hormone imbalance new

**blastedlooger** · 12-30-2008, 02:02 AM

Hey guys. I'm 19 ,don't use steroids or plan to but I figured you all would be the most knowledgeable about my problem because you deal with it all the time. I have been very fatigued lately making me unable to lift weights, concentrate, memory and it started affecting my college so I went to the doctor. I got blood tested and they called back told me I had recently had mono and to my surprise I had high estrogen levels, which means I probably have lower test levels too. Also said I may have a thyroid problem. It was only the physician's assistant on the phone.

I've read everything I can about it and go in on friday to see the exact levels and get on something to fix the problem.

I wanted to know if there should be something that can fix this that won't screw up my bodies natural ability to balance itself out. I know this ability isn't working too great obviously but I don't want to be on meds my whole life. What do you think a doc will do for higher estrogen levels. I know a quite a bit about the subject but no anywhere near what you all know. I've only read about all the possibilities for about a day or two on the internet. I know what my ratio and levels should look like when I see my blood results.

I'm glad I got this figured out but also not glad I have it. It's like I've been working out on an empty tank for so long. I put a lot of effort into it for not as good of results as other people might get. I've been lifting since 7th grade and I'm a freshman in college.

Do you guys think I will feel a lot better when I get this ratio fixed and levels normalized? I'm excited to finally possibly get to lift with some energy and better results. I have gotten some results, I bench 265 (I'm 5'11 180lbs)but think it could have been so much better and I could have had that six pack by now. I'm not sure how bad my ratios could be. If I have gyno it's not noticeable although during puberty I got lumps under my nipples which aren't visible but it's still more tender than long ago.

Thanks! Really appreciate the help and sorry for the long post.

**BigDog225** · 12-30-2008, 08:07 AM

It all depends on what the labs show. You may have high estrogen and okay test. If thats the case you can probobly just take some arimidex to solve the problem. But depending on how up to date your doc is on hormones he may not prescribe that to you. I myself tested high-out of range for estrogen with decent test. 1st doc wanted to put me on depression meds. Go figure. Left there in a hurry and went to another doc. She put me on Test and Arimidex. If you dont like his answer, simply go somewhere else. Im not sure what your diet looks like but stay away from processed foods. They are known for raising estrogen and lowering test. Good luck.

**FallenWyvern** · 12-30-2008, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by blastedlooger

I wanted to know if there should be something that can fix this that won't screw up my bodies natural ability to balance itself out.

If they got the HRT or TRT route know that it is replacement therapy, it never helps your natural abilities, it replaces them. If your natural levels are all messed up then you will want to do it and you will do it for the rest of your life.

I have heard of docs trying hcg to elevate natural test levels though.

**blastedlooger** · 12-31-2008, 06:27 PM

I'm thinking aromatase inhibitor would be the best solution but there are so many of them. The extra estrogen tricks your body into thinking you have high levels of test when you really don't. Would the aromatase inhibitor just block the absorption of estrogen? Would it make your body think estrogen levels are low and therefore increase testosterone production? If it does it think this would be the best solution for my problem.

I have read a lot of good things about arimidex ? I think it's also the most expensive though right?

I've read about some others but it says they act like estrogen in other parts of the body or something but also block the estrogen in certain parts.

I've heard about toremifene, clomid, nolvadex .

Which is the best solution, which is most cost effective?

**youngNhungry** · 01-01-2009, 07:49 PM

The aromatase inhibitor blocks the conversion of test to estro. Drugs like Nolva block the estro from the receptor site. AR's like arimadex eventually lower the amount of free estrogen in your body helping to prevent negative feedback loops with your endocrine system. Arimadex does not make your body "think" that your estrogen levels are lower they just will be. To be honest, I would first tackle the thyroid issue. Most of the negative physical symptoms you are describing are usually associated with hypothyroidism. Your doc will write you a script for synthroid and it will eleviate most of the problems you're having. I am not a doctor, however. You should only do what your doc says. Anything you choose to do otherwise is up to you.

**blastedlooger** · 01-01-2009, 10:53 PM

Well, I go in tomorrow. This is a new doctor and I do know some doctors can be horrible. I just prefer I know what I'm getting myself into before I go in in case they offer me a solution that seems fishy and could be harmful to my body or make the problem worse. The PA didn't really say exactly what was wrong over the phone. He mentioned thyroid and high estrogen for a male. I hadn't done any research at the time so I didn't ask about the number values.

I also know if they gave me more test if I had high estrogen it wouldn't be the right method and could lead to even more estrogen.

I hope it's not the thyroid, I don't want to take any meds for life like synthroid .

Any chance you can take synthroid for a short amount of time and your body will turn back on?

**youngNhungry** · 01-02-2009, 08:42 AM

No, you cannot take synthroid (T4) or Cytomel (T3) and your body will turn back on after discontinuing a shrt period of therapy. Your body will most likely shut down its natural production of what ever level of hormone it was previously producing, as a result of the therapy. In time it may restore its levels to the original production but, often the thyroid will have to be supplemented for life. If your thyroid levels are low, don't worry about being on the drug the rest of your life. The benefits of the TRT will make you feel much better. You need a certain "normal" level of the hormone in your body to begin with. There could be long term health consequences by not having the right basal level in your system. Just do what the doc says and, if you don't feel like your needs are being met fire him and get a new one. Your the boss when it comes to your body, doctors are just there for advice and the administration of meds.

**blastedlooger** · 01-02-2009, 06:13 PM

I went in today and found out my levels of total test and estraidol (estrogen). He took my copies of the paper so that is all I remember.

total test- 487 (whatever the standard unit is)
estraidol- 64 (This is high according to the scale)

He told me nothing was wrong with me and then I had to explain to him I am chronically fatigued and tired. It didn't sound right either because the estraidol is extremely high from what I have read and even according to the scale they had on the results. The total test for someone who is 19 also seems really low, but not as bad as the estrogen.

When I said this he basically said the values for these two things change frequently, can't be certain from a blood test, and we just don't know much about what the values are supposed to be for someone my age. I told him about aromatase inhibitors and he said they aren't used in men often and they don't have a lot of research for the long term affects on someone.

He set me up to get re- blood tested on monday just for hormones and hormone related stuff like L.H.

What I want to know is can levels really vary that much to make a blood test that inaccurate. These levels seem like absolute crap to me and a 19 year old with 64 estraidol is ****ing ridiculous. The imbalance would finally explain my energy problems yet he says I am fine.

I'm actually pretty mad. I thought he would put me on something so I could start to feel more ****ing energy! Damnet. Now I get to wait another month to get this resolved. I wasn't even asking for test either, just want an aromatase inhibitor.

What do you guys think?

**FallenWyvern** · 01-02-2009, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by blastedlooger

I went in today and found out my levels of total test and estraidol (estrogen). He took my copies of the paper so that is all I remember.

total test- 487 (whatever the standard unit is)
estraidol- 64 (This is high according to the scale)

He told me nothing was wrong with me and then I had to explain to him I am chronically fatigued and tired. It didn't sound right either because the estraidol is extremely high from what I have read and even according to the scale they had on the results. The total test for someone who is 19 also seems really low, but not as bad as the estrogen.

When I said this he basically said the values for these two things change frequently, can't be certain from a blood test, and we just don't know much about what the values are supposed to be for someone my age. I told him about aromatase inhibitors and he said they aren't used in men often and they don't have a lot of research for the long term affects on someone.

He set me up to get re- blood tested on monday just for hormones and hormone related stuff like L.H.

What I want to know is can levels really vary that much to make a blood test that inaccurate. These levels seem like absolute crap to me and a 19 year old with 64 estraidol is ****ing ridiculous. The imbalance would finally explain my energy problems yet he says I am fine.

I'm actually pretty mad. I thought he would put me on something so I could start to feel more ****ing energy! Damnet. Now I get to wait another month to get this resolved. I wasn't even asking for test either, just want an aromatase inhibitor.

What do you guys think?

This is true ya know. AI were developed for use in women that have breast cancer. I am sure the standard for "safe" is different for cancer survivors.

I would think that you would feel like crap though with a 64 e2.

You should demand copies of your blood work and go get a second opinion. My anti age doc regularly prescribes AI to almost anybody with high e2 level, but he is also monitoring blood work at least every six months.

This might be something that you can fix by changing your diet. Google it.

**blastedlooger** · 01-02-2009, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

This is true ya know. AI were developed for use in women that have breast cancer. I am sure the standard for "safe" is different for cancer survivors.

I would think that you would feel like crap though with a 64 e2.

You should demand copies of your blood work and go get a second opinion. My anti age doc regularly prescribes AI to almost anybody with high e2 level, but he is also monitoring blood work at least every six months.

This might be something that you can fix by changing your diet. Google it.

I've googled it. Says lay off the dairy and take zinc. I haven't quite laid off the dairy but I started taking 100mg of zinc a day. I'm actually kind of a dairy freak. Milk is my favorite drink and I eat a lot of yogurt.

I also read about chrysin? Have you heard of this? I'm going to get some soon but not take it before the doc

I also had IGF-1 levels that were slightly above the recommended range and he said I was growing. I haven't grown since I was 15.

**FallenWyvern** · 01-02-2009, 09:06 PM

No clue. Wikipedia says it doesn't work though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysin

Alcohol elevates estrogen as well.

**blastedlooger** · 01-03-2009, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

No clue. Wikipedia says it doesn't work though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysin

Alcohol elevates estrogen as well.

Darn, I was going to use the Chrysin if the doc didn't do anything.

I don't drink much alcohol and first time I tried was when I turned 18. I've gotten drunk like 3 times and have had alcohol on less than 8 occasions. Hadn't had any for at least 2 months before I got tested.

Are there any good studies on AIs that say side effects for males? I need to convince my doctor to let me have some. I probably could have gotten the prescrip today if I had them with me. Aren't AIs pretty safe?

His main arguments were that I was male, too young, and blood tests aren't that accurate.

Well, if I am so young, why do I feel like shit and the blood test has something on it that if right would cause me to feel like shit.

**youngNhungry** · 01-03-2009, 07:54 AM

You IGF-1 levels are probably high because your may not be growing in height but, you will continue to establish more bone density, as well as muscle mass as you age. I know that I looked drastically different in body comp between your age and 22. And thats before I began usinh anabolics. In fact to reinforce the docs statement, I was the same height I am now at age 16. It takes several years to put on your man meat and bones. I looked like a baby at 19 compared to 22. I would personally doubt that you have a zinc deficiancy or that chrysin would do much for you. And remember, though your test levels may be lower on the scale given, probably an equally small % of patients would ever fall into the highest catagories. The doc is probably just concerned about your age as a factor inprescribing you any test or AI's. In fact if he were to give you presciption test, your estrogen levels would probably increase proportionately to the dose given. If it relly bothers you, go for a second opinion. I guess thats the only option you have beyond self medicating, which at 19 would probably be a really bad idea.

**blastedlooger** · 01-03-2009, 04:28 PM

Yea, I 100% don't want to be put on test but from what I have read AIs seem extremely safe even for someone my age. AIs would also raise my test levels and when I stopped using them would still stay in a better balance.

Anyone ever used DIM and know where to get it? Results?

**blastedlooger** · 01-05-2009, 09:31 PM

I went in today to get more blood tests and I got a printout of my last bloodtest so I can give you all some more numbers. Can you guys tell me what they mean for someone my age. I got this test at like 10 a.m.

Cortisol 23.1 ug/dL
DHEA 335 ug/dL
Estradiol (E2) 64 pg/mL
Free Androgen Index 70.4 units
SHBG 24 nmol/L
Total Testosterone 487 ng/dL

Free T3- 3.59 pg/mL
Free T4- 1.21 ng/dL
IGF-1- 427 ng/ml
PSA- .56 ng/mL
TBG- 15.7 ug/mL
TSH- 2.17 uIU/mL

Cholesterol- 127 mg/dL

**moon** · 01-07-2009, 06:24 PM

You look good on your IGF-1. Thats where if it was less than 185, you would be elegible for HGH injections. Expensive. To me, 487 ng/dl Test is sorta low but not bad. If you were under 350, then I would really worry about that area. just my 2 cents.

**blastedlooger** · 01-10-2009, 01:40 AM

Does anyone know if Arimidex lowering my estrogen levels would also lower my IGF-1 levels? I don't look too young by any means but I wouldn't want it to stunt my growth. My forearms aren't as thick (bone) as my dad. Not worried about height because I think I'm done in those regards.

If I get my next bloodtests back and they are equally as bad or worse than what I got from the first test the doc should put me on arimidex. If he doesn't I'm gonna get some 6-OXO.

Cliff notes:
Does arimidex (AI) lower IGF levels and stunt growth?
If doc doesn't do anything, is 6-OXO a viable solution?

Thanks for the help!

**kickinit** · 01-10-2009, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

If they got the HRT or TRT route know that it is replacement therapy, it never helps your natural abilities, it replaces them. If your natural levels are all messed up then you will want to do it and you will do it for the rest of your life.

I have heard of docs trying hcg to elevate natural test levels though.

my doctor will put me on hcg , any input on it man?

**FallenWyvern** · 01-10-2009, 12:17 PM

Cut paste.

Many practitioners consider this incredible hormone treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic (secondary) hypogonadism. Such certainly makes sense, as supplementing with a LH analog indeed increases testosterone production in patients who do not concurrently suffer primary hypogonadism. But often, upwards of 1000IU per day must be given to achieve the desired serum T level. Even then, for some unexplained reason, while serum T levels may be adequately elevated, the patients simply do not report realization of the benefits of TRT, when HCG is administered as sole TRT. You also run the risk of inducing LH insensitivity at that dosage, and therefore may actually cause primary hypogonadism while attempting to treat secondary hypogonadism. HCG, especially at higher doses, also dramatically increases aromatase activity, thus inappropriately elevating estrogens. Personally, I recommend never giving more than 500IU of HCG at a time.

A real benefit of HCG is that it will prevent testicular atrophy. I do not think we should ignore the aesthetics of that consideration. Your patients will feel the same way.

**kickinit** · 01-11-2009, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

Cut paste.

Many practitioners consider this incredible hormone treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic (secondary) hypogonadism. Such certainly makes sense, as supplementing with a LH analog indeed increases testosterone production in patients who do not concurrently suffer primary hypogonadism. But often, upwards of 1000IU per day must be given to achieve the desired serum T level. Even then, for some unexplained reason, while serum T levels may be adequately elevated, the patients simply do not report realization of the benefits of TRT, when HCG is administered as sole TRT. You also run the risk of inducing LH insensitivity at that dosage, and therefore may actually cause primary hypogonadism while attempting to treat secondary hypogonadism. HCG, especially at higher doses, also dramatically increases aromatase activity, thus inappropriately elevating estrogens. Personally, I recommend never giving more than 500IU of HCG at a time.

A real benefit of HCG is that it will prevent testicular atrophy. I do not think we should ignore the aesthetics of that consideration. Your patients will feel the same way.

Thanks, where did you cut and paste that?

**blastedlooger** · 01-11-2009, 02:15 PM

Does arimidex (AI) lower IGF levels and stunt growth?
If doc doesn't do anything, is 6-OXO a viable solution?

Thanks for the help

**FallenWyvern** · 01-11-2009, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by kickinit

Thanks, where did you cut and paste that?

Here ya go.
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1...mone+treatment

**FallenWyvern** · 01-11-2009, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by blastedlooger

Does arimidex (AI) lower IGF levels and stunt growth?
If doc doesn't do anything, is 6-OXO a viable solution?

Thanks for the help

1. I have read that it lowers IGF levels by as much as 25%. Not really sure though...

2. 95% of all supplements are suspect. If it does work like Arimidex, it would lower IGF as well?

**blastedlooger** · 01-14-2009, 12:41 AM

Ok. I go in for the final time on the 15th for the results of my second blood test. If they are similar he will probably put me on some SERM or AI, or he better haha.

1) If you guys were in my situation and could choose between nolvadex , clomid, letrozole , or arimidex which would you choose?

For instance, someone posted this about letro... (after using the letro be prepared for an estrogen rebound so start nolva at 20mgs for about 2 weeks)
There is so much information on all of them and I have attempted to understand but can't really pinpoint what would be best for my particular situation.

2) Can someone pm me on what I would need if I wanted to do this stuff myself from the banner site in case he doesn't give me anything. It's not injection is it?

**Garbanzo Dude** · 01-14-2009, 05:52 PM

here is the deal young one.....your doc....is surely not very familiar and opened mined with TRT....(nova, clomid and arimidex ARE used for men) the use is classified as off label......trust me...most of them dont have a "true" grasp of TRT and will send you home if your numbers are somewhat within range...however at your age I would ask questions outside the box, get a more complete blood work done including your thyroid.....you have to remember HRT is for life.....and as far as Arimidex....I'm on it for now.....10 weeks script by the doc.....but that mostly because of my prior ASS use and he is trying to see how much my bad numbers will improve.... and i just learned that this some what common before the next option which is TRT for life

**blastedlooger** · 01-14-2009, 11:29 PM

I already got thyroid checked in the first test... Thyroid turned out fine. Just want an answer to which one of the 4 big anti-estrogens is best for my situation in your opinion. I will self-treat if he doesn't do anything and my next test results I get to see tomorrow are still way off what they should be.

**blastedlooger** · 01-15-2009, 03:13 PM

Second blood test

Estradiol 53
Total Test 583

He almost prescribed arimidex but said he wanted to do some more research and sent me away with provigil (a stimulant).

He did this to try and help treat my fatigue but I looked up the side effects and am not to keen on taking this substance. The sides to this seem worse than arimidex. I don't really want something that covers up my symptoms.

**Garbanzo Dude** · 01-15-2009, 08:47 PM

lol..... not surprised....most docs think they can treat hormone issues with phys meds....I've tried provigil its freakin awesome but too expensive and the generic indian stuff is not as good....but again at your age....look for a doc that can get down to the root casue of E2 levels being high.....amrimidex might help you, but you can't stay on it for ever

**blastedlooger** · 01-15-2009, 11:39 PM

I took half a pill of the provigil today as told by the doc. I didn't notice anything good out of it and not sure if I was just tired but I felt like a zombie. Did not help concentration. I'll up the dosage to a whole pill tomorrow or the next day and see how that is. I'm kind of just trying it though and will not use it for the four weeks the doctor wanted me to because it is just a cover up of my symptoms. I don't believe in actual ADD. If you have ADD it's caused by something else, but nonetheless stimulants do prove beneficial to anyone because they are "stimulants". Arimidex would clear the negative feedback loop caused by E2 and then produce more testosterone and if my E2 got back to where it was the ratio of test to estradiol would be improved.

Any recommends on docs? College Station, TX or Corpus Christi, TX

Do you think the free campus doctors will do anything? I don't really even want to begin to discuss this with them though because I don't think they'd no squat about it.

**blastedlooger** · 01-27-2009, 06:27 PM

At another forum I was told I should try some natural supplements to fix the problem.

Supplements I have been taking:

Mega Men Multi-Vitamin
Vitamin C w/ bioflav
Zinc
Magnesium
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B12 (couple times a week)

They told me to add:

Myomin (looks really good)
DIM
Iodine (gonna go buy seaweed for this)

I also bought 6 OXO Extreme but not sure If I want to use it. I looked at the results from Baylor and it didn't look very promising.

**mrmeotz** · 07-03-2009, 05:19 PM

i have high estrogen levels too and low testosterone ...

i got some arimidex ...how long should i take it? would i have an estrogen rebound , if i take it for like 2-4 weeks and then stop taking it?

my doc told me to take 0,5mg every 3 days but not for how long?

or is it a life time sentence?

greetings