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  1. #1
    arizona32's Avatar
    arizona32 is offline Junior Member
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    Do you think HCG is necessary long term for HRT?

    I've noticed that my acne flares up 2 days after each HCG injection (even with use of Adex), especially after I have just mixed a new vial and the HCG is most potent. I'm thinking of quitting the HCG. When I first started TRT I didn't use it and had no problems with testicular shrinkage. Are there any reasons I'm not aware of for staying on HCG? Do you guys think it's ok to discontinue?
    Thanks

  2. #2
    JohnnyVegas's Avatar
    JohnnyVegas is offline Knowledgeable Member- Recognized Member Winner - $100
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    Be careful using Adex if you don't know for sure you need it. My doc has me on HCG for shrinkage and it works at 800 units a week. What is your dosage?

  3. #3
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    I didn't notice any shrinkage in the first year either, now after 18 months, my nuts are like a couple grapes in a deflated balloon. I've got HCG on order and after what I've experienced, I'm pretty certain I'll be using it from now on. Not to mention, if you're ever interested in having kids, it's pretty much a necessity. I'd say that trumps the acne. Have you had your E2 levels tested recently? I've found that getting mine under control helped quite a bit with the acne.

  4. #4
    Vettester is offline Banned
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    Like Vegas mentioned, what is your dosage? Also, the frequency?

  5. #5
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    Testicular E2 levels in some men can be high with hCG usage and an AI has no affect. If you haven't you should have your E2 levels checked as standard procotol and see if the hCG is increasing testicle E2 levels. If you are on an AI and you still have E2 issues this could be the source.

    In my opinion, the benefits of needing hCG far out way the negs for so many reasons.

  6. #6
    arizona32's Avatar
    arizona32 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdevine View Post
    Testicular E2 levels in some men can be high with hCG usage and an AI has no affect. If you haven't you should have your E2 levels checked as standard procotol and see if the hCG is increasing testicle E2 levels. If you are on an AI and you still have E2 issues this could be the source.

    In my opinion, the benefits of needing hCG far out way the negs for so many reasons.
    What benefits?
    My current dosage is 250 iu, 2xweek
    My E2 levels are low, 20, even without the AI. The AI has helped with acne and morning wood, but I still get breakouts 2 days after HCG use. Like "gdevine" posted, I have heard that HCG can spike E2 even with use of an AI. That's why I was interested in trying to discontinue the HCG.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by arizona32 View Post
    What benefits?

    * You need hCG if you ever want to restart again.
    * You need hCG if you ever want children
    * You need hCG for clear mental functioning
    * You need hCG for the production of Pregnenolone - The foundation for most of you hormones
    * You need hCG if you don't want your balls and sack to look like my 6 year old - plus chicks just don't dig it ;-)
    * You need hCG if you don't want your balls to ache 24/7 as they atrophy
    * There's more...


    My current dosage is 250 iu, 2xweek

    * That's not a lot to be honest with you. I inject 250 iu EOD.

    My E2 levels are low, 20, even without the AI. The AI has helped with acne and morning wood, but I still get breakouts 2 days after HCG use. Like "gdevine" posted, I have heard that HCG can spike E2 even with use of an AI. That's why I was interested in trying to discontinue the HCG.
    * If your E2 levels are in the low 20's with no AI then you don't need it...for now. E2 levels in the testes can rise with exogenous T and an AI can't control it. But this is the exception rather then the norm for most men.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdevine View Post
    * If your E2 levels are in the low 20's with no AI then you don't need it...for now. E2 levels in the testes can rise with exogenous T and an AI can't control it. But this is the exception rather then the norm for most men.
    How's that? I was of the understanding that E2 increase was due to the aromatization of T into E which is exactly what AI's prevent, hens the name, Aromatise Inhibitor [AI]. Are there other ways the testes produce straight E without aromatization?

  9. #9
    JohnnyVegas's Avatar
    JohnnyVegas is offline Knowledgeable Member- Recognized Member Winner - $100
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    I also agree that you shouldn't use an AI if your E levels are low. I was afraid my E levels were high and took some liquidex...and it messed me up. All my joints hurt after a new days and it dried me out. I recently had blood work done and she told me "your E levels are really low, even with your high Test levels, don't EVER take a blocker." I didn't have the balls (no pun intended) to tell her I tried it and it kicked my *ss.

    If you have dropped your estrogen down to nothing, you can have limited gains and similar sides to high estrogen. At least that is my understanding.

  10. #10
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    +1 ^^^

    Low E sucks! No need for AI unless you E high, and I wouldn't let it go below 20.

  11. #11
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    +2 ^^^

    I have to keep my E in a very narrow range because I get gyno easily. Low E is really a problem! I hate it, my wife hates it!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrest_and_trees View Post
    How's that? I was of the understanding that E2 increase was due to the aromatization of T into E which is exactly what AI's prevent, hens the name, Aromatise Inhibitor [AI]. Are there other ways the testes produce straight E without aromatization?
    Yes! T can convert to E intra testicular and it has nothing to do with the Aromatase Enzyme.

  13. #13
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Thanks gdevine. I was convinced my E2 went up when I started HCG , but I had no tests to prove or disprove my thoughts, and I couldn't find any info on limits of AI affectiveness in testicular cells.

  14. #14
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    bass is offline HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas View Post
    I also agree that you shouldn't use an AI if your E levels are low. I was afraid my E levels were high and took some liquidex...and it messed me up. All my joints hurt after a new days and it dried me out. I recently had blood work done and she told me "your E levels are really low, even with your high Test levels, don't EVER take a blocker." I didn't have the balls (no pun intended) to tell her I tried it and it kicked my *ss.

    If you have dropped your estrogen down to nothing, you can have limited gains and similar sides to high estrogen. At least that is my understanding.
    exactly right! my last blood work showed my E below 20 and my back muscles are in pain. my clinic said to keep it at around 30...

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