TRT Program - Vetteman08

**crg** · 07-17-2010, 07:36 AM

got a nug question on the oatmeal: whats the diff between just eating the stuff as aspposed to mixing in a shake? preference or digestability, etc? hope that hasent been covered and I just missed it. thanks

**megustatetas** · 07-17-2010, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by crg

got a nug question on the oatmeal: whats the diff between just eating the stuff as aspposed to mixing in a shake? preference or digestability, etc? hope that hasent been covered and I just missed it. thanks

I cannot say for sure if one is better then the other, but i have tried to eat it cooked and cannot get myself to do it twice a day, much less with lots of cinnamon, and tumeric in it. I believe things are better uncooked and processed when you have the option. that is why i use integral oatmeal, besides i am used to doing shakes for protein so a couple more, sometimes with protein powder are no biggy....and of course doing it in shakes helped me lower my total chol and LDL 138 points in about 6 weeks.

**megustatetas** · 07-17-2010, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

What on earth are you on about, i'm the one who is saying nearly everything what comes out of China is fake,why would I try and hide lab test what show they are fake when thats what i am trying to do!

do you have mental health issues rmacgurn? i guess you do, trying to pass yourself off as another member and getting caught must show your mentality, but then again its probably your fake GH.

We all know why you was banned and why your going to be again!

God what is it with this place lately, is it knobhead week.

Again with insults...I came back because i like the people on this thread TRT/Anti-aging, i have 12+ years exp in the field, i have contributed and learned at the same time, and made friends here. i have no idea what you are talking about and was never told any reason for your actions. I only tried to help, and have tested HGH from many sources before and now. edit against the rules

I guess you are right about one thing....i must be mental or crazy as you say to assume if i am honest and keep trying to help i might succeed when all that happens is the same things, posts deleted and i am called names...or insulted...and your members that are genuinely trying to discover how, and where to test are no closer to a solution..

**marcus300** · 07-17-2010, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by megustatetas

Again with insults...I came back because i like the people on this thread TRT/Anti-aging, i have 12+ years exp in the field, i have contributed and learned at the same time, and made friends here. i have no idea what you are talking about and was never told any reason for your actions. I only tried to help, and have tested HGH from many sources before and now. edit against the rules

I guess you are right about one thing....i must be mental or crazy as you say to assume if i am honest and keep trying to help i might succeed when all that happens is the same things, posts deleted and i am called names...or insulted...and your members that are genuinely trying to discover how, and where to test are no closer to a solution..

You broke the rules thats why you are banned, it is also against the rules to come back after you are banned.........Stop playing the victim you know why you was banned.

***Admin*** · 07-17-2010, 10:11 AM

You were banned because members sent me source checks for you... having nothing to do with Marcus at all... So you may get who you want to direct your anger at in control... I have been sent on more than one occasion from members (more than one) that you gave them a list and prices to buy products... which constitutes being a source... thusly you were banned...

Having good advice is not the issue...I am here to treat every member the same... I have banned several that I enjoyed their knowledgeable posts or humor, however they broke the rules which I am here to uphold...

.

**Vettester** · 07-17-2010, 03:54 PM

Meg, appreciate all of your help. Don't know if anyone has found away to make it back, but if you find away to work it out with the mods then make a deal and get your a$$ back here! You might have to get your ex-gf that was in your original avi and fly her out to to meet Marcus, ADMIN, and Big, with hopes to negotiate your return. Please send her to LA first so that I can give her the proper training

Good luck!

OK ... I'll try to reel this in a little ...
Got my Pregnenolone (200mg/ml) and DHEA (5%); both transdermal. The doctor is saying 1ml, or about a teaspoon of each 1x every day. If anyone has done a different protocol with this stuff, please let me know.

The new B12 Methycobalamin is great! I took 1000mcg last night and felt unbelievable.

**nwjt** · 07-17-2010, 09:43 PM

I called up my TRT doc and asked about injectable B12, they never heard of it or have prescribed it.

**Vettester** · 07-17-2010, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by nwjt

I called up my TRT doc and asked about injectable B12, they never heard of it or have prescribed it.

I thought that that everyone and their brother has at least heard of B12 injections. Seriously??? TRT doctor that doesn't even know this exists? That one has got me stymied!!

**nwjt** · 07-17-2010, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

I thought that that everyone and their brother has at least heard of B12 injections. Seriously??? TRT doctor that doesn't even know this exists? That one has got me stymied!!

I talked to the nurse, not the doc, but its not something the prescribe. They may do injections in the office though.

I just want something to push the test out, do you think some cottonseed oil or that bacteristic (sp) water will suffice?

**Vitruvian-Man** · 07-17-2010, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by nwjt

I talked to the nurse, not the doc, but its not something the prescribe. They may do injections in the office though.

I just want something to push the test out, do you think some cottonseed oil or that bacteristic (sp) water will suffice?

Just get some sterile grapeseed oil, or cotton seed oil..

That nurse you talked to must be clueless. You can get B12 injections anywhere. Hell, they offer them at my chiropractors office.

-VM

**Vettester** · 07-17-2010, 10:25 PM

If you're doing injections on your own, just order some B12 from ARR. If you want something to push the "T" out, you might as well get something that will give you some therapeutic benefit.

**zaggahamma** · 07-18-2010, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

I thought that that everyone and their brother has at least heard of B12 injections. Seriously??? TRT doctor that doesn't even know this exists? That one has got me stymied!!

still surprised huh

**Vettester** · 07-18-2010, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

still surprised huh

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't be too shocked when I hear this stuff, but I figured B12 was in the same league as aspirin when brought up in general discussion. I guess with docs I need to quit presuming the obvious.

**Skyhawk** · 07-20-2010, 09:36 AM

Hi everyone. I've been reading up on this forum for about a month now and just joined over the weekend. Alot of good info on here. I am 39 years old and weigh 185 lbs. at 5'10" and about 15%. I was diagnosed with low test(153) a few months back and my endo started me on testim. I tried that for 2 months and asked him to put me on injections. He gave me a shot of 350mgs. and told me to come back in 3 weeks. When I went back I told him it worked fine except it didn't last 3 weeks. He gave me another injection and said come back in 2 weeks. I have a couple questions if anyone can help. First, it's been one week since the injection. I go back next week. Would it affect my test next week if I were to use some of the gel? If not, when should be the last time I apply it before I am tested next tues? I don't want to raise my test and take a chance of not getting the injections. I would really like to get in shape and start taking care of my body. Any advice?

**Skyhawk** · 07-20-2010, 09:39 AM

Thanks for the info vetteman.

**zaggahamma** · 07-20-2010, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Skyhawk

Hi everyone. I've been reading up on this forum for about a month now and just joined over the weekend. Alot of good info on here. I am 39 years old and weigh 185 lbs. at 5'10" and about 15%. I was diagnosed with low test(153) a few months back and my endo started me on testim. I tried that for 2 months and asked him to put me on injections. He gave me a shot of 350mgs. and told me to come back in 3 weeks. When I went back I told him it worked fine except it didn't last 3 weeks. He gave me another injection and said come back in 2 weeks. I have a couple questions if anyone can help. First, it's been one week since the injection. I go back next week. Would it affect my test next week if I were to use some of the gel? If not, when should be the last time I apply it before I am tested next tues? I don't want to raise my test and take a chance of not getting the injections. I would really like to get in shape and start taking care of my body. Any advice?

your test would be affected if gel was applied instead of doing nothing of course...
sounds like the doctor is trying to work with you and find a good dose....wait until your set/dialed in on a good dose before you try anything added if u must at all...
u should be able to achieve what you werent before on the 350 every two weeks although ANY one on this board will tell u that it would be better to split that dose and go every week instead

**Skyhawk** · 07-20-2010, 11:12 AM

I've read several people say that it's best to take weekly injections. I'm going to talk to him next week about it. And I'm thinking about trying to do the injections myself. $40 copay for each visit sucks. Hopefully I will have the nerve to do it.

**pittbulldad** · 07-20-2010, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

I thought that that everyone and their brother has at least heard of B12 injections. Seriously??? TRT doctor that doesn't even know this exists? That one has got me stymied!!

yeah thats a bit crazy.. i work in cancer clinics and we handed out b-12 shots like they were candy...

**pittbulldad** · 07-20-2010, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Skyhawk

Hi everyone. I've been reading up on this forum for about a month now and just joined over the weekend. Alot of good info on here. I am 39 years old and weigh 185 lbs. at 5'10" and about 15%. I was diagnosed with low test(153) a few months back and my endo started me on testim. I tried that for 2 months and asked him to put me on injections. He gave me a shot of 350mgs. and told me to come back in 3 weeks. When I went back I told him it worked fine except it didn't last 3 weeks. He gave me another injection and said come back in 2 weeks. I have a couple questions if anyone can help. First, it's been one week since the injection. I go back next week. Would it affect my test next week if I were to use some of the gel? If not, when should be the last time I apply it before I am tested next tues? I don't want to raise my test and take a chance of not getting the injections. I would really like to get in shape and start taking care of my body. Any advice?

what is he injecting you with?

**Skyhawk** · 07-20-2010, 01:14 PM

Not sure. He just told me it was 300mgs of testosterone . I plan on finding out next visit.

**Vettester** · 07-20-2010, 02:49 PM

Skyhawk, in addition to the conversation you're going to have with your doc about Test, talk to him about his thoughts on getting (or needing) a AI for helping with estrogen control. Also talk to him about HCG to keep the testes from shrinking.

**crg** · 07-20-2010, 03:20 PM

VM
What were your T levels like before you started w/HCG ?
Since HCG increases your test just wondering how much of an increase you picked up by adding the HCG?
If I could get my hands on a few months worth of HCG I think I'd try it in place of the T I'm taking and see what my levels would be? Sub Q vs IM, I'll take the Sub Q and add the Test when I want to do small dosage cycles..thoughts?

**Vettester** · 07-20-2010, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by crg

VM
What were your T levels like before you started w/HCG ?
Since HCG increases your test just wondering how much of an increase you picked up by adding the HCG?
If I could get my hands on a few months worth of HCG I think I'd try it in place of the T I'm taking and see what my levels would be? Sub Q vs IM, I'll take the Sub Q and add the Test when I want to do small dosage cycles..thoughts?

The HCG seems to add about 150 points to my numbers. So, 200mg of cyp will usually put me at/around 850 by itself, with HCG (300iu x 2/wk) I will be a bit over 1000. Since removing the deca out of my program, I've cut my Cyp down to 150mg/wk. 150mg will put me usually around 600-650, so hopefully I'll be around 800 total with my HCG protocol. I'll run more labs in Sept.

I'm not a fan of the HCG only protocol. You would probably have to increase the dosage of it to equal the same levels that you were getting with Cyp/Eth. Too much HCG can backfire and cause desensitization issues with the leydig cells. With HCG, do as little as possible, but enough to achieve the results. Yes, SubQ is the only way to go IMO on HCG.

**Vettester** · 07-28-2010, 10:44 PM

Since taking the DHEA 5% and Prenenolone; both transdermal, I've noticed a nauseous sensation at times in the mornings, and somewhat of a an anxiety like feeling at times, kind of hard to describe. On the other hand, my brain seems to go into some deep thoughts and a lot of vivid memories seem to come to the surface rather easily. I just don't like the waking up part in the middle of the night with a certain anxious feeling.

Not sure if this is common with one or the other, or both. I know the pregnenolone is noted for adding stimulation and enhancement to the brain. I've adjusted my doses down to 1/2ml on each. Also taking in the morning too, which I should have done from the start. I'm presuming my body is just getting familiar with the introduction of these meds. Anyone with similar sides please let me know. - Thanks!

**zaggahamma** · 07-29-2010, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

Since taking the DHEA 5% and Prenenolone; both transdermal, I've noticed a nauseous sensation at times in the mornings, and somewhat of a an anxiety like feeling at times, kind of hard to describe. On the other hand, my brain seems to go into some deep thoughts and a lot of vivid memories seem to come to the surface rather easily. I just don't like the waking up part in the middle of the night with a certain anxious feeling.

Not sure if this is common with one or the other, or both. I know the pregnenolone is noted for adding stimulation and enhancement to the brain. I've adjusted my doses down to 1/2ml on each. Also taking in the morning too, which I should have done from the start. I'm presuming my body is just getting familiar with the introduction of these meds. Anyone with similar sides please let me know. - Thanks!

what was the pregnenolone for again in your case

**Vettester** · 07-29-2010, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

what was the pregnenolone for again in your case

It was prescribed to help the production and balance of other hormones, progesterone, DHEA, and adrenal support, along with neuron support. It appears to be a key catalyst with helping to balance and optimize the endocrine system function. It's got the nickname of being the Mother of all hormones. Dr. Crissler describes it as "Restoring natural hormone pathways".

**zaggahamma** · 07-29-2010, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

It was prescribed to help the production and balance of other hormones, progesterone, DHEA, and adrenal support, along with neuron support. It appears to be a key catalyst with helping to balance and optimize the endocrine system function. It's got the nickname of being the Mother of all hormones. Dr. Crissler describes it as "Restoring natural hormone pathways".

i'm thinking that i should actually just go the anti aging clinic route...i preach it but i dont practice it....how often and where do they do follow up blood work

**Vettester** · 07-29-2010, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

i'm thinking that i should actually just go the anti aging clinic route...i preach it but i dont practice it....how often and where do they do follow up blood work

Most will probably hit you to do it at least every 6 months. Most run it through places like Labcorp. Obviously the new patients to TRT will do the initial lab, then another 6 weeks thereafter, then probably every 6 months. In your case they'd probably just take your most recent lab and run you every 6 months. I actually do mine quarterly just because I feel that's the way to go. If something is going wrong I don't want to wait it out 6 months to find out, but that's just me.

**PPC** · 07-29-2010, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

Since taking the DHEA 5% and Prenenolone; both transdermal, I've noticed a nauseous sensation at times in the mornings, and somewhat of a an anxiety like feeling at times, kind of hard to describe. On the other hand, my brain seems to go into some deep thoughts and a lot of vivid memories seem to come to the surface rather easily. I just don't like the waking up part in the middle of the night with a certain anxious feeling.

Not sure if this is common with one or the other, or both. I know the pregnenolone is noted for adding stimulation and enhancement to the brain. I've adjusted my doses down to 1/2ml on each. Also taking in the morning too, which I should have done from the start. I'm presuming my body is just getting familiar with the introduction of these meds. Anyone with similar sides please let me know. - Thanks!

Did you mean you were using the preg at night? That wouldn't work well as it is quite stimulatory. It is a def a morning med. Can raise cortisol which you want nice and high in the morning and low at night.

DHEA shouldn't be taken at night either.

Let us know if just morning doses still are causing these side effects. Do you notice any lessening of libido or sexual function on the creams so far? That might be an indication the preg is swimming into too much progesterone down stream but unlikely on small doses as you mentioned you were low there.

**Vettester** · 07-29-2010, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by PPC

Did you mean you were using the preg at night? That wouldn't work well as it is quite stimulatory. It is a def a morning med. Can raise cortisol which you want nice and high in the morning and low at night.

DHEA shouldn't be taken at night either.

Let us know if just morning doses still are causing these side effects. Do you notice any lessening of libido or sexual function on the creams so far? That might be an indication the preg is swimming into too much progesterone down stream but unlikely on small doses as you mentioned you were low there.

Yeah, when I initially got it I added it in the evening ... Give me a chair shot! With everything going and the changes being made with my program and supplements, I was overlooking that variable. Anyways, it didn't take me long to review it deeper and realize my timing was off.

No libido loss, thank God! I haven't taken any of it in a few days and I feel fine. I'm going to take just a little Preg for a few days, then gradually work in a little DHEA again. I'll let you know how it goes in a few days.

**crg** · 07-31-2010, 07:11 AM

post #12-Hmmm, this is why I don't suggest anyone starts blasting until you get your program dialed in. IMO, it can take 6 months to really get things dialed in so you know how your body responds to different dosages...

Im rereading some of the threads and the above cant be OVERSTATED. My first shot was 15 April of this year and I'm still trying to get this science project right: right amount of T weekly, AI and adding HCG , dealing with multiple Doc's, learning what I need to know, etc. I dont think I'll have a good plan for myself until Sept...maybe. In my case I'm pretty sure a few years of haphazard AAS with zero PCT use 10+ years ago has caused my problems. Playing with steroids without know what your doing is dangerous sh*t, period. This fourm is an invaulable source of info..

**zaggahamma** · 07-31-2010, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by crg

post #12-Hmmm, this is why I don't suggest anyone starts blasting until you get your program dialed in. IMO, it can take 6 months to really get things dialed in so you know how your body responds to different dosages...

Im rereading some of the threads and the above cant be OVERSTATED. My first shot was 15 April of this year and I'm still trying to get this science project right: right amount of T weekly, AI and adding HCG, dealing with multiple Doc's, learning what I need to know, etc. I dont think I'll have a good plan for myself until Sept...maybe. In my case I'm pretty sure a few years of haphazard AAS with zero PCT use 10+ years ago has caused my problems. Playing with steroids without know what your doing is dangerous sh*t, period. This fourm is an invaulable source of info..

crg....if you want to reply/re to a specific post you can click on the quote button within that exact post and it will bring you to a reply box that will take THAT quote to the top of a reply box and you just click below that and post what you want to add and submit reply and wellah

but agree with the last thing you said

**Vettester** · 07-31-2010, 02:17 PM

I really try to stress the fact that people need to go through this discovery process in the beginning so they know exactly how their body responds. Everyone is different and some will experience certain side effects at a particular dosage, whereas others won't experience any problems at all. In any case the body should be given time to adapt to the introduction of exogenous testosterone and other related treatments thereof (HCG , AI, DHEA, HGH, etc.).

A lot of lab work in the beginning and making smaller incremental changes along the way will help the patient really find a true balance and calibration to their program. Understanding this in the beginning will definitely help with any future choices made to enhance their program, or with incorporating additional compounds. It just takes a little time.

**Vettester** · 08-02-2010, 10:33 AM

Update, it appears to be the DHEA that is giving me those anxiety feelings. The pregnenolone by itself is doing just fine! In fact, I feel my mental clarity is much sharper since starting. I guess the good news is that pregnenolone converts to DHEA, so if I had to choose one it would be the one that is the foundation for all others.

**PPC** · 08-02-2010, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

Update, it appears to be the DHEA that is giving me those anxiety feelings. The pregnenolone by itself is doing just fine! In fact, I feel my mental clarity is much sharper since starting. I guess the good news is that pregnenolone converts to DHEA, so if I had to choose one it would be the one that is the foundation for all others.

Yes...good choice. The theory is preg could fill up cortisol, progesterone and dhea if used in high enough doses without getting the liver involved. It'll be interesing to see any changes in your labs down the track.

Interesting that pregnenolone increases in the body during intoxication from alcohol. It does that to try and compensate for the impaired mental state that occurs since it is a brain sharpener and memory enhancer.

I notice on some nootropic forums people use it simply to aid in brain function in their stacks.

**lifeforce0019** · 08-03-2010, 12:34 AM

Hi Vetteman08. Thanks for sharing your protocol. As i mentioned in my new male member post I am a 54 year old guy (6'1"; 218 lbs; 18% body fat) who started HRT about 3 months ago after my bloodwork revealed low total and free testosterone . I saw a nurse practitioner complaining of low energy, low libido, mild depression, slow recovery from sports injuries (tennis) and a general lack of interest and malaise. Sure enough I had low testosterone and she prescribed testosterone cream. I have been using 1.5 grams per day of the cream corresponding to 225 mgs of testosterone (from a compounding pharmacy in Arizona). I also have been taking 100 mgs per day of DHEA.

To date, I have been disappointed in my response to the cream. I have definitely experienced an improvement in my mood but no real increase in libido, energy or desire to work out. I have begun to notice a little puffiness in my chest but no nipple tenderness or "hard spot" below the nipple. Nevertheless, I am worried it might be the beginning on gyno. I have also noticed a shrinking of my testicles. So the cream is doing something! But I want to experience the boost in energy, libido and confidence!

Using the cream is a nuisance! After reading various posts in the HRT forum it would seem like weekly injections of a testoserone ester and twice weekly injections of HCG along with an AI inhibitor may be a better way for me to go. But I shelled out $350 to see the nurse practitioner and hate to think I wasted that money! I don't know if she can or will prescribe injectable testosterone and/or HCG. I am do for a 3 month check up with her and will get lab work done. I welcome your thoughts, suggestions and recommendations.

**Vettester** · 08-03-2010, 02:20 PM

Lifeforce, glad to hear you're exploring the options that are available. A lot of people don't respond very well to transdermal applications of testosterone . I personally started experiencing some adverse reactions after about 5 months of being on Gel.

For starters, I would get your lab work done as soon as you can. It sounds like you might have some elevated E2 levels, so make sure that is on your labs. If your doctor says it is not needed or warranted, then you know you have wasted the $350 ... It's time to find a clinic or another doctor in the network that will work with you.

Your testicles are shrinking due to the exogenous testosterone that is absorbed into your body. HCG will help this situation and it will restore the size and activeness of your testes. Again, if your doctor won't consider it then it's time for you to consider another doctor.

You definitely want to keep an eye on the E2. DHEA also converts to estrogen, so you've got several variables working against you without any protection. Products like Liquidex are easy enough to get if you find yourself stranded for a bit.

Lastly, you will have greater success with this forum if you create your own threads when looking for assistance. Most people will never know that there's a new guy needing help when he's posted in on a existing thread like this one. Just trying to help you achieve the most success here. - Thanks

**lifeforce0019** · 08-03-2010, 11:43 PM

Thanks Vetteman08. I called today to arrange to have my blood drawn this week and scheduled an appointment to see my doctor in early September. I will ask her to switch me to weekly testosterone injections, twice weekly hCG due to my balls shrinking, and depending on my estradiol level and her assessment of my "puffy" chest - maybe an AI.

You suggested I consider Liquidex. Is there any risk to my taking it if I don't have high estradiol or the beginning of gyno? What are the side effects I should be concerned about with liquidex? I would be grateful for any and all feedback and recommendations.

**Vettester** · 08-04-2010, 12:07 AM

A product like Liquidex or other AI's will literally lower your estrogen levels. So the problem is if you're at normal levels you could end up lowering it too much, and then you will have a whole new set of problems. Probably a good chance that you're levels are elevated, BUT in my book I wouldn't take any of it until you know your exact score. Plus, there are different dosage protocols depending on where your score is at. You don't need much of the stuff to make a difference.

If you are indeed starting to see evidence of gyno, you might need to look at a SERM like Nolvadex . You can study up on this stuff if you do some searches throughout the site. I caught the part where you mentioned your doctor is a female. That could be part of the hangup. My primary is female and she isn't anyone I would ever refer to for HRT ... At least males. She won't even test men for estrogen, doesn't believe it's necessary. Needless to say I had to make other arrangements.

You will see what she is made of when you hit her up for HCG . Don't get too frazzled if she shoots you down in flames. A buddy of mine at the gym is going through a similar issue. He told his doc about my protocol and I guess the guy wigged out. This doc said that I (vetteman) am probably breaking the law by taking meds at home. He asked my friend, "what if he bleeds to death?" He also told my friend that I probably have lots of anger issues because I take weekly shots with HCG. My friend tells me that I'm one of the most mellow guys he knows. Anyways, just saying ... Some of these docs like this bozo are already judging people that they've never even met.