My TRT Experience

**ZonaDave** · 02-01-2009, 01:09 AM

hey guys! i've been reading quite a few threads on here...pretty good stuff!

i'm 42 this year and have been on TRT since Aug. 2008 (6 months now) and i'm still working to get things figured out. here's a little info about my experience so far.

i went to see my first doc a few years ago because i had low libido and ED. i've had low T symptoms for about 6-8 years but never knew what it was. got checked out by a few docs and they said everything looked good.

after seeing several docs i found one who suggested i might have low T. he started me out on 1 tube of Testim/day and after the first month this was my blood results:

TT: 291 (Range 90-890)
%FT: 1.43 (Range 1.5-2.2)
FT: 48.5 (Range 30-135)
LH: 3.4 (Range 1.7-8.6)

he was too conservative for me and made a big deal out of going to 2 tubes/day so i found a new doc. my current doc took me off that after a month and put me on shots.

this was the schedule she had me on to start with:

Sat - 250IU of HCG
Sun - 250IU of HCG
Mon - 100mg Test Cyp.

this was my first blood test after being on that schedule for 2 months:

TT: 829 (Range 262-1593)
FT: 20.6 (Range 7.2-23.0)
Estradiol: 59 (Range 0-56)

we added Anastrozole to the mix as follows:

Sat - 250IU of HCG
Sun - 250IU of HCG
Mon - 100mg Test Cyp. & .75mg Anstrozole
Thu - .75mg Anstrozole

i got tested again a month later:

TT: 638 (range = 280-800)
FT: 10.8 (range = 1.4-12.6)
E2: 26.1 (range = 7.6-42.6)

still had low libido/ED with these levels.

here's my current TRT schedule:

Mon - .5mg Anastrozole & 60mg of Test Cyp. (Morning Shot)
Tue – nothing
Wed – .5mg Anastrozole & 250IU of HCG
Thu – 60mg of Test Cyp. (Evening Shot)
Fri – .5mg Anastrozole & B12 Shot
Sat - nothing
Sun - 250IU of HCG

about a month ago i bumped my dose up to two 100mg shots/week and i felt great (good libido and little ED but i was concerned about my E2 going to high so i dropped it down to where it is now and i felt like shit today.

so i'm not sure if my E2 finally caught up to the increased T from last month and is now giving me low libido/ED again, or the decrease in dosage this month is causing problems.

my doc is pretty cool and doesn't mind me being over the top range. i did a few cycles about 20 years ago and got gyno after coming off a big cycle and had it surgically removed. as you can see i'm prone to convert T-to-E so i need to keep an eye on that.

i see alot of guys on here shooting 200mg/week so i'm interested in hearing how that's going for you guys.

**GottaGetIt** · 02-01-2009, 01:59 AM

It's certainly helpful to be able to look back at your (recent) past history and see where the treatment has taken you so far.
It's also good that you have a doctor willing to work with you to make you
better - because after all that is the goal.
Best of luck as you continue this road.

**ZonaDave** · 02-01-2009, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by GottaGetIt

It's certainly helpful to be able to look back at your (recent) past history and see where the treatment has taken you so far.
It's also good that you have a doctor willing to work with you to make you
better - because after all that is the goal.
Best of luck as you continue this road.

thanks man!

**flatscat** · 02-01-2009, 01:12 PM

I have semi-high E2 also- my doc has told me to stop the HCG and see where the estrogen levels go then. I am on 200mg/week test C, arimidex .5 eod.

**FallenWyvern** · 02-01-2009, 01:16 PM

I bet you come in at 1000-1200 with this plan.

**ZonaDave** · 02-01-2009, 01:31 PM

thanks for the feedback guys!

i did have some adrenal problems resulting from my low T over the years but i think i got them addressed now.

i don't feel as good now on 120mg/week as i did on the 200mg/week. after i do some strenuous or even sex, i get really gittery and i'm not sure what's casuing that.

flatscat, what are your blood levels like on 200mg/week? are you having high E2 symptoms?

fallenwyvern, i read a few of your posts. how long have you been on 200mg/week? are you still at that dosage? if so, how's it working out for you?

**FallenWyvern** · 02-01-2009, 01:43 PM

I have been at 200 mgs for a year. I know that my doc is gonna cut me back next month though. Going great. I have to say that I might be too horny.

**ZonaDave** · 02-01-2009, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

I have been at 200 mgs for a year. I know that my doc is gonna cut me back next month though. Going great. I have to say that I might be too horny.

why is he cutting you back?

what's your current TRT schedule and dosages?

**FallenWyvern** · 02-01-2009, 03:01 PM

I take 200mgs week and I split up 1 pill of arimidex through the week. Every 4th month I take 2000iu of HCG for 5 weeks.

**ZonaDave** · 02-01-2009, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

I take 200mgs week and I split up 1 pill of arimidex through the week. Every 4th month I take 2000iu of HCG for 5 weeks.

if you're doing well at that dose, why is your doc cutting you back?

**flatscat** · 02-01-2009, 03:29 PM

Total test was over 1400 (started 239)and free was like 39 (started 11). I was on 250iu once/week of HCG and .5 arimidex twice/week. E2 was still at 49 (started at 58) - no symptoms - just me worrying about it. Like I said I dropped the HCG and bumped the arimidex .5 to eod until the next blood work. I am trying to get the E2 down to 20-30.

**ZonaDave** · 02-01-2009, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

Total test was over 1400 (started 239)and free was like 39 (started 11). I was on 250iu once/week of HCG and .5 arimidex twice/week. E2 was still at 49 (started at 58) - no symptoms - just me worrying about it. Like I said I dropped the HCG and bumped the arimidex .5 to eod until the next blood work. I am trying to get the E2 down to 20-30.

that sounds like a good plan! di you have libido/ED issues before you started TRT? if so, how is it now on that dose?

**flatscat** · 02-01-2009, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

that sounds like a good plan! di you have libido/ED issues before you started TRT? if so, how is it now on that dose?

Yes - low/no drive - really had to work at it - no morning wood. Now - have to work at not wanting it. Really feel like I am sixteen again. Morning wood every morning at 5am. lol never have to set my alarm clock!

**ZonaDave** · 02-01-2009, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

Yes - low/no drive - really had to work at it - no morning wood. Now - have to work at not wanting it. Really feel like I am sixteen again. Morning wood every morning at 5am. lol never have to set my alarm clock!

sounds like you're dialed in bro!

**ZonaDave** · 02-02-2009, 08:26 AM

i felt like crap on saturday and worse yesterday! not to mention that the cardinals didn't win!

dropping down to 120mg/week was a bad move. i got all my old symptoms back (low libido, ED, fatique, anxiety, insomnia, etc...)

i didn't sleep at all last night and couldn't wait to take a 100mg shot this morning. things should pick up for me this week after my second shot.

i'm amazed at how fast the T got out of my body! a month ago i was on 200mg/week, then a week later i dropped it down to 160mg/week, then last week i dropped it down to 120mg/week and by the end of the week i felt like shit! i'd shoot myself if i had to feel like this all the time...

**ENraged** · 02-03-2009, 09:21 AM

Have you contacted your Doc to tell him that your slipping back in to your old self with the lower dosage?

**ZonaDave** · 02-03-2009, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by ENraged

Have you contacted your Doc to tell him that your slipping back in to your old self with the lower dosage?

not yet, i meet with her later this week.

i don't think the lower dose affected me as much as dropping down too fast did. looking back, i should have decreased it slowly over a few months rather than two weeks. it was a bad move on my part. i knew better with this stuff. small controlled changes are always better when regulating hormones.

i felt on top of the world with 200mg/week and right back to square one on 120mg/week. i got all my original symptoms back including night sweats last night. i haven't slept all that great in the last few days so that's not helping how i feel. i had insomnia before when my T was low and that sucks. i lay in bed wide awake and my mind is racing. when i was on 200mg i slept like a baby and woke up nice and horny the way i use to.

so, i took a 100mg shot yesterday morning and i'm feeling better already. my plan is to bring my levels back up with 200mg/week, get them stabilized, draw some blood and go from there. if my levels are off the chart then i'll slowly reduce my T dose and check blood again. i think if i dropped my dose 20mg each week i would have felt better.

i felt great on 200mg but i'm not sure if that's a healthy dosage long-term. if it drives my E2 too high and i have to take a shit load of anastrozole to get it down then i'm defeating the purpose.

someone on another board suggested increasing the frequency of my HCG instead of increasing my TC dosage so i'm going to chat with my doc about trying that.

**flatscat** · 02-03-2009, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

not yet, i meet with her later this week.

i don't think the lower dose affected me as much as dropping down too fast did. looking back, i should have decreased it slowly over a few months rather than two weeks. it was a bad move on my part. i knew better with this stuff. small controlled changes are always better when regulating hormones.

i felt on top of the world with 200mg/week and right back to square one on 120mg/week. i got all my original symptoms back including night sweats last night. i haven't slept all that great in the last few days so that's not helping how i feel. i had insomnia before when my T was low and that sucks. i lay in bed wide awake and my mind is racing. when i was on 200mg i slept like a baby and woke up nice and horny the way i use to.

so, i took a 100mg shot yesterday morning and i'm feeling better already. my plan is to bring my levels back up with 200mg/week, get them stabilized, draw some blood and go from there. if my levels are off the chart then i'll slowly reduce my T dose and check blood again. i think if i dropped my dose 20mg each week i would have felt better.

i felt great on 200mg but i'm not sure if that's a healthy dosage long-term. if it drives my E2 too high and i have to take a shit load of anastrozole to get it down then i'm defeating the purpose.

someone on another board suggested increasing the frequency of my HCG instead of increasing my TC dosage so i'm going to chat with my doc about trying that.

Zona - the HCG might have as much of an effect or more than the test does on your E2 - especially if you up the dose and lower the test.

I am still trying to really dial in my program.
I mean I feel like the trt is really working and almost all symptoms are better - but trying to get the E2 in check will take some time I think. Do I stop HCG? Do I bump the arimidex ? Do I lower the test? Is it my bf screwing things up? It is not as easy as I once thought it was going to be.

I am glad I found this board because I think we will have to work out most of these issues by trial and error and the experiences of the good bro's on here. Although I like my Doc, most of the things we are talking about he can't comprehend in a real life scenario.

Thanks for posting up.

**ZonaDave** · 02-03-2009, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

Zona - the HCG might have as much of an effect or more than the test does on your E2 - especially if you up the dose and lower the test.

I am still trying to really dial in my program.
I mean I feel like the trt is really working and almost all symptoms are better - but trying to get the E2 in check will take some time I think. Do I stop HCG? Do I bump the arimidex ? Do I lower the test? Is it my bf screwing things up? It is not as easy as I once thought it was going to be.

I am glad I found this board because I think we will have to work out most of these issues by trial and error and the experiences of the good bro's on here. Although I like my Doc, most of the things we are talking about he can't comprehend in a real life scenario.

Thanks for posting up.

you're right on that bro! it's an individual experience for each of us. i think it's important to keep a journal and make small controlled changes. it's a "fine tuning" process. i learned that the hard way...lol

a healthy body does an amazing job of regulating hormones. right now we are all off autopilot so everything counts and when something like your BF changes, you might have to "tune" your TRT to match it.

after getting your levels looking good it might be a matter of time at that point. just allowing time for your body to heal itself. i'll be honest, i get impatient. i'm paying alot of money out of pocket for TRT and i expect to get results. the reality is, it could take close to a year on a steady TRT schedule with good numbers before things are working the way they should.

i didn't get to where i am now overnight. i had my symptoms starting almost 10 years ago. i deserve a quick fix but i can't convince my body.

**clozto50** · 02-04-2009, 01:53 AM

Im wondering if a little proviron might help.It is a mild anti e and helps turbo charge the test your taking.You could probably stay at 100mg a week with 25 mg proviron a day.Also remember the half life of a hormone plays a big part in your daily level.Cutting back to quickly can have problems,you get a roller coaster affect.

**ZonaDave** · 02-04-2009, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by clozto50

Im wondering if a little proviron might help.It is a mild anti e and helps turbo charge the test your taking.You could probably stay at 100mg a week with 25 mg proviron a day.Also remember the half life of a hormone plays a big part in your daily level.Cutting back to quickly can have problems,you get a roller coaster affect.

i'm sure it will help boost DHT. my DHT was high off the charts when i was on Testim and quite a bit lower now that i'm on shots. i'll mention it to my doc. my plan is to get on a steady schedule, don't mess with it until i can get blood tests done at least 5-6 weeks later.

i think the reason why i felt so crappy was from dropping my T too fast. i felt so good on 200mg and i didn't think dropping to 120mg in a few weeks would make this much of a difference.

i also wonder what the T to E lag is. if my E was high from the 200mg, and i reduced my dose to 120mg, it's possible that i set up a low T - high E situation would be double whammy! i'm feeling better already after my last shot.

i pick up my scripts today and i'm going to try freezing the new HCG in individual syringes. i'm paying $70 per month for HCG and throwing away most of it. i called the company who makes Novarel yesterday and the product rep said freezing it won't affect it. their concern was if it gets frozen in the vial it could break. i filled an insulin needle with HCG and left a little air in it for thermal expansion and it froze nicely. thawed it out and shot it this morning. worked like a charm!

**CrazyCrew** · 02-25-2009, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

i'm sure it will help boost DHT. my DHT was high off the charts when i was on Testim and quite a bit lower now that i'm on shots. i'll mention it to my doc. my plan is to get on a steady schedule, don't mess with it until i can get blood tests done at least 5-6 weeks later.

i think the reason why i felt so crappy was from dropping my T too fast. i felt so good on 200mg and i didn't think dropping to 120mg in a few weeks would make this much of a difference.

i also wonder what the T to E lag is. if my E was high from the 200mg, and i reduced my dose to 120mg, it's possible that i set up a low T - high E situation would be double whammy! i'm feeling better already after my last shot.

i pick up my scripts today and i'm going to try freezing the new HCG in individual syringes. i'm paying $70 per month for HCG and throwing away most of it. i called the company who makes Novarel yesterday and the product rep said freezing it won't affect it. their concern was if it gets frozen in the vial it could break. i filled an insulin needle with HCG and left a little air in it for thermal expansion and it froze nicely. thawed it out and shot it this morning. worked like a charm!

My DHT was just over 1000 on an earlier test and my last BW 12/08 showed it at just over1300. my Hemos were both over the top. I had been on Androgel to that point. Have you been concerned over your DHP?

I quit the Andro 2 months ago and on my own started inj of 1cc test c. I donated blood and have noticed I am starting to feel better. I'm suppose to see a new doctor I found thru a compounding pharmacy in 2 weeks.

**ZonaDave** · 02-25-2009, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by CrazyCrew

My DHT was just over 1000 on an earlier test and my last BW 12/08 showed it at just over1300. my Hemos were both over the top. I had been on Androgel to that point. Have you been concerned over your DHP?

I quit the Andro 2 months ago and on my own started inj of 1cc test c. I donated blood and have noticed I am starting to feel better. I'm suppose to see a new doctor I found thru a compounding pharmacy in 2 weeks.

i haven't had my blood checked in awhile but next week i'm going to send in the ZRT Lab saliva kits for Free T and E2 to see where those are.

good luck with the new doc, post a new thread when you have your visit.

**CrazyCrew** · 02-25-2009, 01:45 PM

Is your DHT still high or does it concern you? I can't seem to find much on it.

**ZonaDave** · 02-25-2009, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by CrazyCrew

Is your DHT still high or does it concern you? I can't seem to find much on it.

my DHT was really high when i was using 2 tubes of Testim/day but it came down to normal levels when i started shots. i'm sure it's fine now but i won't know until my next blood test in a few months.

**CrazyCrew** · 02-26-2009, 07:16 AM

'here's my current TRT schedule:

Mon - .5mg Anastrozole & 60mg of Test Cyp. (Morning Shot)
Tue – nothing
Wed – .5mg Anastrozole & 250IU of HCG
Thu – 60mg of Test Cyp. (Evening Shot)
Fri – .5mg Anastrozole & B12 Shot
Sat - nothing
Sun - 250IU of HCG"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Dave, couldn't you up the Anastrozole to 1mg 2 times a week without major imbalances? I have seen others with higher doses. What about a different brand of AI? Perhaps your not responding to this one as you should. From what you've posted it does sound like an E2 issue. Perhaps you are an under responder to Anastrozole.
Good luck

**ZonaDave** · 02-26-2009, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by CrazyCrew

'here's my current TRT schedule:

Mon - .5mg Anastrozole & 60mg of Test Cyp. (Morning Shot)
Tue – nothing
Wed – .5mg Anastrozole & 250IU of HCG
Thu – 60mg of Test Cyp. (Evening Shot)
Fri – .5mg Anastrozole & B12 Shot
Sat - nothing
Sun - 250IU of HCG"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Dave, couldn't you up the Anastrozole to 1mg 2 times a week without major imbalances? I have seen others with higher doses. What about a different brand of AI? Perhaps your not responding to this one as you should. From what you've posted it does sound like an E2 issue. Perhaps you are an under responder to Anastrozole.
Good luck

that's possible. i'm using compounded anastrozole right now. i haven't had my E2 tested in awhile so i'm going to use the saliva test in a week or two to see where it is.

**bassman94509** · 02-27-2009, 08:16 PM

Hey dave, do you have insurance? I was thinking about going to a anti aging clinic and i was wondering how much it would cost a month for every thing!!! Im trying to go through Kaiser but doesn't look very good.

**ZonaDave** · 03-01-2009, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by bassman94509

Hey dave, do you have insurance? I was thinking about going to a anti aging clinic and i was wondering how much it would cost a month for every thing!!! Im trying to go through Kaiser but doesn't look very good.

yes, i have BCBS but i don't run any of my TRT through it. they would cover the Test Cyp. but my co-pay is $50 and a 10cc vial costs me $49

HCG costs me $70 a vial but it lasts me several months.

the anastrozole costs me about $4/cap and i take two caps/week.

the meds aren't that bad compared to the $300 a pop bloodwork.

**bassman94509** · 03-01-2009, 11:46 PM

That doesn't sound to bad and the cyp, what last about 3 months,? how offten do you do blood work? could you use nova instead of anastrozole would be cheaper since your running such low amount of cyp.

**ZonaDave** · 03-02-2009, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by bassman94509

That doesn't sound to bad and the cyp, what last about 3 months,? how offten do you do blood work? could you use nova instead of anastrozole would be cheaper since your running such low amount of cyp.

correct, i get about 3 months from a 10cc vial. i haven't had bloodwork in about 4 months now and i'm overdue.

it's been a long time since i used nolvadex and i don't remember how it went. when i found out how high my E2 was i did some research and the general consensus was anastrozole is the most preferred.

i don't miond paying the money as long as everything works. i'm trying to cut my anastrozole down by lowering my T dose. i'm shooting 160mg/week and i can probably get by fine with 120mg/week.

**flatscat** · 03-02-2009, 07:31 AM

Dave,

I thought you were going to send your lab kit off for your E2 test a couple of weeks ago - what was your level?

Did you back off to twice a week again on the a-dex?

Flats

**ZonaDave** · 03-02-2009, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

Dave,

I thought you were going to send your lab kit off for your E2 test a couple of weeks ago - what was your level?

Did you back off to twice a week again on the a-dex?

Flats

yes, i have several saliva kits from ZRT Lab but i haven't used them yet. i dropped my a-dex dose from .5mg 4x/week to .5mg 2x/week and i'm also dropping my T dose down this week. i'm currently on 160mg/week and i'm going to try and taper down to between 120mg-140mg/week. this will be my new protocol:

Sun - 250IU HCG
Mon - .5mg Anastrozole & 70mg Test Cyp. (Morning Shot)
Wed – 250IU HCG
Thu – .5mg Anastrozole & 70mg Test Cyp. (Evening Shot)

i'll run the lower dose for a few weeks and then saliva test. i thought the saliva test was going to be similar to the cortisol test i did where you put a gauze pad under your tongue for 5 minutes but for this one you just fill half the vial with spit. their test is just the standard estradiol test so it will have to do. i just need some kind of reference until i get my numbers close and then i'll run an ultrasensitive estradiol test.