TRT plus ????? for a blast

[NOSUPERMODEL]

I was wanting to get some ideas on what other AAS to put with my TRT dose when I do a blast in January. Well I assume you add another AAS and not just up your test to high amounts. I see a lot of people use Deca and Test together, but I was just wondering if there are others out there you might recommend. I am not completely comfortable with the whole process of a blast, but I am going to research that some more on how its done. I just want to get some ideas of other AAS to combine with my test so that I can research those to see what they do(strength gain, size gain, weight loss) and the side effects.

Also, do you lift completely different while doing a blast? For example: do you lift heavier for less reps? Lift lighter for more reps? How often do you train? Do you eat more?

My main goal is to lose about 20-25 lbs of fat(and yes I am doing cardio) and put on about 10lbs. of muscle. I would also really like develop my chest more, which I am working on now. I tend to use a lot of shoulder during chest presses and it is hurting the development of my pecs. So I am having to really learn form right now and correct my form.

Any help at all would be appreciated. Like I said I am not planning this until January. Too much going on in the summer, little league football coming up, and then the holidays. So January will be about as soon as I can really focus on diet, and stay away from bad choices and really focus.

[steroid.com 1]

For what it's worth NSM, you could be better served posting this on another relevant forum here. Most here are Low T (for any number of reasons) as you know and are on protocols to bring them back to high normal levels. That being said, someone here may help you as well as I've never done a blast...

[JohnnyVegas]

I would think that just upping your Test is the best way to go. I always read that beginners should run a moderate amount of Test only. Don't add a second compound.

Really what you will be doing it running a cycle. So, I would do a bunch of reading on beginner cycles. The only difference between a "cycle" and a "blast" is that we don't do PCT, we just go back to our maintenance TRT level.

[NOSUPERMODEL]

Okay. Thanks for the replies. I will try and post it in another area.

[zaggahamma]

in contrast to JV...i've always had the belief and self experience of adding another compound rather than just upping the dose of test....i had a wonderful little blast on a low dose of deca and recommend it very much...i actually, like yourself was on a "cut" when i added it and i achieved said goals with it lost 20lbs of weight(had to have been mostly fat) and continued with strength gains while losing weight...
as far as training goes...you'll get better advice from that forum(not sure name right now) but in answer to your question on lifting on blast...no...just lift to failure on heavy as you can that you can do around 10 times (8-15 rep range is usually good) but cardio is your friend at this point my friend...diet, depending on your goals can be the most important as you prolly already know...you could even post that up in the diet section if your going to go all out...
yes, you said it yourself...strict form first...no ego

[steroid.com 1]

[QUOTE=jpkman;5671306]in ...just lift to failure on heavy as you can that you can do around 10 times (8-15 rep range is usually good)

Jman is right! For the past 7 months I lift to failure one to two times a week and all I can say is the results are fantastic! Problem is I get a "free high" on the last set and rep as the BP is skyrocketing. It's a painful WO but man does it give results on a TRT protocol!

[NOSUPERMODEL]

Thank you for all the replies. I really want to have this planned out and know exactly what I need to do and what I am going to take so that I can take full advantage of it. I am definately going to try and lose some weight from now until January to get a head start. I however am having a hard time losing fat right now.

[zaggahamma]

Thank you for all the replies. I really want to have this planned out and know exactly what I need to do and what I am going to take so that I can take full advantage of it. I am definately going to try and lose some weight from now until January to get a head start. I however am having a hard time losing fat right now.

if you dont NEED to be sitting/laying DONT

dont even reply to this unless your on your iphone/blackberry and at a nice pace

you get the point...but we're definitely wishing you reach your goal bro

[38jumper38]

to blast on trt or not depends in your blood work, for example: I use to have test levels at 300, with 200mg test/week I jump at 2500, and 3 blood test later I'm still at 2500. So the question is: Why at so high level of test, I still want to blast? there is no need for me to jump to 5000 (test levels), I can put a lot muscle and strength at 2500, and I'll be there for long time. my opinion is that you need to look at your own test levels, maybe add deca , 200mg/week if you wish and do like the other say, lift and diet.

[zaggahamma]

to blast on trt or not depends in your blood work, for example: I use to have test levels at 300, with 200mg test/week I jump at 2500, and 3 blood test later I'm still at 2500. So the question is: Why at so high level of test, I still want to blast? there is no need for me to jump to 5000 (test levels), I can put a lot muscle and strength at 2500, and I'll be there for long time. my opinion is that you need to look at your own test levels, maybe add deca, 200mg/week if you wish and do like the other say, lift and diet.

Super post

[kelkel]

2500 on trt, damn! I'm jealous! Great doc!

[NOSUPERMODEL]

Exactly!!!! 2500 test levels. I had mine tested 36 hours after a shot and it was only 1352.

[JD250]

I've been using 200mg ew of deca along with about 230mg test ew for about 5 or 6 weeks.......I LIKE IT!!!! I swear I can put on muscle just by looking at weights...I wish!! I wont say ANYTHING bad about this smallish blast with deca, feel great, losing fat, workouts feel good, putting on muscle. Come January or Feb. I intend to maybe come back with a dose of deca that will be a little more anabolic .

[NOSUPERMODEL]

if you dont NEED to be sitting/laying DONT

dont even reply to this unless your on your iphone/blackberry and at a nice pace

you get the point...but we're definitely wishing you reach your goal bro

I get the point. Bad thing is I have a desk job, and sit most of the day. Other than that I don't sit down until about 10:30 at night. I will definately keep with it and eventually I will reach my goals. Guess I need to work on patience. LOL!!!!

[sirupate]

to blast on trt or not depends in your blood work, for example: I use to have test levels at 300, with 200mg test/week I jump at 2500, and 3 blood test later I'm still at 2500. So the question is: Why at so high level of test, I still want to blast? there is no need for me to jump to 5000 (test levels), I can put a lot muscle and strength at 2500, and I'll be there for long time. my opinion is that you need to look at your own test levels, maybe add deca, 200mg/week if you wish and do like the other say, lift and diet.

Geez...may endo would stroke out if my BW came back at 2500. I was at about 1800 a few months back and he dialed me down immediately.

[sirupate]

I've been using 200mg ew of deca along with about 230mg test ew for about 5 or 6 weeks.......I LIKE IT!!!! I swear I can put on muscle just by looking at weights...I wish!! I wont say ANYTHING bad about this smallish blast with deca, feel great, losing fat, workouts feel good, putting on muscle. Come January or Feb. I intend to maybe come back with a dose of deca that will be a little more anabolic.

What is the effect of adding deca to your libido?

[zaggahamma]

I get the point. Bad thing is I have a desk job, and sit most of the day. Other than that I don't sit down until about 10:30 at night. I will definately keep with it and eventually I will reach my goals. Guess I need to work on patience. LOL!!!!

Hate those fn desk jobs instead of coffee breaks,etc..i would take walks..desk jobs r the worse

[JohnnyVegas]

Great thread. I agree with everything above. I was recommending one compound and a bunch of research because he seems new to AAS and I think we should have a firm understanding of these drugs before using. I think it is too easy for us TRT guys because we feel like we are already on steroids and the next step is just increasing the dose a bit. That belief allows us to bypass the knowledge we should have before putting larger quantities of powerful drugs in our bodies.

[38jumper38]

What is the effect of adding deca to your libido?

I believe with a low dose of 200mg/week won't have too much effect in libido, will help put muscle.

[JD250]

What is the effect of adding deca to your libido?

If you dose test along with it properly......none

at 200ish or less deca provides a collagen synthesis effect which makes your joints feel gooder but you need to keep the test dose at about the same for that effect.

If you just want a great anabolic effect with few sides then a much higher dose of both would suit you fine.......you gotta keep the test up or you'll get "deca dick".....that just sounds scarier than shit, don't it.

Here are 2 short write ups about it.....check them both out.....good info

http://www.steroid.com/Deca-Durabolin.php


http://www.steroid.com/Nandrolone.php



And here's a copy and paste about collagen synthesis that is worth considering


Increase skeletal muscle & collagen synthesis with certain AAS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(originally posted by AnimalMass)

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

[kelkel]

great info. My endo didn't like it when I came back 850ish and thats on A-gel! Old school thinking. I'm sure I'll switch to cyp in the future.....

[NOSUPERMODEL]

So maybe Deca might be what I need to look into. Because I have been having pain in my joints(maybe tendons). However...me not being able to get wood is really going to piss me off...not to mention my wife. LOL!!!

I have about 6 months to get it figured out. So I am going to keep reading replies and doing research. I want to get the most I can out of the blast.

[JD250]

If you keep your test levels up getting wood won't be a problem, I've been doing 230mg test along with 200deca and I can still do "two-a-days" with the wife, best wood I've had in years Hardcore BBers laugh at 200 mgs of deca ew....it really is a small dose but it does help with joint pain and does help in the gym a little.......I guess you could call it a blast, probably more like a mini blast

Nothing wrong with a heavy Test blast either for the first one.

Good luck and keep us posted when the time comes....I'll be doing another blast about the same time , maybe we can compare notes at that time.

[zaggahamma]

thats just it..most trt'ers dont want to put on 20 pounds plus....therefore these low dose deca additions are perfect...just a little extra lbm and joint relief

[subnet]

very tempting to try this as well - been thinking of Anavar but perhaps Deca would be a good alternative, not to mention much cheaper...

[zaggahamma]

very tempting to try this as well - been thinking of Anavar but perhaps Deca would be a good alternative, not to mention much cheaper...

i think bass likes the anavar ....maybe he'll chime in there

[subnet]

i think bass likes the anavar....maybe he'll chime in there

yeah jpk, I know Vetteman and others really like Anavar too. Price is 3x deca though - perhaps more.

[zaggahamma]

yeah jpk, I know Vetteman and others really like Anavar too. Price is 3x deca though - perhaps more.

actually since you chimed in first...i was being sarcastic...i think bass had some poor bloodwork after starting var....

i would run deca anyday over var

[subnet]

haha oops - been AWOL from here for quite some time and guess I missed that thread!

[bubbafrombama]

DECA -DURABOLIN Weakens Tendons and Collagen

Is it just a coincidence that bodybuilders are more likely to suffer injuries because of heavy training, or does the use of anabolic -androgenic steroids (AAS) have any impact on tendon/collagen strength? The research is very preliminary, as only a few studies have examined the effects of AAS on tendon and collagen strength. It was shown that anabolic steroids alter the biomechanical properties of tendons and reduce tendon flexibility.(1,2,3)

Some interesting theories have been suggested as why heavy anabolic steroid use can cause tendon injury, which is based around cortisol production and AAS. Researches have demonstrated that AAS combined with tension overload reduced MMP2 activity (MMP2 is a gene responsible for collagen production) and increased serum values of cortisol.(4) During cortisol treatment, the serum levels of genes responsible for collagen production decrease, suggesting that cortisol suppresses the synthesis of collagen production.(5) The reduction in genes for collagen and tendons have been speculated as to why AAS makes bodybuilders susceptible to injuries. New research links the use of high doses of anabolic steroids to tendon and collagen dysfunction, which may make a bodybuilder think twice about training heavily while using anabolics.

GENE EXPRESSION IN TENDONS/COLLAGEN AFTER HEAVY AAS USE

Researchers in the European Journal of Applied Physiology examined how heavy use of the anabolic steroid Deca-Durabolin affected collagen strength in rats. The rats were separated into two groups: natural training and training with heavy anabolic steroid use. The dose the researchers administered to the rats was considered supra-physiological – Deca-Durabolin (nandrolone decanoate) 5mg/kg of bodyweight.

The rats were cleverly forced to perform resistance exercise, but you can’t just tell a rat to start benching – so the researchers attached weights to the rats’ backs. They dropped the rats into a tank of water and the rats immediately jumped out of the water as soon as they were dunked. Every week, the researchers gradually made the weight on the rats’ backs heavier and heavier until at the end of seven weeks the weight was 80 percent of their bodyweight. The researchers dropped the rats in the tank so that they performed this for 4 sets x 10 repetitions of “jumps” with 30-second rest periods. After that, they rats were sacrificed and the rats’ tendons and collagen were examined for gene expression.

There were some very interesting findings after seven weeks of training with anabolic steroids, compared with the natty (natural) group of rats. The natty group did not have any biochemical changes in the rat tendon/collagen properties, while the anabolic steroid group had major changes.(6) The Deca-Durabolin group had reduced biochemical properties of genes involving tendon and collagen strength.

It is interesting to note that AAS administration reduced the accumulation of IGF-1 mRNA levels in some tendon regions, compared to the non-treated, trained group. This decrease of IGF-1 mRNA levels induced by AAS administration may be related to the observed decreases collagen expression when considering the possible connection between IGF-1 and collagen synthesis.(8) The AAS treatment also decreased the MMP-2 mRNA expression (this gene encodes an enzyme for collagen).

The above study is similar to another recently published study, which showed that nandrolone impaired the healing of rotator cuffs of rabbits. In the latter study, male rabbits underwent an incision in the rotator cuff and were divided into groups with anabolic steroids (nandrolone decanoate, 10mg/kg) and natural recovery. Groups that did not receive anabolic steroids showed better healing and more tendon strength compared to groups that received anabolic steroids. Microscopic examination of specimens from the groups with anabolic steroid use showed focal fibroblastic reaction and inflammation, suggesting an impaired healing response.(7)

The key point is that many of these studies were using supraphysiological dosages of steroids that could be like the typical Olympia stack – but the new research suggests that a high-volume approach to training with less weight may be a better approach to use for a bodybuilder than a high-intensity, heavy weight program that puts more stress on the tendons and makes them more susceptible to injury.

By Robbie Durand, M.A., Senior Science Editor of Muscular Development


References:

1. Evans NA, Bowrey DJ, Newman GR (1998) Ultrastructural analysis of ruptured tendon from anabolic steroid users. Injury, 29:769-773.
2: Marqueti RC, Prestes J, Paschoal M, Ramos OH, Perez SE, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2008) Matrix metallopeptidase 2 activity in tendon regions: effects of mechanical loading exercise associated to anabolic-androgenic steroids, Eur J Appl Physiol, 104:1087-1093.
3: Marqueti RC, Prestes J, Wang CC, Ramos OH, Perez SE, Nakagaki WR, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2010). Biomechanical responses of different rat tendons to nandrolone decanoate and load exercise. Scand J Med Sci Sports, 29.
4: Marqueti RC, Parizotto NA, Chriguer RS, Perez SEA, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2006) Androgenic-anabolic steroids associated with mechanical loading inhibit matrix metallopeptidase activity and affect the remodeling of the Achilles tendon in rats. Am J Sport Med, 34:1274-1280.
5: Oikarinen A, Autio P, Vuori J, Va¨a¨na¨nen K, Risteli L, Kiistala U, Risteli J (1992) Systemic glucocorticoid treatment decreases serum concentrations of carboxyterminal propeptide of type I procollagen and aminoterminal propeptide of type III procollagen. Br J Dermatol, 126:172-178.
6: Marqueti RC, Heinemeier KM, Durigan JL, de Andrade Perez SE, Schjerling P, Kjaer M, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS. Erratum to: Gene expression in distinct regions of rat tendons in response to jump training combined with anabolic androgenic steroid administration. Eur J Appl Physiol, 2011 Sep 8.
7: Papaspiliopoulos A, Papaparaskeva K, Papadopoulou E, Feroussis J, Papalois A, Zoubos A. The effect of local use of nandrolone decanoate on rotator cuff repair in rabbits. J Invest Surg, 2010 Aug;23(4):204-7.
8: Heinemeier KM, Olesen JL, Schjerling P, Hassad F, Langberg H, Baldwin KM, Kjaer M (2007b) Short-term strength training and the expression of myostatin and IGF-1 isoforms in rat muscle and tendon: differential effects of specific contraction types. J Appl Physiol, 102:573-581.

[Bill_boy2005]

Bumped an old one. But a very good read.

[zaggahamma]

i dont mind relevant bumps it seems that there are studies that show that it strengthens and some like this that show it weakens

[SEOINAGE]

Even old I read through a little bit, find it interesting several of you train to failure. Something I haven't done in years, try to set myself up for success, get close to failure but never hit it, although it sometimes happens. would be interesting on TRT how much I would have to change with my training to get the most out of it.

When I read this last study posted here i don't think, oh that is conclusive evidence the end result is weakened tendons and ligaments, but it does show some interesting responses.

[zaggahamma]

I definitely agree with the theory of taking it slow when going on trt and using that boost of strength slowly not getting all excited and hurting yourself...i got tendoitis in the elbows to show for going up in dumbell work when i first started
new meaning for dumbell

[kelkel]

It's the Rat version of waterboarding! Interesting though....

DECA -DURABOLIN Weakens Tendons and Collagen

The rats were cleverly forced to perform resistance exercise, but you can’t just tell a rat to start benching – so the researchers attached weights to the rats’ backs. They dropped the rats into a tank of water and the rats immediately jumped out of the water as soon as they were dunked. Every week, the researchers gradually made the weight on the rats’ backs heavier and heavier until at the end of seven weeks the weight was 80 percent of their bodyweight. The researchers dropped the rats in the tank so that they performed this for 4 sets x 10 repetitions of “jumps” with 30-second rest periods. After that, they rats were sacrificed and the rats’ tendons and collagen were examined for gene expression.

There were some very interesting findings after seven weeks of training with anabolic steroids , compared with the natty (natural) group of rats. The natty group did not have any biochemical changes in the rat tendon/collagen properties, while the anabolic steroid group had major changes.(6) The Deca-Durabolin group had reduced biochemical properties of genes involving tendon and collagen strength.

It is interesting to note that AAS administration reduced the accumulation of IGF-1 mRNA levels in some tendon regions, compared to the non-treated, trained group. This decrease of IGF-1 mRNA levels induced by AAS administration may be related to the observed decreases collagen expression when considering the possible connection between IGF-1 and collagen synthesis.(8) The AAS treatment also decreased the MMP-2 mRNA expression (this gene encodes an enzyme for collagen).

The above study is similar to another recently published study, which showed that nandrolone impaired the healing of rotator cuffs of rabbits. In the latter study, male rabbits underwent an incision in the rotator cuff and were divided into groups with anabolic steroids (nandrolone decanoate, 10mg/kg) and natural recovery. Groups that did not receive anabolic steroids showed better healing and more tendon strength compared to groups that received anabolic steroids. Microscopic examination of specimens from the groups with anabolic steroid use showed focal fibroblastic reaction and inflammation, suggesting an impaired healing response.(7)

The key point is that many of these studies were using supraphysiological dosages of steroids that could be like the typical Olympia stack – but the new research suggests that a high-volume approach to training with less weight may be a better approach to use for a bodybuilder than a high-intensity, heavy weight program that puts more stress on the tendons and makes them more susceptible to injury.

By Robbie Durand, M.A., Senior Science Editor of Muscular Development


References:

1. Evans NA, Bowrey DJ, Newman GR (1998) Ultrastructural analysis of ruptured tendon from anabolic steroid users. Injury, 29:769-773.
2: Marqueti RC, Prestes J, Paschoal M, Ramos OH, Perez SE, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2008) Matrix metallopeptidase 2 activity in tendon regions: effects of mechanical loading exercise associated to anabolic-androgenic steroids, Eur J Appl Physiol, 104:1087-1093.
3: Marqueti RC, Prestes J, Wang CC, Ramos OH, Perez SE, Nakagaki WR, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2010). Biomechanical responses of different rat tendons to nandrolone decanoate and load exercise. Scand J Med Sci Sports, 29.
4: Marqueti RC, Parizotto NA, Chriguer RS, Perez SEA, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2006) Androgenic-anabolic steroids associated with mechanical loading inhibit matrix metallopeptidase activity and affect the remodeling of the Achilles tendon in rats. Am J Sport Med, 34:1274-1280.
5: Oikarinen A, Autio P, Vuori J, Va¨a¨na¨nen K, Risteli L, Kiistala U, Risteli J (1992) Systemic glucocorticoid treatment decreases serum concentrations of carboxyterminal propeptide of type I procollagen and aminoterminal propeptide of type III procollagen. Br J Dermatol, 126:172-178.
6: Marqueti RC, Heinemeier KM, Durigan JL, de Andrade Perez SE, Schjerling P, Kjaer M, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS. Erratum to: Gene expression in distinct regions of rat tendons in response to jump training combined with anabolic androgenic steroid administration. Eur J Appl Physiol, 2011 Sep 8.
7: Papaspiliopoulos A, Papaparaskeva K, Papadopoulou E, Feroussis J, Papalois A, Zoubos A. The effect of local use of nandrolone decanoate on rotator cuff repair in rabbits. J Invest Surg, 2010 Aug;23(4):204-7.
8: Heinemeier KM, Olesen JL, Schjerling P, Hassad F, Langberg H, Baldwin KM, Kjaer M (2007b) Short-term strength training and the expression of myostatin and IGF-1 isoforms in rat muscle and tendon: differential effects of specific contraction types. J Appl Physiol, 102:573-581.

[zaggahamma]

It's the Rat version of waterboarding! Interesting though....

lmao

next we use PETA workers

[JD250]

I don't find this particular study of any use in this thread, this whole "study" is admittedly based on supraphysiological dosages whereas the doses we most commonly discuss for collagen effect are way less than what one would consider an anabolic dose, I don't think anyone here is under the delusion that taking extreme doses and lifting extremely heavy for a lifetime is going to do your joints and ligaments any good. Near as I can tell, and that's difficult to do with such vague values, the test they did on the rabbits would be the equivelant of me taking 1000mgs of nandrolone ....anyone pin a full gram of deca lately? It's been discussed here before that collagen synthesis happens best somewhere in the range of 300mgs of each test and deca or LESS.

The last paragraph in that study is the key to the whole "study" basically they have suggested that if you are in the habit of pinning a gram of deca and doing heavy workouts.....you may have joint problems. Anyone surprised?

It my mind it's much like any other compound that we put in our bodies, if done correctly it can work wonders, if abused it may still do what you want but there will be a trade off with other sides.

[LevMyshkin]

Sorry to bump an older thread, but haven't seen anything on this in my searches. (long time lurker here...it's entirely possible that I just missed what I was looking for.)

I've been working out for about 2 years, been on TRT for about 6 months now. My dose (we finally got it dialed in) is 140 mg/week. 34, 240 lbs. My baseline BW showed my test at 190 ng/dl (range 350 - 1000).

My question is this: I've thought about doing a blast. Nothing crazy, just maybe supplementing the Test-C for about 10 weeks and taking it up to 250 - 300 mg total. I'd want to try that before I thought about adding any other compounds (Var, Tren , etc.) to it. I'm also on .5 Arimidex /week and HCG . I don't want to jump in with too much too soon which is why I'd only consider upping the Test first to see how I fared with that. Is there a general time frame you guys think one should wait after starting TRT before one tries doing a blast? Should I stick with this for 6 more months before thinking about doing it? I'm still making some strength gains so the logical side of my brain says, "stay with this for now."

Then again, the part of my brain that was starved for test for years says, "MORE IS BETTER! MORE NOW!" LOL!

[jamotech]

Whats your current BF%...

[jamotech]

whats your test level now?