:HRT therapy Nebido:

[martyjack]

Marcus,
The front load on the Nebido was the entire vial....think 4ml? I go back soon and take the second one...then suppose to to wait 4 months.
I'm from the US....working a job here in Israel and I had done some reading about Nebido...went to the Endo guy...the rest is history. I was sorry to see it got shot down again in the US! I was just tired of the weekly shots...I was injected about 150-165-mg Testeviron 250 weekly...been doing that for about eight months. In the US, i was taking weekly depot-testosterone 200 shots....tried the gel, patches, etc. I just can't seem to get a good balance without feeling like crap or not getting the best I can from the HRT. I first started on Androgel in 2001....six months on that was the best I've felt in years! Then everything fell off, couldn't keep my levels up, etc. My job has kept me on the move alot....I can sympathize with all the people having trouble finding physicians who understand HRT! I have had my share! I think I have tried them all...just can't get things exactly right. My libido is suffering...think it could be much better! I don't have much punch when I unload during sex! The amount of semen is nothing like it should be!
How do you tell if your estrogen is high....do you feel bloated.....water weight? Do you think .25 EOD arimidex could help?I have access to HCG ...5000.......not sure how to break that down in small amounts given the water to mix it with?
Give me a routine you think will help me with the Nebido...please. I'm 45..5'10", 220lbs, not fat, but need to loose about 20 lbs.
Thanks,
Marty

[marcus300]

Marcus,
The front load on the Nebido was the entire vial....think 4ml? I go back soon and take the second one...then suppose to to wait 4 months.
I'm from the US....working a job here in Israel and I had done some reading about Nebido...went to the Endo guy...the rest is history. I was sorry to see it got shot down again in the US! I was just tired of the weekly shots...I was injected about 150-165-mg Testeviron 250 weekly...been doing that for about eight months. In the US, i was taking weekly depot-testosterone 200 shots....tried the gel, patches, etc. I just can't seem to get a good balance without feeling like crap or not getting the best I can from the HRT. I first started on Androgel in 2001....six months on that was the best I've felt in years! Then everything fell off, couldn't keep my levels up, etc. My job has kept me on the move alot....I can sympathize with all the people having trouble finding physicians who understand HRT! I have had my share! I think I have tried them all...just can't get things exactly right. My libido is suffering...think it could be much better! I don't have much punch when I unload during sex! The amount of semen is nothing like it should be!
How do you tell if your estrogen is high....do you feel bloated.....water weight? Do you think .25 EOD arimidex could help?I have access to HCG ...5000.......not sure how to break that down in small amounts given the water to mix it with?
Give me a routine you think will help me with the Nebido...please. I'm 45..5'10", 220lbs, not fat, but need to loose about 20 lbs.
Thanks,
Marty

What I mean by frontload is how are you loading the Nebido? are you doing one injection then again in 6 wks then every 12 wks? what loading protocol did your endo advice?

You need to get bloodwork done after you have loaded the nebido and see what Test/estrogen levels your at.

[martyjack]

Yes, that's exactly right....first injection, then six weeks, then 12 weeks. The endo didn't want to do any lab work until about a week before my 3rd injection.

[marcus300]

Yes, that's exactly right....first injection, then six weeks, then 12 weeks. The endo didn't want to do any lab work until about a week before my 3rd injection.

Yes i guess he is right, just wait till you get bloodwork, he will adjust the injections closer if you need it and he will tell you if your estrogen balance is out, the low libido could do with the transition from the one therapy to another

[marcus300]

December, 2010

Testosterone replacement therapy for the treatment of male hypogonadism – results from the largest international study 1493 patients from 23 countries joined this study; of these 1123 completed a series of five injections of supplementary testosterone.

All patients had lower than normal levels of testosterone at the start of treatment. The average age of men taking part was just over 49 years. Some suffered from other conditions such as hypertension (high blood pressure) and diabetes.

The findings of this study were presented to the Men’s Health World Congress, 2010 held in France.

Key findingsIncreasing testosterone levels to normal levels by a series of injections improved the symptoms of testosterone deficiency
The percentage of patients who reported “low” or “very low” levels of sexual desire/libido fell from 64% at the start of treatment to 10% by the end
Before treatment 67% of patients said they had moderate, severe, or extremely severe erectile dysfunction (ED). This decreased to 19% after treatment with 61% of patients with some degree of ED reporting an improvement
Treatment also improved patients ability to concentrate as well as their mood
The average waist measurement of the patients fell from 100 cm to 96 cm
Some patients (6%) reported side effects which were mostly mild to moderate in severity
Overall 89% of patients said they were “satisfied” or “very satisfied” with their testosterone replacement treatment

Source: IPASS: Final data from the worldwide largest study of the tolerability and effectiveness of injectable testosterone undecanoate (TU) for the treatment of male hypogonadism involving 1493 patients. M Zitzmann, JU Hanisch, A Mattern, M Maggi. A presentation to the Men’s Health World Congress 2010.

Background information
Testosterone is an essential male hormone, produced in the testes in a man, which helps to keep our minds and bodies functioning properly. In particular, testosterone enables a man to have erections and experience sexual desire (libido). It also helps to maintain:

Muscle strength and function
Healthy bones
Positive mood
Physical energy
Male hypogonadism is a condition associated with low testosterone (T) levels.
The impact on men’s health of low testosterone can include:

Lack of energy
Depression
Loss of libido
Loss of facial and body hair
Changes to body composition (for example, low muscle mass and increased fat mass)
Men with low testosterone are also at increased risk of:

Cardiovascular disease
Diabetes and metabolic syndrome
Osteoporosis
Restoring testosterone levels in men (with lower testosterone levels than normal) can potentially lead to some beneficial effects. Researchers found that patients experienced some of these benefits in this large international study.

[trix8]

Marcus do you take an AI or HCG ? Also any other hormones like dhea with it because from reading your different posts it sounds like you just use the one compound compared to most of us on all kinds of things to calibrate our hormones.......It would almost seem too perfect if all my hrt routine was to go to the doctor 4-5 times a year and have no ups and downs.

[marcus300]

Marcus do you take an AI or HCG? Also any other hormones like dhea with it because from reading your different posts it sounds like you just use the one compound compared to most of us on all kinds of things to calibrate our hormones.......It would almost seem too perfect if all my hrt routine was to go to the doctor 4-5 times a year and have no ups and downs.

I use to use hcg but I dont anymore, size doesnt bother me and I dont have any issues,

I dont use an AI or DHEA and all my levels are within range,

I use Nebido every 12 weeks (1000mgs 4ml TU) and thats it, nothing else.

[marcus300]

October, 2010
Boosting testosterone improves mood and other 'quality of life' measures in older men
A Russian study, published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine in July 2010, looked at how men with metabolic syndrome (Met S) and hypogonadism responded to treatment with either a placebo (safe, dummy medicine) or testosterone (Nebido®) injections.Key findings

Following treatment with additional testosterone (Nebido®) to reach 'normal' testosterone levels , men in the trial (average age 51) reported feeling and functioning better. They also lost weight. These improvements to quality of life measures were significantly better than the results achieved by the placebo.

The most significant improvements to quality of life scores were reported by those men who had the lowest levels of testosterone at the start of the study.

Patients felt better and functioned better when they lost weight and the more weight they lost, the more they improved.

The study suggests that testosterone supplementation alone may improve depression in men with Met S and hypogonadism.

There were no health issues associated with the testosterone therapy .

Source: “Effects of testosterone supplementation on depressive symptoms and sexual dysfunction in hypogonadal men with the metabolic syndrome.” Giltay EJ, Tishova YA, Mskhalaya GJ, et al. J Sex Med. 2010 Jul;7(7):2572-82.

Background information
Metabolic syndrome (Met S) is a group of conditions linked to being overweight or obese: three or more of these conditions together is sufficient for a diagnosis of Met S. These conditions or characteristics are:

A large waistline
A higher than normal fat level in the blood – the so-called 'triglyceride level'
A lower than normal HDL ('good') cholesterol level
Higher than normal blood pressure
Higher than normal blood sugar
People with Met S are at greater risk of heart disease and diabetes. It is also associated with poor sexual and personal well-being.

Hypogonadism (or low testosterone ) occurs when the testes produce little or none of the hormone testosterone, or sperm. Low testosterone is associated with Met S as well as with depression, low energy and sexual problems, (ie poor quality of life indicators).

Testosterone levels naturally fall over the age of about 40, but hypogonadism is not only associated with older men.

[The Toad]

Has anyone heard anything on when this will be available in the US

[Spartans09]

The FDA reviewed it about a year and a half ago and put it on hold. The oversimplified reason was a couple of people in the trial out of hundreds or more had shortness of breath or coughing for a couple of minutes because they injected part of the 4 cc load into a vein which runs it to the lungs and causes those symptoms for a couple of minutes. Gotta love the fvcking government.

[Times Roman]

Ive recently had a few questions regarding the new HRT therapy Nebido whats available, hopefully this thread will answer some of those questions I keep getting asked. Nebido is a 1000mgs 4ml amp of testosterone undecanoate set in castor oil.

When I was put on HRT a few yrs ago my Endocrinologist tried various therapies to bring my Testosterone levels back up to a level were I was feeling better, eventually we got this from Test E which was shot every 12-14 days, my life completely changed and the demons what I use to fight everyday finally went.

Over 18 months ago my Endocrinologist started to tell me about this new therapy what he wanted to try because it was claiming remarkable results, he quoted me study after study and told me this product is getting alot of headline news and many Endo's are talking about how this kind of application will out date every other method when its available world-wide.

i've been using this product now for over 12 months and ive found it to be far superior than any other HRT therapy i've ever used. My blood values are more stable than ive ever had and i feel like 21yrs old again,

There is a loading phase for the first 6 wks and then its one injection every 12 wks or in some case's 10 wks depending on how your BW comes back and what protocol your doctor use's.It has a very long half life which is why your doing a loading phase to bring blood values up and then a maintenance dose to keep them there, at first I wasn't convinced but after using it and reading the studies I cant recommend this product highly enough, its simply remarkable and definitely worth trying.

Below are some studies what have been done which make excellent reading, there are many more available but here a just a few:

2.5 yrs study- http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ull/89/11/5429

8yrs study- http://www.agingmale2006.com/abstrac...onadal_men.asp

9 yrs study- http://www.agingmale2006.com/transcr...stosterone.asp

http://www.expert-reviews.com/doi/ab...750708.3.6.709

http://www.drugs.com/nda/nebido_070828.html

cool! I just emailed my kaiser endo so let's see if he is open to new ideas?

[marcus300]

Not sure when it will become worldwide available but I'm sure it will be coming soon, FDA were concerned about painful injection sites and slight other concerns but hey what do you expect when your sticking needles in you

[zaggahamma]

marcus...how long were you injecting with weekly doses before you went the nebido route and do you endorse it over weekly 100% or are there any pros/cons to consider?

[marcus300]

I was on Test E for around 12 months before going on Nebido and the Test E was great, no issues what so ever only slight dip in libido when the next injection was due but could of been in my head but once I started Nebido I could tell a huge difference, I felt like 21yr old again with a sex drive to match, I could maintain some good size on it and I felt the best ive ever have since going on HRT. Without doubt for me Nebido is the king of HRT and with only 4 injection a year it cant be matched. I cant see any con's only pro's for Nebido.

If you check out the studies ive posted some going on for 8yrs and 7yrs you will see what its capable of doing when its up against Test E or other HRT treatments, but like anything you have to try it and see if you prefer it or not, for me its No1 treatment 100%.

[blacksmoke]

Do you know if it is available in Canada?

[streeter]

Call me a pessimist but I bet all those HRT clinics in Florida (Like the one I use) will not like this new drug unless they can charge an arm and a leg for it because they will not like loosing money on 4 injections a year. Or they just won't carry it. But I think they will they will just make it very expensive so it equals what you would have paid for a year of Test Cyp or E

[marcus300]

Call me a pessimist but I bet all those HRT clinics in Florida (Like the one I use) will not like this new drug unless they can charge an arm and a leg for it because they will not like loosing money on 4 injections a year. Or they just won't carry it. But I think they will they will just make it very expensive so it equals what you would have paid for a year of Test Cyp or E

I am sure some politics will come into it somewhere along the line , shame if it does

[marcus300]

Do you know if it is available in Canada?

Not sure, why don't you ask about at your doctors.

[Times Roman]

Ive recently had a few questions regarding the new HRT therapy Nebido whats available, hopefully this thread will answer some of those questions I keep getting asked. Nebido is a 1000mgs 4ml amp of testosterone undecanoate set in castor oil.

When I was put on HRT a few yrs ago my Endocrinologist tried various therapies to bring my Testosterone levels back up to a level were I was feeling better, eventually we got this from Test E which was shot every 12-14 days, my life completely changed and the demons what I use to fight everyday finally went.

Over 18 months ago my Endocrinologist started to tell me about this new therapy what he wanted to try because it was claiming remarkable results, he quoted me study after study and told me this product is getting alot of headline news and many Endo's are talking about how this kind of application will out date every other method when its available world-wide.

i've been using this product now for over 12 months and ive found it to be far superior than any other HRT therapy i've ever used. My blood values are more stable than ive ever had and i feel like 21yrs old again,

There is a loading phase for the first 6 wks and then its one injection every 12 wks or in some case's 10 wks depending on how your BW comes back and what protocol your doctor use's.It has a very long half life which is why your doing a loading phase to bring blood values up and then a maintenance dose to keep them there, at first I wasn't convinced but after using it and reading the studies I cant recommend this product highly enough, its simply remarkable and definitely worth trying.

Below are some studies what have been done which make excellent reading, there are many more available but here a just a few:

2.5 yrs study- http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ull/89/11/5429

8yrs study- http://www.agingmale2006.com/abstrac...onadal_men.asp

9 yrs study- http://www.agingmale2006.com/transcr...stosterone.asp

http://www.expert-reviews.com/doi/ab...750708.3.6.709

http://www.drugs.com/nda/nebido_070828.html

Marcus,
My California Endo just emailed me and explained that Nebido is not FDA approved, and therefore not available in the US. FYI

[marcus300]

Marcus,
My California Endo just emailed me and explained that Nebido is not FDA approved, and therefore not available in the US. FYI

Yes I know,

[Times Roman]

But I'm not in the US no more, and I'm going pharm shopping tomorrow, so maybe I'lll add it to my list

[BeastintheSheets]

Marcus, are your balls exhibiting any negative feedback? Are they shrunken in comparison? Mine don't even shrink on my TRT doses really. How are your lipids on the Nebido? Sex drive? Appetite? It seems cool and convenient as I pretty much deal with a 2 day spike and then 2 days of normal and then nothing. lol

[optionsdude]

Call me a pessimist but I bet all those HRT clinics in Florida (Like the one I use) will not like this new drug unless they can charge an arm and a leg for it because they will not like loosing money on 4 injections a year. Or they just won't carry it. But I think they will they will just make it very expensive so it equals what you would have paid for a year of Test Cyp or E

I asked my clinic about Nebido and you are right they don't like it. The rep told me its just a long acting ester no better than the test cyp. I am currently using. Less injections are better in my book.

[marcus300]

Marcus, are your balls exhibiting any negative feedback? Are they shrunken in comparison? Mine don't even shrink on my TRT doses really. How are your lipids on the Nebido? Sex drive? Appetite? It seems cool and convenient as I pretty much deal with a 2 day spike and then 2 days of normal and then nothing. lol

Ive been on hrt for many years so my testicles have shrunken but thats the normal on hrt unless you apply a hcg protocol.

Ive never been healthier, like ive stated many times my sex drive is like when i was 21yrs old and my blood work is fine, i have no issues what so ever and its far the best hrt ive ever used or tried.Read the whole thread and studies it make interesting reading.

[marcus300]

I asked my clinic about Nebido and you are right they don't like it. The rep told me its just a long acting ester no better than the test cyp. I am currently using. Less injections are better in my book.

If your happy with your hrt then no need to change but your clinic will put you off it because they wont make as much money from it. But trust me imho nebido is far better than cyp or test e but guess you would have to use it to find that out but you can read the studies on it what ive posted in this thread to give you more knowledge on it.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

My doc gives me the vial and needles for my TRT. He won't lose any money if I switch to this since I only see him once every 3-4 months anyway now. In fact, he probably would make more money because of the extra monitoring during the switch from cyp to this.

[marcus300]

My doc gives me the vial and needles for my TRT. He won't lose any money if I switch to this since I only see him once every 3-4 months anyway now. In fact, he probably would make more money because of the extra monitoring during the switch from cyp to this.

If your happy with your current therapy stick with it, but once its available in your Country I am sure your endo will tell you more about it.

[Morrille]

Hey Marcus!
I wonder. Would it have a positive effect on building muscles if U take 1 amp of 1000 mg every 2 weeks? Or is it not possible because of the slow release?

[JimmySidewalk]

It has a very slow release, thus needing only 4 injects per year after frontloading is done. It test undecanoat, the slowest ester.
Because of this, i dont think it would be ideal in muscle building purposes.

BTW 1 amp=4ml

[marcus300]

Hey Marcus!
I wonder. Would it have a positive effect on building muscles if U take 1 amp of 1000 mg every 2 weeks? Or is it not possible because of the slow release?

Yes of course taking 1000mgs every 2 wks will have a positive effect on building muscle tissue. If your using Nebido for your therapy why dont you just blast with Test E or similar.

[Shol'va]

Be prepared to pay some mighty big bucks for this here in the States as it will only be available in name brand and not generic so they will charge out the ying yang just like they do on Androgel .....

[JimmySidewalk]

edit, no price talk, pls read the rules Dont know the situation in US but if you get a prescription order it via internet or on your next european vacation buy a hefty supply of nebido cheaper than US.
The one i'm talking about is a brand from Germany, wont name it because of the rules, though i think its the only one that produces it.

[zaggahamma]

who edit/edited...confused

[JimmySidewalk]

Um.. didnt know that prices are also forbbiden. I thought saying a price with no source is ok, just for informative reasons really.
Well, i guess you will find out for yourselves when you buy

[Shol'va]

Um.. didnt know that prices are also forbbiden. I thought saying a price with no source is ok, just for informative reasons really.
Well, i guess you will find out for yourselves when you buy

I think that legal prescription pharmacy prices can be talked about, as they are well, legal but not the unconventional ways. I will need to reread the rules myself to verify this though. Maybe Marcus or some other monitor will chime in on this.

[marcus300]

Rule 10. There is to be no price discussions of steroids . Price discussions often lead to source discussions, both are not permissible.


Sorry but lets move on from, there is no need to talk about prices.

[JohnnyVegas]

^^^^ Curious about this as well. A few of us on the TRT forum have talked about pharmacy prices and even HCG prices and got away with it. I thought it was because we were talking about totally legit things. Hell, anyone can call CVS pharmacy and get a price quote for a 10ml amp of Cyp 200mg/ml. But, maybe it is against the rules and it just slipped by because no one noticed?

[JimmySidewalk]

Well if marcus grants permission i will re-post the price. Without sources or anything like that of course. Maybe sincer its about TRT and a lot of you use it, you'll succeed in convincing him. Afterall, its just for informative purpose.

Fine by me either way.

[zaggahamma]

Well if marcus grants permission i will re-post the price. Without sources or anything like that of course. Maybe sincer its about TRT and a lot of you use it, you'll succeed in convincing him. Afterall, its just for informative purpose.

Fine by me either way.

no need...noone was asking about price anyway...as j vegas stated, ANYONE can call ANY pharmacy and get their local prices

[marcus300]

It's against the rules pls read rule 10.

Let's move on from price