High Estrogen Levels - How do I fix ?

[fm2002]

Got my lab results back and all my major markers are right where I want them:

Testosterone - 1009
Free Test - 26.30 ng/dl
IGF-1 - 310 ( a little high)

Except:
Estradiol 128.30 (way high)

My regime 9 weeks prior to giving blood

125mg Test E once a week
1.6 iu's HGH everyday
25mg Proviron every other day


One thing that confuses me is my Estrogen #'s were lower on an earlier test when I was taking double the amount of Test E and I wasn't taking any Proviron or HGH.

What's going on ? Why would my numbers go up not down when I cut my Test E in half and added Proviron ( a estrogen blocker) ?

[CHAP]

Bump for the OP

[fm2002]

Thanks for the bump Chap. Having trouble getting any response for a confusing problem ???

[sizerp]

Maybe the test kicked in and that's why Estro is raised. Just use an AI to manage your levels. Like Arimidex or Aromasin .

[fm2002]

Maybe the test kicked in and that's why Estro is raised. Just use an AI to manage your levels. Like Arimidex or Aromasin.

I just bought some Arimidex , but it's strange because I was on 250mg once per week of Test E for 8 weeks. My Estrogen level was 125. I than add the hgh and Proviron (estrogen blocker) and cut my Test E in half and my level goes up 3 points to 128. No offence, but there's something else going on here other than the Test kicking in ???

[flatscat]

FM - what was your estradiol level before you started?
I know you said you have had no fat loss - have you gained any?
What are the ranges for E2 on your lab results?

[fm2002]

FM - what was your estradiol level before you started?
I know you said you have had no fat loss - have you gained any?
What are the ranges for E2 on your lab results?

Baseline (before I started anything) - 22.9 pg/ml
After 8 weeks on 250mg Test E once a week - 125 pg/ml
After 12 weeks on 125mg Test E, 1.6iu's hgh ED, 25mg Proviron EOD - 128 pg/ml

During my 8 week period I gained 20 lbs. I would guess 90% of that in muscle mass. During the 12 week period I lost a little weight, but not much. I'm thinking it may be due to the high Estrogen level ?

Ranges from Life Extension are - 0-53 pg/ml

[pepous]

How do you feel on 128pg/ml?

[j4ever41]

as mentioned above you will do much better with an ai

[fm2002]

How do you feel on 128pg/ml?

I feel good not great, but having trouble dropping weight. Also have initial signs of the treaded man tits. Not good.

[fm2002]

as mentioned above you will do much better with an ai

I hear you and think your'e right, but sure would like to figure out why before I treat it. As mentioned I actually just bought some Arimidex . Just waiting to see what I can figure out before I start taking it.

[j4ever41]

i see what you are saying but i just see it related to your test e,some say not to take an ai unless sides are noticed but i say to run ai thru the cycle,why wait until you notice a problem? take you, you started with good e level after 8 weeks maybe you had no sides but your e level was 125,imo 25mg of proviron eod is not that much,i would go ahead and start ai.

[fm2002]

i see what you are saying but i just see it related to your test e,some say not to take an ai unless sides are noticed but i say to run ai thru the cycle,why wait until you notice a problem? take you, you started with good e level after 8 weeks maybe you had no sides but your e level was 125,imo 25mg of proviron eod is not that much,i would go ahead and start ai.

Ok let's put aside the reason and talk instead about the cure. The report I read on Steroid .com of the drug Arimidex states .5mg is just as effective as 1mg. So if you agree with this would I do a daily dose of .5mg or EOD of .5mg ? Keeping in mind I need to drop my Estrogen level by at least 75 points or 60%. Of course I plan on a follow up blood test perhaps 60 days after starting.

[j4ever41]

Ok let's put aside the reason and talk instead about the cure. The report I read on Steroid.com of the drug Arimidex states .5mg is just as effective as 1mg. So if you agree with this would I do a daily dose of .5mg or EOD of .5mg ? Keeping in mind I need to drop my Estrogen level by at least 75 points or 60%. Of course I plan on a follow up blood test perhaps 60 days after starting.

I would say start .5mg ed if joints start to ache or you libido is down you can try .25mg ed or .5mg eod ( everyone responds differently ),this is what i have followed in the past and worked well but i have always used aromasin . it will be interesting to see your bloodwork.

[starkiller]

fm2002, how do you feel with the test and hgh together, one better than the other or best together.

[fm2002]

I would say start .5mg ed if joints start to ache or you libido is down you can try .25mg ed or .5mg eod ( everyone responds differently ),this is what i have followed in the past and worked well but i have always used aromasin. it will be interesting to see your bloodwork.

Wait a minute; libido down ??? Is there a risk of that happening. I live in Thailand and have a 20 yr. old gf that let's just say keeps me very busy. Last thing I want is a drop in Libido ! Seriously I never heard Arimidex may cause a drop in Libido ?

[fm2002]

Okay did some more research on possible side effects. If I read correctly most sides occur when your Estrogen levels get to low. Is this correct ? What is too low or better yet what is ideal Estrogen level ?

[fm2002]

fm2002, how do you feel with the test and hgh together, one better than the other or best together.

Well Test E alone I was on a cycle level @ 250mg once a week and boy did I feel it. Gained 20lbs.of muscle, had better than expected lifting gains in the gym and had crazy spikes to libido.

When I incorporated the hgh along with 50% of the original level of Test E I lost a bit in the gym, libido leveled out and my energy didn't lessen it as well just leveled out. The difference I found was even though I dropped my gym time (injury) my muscles got smaller, but it also got more defined and I didn't lose as much as I expected. This leads me to believe that once I get back to the gym I'll have better more defined gains than when I was just on Test E. One disappointment was I was hoping to lose some weight which hasn't happened. This may be due to my Estrogen levels being out of whack.

[ZTEM]

My doc just prescribed me Tamoxifen for the exact same estrogen level--- 129

[flatscat]

Okay did some more research on possible side effects. If I read correctly most sides occur when your Estrogen levels get to low. Is this correct ? What is too low or better yet what is ideal Estrogen level ?

Some people say a t to e2 ratio of 30-1, some say a range of 20-30 is ideal. Everyone will be different - so you will have to play around with your dose - if you go too low, you will know it. You should see a pretty good amount of fluid loss at first (why some have sore joints) it should take about 3-5 days to start seeing/feeling the effects. As to why - really can't say - other than your e2 got bumped up during your first run, and your body is just prone to convert t to e. Get on an AI fast as you can bro.

On a side note - if you were to have added HCG as you had asked earlier - your e2 would probably be higher than it is, and you would have no clue as to how much the hcg was effecting it. Now, when you get your e2 under control and still want to add hcg, then you will know how it effects your numbers - t, free, and e2 and deal with it accordingly.

[j4ever41]

LOL, yeah if you drop your e to low joints will ache ( knees first for me ) libido will drop just adjust your dose accordingly,like flatscat said turn around in either direction is 3-5 days for me as well.

[pepous]

I have curios question maybe

If I am taking 150mg/w TstE and 0,25/OD of arimidex while BF 30%

And after diet will decrease my BF% to 10% will be still arimidex needed?

[fm2002]

Some people say a t to e2 ratio of 30-1, some say a range of 20-30 is ideal. Everyone will be different - so you will have to play around with your dose - if you go too low, you will know it. You should see a pretty good amount of fluid loss at first (why some have sore joints) it should take about 3-5 days to start seeing/feeling the effects. As to why - really can't say - other than your e2 got bumped up during your first run, and your body is just prone to convert t to e. Get on an AI fast as you can bro.

On a side note - if you were to have added HCG as you had asked earlier - your e2 would probably be higher than it is, and you would have no clue as to how much the hcg was effecting it. Now, when you get your e2 under control and still want to add hcg, then you will know how it effects your numbers - t, free, and e2 and deal with it accordingly.

30-1 sounds right. For me I want me T Test to be around 1100 (it's 1009 now) so my ideal level would be around 37.

You read my mind. Was concerned how adding HCG would effect levels. You make a good point and I will hold off starting HCG until after my Estrogen levels are acceptable. Sounds like I have at least 2 more trips to give blood. I know everybody is different, but in your experience how much can I expect my e2 levels to raise on say 250iu's day 6 & 250iu's Day 7 ???

Good info Thanks !

[fm2002]

LOL, yeah if you drop your e to low joints will ache ( knees first for me ) libido will drop just adjust your dose accordingly,like flatscat said turn around in either direction is 3-5 days for me as well.

So if I read your post correctly you are reaffirming that initially I'll have some issues with aches and pains and libido, but as long as I get it right, my levels that is this will all dissipate ?

[j4ever41]

well if you drop your e to low just as i said you can start off with .5mg ed if you are getting achy joints try .25mg ed and that should let your e come back up enough to solve the problem,then say a week goes by and you still have achy joints then you could try .25mg eod,you do need some e and you do not want to totally crush it but if your levels come back on your bloodwork from the middle to upper range within your normal range that should be fine.

[fm2002]

well if you drop your e to low just as i said you can start off with .5mg ed if you are getting achy joints try .25mg ed and that should let your e come back up enough to solve the problem,then say a week goes by and you still have achy joints then you could try .25mg eod,you do need some e and you do not want to totally crush it but if your levels come back on your bloodwork from the middle to upper range within your normal range that should be fine.

Thanks alot for the help. Be starting tom. @ .5mg ED. How long out should I have bloodwork done ? 60 days ?

[flatscat]

30-1 sounds right. For me I want me T Test to be around 1100 (it's 1009 now) so my ideal level would be around 37.

You read my mind. Was concerned how adding HCG would effect levels. You make a good point and I will hold off starting HCG until after my Estrogen levels are acceptable. Sounds like I have at least 2 more trips to give blood. I know everybody is different, but in your experience how much can I expect my e2 levels to raise on say 250iu's day 6 & 250iu's Day 7 ???

Good info Thanks !

You will just have to try and see - might not raise at all if you are on a good dose of your AI when you start.

It is interesting why some doc's have you take it on day 6 and 7. I know the thinking is that is when your t levels drop somewhat and it is supposed to raise your t levels. Which of course could be solved with bi weekly injections. I know it is taken to keep the boys happy though. I am sure a lot of guys are taking it this way. So I think the test c peaks about day four and starts to drop off slightly. Then day 6 your inject hcg and it starts to raise again, then you inject hcg again on day 7. You probably get the spike from the all the hcg on day 1 - 2 but wait, you have injected t again. I have read (and experienced) that the rollercoaster of t contributes to an increase in E2.

Many BB's and pro's will say they have never had a problem with gyno and I think one of the reasons why is they were on a very steady and frequent dose of t - most every day, some eod. So they got their t levels up quickly and maintained the level throughout the cycle. It is said that one benefit of gels or creams is that you don't have to worry about gyne so much. I think one of the reasons is the steady t levels in the body.

I think it is perfectly acceptable and maybe prefferable to wait every ten or twelve weeks and run a two week kick start (notice I did not say pct) with hcg.

I am not sure I would run the Adex at .5ed. It is powerful stuff bro. You might think about .5eod and then back off to .25 eod later. You should be close to your 30-1 in three or four weeks I would think. Remember that your t levels will probably increase as well due to the E being removed from your system.

JMO though - anyone else have suggestions for FM?

[fm2002]

You will just have to try and see - might not raise at all if you are on a good dose of your AI when you start.

It is interesting why some doc's have you take it on day 6 and 7. I know the thinking is that is when your t levels drop somewhat and it is supposed to raise your t levels. Which of course could be solved with bi weekly injections. I know it is taken to keep the boys happy though. I am sure a lot of guys are taking it this way. So I think the test c peaks about day four and starts to drop off slightly. Then day 6 your inject hcg and it starts to raise again, then you inject hcg again on day 7. You probably get the spike from the all the hcg on day 1 - 2 but wait, you have injected t again. I have read (and experienced) that the rollercoaster of t contributes to an increase in E2.

Many BB's and pro's will say they have never had a problem with gyno and I think one of the reasons why is they were on a very steady and frequent dose of t - most every day, some eod. So they got their t levels up quickly and maintained the level throughout the cycle. It is said that one benefit of gels or creams is that you don't have to worry about gyne so much. I think one of the reasons is the steady t levels in the body.

I think it is perfectly acceptable and maybe prefferable to wait every ten or twelve weeks and run a two week kick start (notice I did not say pct) with hcg.

I am not sure I would run the Adex at .5ed. It is powerful stuff bro. You might think about .5eod and then back off to .25 eod later. You should be close to your 30-1 in three or four weeks I would think. Remember that your t levels will probably increase as well due to the E being removed from your system.

JMO though - anyone else have suggestions for FM?

I will admit I hate needles. I can tolerate subQ, which I administer myself, but IM is a chore and if it weren't for having someone do it for me I'm not sure I would do it. I agree with you about the T rollercoaster causing gyno, acne and maybe E2 problems (first I heard this). Creams are available to me, but they ain't cheap especially when you compare to the cost of Test E vials. So I'm pretty much stuck with once a week injections.

Sounds like if you are going to take HCG it would be on days 4 & 5 ? Or as you state a "2 week jumpstart". What would you suggest for the jumpstart protocol ?

Once again I will follow your lead and do .5mg EOD of Arimidex and get my blood tested after 30 days to see where I am at.

[j4ever41]

Cool,give an update when you get your results it be interesting to see,goodluck.

[fm2002]

Cool,give an update when you get your results it be interesting to see,goodluck.

Thanks. I will. I'll use this thread to do so.

[fm2002]

As promised here my results from my bloodtest taken about 30 days after starting .5mg EOD of Arimidex .

Total Test - 1137 [up from 1009]

Estrogen - 19.3 [down from 128.3]

It's amazing that on just .5mg EOD of Arimidex my Estrogen dropped 109 points. That's strong stuff. Have to be honest I don't feel any different although I'm happy to see my numbers have lowered. I need to raise the numbers about 10 points so I will discontinue my EOD use of Proviron .

Also as expected my T Test raised a bit and is now ideal.

Still awaiting my IGF-1 #' s

[Pestodude]

I'm on Test cream. Did a mail in saliva test as my nips were getting sore as well as other high e symptoms. Results said that my estradiol was 1.1 which according to them was within range (range:.5-2.2). How does that figure relate to the numbers from blood work that are referred to in this thread (30 to 129 range)? I'm wondering why, if my E is "in range" why do I have these symptoms (sore, protruding nips, weight gain, puffy eyes)? Can these saliva tests be trusted?
Also, my progesterone was way high... 373, (their range was 12-100). Will Arimidex lower progesterone as well as estradiol?

[NEMESIS RR]

As promised here my results from my bloodtest taken about 30 days after starting .5mg EOD of Arimidex .

Total Test - 1137 [up from 1009]

Estrogen - 19.3 [down from 128.3]

It's amazing that on just .5mg EOD of Arimidex my Estrogen dropped 109 points. That's strong stuff. Have to be honest I don't feel any different although I'm happy to see my numbers have lowered. I need to raise the numbers about 10 points so I will discontinue my EOD use of Proviron .

Also as expected my T Test raised a bit and is now ideal.

Still awaiting my IGF-1 #' s

What protocol are you on?

[flatscat]

As promised here my results from my bloodtest taken about 30 days after starting .5mg EOD of Arimidex .

Total Test - 1137 [up from 1009]

Estrogen - 19.3 [down from 128.3]

It's amazing that on just .5mg EOD of Arimidex my Estrogen dropped 109 points. That's strong stuff. Have to be honest I don't feel any different although I'm happy to see my numbers have lowered. I need to raise the numbers about 10 points so I will discontinue my EOD use of Proviron .

Also as expected my T Test raised a bit and is now ideal.

Still awaiting my IGF-1 #' s

I would think about dropping the adex to .25 eod or .5 ed3 too.

[fm2002]

What protocol are you on?

My regime 9 weeks prior to giving blood

125mg Test E once a week
1.6 iu's HGH everyday
25mg Proviron every other day

[Ntpadude]

Maybe the test kicked in and that's why Estro is raised. Just use an AI to manage your levels. Like Arimidex or Aromasin.

Arimidex alone might stop additional estrodiol from forming but what to do about whats already in your blood stream? Might need nolvadex to go with that too for now. The problem is, a man's body doesnt have very many receptors for estrogen, there isnt that much to "consume" whats already in you so it can actually take a long time to get these estro levels down... might have to get on nolvadex and stay on it for some time to protect you from looking like a hermorphandike.

[fm2002]

Ok now that I somewhat have my E2 levels in check I want to start HCG . Flatscat if you are out there what would you recommend for a jumpstart protocol and than a weekly protocol ? Of course any/all are welcomed to put forth an opinion.

[Charlie6]

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, very good info.

good luck bro

[flatscat]

Ok now that I somewhat have my E2 levels in check I want to start HCG. Flatscat if you are out there what would you recommend for a jumpstart protocol and than a weekly protocol ? Of course any/all are welcomed to put forth an opinion.

FM,

To clarify - what are your reasons for taking hcg again and what are your expectations if you take it?

Weekly dose ranges are all over the place if you read up on it. I would not think you would front load it because of the spikes in some levels it may cause. 250 - 500 iu/week 250 on the third day or 250 d3 and 6 is one way to go.

Even this small amount should cause your total t to go up and free and maybe e2 again. So, you should get check your levels again in about three weeks no matter what protocol you go on.

Let me say that I am not a huge fan of hcg for long term use. I think as long as you are great without it then a larger dose every so often is fine if you want to make sure your boyz are okay. But, if it is in your program, and you take it the same way every week, then you should be able to determine it's effect on your other levels and compensate if needed with an AI or lowering your t dose. Some protocols suggest coming off the t for about 10-12 days and then taking the hcg daily for a couple of weeks. The theory is that the hcg will keep t levels up somewhat while you are off the inj t. At the same time it is starting your boys up again.

This is just my opinion, and I am sure there are many other good bro's that think differently - as always do your research and make your own decision.
Good luck.

[Charlie6]

just to check...by e2 you mean estriadiol, not estrogen?