Durak's TRT Log

[durak]

Putting all this down and updating because as we all know TRT is a art not a science. Every stinkin Dr says something different and we are our best resource for information. Feel free to ask questions or make comments via replies or private message.


Feburary 2010
Symptoms: Tired all the time, concentration poor even with ADD medication, loss of strength, low stamina, low constitution, less decisive in interactions, avoid confrontations (big change)...


Started TRT via anti-aging clinic in Florida
Age = 33
Ht = 5'10
BF = 16 - 18 percent

TRIGLYCERIDES 106 <150 mg/dl
CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL 229 <200 mg/dl
HDL CHOLESTEROL 33 >40 mg/dl
LDL CHOLESTEROL, calc. 175 <100 mg/dl
CHOL/HDL RATIO 6.9 <5.0
HOMOCYSTEINE 12.0 4.5 - 15.0 umol/L

T3, TOTAL 109.0 80 - 200 ng/dl
T4, FREE 1.50 0.9 - 1.7 ng/dl
TSH 2.320 0.27 - 4.2 uIU/ml

LH 2.7 1.7 - 8.6 mIU/ml
FSH 4.4 1.5 - 12.4 mIU/ml

DHEA-SULFATE 354.2 160 - 449 ug/dl

TESTOSTERONE , TOTAL 240 280 - 800 ng/dl
SEX HORMONE BIND GLOBULIN 29 10 - 80 nmol/L
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 2.90 2.4 - 12.2 ng/dl
CORTISOL 13.1

Vitamin D,25-OH,Total 19 >30 ng/ml

Protocol - Cycle with PCT (either 10 or 20 wk then rense and repeat) Everything has to be bought as package from compound pharmacy no substitutes.

Cycle
(Tried to get me to take 400mg of cyp and 200mg of deca but I thought that was too much)
200mg cypionate wk
20mg tamox wk
.75 anastrozol 2xwk

PCT
- HCG (don't remember dose)
- Clomid (don't remember dose)

March 2010

Most symptoms improved. Since of clarity and well being back to where I remember it in the ealry 20's. ADD symptoms almost gone, not even taking that medication anymore.

After 6 weeks on TRT I started getting sore/perky nipps so I started searching for answers. This search ended with changing clinics and protocols.

In an attempt to deal with E2 issues I started 40mg of tamox daily and stayed on anastrozol. Within 5 days I bloated up so bad i could not easily close my left hand and could not wear my wedding ring. Stopped the protocol of tamox and anastrozol. No idea why this happened.

Gained 15lbs during this week but only 2% increase in bf. So lots of water.


April 2010

New protocol with new clinic (mail order only). This clinic does not force me to take take anything. Everything is decided via consult and ends with what I am comfortable with. Not to mention they provided me with a price list up front! No suprises!

Protocol (ongoing no PCT and consult given even for products purchased via other sources)

300mg of cypionate wk (150mg 2x wk)
250 iu 2x wk (instead of in pct)
12.5 mg of exemstane eod (may go to ed) from ar-r (replaced anastrozol)
25-50mcg of T3 daily from ar-r (new)
20-100 mcg of Clen from ar-r (new)
(may switch to 200/200 of cyp/deca)

Ordered blood test kit for Total T and E2 from lab talked about in forum. These results will be posted when I get them.

[Vettester]

Durak, thanks for taking the time to post this log. Interesting information!

Have you noticed anything good or bad with the T3 from AR-R ? Haven't really seen too many people talk about it in this forum.

Also, if you elect to change your protocol to 200/200 Test & Deca , is that something you can just tell your doctor that you want to do and he'll change it up for you?

Curious to see your lab work, so definitely post it up when it is ready. Really wondering how Stane will work for you in comparison to the others. Real weird about that issue you had that one week. Almost sounds like the two had a reaction together or something.

Also, I've recently added AR-R's B12 to the mix too, which I think is also important. Don't know if you're doing it already. It's also a good way to make sure that there's no unused "T" left in the syringe.

[durak]

Have you noticed anything good or bad with the T3 from AR-R? Haven't really seen too many people talk about it in this forum.

The T3 makes me hungry. I can also tell that my temp is up a bit. I actually got the Clen /T3 combo. I will update on the results.

Also, if you elect to change your protocol to 200/200 Test & Deca, is that something you can just tell your doctor that you want to do and he'll change it up for you?

They have a list of items. I can choose the ones I want unless it makes no sense... ex: i wanted to buy estrogen.

So the choice of AAS is up to me and the dose on the front end seems to max around 600mg week. But I am sure that could rise. I am also thinking about adding anavar and deca and switching to propionate instead of cypionate .

Curious to see your lab work, so definitely post it up when it is ready. Really wondering how Stane will work for you in comparison to the others. Real weird about that issue you had that one week. Almost sounds like the two had a reaction together or something.

I think it may have been the tamox. 40mg a day made my body act like it was full of E2. Don;t know though.

Also, I've recently added AR-R's B12 to the mix too, which I think is also important. Don't know if you're doing it already. It's also a good way to make sure that there's no unused "T" left in the syringe.

I am going to add B-12. Can you tell the difference?

[Black]

Great idea to do a log Durak. It's great for readers and it will help you too.

On the subject of B12, I am going to add some soon too. What protocol do you use Vette

[Epic Ed]

Thanks for the update. Keep us posted.

[durak]

Great idea to do a log Durak. It's great for readers and it will help you too.

Yep. I did it because it will help others (i was so lost back in feburary) and I look forward to input. I waited until now because my trt is somewhat stable. So any comment or advice is appreciated!

[Vettester]

Durak, Dante, I just recently in the past few weeks started the B12. I swear I feel like have a little more energy and feel a little more relaxed.

1000mcg/1ml with my Test Cyp. My wife wanted in the fun so she's now getting some of the red juice too.

Durak, so your HRT is basically a la carte? That is maybe the coolest thing I've ever heard of. Are you also telling me that Anavar is on the menu?

[durak]

Durak, Dante, I just recently in the past few weeks started the B12. I swear I feel like have a little more energy and feel a little more relaxed.

1000mcg/1ml with my Test Cyp. My wife wanted in the fun so she's now getting some of the red juice too.

Durak, so your HRT is basically a la carte? That is maybe the coolest thing I've ever heard of. Are you also telling me that Anavar is on the menu?

lol.. but you have insurance that pays.

[durak]

Mid April
Some changes based upon further research. Also found a Dr willing to prescribe everything I need at a regular pharmacy except other tests than cypionate . Blood test for T and E2 will be back soon. Getting full panels done end of month.

Testosterone
Cypionate
reduced to 200mg per wk (100mg 2 x wk)
- felt the cyp was too high (was 400 then 300). I am not working out and really don't want to put on lots of muscle

Fertility
HCG
250ui eod instead of 2 x wk
- further research and member input caused the increase.

Anti-E
Aromasin
reduced to 5mg ed from 12.5 mg eod and changed from ar-r stane
- working well but Dr prescribing at regular pharmacy

Weight loss and additional energy
Cytomel
Changed from ar-r t3 to cytomel 50mcg tablet ed
- Dr willing to prescribe at regular pharmacy

Metformin Xr
Added for reduced food cravings and increased weight loss

Topamax
Added 25-50mg every night at Dr suggestion to reduce sleep eating

Clen
Removed Clen
- Too many factors right now.

to do
Vitamin D levels too low
cholesterol too high
HDL too low

Next Cycle
Removed deca and going with 200mg cyp wk/ 50mg anavar ed plus the HCG , Cytomel, Metformin, and Aromasin
- when bf = 12% I will stop cytomel, metformin and maybe Aromasin but continue Topamax

Anyone feel free to contact me at duraktrt at gmail if you have any questions or thoughts.

[bowers32]

Thanks for posting this log.... I am very intersted in your progress... you are about a month ahead of me so I am looking forward to seeing how it goes for you.

I am also intersted in the things you are taking for weight loss... I am scared of Clen .. so not going that route....my diet and exercise (6 days a week) are really good but man bodyfat just wont let go... and I don't think TRT I am on will be of much help in that regard. So I hope you hope you have great success with some of what you are taking.

[durak]

Thanks for posting this log.... I am very intersted in your progress... you are about a month ahead of me so I am looking forward to seeing how it goes for you.

I am also intersted in the things you are taking for weight loss... I am scared of Clen.. so not going that route....my diet and exercise (6 days a week) are really good but man bodyfat just wont let go... and I don't think TRT I am on will be of much help in that regard. So I hope you hope you have great success with some of what you are taking.

You might find a way to get some Armour (mixture of natural t4/t3) or even Cytomel .

read up on thyroid here: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Many people on trt have thyroid issues.

What is your dosage of test and anti-e?

You go to regular Dr or anti-aging?

[bowers32]

You might find a way to get some Armour (mixture of natural t4/t3) or even Cytomel .

read up on thyroid here: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Many people on trt have thyroid issues.

What is your dosage of test and anti-e?

You go to regular Dr or anti-aging?

It is an anti-aging set-up... taking 210 tes cyp a week, 500 IU HCG (will go down to 250 on week 3) and 1.5mg of anti-e

It is early so no dramatic results yet... I can tell I have slightly more energy, more frequent morning wood, though not every day, and in the gym strength has increased some... doc thinks the big problem with not getting bf off is estrogen was really high... I am hitting the gym hard and have cleaned up the diet big time but scales aren't moving... so just being patient and hoping a couple of months down the road I will get the full affect of TRT that so many here talk about.

I will say that this week (3rd week) I am seeing a little drop off in energy at the end of hte week.. didn't notice that early on.. so not sure if I need to inject twice a week rather than once a week.

Will do a blood test at week 6 and that will tell me where all my levels are so i can see what adjustments need to be made....

Keep posting your results as it is really helpful.

[durak]

It is an anti-aging set-up... taking 210 tes cyp a week, 500 IU HCG (will go down to 250 on week 3) and 1.5mg of anti-e

It is early so no dramatic results yet... I can tell I have slightly more energy, more frequent morning wood, though not every day, and in the gym strength has increased some... doc thinks the big problem with not getting bf off is estrogen was really high... I am hitting the gym hard and have cleaned up the diet big time but scales aren't moving... so just being patient and hoping a couple of months down the road I will get the full affect of TRT that so many here talk about.

I will say that this week (3rd week) I am seeing a little drop off in energy at the end of hte week.. didn't notice that early on.. so not sure if I need to inject twice a week rather than once a week.

Will do a blood test at week 6 and that will tell me where all my levels are so i can see what adjustments need to be made....

Keep posting your results as it is really helpful.

I really recommend pinning twice a week.

[Epic Ed]

Twice a week (1/2 the weekly dose each time) has really leveled things off for me. Highly recommended.

[Vettester]

You guys have got me thinking if I should go 2x/wk. I've been contemplating this for awhile now. Might be time to see if it works for me too.

Good log, Durak. BTW, you mentioned the issue with cholesterol. Is this something you think that you can conquer with lifestyle changes, or will you look at statins or some other script for help? Unfortunately for me it runs in the family and there's no escaping it, no matter how good I eat, exercise, etc. 3 years ago, I took 80mg/ed of Simvastatin. I have been able to cut that down to 40mg x 3 a week with the changes I've made, but can't completely cut it out.

[durak]

you mentioned the issue with cholesterol. Is this something you think that you can conquer with lifestyle changes, or will you look at statins or some other script for help? Unfortunately for me it runs in the family and there's no escaping it, no matter how good I eat, exercise, etc. 3 years ago, I took 80mg/ed of Simvastatin. I have been able to cut that down to 40mg x 3 a week with the changes I've made, but can't completely cut it out.

I want to deal with it in a few months. My wife and I are going to stop eating out and all that stuff. If it starts going down then I will not take meds.

[durak]

Oh and WTF I got crazy deadly gas now. Not a problem the first 6weeks but now wow. No idea why. Maybe the anti-e or t3. When I took cyp 10yrs ago this was not an issue. If it ain't the anti-e add this to the list of what sucks about getting old.

[bowers32]

Oh and WTF I got crazy deadly gas now. Not a problem the first 6weeks but now wow. No idea why. Maybe the anti-e or t3. When I took cyp 10yrs ago this was not an issue. If it ain't the anti-e add this to the list of what sucks about getting old.

yes it is the anti-E..,,, doc told me that would happen to me but I haven't really noticed it... he said that it is getting rid of the gas and bloat that high Estrogem causes..,,

On pinning twic a week... I am hearing some say it is the way to go and others so no..,, plus some are talking about pinning test with a insulin needle rather than a 23 gauge..,,,will that work? I use the insulin needle for the HCG and it is incredibly easy so would love to do that with test,.,,

[durak]

On pinning twic a week... I am hearing some say it is the way to go and others so no..,, plus some are talking about pinning test with a insulin needle rather than a 23 gauge..,,,will that work? I use the insulin needle for the HCG and it is incredibly easy so would love to do that with test,.,,

That is the question of the day... I spent hours today looking into it. As of this moment it looks legit. I am going to look a few other place but am planning on moving to nothing but 29 gauge needles.... I will post my findings with literature cites sometime tomorrow or monday.

[Vettester]

Can barely get it to go through a 25g, I couldn't imagine trying to push it through a 29g.

[durak]

ok, ok..... because I love you guys I will take one for the team and even though I pinned this morning, I will throw myself under that bus and try pinning and additional .5 cc with a 29g .5in right now.

but seriously not because I want to....

It took a bit to draw but actually injected quickly... you guys owe me one.

maybe a happy medium? these are 27g heads so can draw with 18 gauge...
http://hocks.com/hocks-healthcare/ho...t/A283952.html

[Vettester]

This former member tried something similar.

[PPC]

ok, ok..... because I love you guys I will take one for the team and even though I pinned this morning, I will throw myself under that bus and try pinning and additional .5 cc with a 29g .5in right now.

but seriously not because I want to....

It took a bit to draw but actually injected quickly... you guys owe me one.

maybe a happy medium? these are 27g heads so can draw with 18 gauge...
http://hocks.com/hocks-healthcare/ho...t/A283952.html

The syringe with the 29 pin needs to be .5 ml rather than 1 ml. Did you have that one? Apparently there is more pressure with the .5ml syringe so better suited to drawing and shooting for this purpose. Walmart has them.

To load, I just inject air into the vial, then pull the plunger a little past where I want to fill. Once it is full, (after a couple of minutes,) I push back to where the measurment needs to be and any excess air is expelled.

Some walk away and do other things while their insulin syringes are loading. They secure the needle and vial between two items (like between two baskets in the bathroom) and let it do it's thing. Haven't tried this.

[Black]

So are you injecting on the side of your thigh (quad)?

[durak]

So are you injecting on the side of your thigh (quad)?

Yep. Going to look at all options and may even use a 5/8 not the 1/2.

[durak]

Mid April Update

A week ago I mentioned that i had severe swelling and not knowing why. (tamox was suspected).

Earlier this week I decided to try 20mg of tamox daily in place of the 40mg daily. This morning I woke up quite swollen and my hands (nuckles) hurt like they did in early april.

So I must be allergic (or sensitive) to the tamox medication. Never seen this reported before but I am willing to bet on it now... Just an FYI for others out there.

ps. this is tamox from a pharmacy not ar-r .

[durak]

Mid-Late April Update

BW not in until next week. I did make changes with injections. After looking at various sources I decided to break my Cypionate and HCG into 3 weekly injections. These injections are done with slin pin .5in 29g in the outside quad of my leg.

Injections are M/W/F .4cc (80mg) of Cypionate and 250mg of HCG. No pain, no hassle, no worries. Aromasin 12.5mg on wednesday only (72 hour half-life makes this work well).

[Vettester]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

Are you still including the B12? If so, have you noticed anything from it? I actually think it makes me feel more calmer and relaxed, but that just might be perception.

Good luck with your BW. I'm sure you're probably anxious to see how it turns out ... I am too. I know HCG definitely makes an impact on my "T" score.

[durak]

I got the topamax and B12 filled today. There is a reason I take add meds... lol... Need to get everything mail order.

About the T, I am only curious. So many people say 100mg gets you to 800, or 200mg gets you to 800, or more than 200mg is a cycle... just curious.

It will make no impact on my therapy. Many ways to lower it when necessary. Although my goal is about 1000.

[durak]

Finally got the mail order Test Serum back... lol....

lol.....

1997....range 400-1200.

At the time I had taken cyp 400mg wk, HCG 250iu 3x week.

Being that I don't even work out (until this week) that is absurd...I went from 240 to 1997....

Backing it out 300 for the HCG then 1700 attributed to test. so 425 per 100mg of cyp a week.

Currently moved back to 200mg. So maybe will be in line with what I want.

Oh yeah, still have freakin hives. Topamax can take 5 days to get out of the system and the last one I took was on tuesday...

[Black]

Wow! 1997! How was your E2?

300mg a week put me at 1404.

200mg a week + 250iu HCG put me at 1007.

I'm actually thinking about lowering it. I feel good at 1000, but I may feel just as good at 800 (Plus I would save some money and could horde some T!).

[Vettester]

Durak, is everything OK with the CBC panel? Keep an eye on the RBC if you haven't already.

[durak]

I am having a full workup next week.

[oakdad]

"Aromasin 12.5mg on wednesday only (72 hour half-life makes this work well). "
Just so you know your have the 7 and 2 in the wrong order. The half life is 27 hours which is why I take it once a day at half that.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exemestane

[durak]

Thanks! That was actually a mistake on my part. I noticed water retention (wedding ring got tight) so I had moved to 12.5mg ed. It makes sense now.

[durak]

Wow! 1997! How was your E2?

300mg a week put me at 1404.

200mg a week + 250iu HCG put me at 1007.

I'm actually thinking about lowering it. I feel good at 1000, but I may feel just as good at 800 (Plus I would save some money and could horde some T!).

E2 is 43, I was taking a 12.5mg of stane a day at the time.

After thinking about it, I gave the blood sample one week after I did my initial 2000ui 3x.

My bloodwork is covered now so I will get the following next week and post the results.

tosterone, Total
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) Sulfate
Estradiol
Homocysteine
C-Reactive Protein (Cardiac) (High Sensitivity)
PSA
Hemoglobin A1C
IGF-1
Cortisol
FSH/LH
TSH
T4 Free
Fasting Insulin
Sex Hormone Binding
Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone (TSH)
Tri-iodothyronine (T3), Free, Serum
Thyroxine (T4)
Reverse T3
Thyroid Antibodies
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies
Red Cell Magnesium
Vitamin D 25 OH

[durak]

Update May 2009

Lots to cover.

Been in hospital on and off for allergic reaction to B12 shots. Really bad stuff and a warning to the rare few that are allergic.

Current Protocol
200mg Cypionate per week
250iu of HCG 2 times week
12.5mg Aromasin eod.
adding 50mg anavar ed.

Bloodwork
Cortisol 2
E2 61
Ferritin 12 (22-322)
LH <1 (1.5 - 9.3)
Testosterone 696 (241-827)
Free Test 218 (47-277)
IGF-1 247 (115-307)
Free T4 1.19 (.89 - 1.76)
Free T3 3.27 (2.3 - 4.2)
TSH 3.7 (.35 - 4)
Thyroid antibodies 221 (< 41)
Thyroid Peroxidase 159 (< 36)
Homocystene 12.8 (3.7 - 13.9)
Reverse T3 is pending

[Epic Ed]

Wow -- so it was the B12? Hospitalized? The hives must have gotten pretty severe. Hope you're out of the woods now.

[Vettester]

Durak, I really like your protocol. I like how you've made some adjustments when things didn't seem to be going right. I think your numbers got a little high, and you're probably feeling a lot better by cutting it down a bit.

Yeah, the B12 thing is rare, but does exists. Truly sucks that you have the allergy card for that stuff.

I see the E2 crept up a bit, but stick to your protocol it should drop back in the 40's and below in short time.

Hope you're getting back on track!

[durak]

Wow -- so it was the B12? Hospitalized? The hives must have gotten pretty severe. Hope you're out of the woods now.

Yep... enough to put me in anaphylactic shock twice. Today is the last day of my medicine and I will know soon if I am doomed for another few visits. They said it could start/stop for about a month.

My bloodwork points to some areas of opportunity.
Bloodwork

[B]E2 61[B]
Will up my anti-e and get this down to around 20.

[B]
Ferritin 12 (22-322)[B]
This is new to me so I will need to look into it.


TSH 3.7 (.35 - 4)
Thyroid antibodies 221 (< 41)
Thyroid Peroxidase 159 (< 36)
Reverse T3 is pending

These numbers are bad. Will need to get medical opinion. In general hypothyroidism I think.