. HRT is not magic, so diet and workouts are still the most important thing.
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08-06-2006, 05:09 PM #10Associate Member
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BTW what were your levels?
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08-06-2006, 07:05 PM #11
Well I didnt get the full results back yet from my Endo, but the bloodwork that I got done which revealed I had low test said I had 34 test free when the normal range was 50-210. Thats where further tests were needed. Ill have my bloodwork for you either tommrow or tuesday.
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08-07-2006, 09:19 AM #12
Great, got the bloodwork back and my endo said its still inclusive. She said shes almost 90percent sure its not testicular. Now I have to get a prescription to get an MRI for my head, take more bloodwork tommrow to check out the chromosomes and also give a sperm sample. This just absolutely sucks.
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08-07-2006, 11:27 AM #13
i did the mri...they're just checkin to see if pituitary is fine...i didn't have to offer up any tadpoles...anybody know sup with that?
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08-07-2006, 11:29 AM #14Originally Posted by jpkman
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08-07-2006, 11:40 AM #15Originally Posted by Ufa
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08-07-2006, 01:12 PM #16
Yeah I dont know either. If im guessing correctly or just basically understanding what Ive been reading on this, more than likely I have secondarm hypondasm. Of course other things can attribute to this that later tests might reveal, but this is what Im going on for now.
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08-17-2006, 03:24 PM #17
Well my MRI on my pituitary went fine thank god. I also got my revised blood work back and here it is.
FSH - 2.0
LH - 2.2
Total Testosterone - 282
Free Testosterone
Test% Free - 1.7
Testosterone Free - 50.5
With me saying ok I am going to be going on Test shots at 200mg for 10 weeks. Do you think this is a good decision or should have I went with the gel or nothing at all. I heard the gel is worse with hairloss.
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08-17-2006, 03:30 PM #18Originally Posted by CoreyTampa09
go over 200. Shots are best. Gel's aromatize into estrogen. You
should feel better almost instantly.
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08-17-2006, 03:41 PM #19
no, 200 every 2 weeks. She said it will bring me into the middle range. On another forum they told me bad bad bad, but I dont see how anything too bad can come out of this.
Ufa, what do you think I can expect from this physically and mentally. Will this help me achieve a better physique over all as I continually bust my ass if youve read the 1st message in this post. Im quite excited actually to feel a change in my life.
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08-17-2006, 03:44 PM #20Associate Member
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Injectable test can and will aromatize into estrogen too. Your doc should be willing to give you something like arimidex if it becomes an issue for you. 200mg ew is a pretty big starting dose for HRT. If it is every 2 weeks then that is not good. You would be better off doing 100mg per week so your levels stay more even. Keep in mind the half lfe for injectable test is only like 7 days or so.
What happens after 10 weeks? Are the gonna run labs again and make changes as needed?
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08-17-2006, 03:45 PM #21Associate Member
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Corey are you doing the injections yourself?
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08-17-2006, 03:49 PM #22
After 10 weeks, I will probally go for more bloodwork and see where I stand. Im getting the prescription for the test and syringes. Either I can do it myself or go to my school nurse and they will probally give it to me.
What and how would Arimidex benefit me?
200 she said would bring me into the middle of normal range
If I were to do 100 a week, would I be able to control that myself?
Thank you for posting in my thread Spyke and everyone else. Im kinda nervous about all of this and want to make sure im not destroying my body.
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08-17-2006, 04:59 PM #23Associate Member
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If you are doing this yourself, just shoot 100mg per week. I just go to Walgreens and buy syringes. No script needed for 20 or less at one time. They are dirt cheap too. Trust me this would be much better and you are not really going against the dr's wishes.
There is no way for her to know where 100 mg per week will bring you. Everyone is different and that is why they do labs at 10 weeks. Most hrt docs will try to take you to the upper quarter of normal not the middle. It is important that she treat the patient and not just the numbers.
The body does convert test into estrogen, so as your test levels go up so will your estrogen. Arimidex and other anti estrogen drugs control this so you don't start to retain water and grow breasts. Also after about 10 weeks your nuts will shrink. She should be willing to add in some hcg to keep them nice and plump.
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08-17-2006, 06:24 PM #24
Well do I ask her for the anti estrogen or can I pick that up over the counter myself?
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08-17-2006, 07:51 PM #25Associate Member
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you can ask her or just click on the word estrogen in your post
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08-18-2006, 06:37 AM #26
Corey, let us know what your endo says or does when you inquire about the estrogen. My doc would only reccomend an over the counter estro blocker even with my estro levels going thru the roof on blood work he ordered.
And while I'm at it...anybody else have gotten a prescription from their regular family, endo, uro for 'dex? or did you have to go through a internet doctor?
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08-19-2006, 01:25 AM #27
Corey
Sorry I have not replied sooner, I invited you to pm me, I got it, and then have been pretty busy...again sorry bro. I have read the posts from Spyke, Jpkman and some of the others and they are giving you good advice. I will just reinforce what they have already said and maybe add some.
Acne: you may or may not have some...its different for everyone, but personal hygiene is even more important when you're taking test. The test will increase the amount of oil your glands produce so you have to keep your skin clean. I would shower 2 times per day, in the am and then in the pm. Keep your face clean and if you have a habit of touching your face with your hands...stop it...your hand are filthy. Otherwise you probably won't have an issue and if you do, over the counter topicals usually handle it.
Hair loss: Won't happen...from the test...so forget about it.
Liver: Everything we put in our bodies passes through our liver, it is a master filter. The test will put some additional stress on your liver, soooo....if you drink alcohol...stop. At a minimum restrict your intake to a couple of beers per week. If you drink alot, regularly, like most college kids do you're asking for serious trouble with your liver. Recreational drugs....no no, nada, stop...period. We all get sore from working out, or have an injury from lifting or playing....do not take the NSAID's (ibuprophen, naprosyn, etc...) on a regular basis. Only take them if you are seriously hurting and can't sleep or something like that. They are rough on the liver, as well as tylenol.
Diet: Sounds like you're up on this. Test can cause an increase in LDL therefore watch the fats closely. Drink lots of water for the kidneys, and keep the sodium low because of water retention from test.
Injection or Gel: Personal preferance only. The gel is applied 1x per day. As the guys said, injections are best 1x weekly. If the doc prescribes 200mg 1x every 2 weeks, divide that into 100mg injections 1x per week. If you choose not to shoot yourself...at least have them teach you how and do it yourself every so often...you may find times when you can't get to the nurse and you don't want to screw with the schedule...consistency is very important in timing as well.
Fertility: Some say long term TRT will eventually make you sterile. Actually high doses of test is what they are experimenting with as a male contraceptive. At any rate, many TRT docs will have young guys that may want to have children in the future to take a break from test every 5 to 6 months for a month to six weeks. Do alot of your own research and draw a conclusion. But as was mentioned....making a deposit at a sperm bank is not a bad idea for a young guy...I would...if I didn't already have one daughter in college, (bleeding me dry) and my son getting ready to got to college next year!!
Physical effects: They will be good....hell...they will be great!! You'll gain strength, increase mass, decrease body fat, and have hard ons that at cat couldn't scratch It'll all be good and you'll be very happy. Test can increase your blood pressure, so monitor that cause your BP can be dangerously high and you won't know it without taking a reading.
Prostate gland: Normally you are too young to have this checked, but with test it is a necessary evil. Have the digital (finger up the butt) and the PSA (bloodtest) at least annual. If you ever notice your pee stream is getting weak, or you have to go alot, but don't pee that much out, or it is painful when you pee or cum, have it checked immediatley. Also lower back pain can be an indicator of an enlarged prostate as well. It is almost always what is called benign prostate enlargement and is no biggie and can be treated but you also want to be sure that you're not the one in like 100,000 guys under 30 that get prostate cancer. Caught early it is almost always curable. Don't worry about it...just be aware.
Mental effects: These will be more subtle, but generally people report a better sense of well being, better concentration, memory, etc...Roid rage is a myth in my opinion. If you are predisposed to be an asshole...you'll become a bigger asshole. If you're laid back, you'll still be laid back but maybe a little more aggressive...not in a bad way...just a manly way.
Additional medications: Wait for your 10 week follow up labs. Make sure your doc is not just getting your test levels...get your estradoil as well. It may not become an issue, even us men need estrogen, but if it does become an issue your doc and prescribe for it. Nut shrinkage is gonna happen. The use of HCG is only a temporary fix because with long term use it stops being effective. So just get used to having small balls...your sack doesn't shrink, just the balls. No biggie...they will just be easier for a chick to fit in her mouth!! (Damn I should remember how old you are...sorry...just trying to keep things light.)
Research: Very important to do for yourself. Remember...you are responsible for the quality of care and treatment you receive, and by educating yourself throughly, you can be more assured you're a partner in your own health care. This site and board are great resources....read, read, and read. Then read some more to keep up with new stuff that is happening.
Sidenote: If you choose to inject yourself do it exactly like they teach you. Do not ever, and I mean ever, take a short cut in the process to save a second or two. Prepare the injection exactly as instructed, prepare the injection site exactly as they instruct, inject only in the areas they specify, and always, always aspirate . Then properly dispose of the needle in an approved sharps container properly marked as biohazard.
OK young man, this post is long enough as it is. Hope this has helped answer some of your questions and eased some of your fears. Keep us all posted because each of us here do care....Good luck...happy growing.
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08-19-2006, 06:06 AM #28Originally Posted by Teabagger
Best of luck Corey....as you can see you got ppl here that care...be hearing from you.
jpkman
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08-19-2006, 10:14 AM #29Originally Posted by jpkman
an aromatase inhibitor. They had to perscribe it. When it ran out
I asked my Reg Doc for a 90 day with 3 refils. No problem.
Dosage 1 mg per day. However, now it's .5. Somehow I think the
Deca has an influence by decreasing test. My E-2 was only 15.
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08-19-2006, 10:17 AM #30
PS. They perscribed some funky stuff first. chryslin (spelling)
tossed the crap.
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08-19-2006, 01:07 PM #31
i get new bloodwork soon....it's going to refelct being on test 200mg/EW and deca 150mg/EW....and i'll post test and estro levels here or a new post...i am very curious of the results as first time using deca
I checked my insurance/prescrip coverage...if i can get 'dex prescribed...CHEAP!
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08-19-2006, 01:37 PM #32
Mine was only about thirty bucks for 90 pills. Saved six or seven hundred
dollars. I don't think you are going to need dex because of the Deca , it
will zap your test levels down to about 500 area. You won't have the
extreme test levels aromatazing into estro. I could be wrong but seriously
has that ever been the case. ha! ha!
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08-19-2006, 02:41 PM #33Originally Posted by Ufa
they don't let just anybody open their own lab
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08-20-2006, 09:16 AM #34Originally Posted by CoreyTampa09
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08-20-2006, 12:57 PM #35
This is a question that I dont know if you guys will be able to answer but Ill throw it out there anyway. My body sucks at processing foods. It seems as if when I eat a meal that is slightly off that isnt even horribly out of my macros my body freaks out and puts on weight like its crazy. With these test injections will my body be able not to take everythng and covert it to fat or will I have a tad more leadway in putting on LBM.
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08-20-2006, 03:18 PM #36
Testosterone is supposed to play a big role in the distribution of central fat and metabolism.
You just seem to be one of the many folks with the metabolism that doesn't allow for too many of these off diet days. Keep weaning yourself towards a tighter diet in addition to your hormone replacement I would be looking for some great results.
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08-20-2006, 08:38 PM #37
Awsome man I cant wait! Finally maybe I will lose that bit of a girlish figure with my little lovehandles and back fat that makes me look like I have an ennormous ass.
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08-21-2006, 05:26 AM #38
We can tell you are anxious to start your therapy...I have only been on TRT for around 4 months now...diet still not in check, so I still battle with a similar problem you keep mentioning with the centralized fat...but I've been able to add strenghth and LBM....MY OWN FAULT with the ab/oblique area....but if you're 90% clean, then you're ahead of me, but still room to improve.
Always improve, always add weight, you'll do fine.
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08-21-2006, 01:27 PM #39
Yeah my diet is spot on. I eat 49 meals a week, 3 are bad and one meal i know i shouldnt do this is replaced by 3-5 alcoholic drinks.
At school its more disgusting to keep the diet in check but easier with the infiniite amt of egg whites, cottage cheese and turkey deli meat. Will I be gaining a significant amt of weight, and where at most? I dont know if I want to gain so much weight considering outfitting clothes is not an option lol.
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08-21-2006, 03:17 PM #40Associate Member
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Corey is there a health center at your school where you could get you BF% right now? I mean a place where a professional will measure it.
I would love to see exactly how it changes in the next 4 -6 months. Scales wont really tell us much. So if you loose 10lbs of fat and gain 10lbs of muscle you wont really know exactly how you did.
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