Question for those currently on, or who have taken Armour in the past

[forrest_and_trees]

As of about 2 months ago, I began taking Armour. Previous to that I was on 200mcg of Synthroid . After reading all the positive comments from those using Armour, I decided to make the switch.

Unfortunately, during my research phase, I missed that as of a year ago, the formula had changed because as most of your already know, the new formula is no longer sublingual friendly.

Well I've still tried taking the new stuff sublingually taking it twice a day however, I'm beginning to suspect I may have overshot the mark a bit in my first week, as I was told it was OK to go straight from 200mcg of Synthroid to 2.5 Grains of Armour. Unfortunately, my reaction was not the best.

I began feeling moody and anxious and emotional. I was tired and edgy and my muscles and joints began to ache. In retrospect, I probably should have ramped up the Armour more slowly. Since I was not reacting to the Armour favorably, I concluded it was a dosage issue since 2.5 grains only equals 150mcg of Synthroid. So I bumped my does to 3 grains or 180mcg. This only seemed to make matters worse. I was *so* tired during the day that it felt like I was drugged. So today, I got the brilliant idea to mix some Synthroid [T4] with the Armour.

All along, I've been told the signs of over dosing on thyroid meds were heart palpitations, feeling jittery and anxious along with problems sleeping. With the exception of anxious, I had none of the classic symptoms. Then today I dug around further and found that all my symptoms are also side effects of excessive thyroid med. Is this possible?

I knew t3 was significantly more potent than t4, but I had no idea how much til now.

So here's my question; has anyone had similar experiences? Is it worth it to try and dial back to maybe 2 grains a day or should I just ask my doc to change the script to WESTHROID? Has anyone had any luck with WESTHROID? [Which as I understand it, is supposed to be a generic version of the old formula Armour and still made the old way.]

[Vettester]

I'm not much help for you on this end, Forrest. However, I believe fellow member 'Durak' administered some of these products you're discussing. Haven't seen him around for several weeks, but keep an eye out for him or maybe send him a PM. I'll send him an email ... Hopefully he hasn't done anything silly like getting a labotomy.

[forrest_and_trees]

Thanks Vette, I'll give him a try.

[SlimmerMe]

I switched from Synthroid to Armour in January...and felt SO much better...even with the re-formulated I feel it is much better than Synthoid. My palpitations went away and fatigue too.

got jittery---hmmmm....odd...I do know that a lot of people like Erfa or naturethyroid....I am perplexed why you had this reaction.

[forrest_and_trees]

I actually didn't get jittery, that's what I've read is one of the common side effects of over dosing. I actually was fatigued.

Just curious, how do you administer your Armour? What's your typical dose?

[SlimmerMe]

ooops.. I was thinking you got jittery....I take with water....(sometimes I go ahead and put under my tongue just for the heck of it when I get in bed because I have read that some people think it is best while sleeping to get more bang for the buck so psychologically this is when I put under my tongue so I do not "think" I feel anything soon.... so I can go to sleep....but it is chalky. I was on 120 of Synthroid and crossed over to 90 of Armour.

[tboney]

As of about 2 months ago, I began taking Armour. Previous to that I was on 200mcg of Synthroid . After reading all the positive comments from those using Armour, I decided to make the switch.

Unfortunately, during my research phase, I missed that as of a year ago, the formula had changed because as most of your already know, the new formula is no longer sublingual friendly.

Well I've still tried taking the new stuff sublingually taking it twice a day however, I'm beginning to suspect I may have overshot the mark a bit in my first week, as I was told it was OK to go straight from 200mcg of Synthroid to 2.5 Grains of Armour. Unfortunately, my reaction was not the best.

I began feeling moody and anxious and emotional. I was tired and edgy and my muscles and joints began to ache. In retrospect, I probably should have ramped up the Armour more slowly. Since I was not reacting to the Armour favorably, I concluded it was a dosage issue since 2.5 grains only equals 150mcg of Synthroid. So I bumped my does to 3 grains or 180mcg. This only seemed to make matters worse. I was *so* tired during the day that it felt like I was drugged. So today, I got the brilliant idea to mix some Synthroid [T4] with the Armour.

All along, I've been told the signs of over dosing on thyroid meds were heart palpitations, feeling jittery and anxious along with problems sleeping. With the exception of anxious, I had none of the classic symptoms. Then today I dug around further and found that all my symptoms are also side effects of excessive thyroid med. Is this possible?

I knew t3 was significantly more potent than t4, but I had no idea how much til now.

So here's my question; has anyone had similar experiences? Is it worth it to try and dial back to maybe 2 grains a day or should I just ask my doc to change the script to WESTHROID? Has anyone had any luck with WESTHROID? [Which as I understand it, is supposed to be a generic version of the old formula Armour and still made the old way.]

Why are you on armour?

[forrest_and_trees]

Why are you on armour?

Hypothyroidism; and Synthroid wasn't doing the trick.

[tboney]

So have you had an RA ablation of your thyroid gland or a thyroidectomy?

[forrest_and_trees]

So have you had an RA ablation of your thyroid gland or a thyroidectomy?

Nope.

[tboney]

Nope.

Ok.. so you have a partially functioning thyroid..it just under produces correct??

If that is the case, 2.5grains of armour is a very large dose. That is the equivalent of 150mgs.....That is a healthy dose for someone that does not have a functioning thyroid.

That dose could cause some of your symptoms....Get some blood work.
tsh
t3
t4
free t3
free t4

[forrest_and_trees]

I had been on 200mg of Synthroid which helped some but still feeling fatigued which is why I switched to Armour. However, I've since cut my dose of Armour back after this past week. I really wish I knew what was causing this fatigue issue, I also have a *real* hard time concentrating. I cant seem to focus for long on anything. I sometimes literally begin to fall asleep at the computer after only a couple mins when doing more complex tasks. If i get up or change gears and do something else that requires less concentrating, I seem to become more alert. Often it's the only way I can write an email or post. It ends up taking forever. The only way I can make a post or write an email that makes any kinds of sense is to re-read it each time and make changes like 5-10 times or more. You should check the history of some of my edited posts sometime, it's pretty pathetic because I keep going back to make changes. Sometimes it can take me all day. Evening seems to be best time for me. Then some days I'm OK and others I'm useless. It really is frustrating as hell. I was also thinking of the possibility of adrenal fatigue but I found a lab from about a year ago and my cortisol level was fine. I know some have suggested things like adding b12, which I'll likely do, however I'd prefer something that addresses the core cause rather than mask the issue. I hope this all makes sense, it's a challenge for me to string together... S#IT... There I go again. I often have a hard time recalling certain words too. It's ridiculous. I feel like an old man and I've dropped 40-50 IQ points. ....but I digress. What I was trying to say is I have a hard time stringing together a flow of consciousness that makes sense. Ironically, I can do certain tasks like playing a first person shooter and that wakes me up. I'm not a huge gamer but sometimes it's all I can do to keep from falling asleep. After about 15-20 mins of playing and I'm OK to go again but for how long I can never tell. Sleeping during the day doesn't help either, though sometimes I have no choice as I pass out without realizing it and when I wake up, I feel like I've been drugged. This often happens after I eat so I've monitored my blood glucose but it's fine. Please help, I'm open to any and all suggestions. because I'm running out of ideas.

P.S. I often forget things very easily too. I can literally forget from moment to moment. Not that I'm advocating recreational drugs but, it's like being stoned all the time without the fun part. "uh... what' was I saying?" Lately I find I often have to struggle just to hold an intelligent conversation without looking like an idiot. I *never* had a problem talking before. Or I'll try and remember a certain task I want to do and a min later I completely forget. What the hell is wrong with me?

[Vettester]

Any family history with Alzheimer's?? I'm being serious. Have you talked to your doctor about doing some testing and scanning for this?

[forrest_and_trees]

None that's ever been diagnosed although my mother has always been easily distracted. She's 75 and pretty sharp for her age otherwise. I also have a 93 year old uncle who's always lived on his own and he's begun loosing touch with reality in the past year or so; but I would think that's not too alarming given his age. ADD does seem to run in the family though. While they did not diagnose it while I was in school my 28 year old nephew was diagnosed when he was a kid.

I did check out a Alzheimer site with a "10 warning signs" questionnaire and I can see why you asked me about it. There are two that seem related to what I posted. I'll have to talk to my doc about that further; however none of the more serious signs fit. Such as spatial disorientation or losing track of time, misplacing things, forgetting familiar locations etc.

My doc had been concerned with sleep apnea, but I can't afford the test so I've been focusing on all the other things we talk about here. I suppose what I deal with could be somewhat related to that but without insurance, I just cant do the study. I've considered just getting a CPAP and trying on my own but it's still too cost prohibitive at the moment.

On a side note, I had just woke up from one of my "unscheduled naps" about 15 mins before writing that last post. I just took a shower and feel better, head's a little clearer. Writing /typing seems to be better for what it's worth.

Thanks for the input.

[zaggahamma]

None that's ever been diagnosed although my mother has always been easily distracted. She's 75 and pretty sharp for her age otherwise. I also have a 93 year old uncle who's always lived on his own and he's begun loosing touch with reality in the past year or so; but I would think that's not too alarming given his age. ADD does seem to run in the family though. While they did not diagnose it while I was in school my 28 year old nephew was diagnosed when he was a kid.

I did check out a Alzheimer site with a "10 warning signs" questionnaire and I can see why you asked me about it. There are two that seem related to what I posted. I'll have to talk to my doc about that further; however none of the more serious signs fit. Such as spatial disorientation or losing track of time, misplacing things, forgetting familiar locations etc.

My doc had been concerned with sleep apnea, but I can't afford the test so I've been focusing on all the other things we talk about here. I suppose what I deal with could be somewhat related to that but without insurance, I just cant do the study. I've considered just getting a CPAP and trying on my own but it's still too cost prohibitive at the moment.

On a side note, I had just woke up from one of my "unscheduled naps" about 15 mins before writing that last post. I just took a shower and feel better, head's a little clearer. Writing /typing seems to be better for what it's worth.

Thanks for the input.

sorry to hear this forrest i had no idea you were battling this...hope u get this figured out bro

[mŭsˈəl]

Hi-ya.
Sleep apnea? Are you obese?

Perhaps you have not been fully/correctly Dx’ed if you are also Rx'ed other supplementation like HGH and TRT (since you are posting in this forum), but still have acute Sx.
The Sx you mentioned are also common to other pituitary and endocrinological disorders beyond hypothyroidism, such as parathyroid D/Os, as well as nutritional /hormonal deficiencies and neurological problems. Those Sx are also found in head injuries and even TBIs (sports injuries, car accidents, etc) for which Testosterone , Glucocorticoid, Growth hormone supplementation is common.
Do you believe you have been correctly Dx’ed?
I am new here, by the way. When I began using desiccated thyroid about 4 months ago, I avoided Armour because of the complaints about the new formulation. I am using a compounding pharmacy in Utah that my MD recommended because they do not use Armour. I am happy with their product. I am taking three grains a day and know of individuals whose needs are 4 and 5 grains a day.

[SlimmerMe]

Welcome----
I tried the compounded t-3/t4 also----so a good idea perhaps for Forrest to go this route

[forrest_and_trees]

Thanks for the support jpkman.

No head injuries and for the record, I'm not on HGH. I too had considered alternative to Armour due to reformulation so I plan on asking the doc about Westhroid? I think that's how you spell it... I've heard it's a generic version of the old formula Armour. Is this correct?

As far as correct diagnosis, the truth is, I'd love a full battery of tests, MRI, EEG etc. but just can't afford any of that since I'm paying cash out of pocket; no insurance. Yes I am obese but I wasn't always this way. I used to be very active and exercised a lot; but I began gaining weight at a ridiculous rate about the same time all my other issues started about 15 years ago. The symptoms I posted above are more recent, it's only been the last couple years and they've gotten worse in the past year. This last month seems to be the worst.

As far as t3/t4 route, I still have some synthroid , would it help to add a small dose to the Armour to see? I did try it a week ago but I think the dose was too high and led to some of my most recent probs. That or it was all my Low E2. So hard to tell which one is the root cause; which is why I try not to change too many factors at the same time. I'm beginning to suspect I've messed with too many things in the past couple months and now it's made it more difficult to properly diagnose. I may have to back off a bit and try again to better see what happens.

Just curious, but has anyone heard or the new Armour causing fatigue and concentration issues?

[SlimmerMe]

changed mind--as to what I wrote---sorry---

[forrest_and_trees]

Side note: I've been digging around and just read there are whole lot of people who are having the same probs I am with the new Armour formulation. consumeraffairs.com - Armour

The following is just one example of many, " I would have a good day now and then and think maybe I had just been coming down with some kind of flu... In the recent weeks, I began having days where I felt like death warmed over with stiff and painful joints, weak all over and the worse symptom has been mental confusion." ...Sounds familiar.

Interestingly enough, I too thought I was coming down with the flu last week. I think it's time to lay off the Armour until I can find an alternative.

[SlimmerMe]

hey Forrest---I just thought of this... wonder if you are allergic to desiccated porcine?

[forrest_and_trees]

hey Forrest---I just thought of this... wonder if you are allergic to desiccated porcine?

Good question, hard to say. Ideally, I'd love to have a complete allergy panel including foods however that's out of my price range. Hopefully at some point I'll have insurance and can do much more comprehensive testing. In the mean time I'll have to make do.

For what it's worth, I just got off the phone with RLC labs, makers of Westhroid and Naturoid; unfortunately, few pharmacy's carry they're product but If I can manage to get my hands on some, I should know better.

[tboney]

Good question, hard to say. Ideally, I'd love to have a complete allergy panel including foods however that's out of my price range. Hopefully at some point I'll have insurance and can do much more comprehensive testing. In the mean time I'll have to make do.

For what it's worth, I just got off the phone with RLC labs, makers of Westhroid and Naturoid; unfortunately, few pharmacy's carry they're product but If I can manage to get my hands on some, I should know better.

Your doc can write a prescription for a "compounded formula" .

[SlimmerMe]

Your doc can write a prescription for a "compounded formula" .

yes---this can happen.. a desiccated porcine thyroid which would be like westhroid or Naturoid or Erfa...

[forrest_and_trees]

Found a mail order pharm that carries Westhroid. Got the OK from the doc and hope to have it by next week. I'll be sure to post a follow up once I know how it goes.

[forrest_and_trees]

Follow up- It turns out the pharm I contacted is associated with the manufacture RLC Labs however, they did not have Westroid in 3 grain tabs so they sent me Nature-Thoid instead, which they assured me is identical. I explained to both the pharm and the manufacture why I was choosing them, i.e. Armour had changed their formula and I had a bad reaction, [ like many other people did] so I wanted to be certain that their product was the same as the "old pre-reformulation Armour" and they said yes however they did mention that neither is a generic version of Armour and that it was it's own product. OK, go figure. So I guess I shouldn't have been too surprised when it arrived yesterday that it turns out it was not glucose based like the "old" Armour but cellulose based like the *new re-formulated Armour." WTF?! Was I duped? It sure seemed like a bait and switch to me so I called them back and this time they admitted they too had changed the formula but that it did not have what ever was causing the bad side effects of the new Armour. So I'm giving it a try and on day two so far so good. Nothing life changing but no bad side effects either. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that everything holds up as many people who had a bad reaction to the new Armour also said they felt fine the first week. When I called, they did mention it works best if you grind it up or chew the tablet which tastes like chalk. Not pleasant.

On a side note, I'm convinced now that it *was* the Armour that caused my bad symptoms and not low E as many people on another thread seemed to feel; because I began feeling better only one day after I stopped taking the Armour. I can't imagine my E2 level could have gone up that quickly.

[SlimmerMe]

glad to hear you are doing better....thanks for the update!