TRT Program - Vetteman08

[eregitano]

This is one area that luckily isn't a concern. I've got the same hairline that I had when I was 15. In fact, I always have my stylist thin it out for me even after it's cut short, just because I feel it's too thick. Genetics I guess.

you bastard! Generally speaking does TRT effect DHT and hairloss?

[Vettester]

you bastard! Generally speaking does TRT effect DHT and hairloss?

Yes, this is definitely one of the possible sides a person can get with TRT. As I understand it, most guys start seeing it if they are already prone to having hair loss. If anything, I'm seeing more hair on/around my whole body. I've even had a few hairs start poking out half way up my shaft ... WTF!

[eregitano]

Yes, this is definitely one of the possible sides a person can get with TRT. As I understand it, most guys start seeing it if they are already prone to having hair loss. If anything, I'm seeing more hair on/around my whole body. I've even had a few hairs start poking out half way up my shaft ... WTF!

ha, that's called getting old my friend. I will say though, when using the androgel before the Cyp i noticed hair growth on my shoulders and arms a bit. Nothing crazy, but it never grew there before. Test, def brings a man back into being a savage to some extent.

[nwjt]

Is your doctor prescribing everything you are taking, and is insurance covering what is being prescribed?

[Vettester]

Is your doctor prescribing everything you are taking, and is insurance covering what is being prescribed?

Everything I take has a legal prescription attached to it. Unfortunately, I pay out of pocket.

[nwjt]

How did you get your doc to prescribe you the anavar ?

[Vettester]

How did you get your doc to prescribe you the anavar?

I told him that I had pictures of him with his secretary, and if he didn't give me what I want I would send them to his wife ... JK

Seriously, doctors & HRT Clinics are a funny thing. It seems that all of them have their own ideologies with what is correct and proper for us, the patients. I've been through the gamut with doctors, endos & a few clinics. The contrast is amazing, as for each of them promotes a program that contradicts the other one. Who is right? I dunno, but all of them will say that they are if you ask them.

I guess I'm taking the long route here to answer your question, but the truth is I'm with a clinic that essentially offers this compound to its qualified clients. I didn't have to do any real begging. There are a few clinics out there that do indeed prescribe it.

[Epic Ed]

Hey, noticed you're changing from Cyanocobalamin to methylcobalamin. Why's that?

[Vettester]

Hey, noticed you're changing from Cyanocobalamin to methylcobalamin. Why's that?

Check out this article, http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/...alamin?blog=27

I'll report any noticeable differences once I start taking it.

[rmacgurn]

Hey, noticed you're changing from Cyanocobalamin to methylcobalamin. Why's that?

gosh i read back thru this thread twice and cannot see where you saw that Vette changed the B12 but now that i read this article he quotes i want to know where to find this type as my sups contain the cyanide version and i don't like that....are you still using inject with the test or have you found an oral version of this new from of B12?

[Vettester]

gosh i read back thru this thread twice and cannot see where you saw that Vette changed the B12 but now that i read this article he quotes i want to know where to find this type as my sups contain the cyanide version and i don't like that....are you still using inject with the test or have you found an oral version of this new from of B12?

In my opening post I mentioned making the switch. I can get the methylcob from my clinic. Like I mentioned, it's a bit pricier (almost 4x), but it will hopefully be worth it. It is also administered by injection, so I will use it to flush out my Testosterone in the syringe.

[Vettester]

OK guys, remind me not to do anymore shots in the fvcking quad! WTF was I thinking? I couldn't finish so I had to reload a new pin and hit the glutes. My right quad feels like I just got through squatting.

Anyone have a successful technique for this area?

[Vettester]

Also, I ran the complete BW and urine panel this morning. Might be Monday or so before getting back.

I've been reading Dr. John's stuff and I'm serious about adding some DHEA and pregnenolone to my regiment. His reports indicate that the addition of these hormones, along with HCG , will help to restore natural hormonal pathways that have been basically abandoned since the HPTA got suppressed from TRT. Sounds like a method to restore some additional balance, which is a good thing.

I've also had low progesterone, we'll see how it comes up with this current test that I'm running. I'm curious if the deca I've been taking has contributed to any conversion into progest?

[Mr.Rose]

OK guys, remind me not to do anymore shots in the fvcking quad! WTF was I thinking? I couldn't finish so I had to reload a new pin and hit the glutes. My right quad feels like I just got through squatting.

Anyone have a successful technique for this area?

Which muscle are you hitting into the quad? You should be targeting the peak of the vastus lateralis.

I only shoot my quads and right now am hitting ED injections. I can't reach my glutes no more.

[Mr.Rose]

Also, I ran the complete BW and urine panel this morning. Might be Monday or so before getting back.

I've been reading Dr. John's stuff and I'm serious about adding some DHEA and pregnenolone to my regiment. His reports indicate that the addition of these hormones, along with HCG , will help to restore natural hormonal pathways that have been basically abandoned since the HPTA got suppressed from TRT. Sounds like a method to restore some additional balance, which is a good thing.

I've also had low progesterone, we'll see how it comes up with this current test that I'm running. I'm curious if the deca I've been taking has contributed to any conversion into progest?

Would your doctor prescribe you DHEA and preg? Or would it be a self administration. Im curious for when i get on TRT.

[stevey_6t9]

Would your doctor prescribe you DHEA and preg? Or would it be a self administration. Im curious for when i get on TRT.

thats my boy lol

[Mr.Rose]

thats my boy lol

.

Find me a good doctor you SOB.

[oakdad]

For hitting the Quad I stand up flex it and mark where it peeks just above the knee and sticks out the most with a pen then inject about a half inch up and in from there.

[PPC]

Also, I ran the complete BW and urine panel this morning. Might be Monday or so before getting back.

I've been reading Dr. John's stuff and I'm serious about adding some DHEA and pregnenolone to my regiment. His reports indicate that the addition of these hormones, along with HCG , will help to restore natural hormonal pathways that have been basically abandoned since the HPTA got suppressed from TRT. Sounds like a method to restore some additional balance, which is a good thing.

I've also had low progesterone, we'll see how it comes up with this current test that I'm running. I'm curious if the deca I've been taking has contributed to any conversion into progest?

Are you planning on using dhea and preg transderamlly? There are lots of threads over on Dr John's forum about how these hormones, especially dhea can mess with E2 and lower cortisol too much when taken orally. My husband cannot tolerate oral dhea, his E2 shoots way up.

Dr J mentioned a couple of months ago that he wants all his patients on transdernal dhea now. It doesn't seem to have the same negative effects.

Oral preg can be great for some and terrible for others. It can act like a 5-AR. My brother started out at 50 mg, felt fantastic, especially better brain function then moved up to 100mg daily. Two weeks after that, he had a strange episode, almost like a minor stroke where he couldn't think properly or even finish his game of chess. Took him a couple of months after stopping the preg to feel 'right.'

I listened to one of Dr J's radio interviews the other day and he talked about how oral preg can sometimes lead to 'stupor' like episodes in men who take it. That fit with the symptoms my brother experienced. He reccomends transdermal application for this hormone also.

Have you tested your cortisol levels via saliva? Some with low progesterone also have low cortisol but you know better than most that there are no absolutes with hormones in individuals and the way they swim down stream. Some have great results simply popping these hormones orally.

[Vettester]

Which muscle are you hitting into the quad? You should be targeting the peak of the vastus lateralis.

I only shoot my quads and right now am hitting ED injections. I can't reach my glutes no more.

Yeah, it was that area. Part of it I think is just getting used to it and not getting tense. I've never done it there, and I've got to admit there was just a bit of anxiety watching that needle go it. I was on the upper portion of the lateralis, maybe I'll try it again, but go down a little further into the middle of that area. I remember how the glutes used to be sore in the beginning too, but now it doesn't phase me at all (during or after).

[Vettester]

For hitting the Quad I stand up flex it and mark where it peeks just above the knee and sticks out the most with a pen then inject about a half inch up and in from there.

Thanks, looking at it I might have been a little higher than that. I'll reconsider maybe giving it another shot.

[pittbulldad]

OK guys, remind me not to do anymore shots in the fvcking quad! WTF was I thinking? I couldn't finish so I had to reload a new pin and hit the glutes. My right quad feels like I just got through squatting.

Anyone have a successful technique for this area?

I found this post a few months back.. pretty informative on doing pins..

[Vettester]

Would your doctor prescribe you DHEA and preg? Or would it be a self administration. Im curious for when i get on TRT.

Yes, I would definitely do it with a script through the doc at my clinic. I travel quite a bit so that's one less thing I have to worry about if someone at TSA or customs decides to question what's in my bag.

Are you planning on using dhea and preg transderamlly? There are lots of threads over on Dr John's forum about how these hormones, especially dhea can mess with E2 and lower cortisol too much when taken orally. My husband cannot tolerate oral dhea, his E2 shoots way up.

Oral preg can be great for some and terrible for others. It can act like a 5-AR. My brother started out at 50 mg, felt fantastic, especially better brain function then moved up to 100mg daily. Two weeks after that, he had a strange episode, almost like a minor stroke where he couldn't think properly or even finish his game of chess. Took him a couple of months after stopping the preg to feel 'right.'

Have you tested your cortisol levels via saliva? Some with low progesterone also have low cortisol but you know better than most that there are no absolutes with hormones in individuals and the way they swim down stream. Some have great results simply popping these hormones orally.

Was planning on going transdermal before reading this ... After reading your post it's almost a no brainer that I would definitely go with transdermal. That would be terrible to go through what your brother went through. Was this definitely attributed as a side effect from the oral preg? I don't need anything like that to happen!

No, I've never done this cortisol saliva test. My lab offers it in a urinary test (free) or serum (am, pm). I'll see what my current progesterone results are and go from there. It was rock bottom low, but maybe the deca has brought it up a little. I'm not overly focused on this one, but won't complain if it comes up a little.

Thanks for sharing this information with me. Very helpful! BTW, has my avi grown on you a little? LOL

[nwjt]

Thats all I have done so far is quads. I was using 22 G needes, just picked up some 25 g needles.

Not any problems so far except last time I hit a nerve, ouch!

I pin about half way between my need and my hip, right where the musle is the biggest. Maybe I'll make a vid of me doing it to get some feedback.

[Vettester]

I found this post a few months back.. pretty informative on doing pins..

PBD, what post are you referring to?

[Vettester]

Thats all I have done so far is quads. I was using 22 G needes, just picked up some 25 g needles.

Not any problems so far except last time I hit a nerve, ouch!

I pin about half way between my need and my hip, right where the musle is the biggest. Maybe I'll make a vid of me doing it to get some feedback.

Video, yes!!! Would love to see you go to town.

I used a 25g myself. Again, like a lot of things, the first time isn't always the best.

[nwjt]

5/6 injections so far have made become light headed afterwards, I have to lay down for a few minutes. I just freak myself out, I am hoping the thinner needles will help out. Last time I hit a nerver and I nearly puked!

Also, yes I do get pretty sore. I found if Pin about an hour before I do squats, and then do some cardio afterwards it helps, the pain from the squats helps mask the pain from the pinning. Unfortunately My routine has changed and my pinning has to be on schedule. I get a nice knot where I pin and it hurts when I stretch it.

I assumed no matter where I inject it would hurt! Too scared to try anywhere else. My pharmacy is stingy with needles so I think I'll hit up arr and get some different ones and try them out in different places.

[nwjt]

I'm pinning today, I will make a vid for feedback.

ALso plan on hitting up arr, do you think the B12 they sell is good enough to use with TRT? I just want to get all the test out.

Also when you draw the test out, do you use a separate needle than the one you use to draw the B12? I don draw and poke with the same needle but not sure if I use the B12 needle to draw the test if I'll conatminate the test.

[Vettester]

I'm pinning today, I will make a vid for feedback.

ALso plan on hitting up arr, do you think the B12 they sell is good enough to use with TRT? I just want to get all the test out.

Also when you draw the test out, do you use a separate needle than the one you use to draw the B12? I don draw and poke with the same needle but not sure if I use the B12 needle to draw the test if I'll conatminate the test.

I've used ARR's B12. The only thing they sell is the cyanocobalamin, and as you've read in my earlier posts I'm going to get the methylcobalamin, which appears to have better benefits.

I use a 18g to draw everything first. I alcohol wipe the needle before and after, as well as cleaning the top of the vials every time. I switch out to a 25g. If a few drops get in the Test vial, it will just bead up a little and stay suspended there.

[nwjt]

Do you know if pharmacies sell injectable b12 or is it s prescription in the us? I don't have to have b12, just need something to empty the syringe.

[Vettester]

Do you know if pharmacies sell injectable b12 or is it s prescription in the us? I don't have to have b12, just need something to empty the syringe.

Ummm ... I don't think you can pick the injection B12 up with just walking in the pharmacy unless given a script. Might be wrong though. If not, I'd just get it through ARR unless you have a clinic or doc that can easily write it up for you.

[pittbulldad]

PBD, what post are you referring to?

How To Inject

this one.. the one i meant to add to my post.. doh

[nwjt]

Hye vettman, I use a 1" needle to draw from the vial. Can I re-use that needle to draw again later? I have been using anew one everytime but it would be nice to just keep using the same one.

Can I use this instead of B-12, just put a bit in before the test and it will push all the test out?
http://www.ar-r.com/accessories/bact...ater-30ml.html

[rmacgurn]

Also, I ran the complete BW and urine panel this morning. Might be Monday or so before getting back.

I've been reading Dr. John's stuff and I'm serious about adding some DHEA and pregnenolone to my regiment. His reports indicate that the addition of these hormones, along with HCG , will help to restore natural hormonal pathways that have been basically abandoned since the HPTA got suppressed from TRT. Sounds like a method to restore some additional balance, which is a good thing.

I've also had low progesterone, we'll see how it comes up with this current test that I'm running. I'm curious if the deca I've been taking has contributed to any conversion into progest?

Hey Vette

interesting i have been taking 7 keto DHEA which supposedly does not alter the e2, test balance, but i have not checked cortisol or progesterone in a year, last check on DHEA was before i started and it was in the gutter. so have been taking 50mg 6daw, i always forget one day... post up your numbers and when i get back to CR i will get mine checked. I took pregn way back when i lived up north and i cannot recall what it did for me or why i quit, maybe cause i changed docs about once a year...haha

informal poll which avitar u like better me or ex...

[Vettester]

Hye vettman, I use a 1" needle to draw from the vial. Can I re-use that needle to draw again later? I have been using anew one everytime but it would be nice to just keep using the same one.

Can I use this instead of B-12, just put a bit in before the test and it will push all the test out?
http://www.ar-r.com/accessories/bact...ater-30ml.html

My personal philosophy is that the needles get used once and that's it. I'm kind of a stickler about stuff like that.

Yeah, you could use a little bac water, but B12 makes a lot more sense IMO.

[Vettester]

Hey Vette

interesting i have been taking 7 keto DHEA which supposedly does not alter the e2, test balance, but i have not checked cortisol or progesterone in a year, last check on DHEA was before i started and it was in the gutter. so have been taking 50mg 6daw, i always forget one day... post up your numbers and when i get back to CR i will get mine checked. I took pregn way back when i lived up north and i cannot recall what it did for me or why i quit, maybe cause i changed docs about once a year...haha

informal poll which avitar u like better me or ex...

rmac, good stuff!! So the 7 Keto DHEA is tablets, right? I'll post the results when they come in. When you took the Preg was it transdermal?

Me gusto tu avi nuevo! Don't tell me that she's one of your little hotties down in Costa Rica! A back view shot is always welcomed too!

[rmacgurn]

rmac, good stuff!! So the 7 Keto DHEA is tablets, right? I'll post the results when they come in. When you took the Preg was it transdermal?

Me gusto tu avi nuevo! Don't tell me that she's one of your little hotties down in Costa Rica! A back view shot is always welcomed too!

yes tablets for Keto and also caps for the preg...from compounding pharmacy in phx. No she is an ex from Medellin Colombia, back there now, but i knew here here in Panama where she was working at the time. not sure what i was thinking when i let her go back....100% natural unlike many from that city...

[PPC]

Yes, I would definitely do it with a script through the doc at my clinic. I travel quite a bit so that's one less thing I have to worry about if someone at TSA or customs decides to question what's in my bag.



Was planning on going transdermal before reading this ... After reading your post it's almost a no brainer that I would definitely go with transdermal. That would be terrible to go through what your brother went through. Was this definitely attributed as a side effect from the oral preg? I don't need anything like that to happen!

No, I've never done this cortisol saliva test. My lab offers it in a urinary test (free) or serum (am, pm). I'll see what my current progesterone results are and go from there. It was rock bottom low, but maybe the deca has brought it up a little. I'm not overly focused on this one, but won't complain if it comes up a little.

Thanks for sharing this information with me. Very helpful! BTW, has my avi grown on you a little? LOL

The stupor effect my brother endured was definitely from the oral preg according to him. He's going to be give transdermal preg a go here soon since he loved the sharpening effect preg had on his brain function at first.

I think getting progesterone into range is a good goal to support cortisol and protect the prostate but here's a direct quote from Dr John on that subject as of this morning. I hope this is okay to paste.

"PROG above 1.2 is strongly associated with sexual dysfunction--even when all the sex hormones are tuned up. "

So....I guess there's a sweet spot for progesterone too that one needs to seek as a male along with E2.

If you do decide to test cortisol it would probably be best if you do a morning serum test. That will be the best first indicator as cortisol should be highest first thing in the morning. If it is low then I'd run a 4X saliva test throughout the day and see where you are at other times.

Your avatar? It's not doing anything for me yet even after two glasses of wine. I'm sure it is a day maker for most others on this forum though LOL.

[rmacgurn]

The stupor effect my brother endured was definitely from the oral preg according to him. He's going to be give transdermal preg a go here soon since he loved the sharpening effect preg had on his brain function at first.

I think getting progesterone into range is a good goal to support cortisol and protect the prostate but here's a direct quote from Dr John on that subject as of this morning. I hope this is okay to paste.

"PROG above 1.2 is strongly associated with sexual dysfunction--even when all the sex hormones are tuned up. "

So....I guess there's a sweet spot for progesterone too that one needs to seek as a male along with E2.

I've recently been using HC in small doses to support my adrenals. I'm weaning off to try and see if using pregnenolone alone will do the job. If it does then it will kill two birds with one stone as I have to supplement high doses of progesterone for my cycles and hopefully preg will end up down stream as more of both cortisol and progesterone. I think with women, there is less chance of the negative effects of it becoming a 5-AR....we'll see.

It would probably be best if you get a morning serum cortisol test. That will be the best first indicator as cortisol should be highest first thing in the morning. If it is low then I'd run a 4X saliva test throughout the day and see where you are at other times.

Your avatar? It's not doing anything for me yet even after two glasses of wine. I'm sure it makes the day for most others on this forum though LOL.

heck i guess i need glasses and a brain defogger too....i thought we were talking about Pregnenolone. that is what i took, never used progesterone orally or gel/cream. remember i started on this stuff a long time ago, before many things where figured out i guess. As i recall preg is a step or wo away from conversion to progesterone. that is why i was on it to sort of give my body a chance to balance hormones out naturally...still not clear why i quit may have to wait for those nootropics to come in. so now you think i need to check my cortisol levels too...heck as long as my PSA is ok and i can pee no more then 2 times a night (once if i don't drink a ton of water after 9pm), then i thought all was ok...then you come along and burst my bubble.

Avitar:Yeah it is hard for me to look at her face a lot too, knowing i thought there was a better one just around the corner....sometimes i have no idea where i get these thoughts....

[nwjt]

Vettman, put a vid up for ya in another thread in this section.