What happened to ***** ?

[rockbottom]

nothing wrong with face to face..

there are many docs that will open up clincs... no issues..

On that note, if you're willing to travel or are in the area I've heard that Dr.John Crisler, DO, at this clinic is the best in the hrt/bodybuilding field. Unfortunately, he's in Lansing Michigan, which is near nothing, and most sane people will have absolutely no reason to visit other than stopping by the "man hole" (which nickname kind of makes me hesitant to enter . . . ). www. allthingsmale. com

I'm really starting to think, however, that it's actually more responsible (healthwise) to buy from a country with an FDA analogue that monitors hormone purity and quality standards.

[Jack Rabbit Slim]

Agreed.

They will go away. The new rule is face-to-face.

They may have a harder time getting business from state to state, but they will not go away completly. There is too much money to make in this industry. Besides There is at least one clinic in each state. I didn't think there was one in my state but after I googled, that brought up 4 of them. If they want face to face, I ll drive my ass down to Florida and visit family and see the "Doc" all in one trip, If thats what it takes.

[Hedo]

My whole thing is simple. If I'm going the black market way, than fine. I KNOW that's where I'm going. In this instance, I thought this was legal, so to find out I was duped just makes things worse.

Just incase I reccomend everyone who used the "thought to be legal" HRT route to place fraud alerts on your credit reports. Awful personal information had to be passed over so you never know what might happen. The old Desert Pond personnel are criminals you know.

I know it seems like I'm whining like a 340 pound bitch girl I'm just ticked. Thought I had a better route than my docs 1 shot a month plan. Haven't felt this good in years and shudder at the thought of losing it. Kinda like being kicked in the balls.

This is good advice. Just got a collection letter from someone who referenced the "hole in the desert" as their client and they are trying to collect money for lab work.

I called the lab and they said they have already been paid. My credit card was already billed for the tests over 6 mos. ago. This collection comapny says they were working for "the hole in the ground". Did a little digging and the collection company is a "caterer" in Utah.

At the very least change your credit cards if they had them and get the credit monitoring service. I reported these guys to the consumer protection ***t. in Fla. but who knows if it will stop this scam.

[Ntpadude]

Fair question - For the same reason I started this whole process in the first place: very low test. Bodybuilding was always a secondary goal (albeit a close second) to being able to think, get out of bed in the a.m., and have a healthy marriage.

I'm worried about the cream b/c it may not be enough. For example, my dad had levels over 1000 (naturally) at 50. My brother is at 900 (naturally) at 49. I'm below 400 at 33.

So, the bottom line is, it's a medical issue. Still, I was hoping for better gains.

Below 400?? My doctor wont prescribe until you are below 300, I was at 225 before I ever took my first testosterone treatment so I am not low because of past steroid use , actually car accident and head injury and concussion resulted in a damaged HTPA in my head thus making me a text book example of someone needing HRT/TRT.

I think one thing causing doctors troubles is they are liberalizing requirements. Some will prescribe testosterone simply because at 33 years old you have 33 year old's level of testosterone and not that of a 19 year old. For me I am 41 with natural levels of a 75 year old and low enough to cause health damage if I dont lift them up. I generally take 1.25 CC every 2 weeks and I can say, side effect is, YES I do get results working out in the gym where obviously being super deficient in testosterone would not allow me to get any results.

Ironically when they first put me on TRT, lets say I lost my fear of the needle and testosterone so I supplimented my bonafide prescription with some black market testosterone and raised the bar when I could as now I can go 5 months between monitoring blood tests and to be honest, I got "some" side effects but really didnt grow any more at all then at levels intended to emulate natural blood levels of about 800/900 (top of normal), however when I made the decision to stop supplementing and just stick to the TRT plan the doctor placed for me and then also subsequently, they found excess estrogen and I was 10% above top bar for red and white blood cell count (blood getting too thick), the muscle gained on the high doses of testosterone was lost incredibly fast, dropped 15 lbs in 2 months. Now after being back on and behaving myself and sticking to the plan, muscle memory has kicked in, sex drive is now at its best instead of being kinda bad actually with the excessive test doses.

Ironically at more natural TRT doctor suggested doses, muscle gained isnt so fast to be lost as was muscle gained on excessively high doses. This leads me to believe, everyone taking 500 mgs, 600 mgs, 750, 1000 and so on are not really growing significantly faster at all as compared to just doing 150 to 200 mg doses but your gains are incredibly more keepable when off cycle. You hardly shrink down at all when growing muscle under lower more moderate doses and you dont have a nightmare trying to control gyno and excessive estrogen that inhibits off cycle recovery when you go off. I know I came in an bragged about not getting gyno from high doses, well lets say after a year of doing 500 to 700 mg, before you know it, the nipples started producing milk or fluid, etc when squeezed and even with all the anti-estrogens, nolva, etc it took 6 months for my nipples to stop lactating, although after confessing my sins to doctor, he says I dont have enough breast tissue growth to worry about, it doesnt show at all actually but now I know to keep the doses low and follow doctor's advice.