Hmmm What about the Wife?

[PPC]

Ok, here are my Wife's results, got them back faster than I thought.
http://s1189.photobucket.com/albums/z430/Termin8r27/

This was taken at day 19 of her cycle, per the AA Clinic's suggestion/request, so she was in the Ovulation Phase.

It appears to me that she is on the low end of Testosterone and almost out of range on the bottom for Progesterone. Could her Estrogen be low as well since it's in the lower %50? What about DHEA? How does SHBG play in for women - same as men, it appears she's on the high side.

My wife is about to be 32, has had fatigue, and mild depression/anxiety for a long time and they've been getting worse after our two children. Her libido has really taken a dive over the past few years and we did try for a third child about 5 months ago and she had her 2nd miscarriage. We've decided more children might not be in the cards especially if she needs to get on hormone therapy.

I'm confused about something. Women who are still having menstrual cycles are usually advised to get their blood work done between day 18-21. This is so they can catch the progesterone and estrogen peak in the luteal phase. Your wife did her blood work during this time...why are you calling it the ovulatory period? Did the clinic people tell you day 19 was part of the ovulation phase? I'm confused beccause how we interperate your wife's blood work is determind by what phase she was in.

Here's what Wiki says on the phases.

"The menstrual cycle can be divided into several different phases. The average length of each phase is shown below, the first three are related to changes in the lining of the uterus whereas the final three are related to processes occurring in the ovary:"

Name of phase Average start day
assuming a 28-day cycle Average end day:

menstrual phase (menstruation) 1- 4
proliferative phase (some sources include menstruation in this phase) 5- 13
ovulatory phase (ovulation) 13- 16
luteal phase (also known as secretory phase) 16- 28
ischemic phase 27- 28
follicular phase 1- 13

-----------------------------------------------------------

Wiki is being generous in giving the ovulation phase until day 16 to be over. Most info I have read on the subject cuts ovulation off at day 15. Unless your wife was breast feeding (which delays ovulation,) I have to presume she was in the luteal phase. That wiki info was more detailed than most. Usually, the phases are just easily divided up into 3 parts:

Follicular: days 1-13
Ovulation: days 13-15,
Luteal - days 15-28.

Yes, your wife's progesterone has bottomed out, therefore she has estrogen dominance. That doesn't mean she has too much estrogen (although her E doesn't seem low at all for the luteal period), it means her progesterone cannot balance out her estrogen. You mentioned anxiety, progesterone is a calming hormone, not enough and there will be anxiety...and raises Gaba. Anxiety and problems with miscarriage are certain signs the low progesterone is having negative consequences. Progesterone nourishes the uterine lining so it is able to sustain pregnancy. many women are advised to use natural progesterone from weeks 1-12 of pregnancy to help prevent miscarriage.

While the T level is not terrible....it's not great. I would have loved to see a free T result. I'm betting it would be low due to elevated SHBG. Has your wife ever been on the pill? I cannot figure the reason for the high SHBG otherwise - quite odd.

Again - as with Streeter's wife there is an elevated FSH. Your wife is only 32, so this is stumping me - especially since she still has adequate E levels. I'll be very interested in the doctor's comments on her blood work - low progesterone can often coincide with low cortisol and adrenal function since progesterone pours into the cortisol bucket to fill it up. Low cortisol can also often result in anxiety since adrenalin has to take over cortisol's role. Hmmmm....I'm not a Doc, I wish I could give you a more precise opinion.

[Termin8r27]

That is very helpful PPC!
I guess I misspoke and didn't think through my initial comments... Her blood was drawn on day 19 and supposedly in the luteal phase, but my wife had been talking about 'ovulating' leading up to the test so I guess that was stuck in my head. But then I'm looking at her FSH, LH and Estrogen and her comments about Ovulating and it seems those are all WAY too high for the Luteal Phase and more inline with the Ovulatory Phase...?

Yes, she did take the Birth Control Pill ( a couple different kinds) over many years while she was a teenager before we met and in her early 20's when we got together, but she hasn't taken it since she was probably 22 or 23 if that makes a difference...?

My wife also says she's on a 31 Day cycle and not a 28 Day cycle so that definitely could mean she's ovulating late...all the data leads me to believe so too...

We're waiting on what the Dr. has to say as well...

[PPC]

That is very helpful PPC!
I guess I misspoke and didn't think through my initial comments... Her blood was drawn on day 19 and supposedly in the luteal phase, but my wife had been talking about 'ovulating' leading up to the test so I guess that was stuck in my head. But then I'm looking at her FSH, LH and Estrogen and her comments about Ovulating and it seems those are all WAY too high for the Luteal Phase and more inline with the Ovulatory Phase...?

Yes, she did take the Birth Control Pill ( a couple different kinds) over many years while she was a teenager before we met and in her early 20's when we got together, but she hasn't taken it since she was probably 22 or 23 if that makes a difference...?

My wife also says she's on a 31 Day cycle and not a 28 Day cycle so that definitely could mean she's ovulating late...all the data leads me to believe so too...

We're waiting on what the Dr. has to say as well...

Yes, some of her hormones do look more in line with ovulation levels.

But it's hard to imagine she would still be ovulating at day 19 - on her 31 day cycle it could have been day 16 or 17...possibly. I wonder if she is already having anovulatory cycles where sometimes eggs are not released so the estrogen hangs out there alone since there is no reason for the body to produce progesterone on such cycles. But...she seems so young for that.

I hope this doctor knows his stuff.

[Termin8r27]

Yes, some of her hormones do look more in line with ovulation levels.

But it's hard to imagine she would still be ovulating at day 19 - on her 31 day cycle it could have been day 16 or 17...possibly. I wonder if she is already having anovulatory cycles where sometimes eggs are not released so the estrogen hangs out there alone since there is no reason for the body to produce progesterone on such cycles. But...she seems so young for that.

I hope this doctor knows his stuff.

Yes, I do as well. If not, we'll find another one for sure. We've been reading Suzanne Sommers books and I've chatted with SlimmerMe and will pay to see one of those Dr's if we have to, to get the right Dr.

[firefly2]

Hi, this is Termin8r27's wife. I have registered and am very interested in finding out more about this subject and seeking advice. Thank you to all of you who are helping my husband and I. This is a very complex subject and it helps to talk to those women who have experience with this. I want to find a good doctor who is very experienced and has the time to devote to deciphering the blood test results. Thank you PPC for all of your insight and caring to help. :0)

Any advice is welcome by me.

[PPC]

Hi, this is Termin8r27's wife. I have registered and am very interested in finding out more about this subject and seeking advice. Thank you to all of you who are helping my husband and I. This is a very complex subject and it helps to talk to those women who have experience with this. I want to find a good doctor who is very experienced and has the time to devote to deciphering the blood test results. Thank you PPC for all of your insight and caring to help. :0)

Any advice is welcome by me.

You guys live in Texas? I have a friend there who uses bioidentical hormones (in her 30's). She mentioned there are clinics called 'The Fem Center' in surrounding areas that deal with female hormonal issues and treat with natural hormones.

It would maybe help if you shared some of your symptoms with your cycles, health issues etc - yes it is a complex subject. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know and the intricacies with regard to how all these hormones feed back on each other are mind reeling. If you don't want to hang it all out here you can pm me, no prob.

[firefly2]

I think i have to get to 25 posts to PM you. I will have to get aggresive with my posting I guess!

The main complaint I have in regards to how I feel is a complete lack of energy. I could sleep all day and I have a hard time sleeping at night and getting up in the morning. I find that right when I am about to start my mentrual cycle (like the day before or the day I start) I feel a little better and find my libido increase slightly. I have debilitating anxiety and foggy brain most of the time, it has gotten worse. I workout almost every day, with weights especially, I find this helps me feel better but it doesn't last through the day. My periods are pretty heavy and last about 8-9 days. My thinking is not clear and my memory is lacking.

I just had a miscarriage on November 4th 2010, I was wondering if that could affect my FSH levels even now, maybe that is why they are so high. I went through a bad case of postpartum depression for two months after the miscarriage. I have felt a lot worse after this last pregnancy and miscarriage for some reason. I didn't seem to feel as bad after my 1st miscarriage which was before I had my son. But, I have felt these issues through out my 20's.

Does this help? Thank you again for your input and advice. I was reading through your thread about birth control pills.

[SlimmerMe]

Welcome Firefly!!! Glad you decided to join. We need you.....

[PPC]

I think i have to get to 25 posts to PM you. I will have to get aggresive with my posting I guess!

The main complaint I have in regards to how I feel is a complete lack of energy. I could sleep all day and I have a hard time sleeping at night and getting up in the morning. I find that right when I am about to start my mentrual cycle (like the day before or the day I start) I feel a little better and find my libido increase slightly. I have debilitating anxiety and foggy brain most of the time, it has gotten worse. I workout almost every day, with weights especially, I find this helps me feel better but it doesn't last through the day. My periods are pretty heavy and last about 8-9 days. My thinking is not clear and my memory is lacking.

I just had a miscarriage on November 4th 2010, I was wondering if that could affect my FSH levels even now, maybe that is why they are so high. I went through a bad case of postpartum depression for two months after the miscarriage. I have felt a lot worse after this last pregnancy and miscarriage for some reason. I didn't seem to feel as bad after my 1st miscarriage which was before I had my son. But, I have felt these issues through out my 20's.

Does this help? Thank you again for your input and advice. I was reading through your thread about birth control pills.

So sorry about the loss of your pregnancy. That's rough.

Your long periods are a sure sign of your progesterone deficiency. When my low progesterone was unadressed I had 8 day periods like that, lost a lot of blood and got low in iron. I need to go back and check your HGB levels. Sometimes, (in my case,) my uterine lining got very thick and grew fibroids and polpys. Hopefully you will get the hormones you need before that happens.

I really wonder about your adrenals since you mention you are so tired all day. Being unable to sleep usually means cortisol is low in morning and high at night. That's what happens before cortisol drops out and just becomes too low all the time. You can check it through a 4X saliva test through ZRT labs but it's a little pricey - I think $150 or there abouts.

I know weights are great for a sleek body but be careful about pushing yourself after your miscarraige. If you have low cortisol, hard workouts can really make things worse.

Take care. Let's hope you can get paired up with the right Doc for you and spring back from all this.

[firefly2]

I went to go see an anti aging doctor locally, who has a good reputation.
We reviewed my BW and came to the following conclusions:

A.)Progesterone is too low (obviously)

B.)Testosterone is too low (but I had to go get another test done to check free T and waiting on those results)

C.)I have Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (This is shown by my FSH and LH levels, they are in a reverse ratio along with insulin resistance which was shown by BW, and I did develop gestational diabetes when pregnant with my son).

D.) According to my symptoms I will take a low dose of Thyroid hormone (not sure which one, my active T3 was not checked until yesterday, waiting on those results)

E.) I may have adrenal fatigue (This is shown by the fact that I feel better when working out and crash afterwards, so he told me to lay off strenuous exercise for now and have to be careful with Thyroid hormones as to not exacerbate this if this is the case).

F.)I was told in December by an endocrinologist that I have Hashimoto's Disease based on TPO levels which were not much above range, AA doc said I do not have this.)

G.) Also very low Vitamin D, which apparently most people have.

I get my hormones on Friday, I have ordered Progesterone and Thyroid for now. I am still interested in having more children so we will wait on the Testosterone.

Thank you for your help. I am very excited to start my regimen, and am looking forward to feeling better. It is very good to have support here and advice on this.

[streeter]

I am glad for you. I am trying to find a local Doctor that will take care of my wife and I. I am still with the clinic out of state and they just Raped me on prices for my medicine and my wife's. Together it was almost $500 I have to find a local Doctor and get my insurance to cover this. When I wasn't on HRT I was depressed then when I started HRT I felt great Now when I have to pay for it I get depressed. I can't win.

[Termin8r27]

I am glad for you. I am trying to find a local Doctor that will take care of my wife and I. I am still with the clinic out of state and they just Raped me on prices for my medicine and my wife's. Together it was almost $500 I have to find a local Doctor and get my insurance to cover this. When I wasn't on HRT I was depressed then when I started HRT I felt great Now when I have to pay for it I get depressed. I can't win.

That's a bummer man and definitely know how that feels. I spend about $700 on average for 10 weeks just for me. Sometimes I spend more when I want to blast or increase my deca .

We decided to see if that local clinic I went to see months and months ago had an opening anytime soon while we were waiting on my clinic in FL. They had one open the next day and she really liked them and the Dr. I really like them too, just didn't like having to pay for the Dr's visits, but I may get on with them now that she is as well. Good thing besides actually being able to work with a Dr. in person is that he was a highly recognized OBGYN for 30 yrs and that they can also write orders for bloodwork and other things that insurance will cover.

My wife didn't mention this, but she also has an identical twin who has been having the same problems as her, but has been behind in researching and doing anything about it. However, she just went to see the same clinic this morning and will be getting on therapy as well, but most likely with Testosterone as well...so it will be interesting to see how they both react to treatments in general.

[SlimmerMe]

I went to go see an anti aging doctor locally, who has a good reputation.
We reviewed my BW and came to the following conclusions:

A.)Progesterone is too low (obviously)

B.)Testosterone is too low (but I had to go get another test done to check free T and waiting on those results)

C.)I have Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (This is shown by my FSH and LH levels, they are in a reverse ratio along with insulin resistance which was shown by BW, and I did develop gestational diabetes when pregnant with my son).

D.) According to my symptoms I will take a low dose of Thyroid hormone (not sure which one, my active T3 was not checked until yesterday, waiting on those results)

E.) I may have adrenal fatigue (This is shown by the fact that I feel better when working out and crash afterwards, so he told me to lay off strenuous exercise for now and have to be careful with Thyroid hormones as to not exacerbate this if this is the case).

F.)I was told in December by an endocrinologist that I have Hashimoto's Disease based on TPO levels which were not much above range, AA doc said I do not have this.)

G.) Also very low Vitamin D, which apparently most people have.

I get my hormones on Friday, I have ordered Progesterone and Thyroid for now. I am still interested in having more children so we will wait on the Testosterone.

Thank you for your help. I am very excited to start my regimen, and am looking forward to feeling better. It is very good to have support here and advice on this.

Hi!

Glad to see you have started your path.

I am curious as to your BW results. Could you please post them if you do not mind?

I too am TPO positive. My doc did not seem concerned. But there is now a whole new theory that thyroid meds will not take care of this but cutting out gluten will. I plan to get the book about this later this week. Just ordered it by Dr. Datis Kharrazian. So the jury is still out as to whether this is the case or not.

Will you be getting both t3 and t4 in your thyroid medication? I hope so.

Are you planning on taking the progesterone at night? to help sleep?

Keep us posted!

Note: re: testosterone replacement ....from my experience, I was on 4-6mcgs compounded cream ED and all though I was on other things like dhea and E2/3 plus progesterone, I think the test cream made me a bit aggressive with the dose I took plus I had HORRIBLE acne.....so my suggestion is to start slow

Are you planning on continual dosing? or cycling? or do you know yet?

[PPC]

I went to go see an anti aging doctor locally, who has a good reputation.
We reviewed my BW and came to the following conclusions:

A.)Progesterone is too low (obviously)

B.)Testosterone is too low (but I had to go get another test done to check free T and waiting on those results)

C.)I have Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (This is shown by my FSH and LH levels, they are in a reverse ratio along with insulin resistance which was shown by BW, and I did develop gestational diabetes when pregnant with my son).

D.) According to my symptoms I will take a low dose of Thyroid hormone (not sure which one, my active T3 was not checked until yesterday, waiting on those results)

E.) I may have adrenal fatigue (This is shown by the fact that I feel better when working out and crash afterwards, so he told me to lay off strenuous exercise for now and have to be careful with Thyroid hormones as to not exacerbate this if this is the case).

F.)I was told in December by an endocrinologist that I have Hashimoto's Disease based on TPO levels which were not much above range, AA doc said I do not have this.)

G.) Also very low Vitamin D, which apparently most people have.

I get my hormones on Friday, I have ordered Progesterone and Thyroid for now. I am still interested in having more children so we will wait on the Testosterone.

Thank you for your help. I am very excited to start my regimen, and am looking forward to feeling better. It is very good to have support here and advice on this.

Very interesting...I wondered about PCOS...but usually women with this condition will have highly elevated levels of Testosterone not low levels as you seem to have. Did the doctor mention that? Are they interested in doing an ultra sound of your ovaries to look for the line of cysts?

PCOS often contributes to issues with fertility, hopefully the progesterone will allow you to get pregnant again.

Like Slimmerme, I am interested in what form and the dose of progesterone that will be prescribed to you.

The very important thing with PCOS is to stay with a low carb diet as you know it puts you into an insulin resistant state.

I am so glad you are promptly getting the help you need. That's awesome.

Look into pregnenolone cream for your possible adrenal fatigue. I think physical activity is real important (as you obviously do too,) I think the key is to keep it less than twenty minutes for people with major adrenal issues. Cortisol starts to turn on after 30-45 minutes for some people.

[PPC]

I am glad for you. I am trying to find a local Doctor that will take care of my wife and I. I am still with the clinic out of state and they just Raped me on prices for my medicine and my wife's. Together it was almost $500 I have to find a local Doctor and get my insurance to cover this. When I wasn't on HRT I was depressed then when I started HRT I felt great Now when I have to pay for it I get depressed. I can't win.

Streeter, did you call compounding pharmacists in your area and ask for the name of doctors that prescribe hormones? That is how I found our Doc.

[SlimmerMe]

Streeter, did you call compounding pharmacists in your area and ask for the name of doctors that prescribe hormones? That is how I found our Doc.

ditto.....they know who the players are and who to recommend and I found that compounding pharmacist love to talk and share info and just from the tone of their voice, you can tell which docs they think are legit and which ones they think are charlatans

[firefly2]

I wanted to add that my cortisol levels were normal. Thankful for that. I get my hormones tomorrow, I am not sure what the dose is for the thyroid or progesterone although I know I am to take the progesterone pill once in the morning and once before bed. He said I can take it every day or cycle it, he told me to start by trial and error, to start figuring out if I feel better taking it every day or just during normal cycling.

He said he was going to start me out on a very low dose of thyroid to see how I feel. He said if I have adrenal fatigue I will feel worse and we will see where to go from there.

I am also taking Kavinace which is really helping already after only 2 days to help with anxiety and sleeping.

I have high insulin resistance as shown by BW, which is probably why I got gestational diabetes, but I do not have any problems with my ovaries as I just had them checked with an ultrasound in November due to pregnancy/miscarriage. But my fasting blood sugar was 90, normal.

I think I just caught the PCOS quickly so now I am in prevention care.

At least now I know why I couldn't put on as much muscle as I would have liked for my Figure competition back in August. And why I couldn't lose the fat on my hips and abs. Also my rear end just would not respond to the weightlifting. It was really frustrating.

My husband, Termin8r27, posted my BW on this thread, but the BW from the endo. with my TPO levels need to be scanned in first.

[PPC]

I wanted to add that my cortisol levels were normal. Thankful for that. I get my hormones tomorrow, I am not sure what the dose is for the thyroid or progesterone although I know I am to take the progesterone pill once in the morning and once before bed. He said I can take it every day or cycle it, he told me to start by trial and error, to start figuring out if I feel better taking it every day or just during normal cycling.
.

If it were me, I would use the progesterone from day 14 of my cycle, onward until day 26...or right through until flow starts. That follows the normal rise of progesterone in the menstrual cycle.

In some women, progesterone taken in the morning can make one feel very sleepy - due to the Gaba effect....depends on dosage but since you say pill....I imagine it is 100mg. Some have to only use it at night....that was certain in my case.

[streeter]

This is what the doctor prescribed for my wife. Any comments? She should get it in the next day or two.
Biest 2mg / Progest 4% / Pregnolone 4% / Testosterone 2% / DHEA 2.5% Cream 60

Yes I called the compounding pharmacy they gave me a list. I called a couple of them only one was promising. She is a alternative medicine doctor..female. Supposedly known nation wide. She charges $450 bucks for first visit and then 200 each visit afterwards she said after a few visits she would only need to be seen once a year but insurance doesn't cover the visits but will pick up the cost of the scripts. I think in the end it would just even out so I might think about it because I suppose in a very long run it might save some money but for now I will continue to just buy her script through my HRT in Florida

[SlimmerMe]

Steeter: Seems like a typical protocol....very similar to the one I was on except mine had higher doses which were too high for me....

When you get the compounded cream, let us know if it is all mixed up together or if any of it is separate....
plus I am assuming she is to take all of the above ED? instead of variable dosing?

If everyday, I would start with lower clicks if it is a clicking vial and then see how she feels. If she has waited this long, then I suggest to ramp up simply to get a feel for how she feels. Plus keep a log.

Also, if they have not told her where to apply the cream, I liked the inner forearm between the bend of the elbow to the wrist where I directly applied the cream and then rubbed it in all up and down my inner arm with my other wrist so as to not waste any plus to get some on the thin skin of the wrist which IMO is a great place to absorb. I also read somewhere that it is best to spread as opposed to rubbing over and over in the same place. Then air wave it dry a bit.

Keep us posted. And hope she starts feeling like a SUPERWOMAN!

[SlimmerMe]

Streeter: Question: could you find out if her protocol is in one dispenser and if so, could you ask the doc or pharmacist to separate the biest from the progesterone and the test? they will tell you it is more expensive to separate but I bet PPC will want it separate when she returns........my 02

if it is not too late....and if so, then perhaps for the next round if you decide you want to separate the hormones

[streeter]

It's too late this time to make changes but I will let you know how it comes when I get it. They want her to use it everyday. I read somewhere women should not take it during their monthly period does this sound correct to you?

They also told her to apply it on her inner thigh. I am worried about getting any of this on me since I am on TRT I don't want any of that raising my E2 levels so I am now thinking I have to be cautious about touching her and wait stay clear a few hours when she applies it does this sound paranoid?

Anyway once we get it I will let you know if it's a clicking tube or separate or what.

[SlimmerMe]

I don't think that amount of E will really effect you...maybe but I would not worry and could be wrong. It is not like Androgel applied to a male and then have contact with a female which is not good.

Perhaps have her apply it when you will not be around for a couple of hours to make you feel better. She will feel horrible if you do not want to touch her after all of this~

A friend of mine applies to her inner thigh and she is fine with this. I just like the inner arm. Thinner skin.

Remember this: all of this is new and she is another pioneer in all of this. This is one reason I suggest a log because it is hard to remember everything. Sleep patterns. Mood. Weight. Libido. Everything. And then later on when the doc questions her down the road, she can recall much better. Plus share her knowledge which is so needed on this.

[streeter]

Thanks so last question if after a few weeks if her libido doesn't recover then would you think maybe 4mg of my Test Cyp with her B12 injection weekly would help...Yes I ask purely of selfish reasons LOL

[SlimmerMe]

no last questions!

since she has such low T maybe...but give it at least a couple months. I got acne on the cream and according to one of my girlfriends I had become aggressive ( I was told this after a cat fight no less).....
the DHEA will also raise her test levels

[streeter]

Sounds good I'll give it a couple of days...err J/K couple of months

[SlimmerMe]

^^^ Whoa nelly!

[firefly2]

streeter: I am so glad your wife is getting the help she needs! I can't wait to hear a good report on how she is feeling. I bet she is excited :0)

I am feeling better after 4 days (today is the fifth day) I go in to my anti aging doctor today to go over how I feel. I am thinking on waiting on the third baby and just getting on Test. and DHEA right now as my libido is really low and my lean muscle mass is deteriorating. I am hoping that that will help me feel more normal.

My identical twin sister got her results back. She has low estrogen, low DHEA, low testosterone (higher than mine though), her thyroid is very low (lower than mine), low progesterone, mild PCOS, and her fasting blood sugar was 106 (uh oh). And she is turning 32 years old like me in April. YIKES! I am more of a weighlifter than she is and I weigh less due to clean eating for competition. It will be interesting to see how our treatments compare as we are starting them at roughly the same time.

[firefly2]

Oh I wanted to add. I have been taking the progesterone pill (100mg) in the morning and at night. Yesterday I decided I would skip the morning pill and I felt noticeably worse during the day. More anxious, more tired, and depressed feeling. So I took one in the afternoon and I felt much better. I will just have to play with it and see how I feel after 2 cycles.

The thyroid is definitely helping my energy levels. And I am sleeping much better with the Kavinace and Progesterone. I am getting up early and having (mostly) sustained energy throughout the day. I keep waiting for the energy crash throughout the day (like after I clean the bathroom or workout) and the crash does not come. I am so happy about this! Now I can clean, play with my kids, and get up in the morning with them and function like a normal person. This is only day 5 and I feel SO much better. Now I need to get on testosterone and DHEA to bring me up to optimum levels. I find out today what my free testosterone is, my total was 30. Of course my husband is determined for me to get on testosterone like yesterday :0)

[SlimmerMe]

Glad to hear this Firefly....you sound happy!

IMO:: Take it slow.... This allows you to see how your body reacts to each hormone plus helps a lot with tweaking.

And when and if I start back up again, I will introduce slowly.....because I jumped right in with all the hormones all at once..... and never knew what hormone was making me feel like I was feeling.....

[streeter]

Well yesterday..Monday the wife and I went to the gym. When we got home there was a UPS sticker on our door, they tried to deliver but needed a signature so the paper said they would try again Tuesday.

It's freaking Tuesday and the entire town is snowed in roads are freaking Ice and everything is closed. My wife and my meds sit in a box somewhere at a UPS warehouse.

It doesn't get above freezing until Friday and this town is in TX we don't prepare well for snow. This Sucks!

[streeter]

^^^Thanks firefly2 you got a head start on us since we haven't got our meds yet. When the town melts and the UPS truck can get out we will let you know how she is feeling as she progresses.

[PPC]

Oh I wanted to add. I have been taking the progesterone pill (100mg) in the morning and at night. Yesterday I decided I would skip the morning pill and I felt noticeably worse during the day. More anxious, more tired, and depressed feeling. So I took one in the afternoon and I felt much better. I will just have to play with it and see how I feel after 2 cycles.

The thyroid is definitely helping my energy levels. And I am sleeping much better with the Kavinace and Progesterone. I am getting up early and having (mostly) sustained energy throughout the day. I keep waiting for the energy crash throughout the day (like after I clean the bathroom or workout) and the crash does not come. I am so happy about this! Now I can clean, play with my kids, and get up in the morning with them and function like a normal person. This is only day 5 and I feel SO much better. Now I need to get on testosterone and DHEA to bring me up to optimum levels. I find out today what my free testosterone is, my total was 30. Of course my husband is determined for me to get on testosterone like yesterday :0)

This is excellent. It sounds as if in your case, progesterone actually flows down stream into just the right amount of cortisol to keep up your energy. You're lucky, for many women it just makes them tired due to how their body metabolizes the hormone.

It took a couple of months atleast for my libido to jump up there so it's best not to expect an onvernight transformation when you start T. Strangely, my libido was never low even though I had low T levels (total in the 20's, free T at 0.5). But I found that once on T my sexual responses were faster, I got much better clitoral engorgement and many more sexual thoughts. In fact, maybe due to the way my brain is wired, I developed an almost insatiable sexual desire....now, I feel empathy for what it must be like as an eighteen year old male LOL. It got to the point where my husband couldn't possibly keep up. I had to cut back my dose...things were normalized then...we are all so different in our responses. My hypersexuality revealed itself at the same time as more of an aggressive personality and acne on my chin. Things to watch out for!

[bp2000]

What the hell...did the world end or something you guy's all of a sudden quit posting in this thread. Talking about the UPS man and all that stuff...then grasshoppers

A yearly update would be nice at least once a year...c'mon!

[keep fightin]

I'm with bp2000! you guys got my wife and I all excited! we are just getting her started on nhrt and this is such a great thread! look 3 explanation points already....

[VMAAG]

Well I guess Blood Work is the next thing to get done. I am going to have her read this thread and see if she wants to get it done. I don't know why she wouldn't. Also no she is not on birth control I was snipped many many moons ago and she doesn't need it. She just turned 47 so I think Blood work is in order to see what we can do to help her out so I will keep everyone posted once we get that done.

BW is the first place to start to assess where she is at baseline. At 47 she is prime to start looking into hormone therapy. For women this would include estrogen (bi-est), progesterone, testosterone , DHEA-S and pregnenolone. She really wouldn't want to wait to assess her status because she can address small deficiencies now before things get worse and of course they (her hormones) will continue to decline and things will get worse. For most this is the normal aging process. If she wants to maintain her health, youful appearance and lean muscle tissue now is the time. Hope that hepls

[lovbyts]

Reading all this has just convinced me I have been making the right choice all along, trade them in before they reach 35.

Some good info here. Mine is only 31 but we still want to make sure to keep an eye on things so they dont get out of whack and now I know more what to look for.

Yeah she knows about the expiration date and gives me just as much sh*t. Mine expired 20 years ago. LOL

[ktmsmith'swife]

Hello, this is ktmsmith's wife and I am responding to PPC's post in regards to my levels as well as wondering about my own progress and what I might change and/or improve over what the doctor has done to date. I do think I would like my T levels to be a bit higher as the libido is not where I want it and I would really like to have more strength so that workouts are more effective and maybe someday I can have a toned body and not be so soft all over. I am 48 years old, 5'7" and weigh 137 lbs. My weight has alsways been pretty stable but I believe I have less muscle and more fat than in my younger years. I want that to change, I don't want to be tired or achy from old age and I am willing to do what it takes to feel good including the exercise and a well balanced diet . In 2010 I had an overy removed and I wonder about the effects of one less ovary. I had been experiencing occaisonal night sweats along with considerable moodiness-crying for no reason which is not me at all. These have been eliviated since begining BHRT. My first blood work results were in Nov. as follows:
DHEA-S 173.4
Estradiol 153.9
Progesterone 0.3
Free Test 1.0
Total Test 14
TSH 1.73
Free T3 3.0

I have been prescribed Armour Thyro 15mg once daily tablet, Testosterone 1/4 ml daily (cream), Progesterone 250 mg/daily tablet.

Bloodwork 2/18/12

DHEA-S 224.9 (up 51.5)
Estradiol 50.1 (down 123.3)
Progesterone 9.3 (up 9.0)
Free Test 1.7 (up 0.7)
Total Test - did not test this time?
TSH 0.74 (down 0.99)
Free T3 2.9 (down 0.10)

He did not change my scripts-said lets see what another 3 months does for your T. I was hoping for a stronger script for the T. The doc was more interested in asking my hubby if I was less bitchy now....I was never bitchy to begin with so no real good answer on that one but the doc is 76 years old and I think he believes most women get bitchy when hormones are out of whack....not the case with me..I did cry but I even hid that from the hubby till I was seriously concerned and wanted to see a doctor about it. He, of course was completely supportive as he always is and now we are both on track to being healthier and younger feeling. Any comments on what I should be looking for, tests I should have done and what I might expect will be much appreciated....thanks!
Hello and welcome. Nice to have you here.

You are correct to think the loss of your ovary may be related to some of your hormone loss. The weepiness and night sweats after your surgery are very common. Your ovaries make the majority of your testosterone and the first blood test result at 14 was extremely low, as was your Free Test . The loss of an ovary can have a negative hormonal impact on a woman at any age but having it removed in your mid to late forties exasperates things. You were wise to seek out bio identical hormone repla***ent.

I would love to know about what day of your cycle you had your first and second blood tests taken. That will tell us quite a bit about the state of each hormone tested. As you know, our hormones make big dips and climbs each month so test days give us more clues as to what is really happening. Currently, you are very low in estrogen. Even if this current test was taken during your period or before ovulation, 50 is a low result. It indicates a movement toward menopausal estrogen levels.

Why did your Doc think your estrogen number was too high in the first test ? If it was taken in the second part of your cycle ie your luteal phase, then it looked nice. Yes, your progesterone was terribly low and again it gives very strong clues that you may have had a cycle without the release of an egg, so...basically no progesterone. That's very common for women with only one ovary.

Your Testosterone levels have come up but female hormones are fickle and while it is good your testosterone is no longer so low, your new low estrogen could be detracting from a healthy libido. Women, first need a nice baseline of estrogen. That helps us feel feminine and keeps the vagina well lubricated and youthful. Testosterone is the next layer which fuels more carnal desire and heightens genital sensitivity. The two must go hand in hand. Testosterone without enough estrogen will usually just result in increased aggression. So there's a delicate dance here. You'll find it. It usually takes a while to get hormones back to levels that look good on paper but also make each unique women feel "right."

It also looks like you are not having an easy time getting your thyroid hormone levels optimized. He may need to up your dose slowly. If that causes heart palpitations you may need to take some supps to help you adrenal glands support your thyroid hormones better. Selenium, iodine and Vitamin C are the first few that come to mind.

I would make sure to get an FSH test next time. That tests your follicole stimulating hormone . If it is high then you know your body is pressing the accelerator very hard for your ovaries to work. That happens when menopause is near and the body wants the ovaries to do their thing but they just don't know how anymore.

I would talk to your doctor about getting a compounded script for estrogen, in the form of biest. You'll be needing it.

He is having you take quite a lot of progesterone. Most women cannot handle that much orally. Personally, it makes me feel drowsy and bloated at the doses you are taking. But each women is unique. Some women find a nightly dose of 200mg of progesterone calms anxiety and allows them to sleep. At present, your progesterone is dominant over your estrogen levels and trust me, that is not good for libido. YOu need progesterone but you just need it in levels enough to balance out your progesterone.

So you have made a start. You can stay the course and press for more tests and more scripts with this Doc. He has been open minded enough to atleast give you Testosterone . Or you could find another Doc...maybe a female who understands more about the delicate balance that is required for female HRT . Don't give up. You'll get there.

[ktmsmith'swife]

Ok, so I recent accidentally hijacked my husbands thread which I have copied my portion above.

I have a couple more questions after reading PPC's response to my most recent BW. First, I have an IUD because I was having heavy periods. I have had it for 3 years and do not have a period since it was put in. Therefore I do not know what part of my cycle I am in or if I even have a cycle so in addition to having only 1 ovary I wonder what the effects of the IUD may have on my hormonal output. Both of my blood tests were taken on the 18th of the month so if I am having a cycle I would have been in the same part of the cycle for both tests. I knew nothing about my levels when going in for the first test and the doctor made it sound like my Estrogen was super high. He said not the highest he has seen but way way to high and I was Estrogen Dominent. The more I read the less confident I am in his assessments, only plus is he may be mallable to prescribing what I want after I research and determine what is right for me....we will see.

It appears that my E has now gone too low and the doctor did not address that issue at all duirng my last visit and he does not want to see me for 4 months. I am thinking that the E should be addressed sooner rather than waiting to see if I start to feel poorly because of low E and not high enough T.

Any other thoughts for me? I am pretty sure I would like to get another blood test including my Total T and the FSH. How long should I wait for another set of BW and should I get it on the same day of the month as the last 2?

[PPC]

Ok, so I recent accidentally hijacked my husbands thread which I have copied my portion above.

I have a couple more questions after reading PPC's response to my most recent BW. First, I have an IUD because I was having heavy periods. I have had it for 3 years and do not have a period since it was put in. Therefore I do not know what part of my cycle I am in or if I even have a cycle so in addition to having only 1 ovary I wonder what the effects of the IUD may have on my hormonal output. Both of my blood tests were taken on the 18th of the month so if I am having a cycle I would have been in the same part of the cycle for both tests. I knew nothing about my levels when going in for the first test and the doctor made it sound like my Estrogen was super high. He said not the highest he has seen but way way to high and I was Estrogen Dominent. The more I read the less confident I am in his assessments, only plus is he may be mallable to prescribing what I want after I research and determine what is right for me....we will see.

It appears that my E has now gone too low and the doctor did not address that issue at all duirng my last visit and he does not want to see me for 4 months. I am thinking that the E should be addressed sooner rather than waiting to see if I start to feel poorly because of low E and not high enough T.

Any other thoughts for me? I am pretty sure I would like to get another blood test including my Total T and the FSH. How long should I wait for another set of BW and should I get it on the same day of the month as the last 2?

I am assuming your IUD uses a progestin to make your uterine lining inhospitable to implantation rather than a copper IUD? Apparently the type of IUD that you have keeps the hormone localized to your uterus so it does not get in the blood stream. Hmmm, it is a synthetic hormone but if it stays local, it is most likely just your age and the loss of an ovary leading to your other low hormones. Still, it makes one wonder. Apparently, your ovaries still function while on the IUD, so that is why you still had sufficient estrogen on your first test. Not too high, but it was out of balance since you did not have any progesterone to counter it's effects.

I would be as procative with all this as you feel to be. You are correct that your E needs to be addressed now, especially since you are using T. It is your life, your body so you can manage yourself with the help of doctors. They should not dictate your protocol. Keep searching until you find the right doctor where you feel the fit is good. In the meantime you can order your own tests online if you want through privatemdlabs.com.

Yes, get the blood tests close to the same time. We cannot know what part of your cycle that is though. Do you feel yourself ovulate? Any pain or cramping on one side of your abdomen sometimes. That would be an indication of your ovaries trying to ovulate and that is usually about day 14 of a cycle. If you have any of that, it might clue us in a bit.

You could read any of Dr Uzzi Reiss's books and maybe one or two of Suzanne Somers. They talk a lot about the delicate balance required for female HRT. One of our longstanding female members here has put together a bunch of threads about female hormones entitled "Threads For Your Female Friends to Enjoy." It is now a sticky...up top here. Have you read some of that? It's a place to start.