switching from Gel to Cyp

**zaggahamma** · 07-22-2011, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by funkymonk

So damn hard to draw exactly .25ml

I feel like the more I divvy up the dosage, the more apt each injection is to slight over/under dosing.

thats no reason not to try it just sayin....the exactness of the lines/dose isnt relevant imo...
BUT
trying it myself i saw no difference in once a week or splitting it up and opted for 26 less needles holes per year

**sirupate** · 07-22-2011, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by funkymonk

So damn hard to draw exactly .25ml

I feel like the more I divvy up the dosage, the more apt each injection is to slight over/under dosing.

Understand, but know that you can get .5cc slin pin syringes that allow you to measure pretty exactly if you decide to pin twice per week. The 29 gauge needle is pretty painless too. I'm not getting that pain in my quads from having injected a large amount of test. cyp. all at once, and almost never getting any bleeding post injection at the site.

**zaggahamma** · 07-22-2011, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by sirupate

Understand, but know that you can get .5cc slin pin syringes that allow you to measure pretty exactly if you decide to pin twice per week. The 29 gauge needle is pretty painless too. I'm not getting that pain in my quads from having injected a large amount of test. cyp. all at once, and almost never getting any bleeding post injection at the site.

yeh if i were to want/need to pin twice i would want this

**funkymonk** · 07-22-2011, 05:06 PM

So for slin pins, you just draw and pin with the same needle/syringe right?

**funkymonk** · 07-25-2011, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by jpkman

good question...slippery slope...you dont want to ruin that good feeling you have...but...like G mentioned, it may build up over time and the e2 will creep a little higher...maybe a very light weekly dose of AI to help with the water retention (you say you are only looking bloaty in the face?) glad youre feeling well...any strength gains at all...mirror making you happy(er)?

So will the rate of aromatization increase over time?

**funkymonk** · 07-27-2011, 08:01 AM

Ok, I need to talk about this.

My highish e2 level is worrying (moreso confusing) me.

I swear I'm retaining water. I've been cutting at a normal 500cal deficit with EC for 3 weeks, and the scale has barely budged. I initially thought it was due to the 3g of daily creatine I've added, and/or that I've possibly added a little muscle even though in a deficit, but the numbers just don't make sense.

high e2 symptoms I don't have:
-libido problems--every girl between the age of 18 and 45 looks appealing to me now
-erection problems--still get MW every morning, and erections are rock hard
-nipple/chest sensitivity--absolutely no pain or feeling at all in my nipple area

high e2 symptoms I do have:
-water retention--I swear I am carrying water. Why else would the scale not be moving? I have always lost weight with this method of cutting in the past.
-nipple potrusion--maybe I'm just paranoid because I know that my e2 is slightly elevated, but I feel like the fat around my general lower chest has grown. The thing is, it feels hard almost like the fat I carry near my gut, so I'm wondering if I'm just predisposed to store fat there first and lose it there last. My chest

What's my next step?
After my most recent bloods (results came in 1 week ago), the dr. simply called and said "Everything's in the normal range. No need to come in."
1) Should I go back and show him my own e2 results? I'm just barely out of range on e2, and am concerned that an AI may drop it too far. Plus, I'm not sure if my water retention issue is purely hypochondriatic or not. I guess there's always the possibility of him throttling it back to0 80mg/wk.
2) Should I just split my weekly dose to 2x50mg and see if that's enough to drop my e2?
3) Should I just chill out? My bloods were taken 4 and 5 weeks after switching to Cyp instead of gel, so I'm not sure if the dust still needs to settle before making any changes.

**zaggahamma** · 07-27-2011, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by funkymonk

Ok, I need to talk about this.

My highish e2 level is worrying (moreso confusing) me.

I swear I'm retaining water. I've been cutting at a normal 500cal deficit with EC for 3 weeks, and the scale has barely budged. I initially thought it was due to the 3g of daily creatine I've added, and/or that I've possibly added a little muscle even though in a deficit, but the numbers just don't make sense.

high e2 symptoms I don't have:
-libido problems--every girl between the age of 18 and 45 looks appealing to me now
-erection problems--still get MW every morning, and erections are rock hard
-nipple/chest sensitivity--absolutely no pain or feeling at all in my nipple area

high e2 symptoms I do have:
-water retention--I swear I am carrying water. Why else would the scale not be moving? I have always lost weight with this method of cutting in the past.
-nipple potrusion--maybe I'm just paranoid because I know that my e2 is slightly elevated, but I feel like the fat around my general lower chest has grown. The thing is, it feels hard almost like the fat I carry near my gut, so I'm wondering if I'm just predisposed to store fat there first and lose it there last.

After my most recent bloods (results came in 1 week ago), the dr. simply called and said "Everything's in the normal range. No need to come in."
Should I go back and show him my own e2 results? I'm just barely out of range on e2, and am concerned that an AI may drop it too far. Plus, I'm not sure if my water retention issue is purely hypochondriatic or not.
Should I just split my weekly dose to 2x50mg and see if that's enough to drop my e2?

i think its worth a try bro...i've heard a few guys swear it works for them...

are you able to test bf% anywhere..

can u post up your stats again...i will scroll back and see if they are in this thread in the meantime

**funkymonk** · 07-27-2011, 08:18 AM

21 years old
somewhere between 14 and 17% bodyfat
177lbs
5'11"

Total T was ~290 (280-800), e2 was ~20 (8-42) before treatment.
> 30% bodyfat from like 3rd grade to 10th
Terrible terrible self image issues between 7th and 10th grade, progessively better over time

Also, my e2 readings have all been calculated using a "female hormone panel" test from privatemdlabs.com, using the roche ECLIA method. Not sure if that matters.

EDIT: Apparently...the e2 reading I've been getting is not really applicable for me? According to Crisler's site, a range of 52ish is more akin to an actual range of mid 20s on the male scale.
http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/...stradiol-serum

Looks like I'm suffering from a large case of hypochondria. The normal male range is 3-70, mine was 52. I was using a scale of 8-42 this whole time, which would obviously give me a false positive for lab-indicated high e2. It's reassuring to know that my asymptomatic "high" e2 is really asymptomatic "normal" e2.

**zaggahamma** · 07-27-2011, 08:41 AM

i hear u bro...fat teenager here too..

have you posted up your diet in the diet forum or tried to tweak it and break thru this plateau via food/tweak in exercise...your saying all good (feeling wise)...maybe you need to mix something up....again, scale isnt as important as bf%

**OutLaw8.5** · 07-27-2011, 08:57 AM

Before I started my e2 was 40. SCale 42<

Taking 100a week my e2 currently 32. That a week after last shot. So I'm very curious to what it is at peak. I'M still holding a good bit of water and mid section weight, can't find a doctor willing to mess with e2... BUt I do feel night and day difference from pre trt so feel like I'm at least headed in the right direction

Be curious to how your levels change and how you feel if you do decide to go 2x a week. Keep us posted, I've enjoyed following your thread, thanks!

**funkymonk** · 07-27-2011, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by jpkman

i hear u bro...fat teenager here too..

have you posted up your diet in the diet forum or tried to tweak it and break thru this plateau via food/tweak in exercise...your saying all good (feeling wise)...maybe you need to mix something up....again, scale isnt as important as bf%

I know my diet isn't the issue--I've lost at on it even before TRT. The weird thing is, I look leaner in some places (lower back, thighs, love handles, arms), but not so much around my gut and chest. The former-fat-kid has left me with really stetchy skin (I can grab ANYWHERE on my body, and pull it out 1-2 inches.), so it's hard for me to be objective in my eyeballing bf%. I'm sure a large part of it is a combo of body dysmorphia and realizing how much fat you really had in the first place after the fact. The nonmoving scale just serves as another factor to induce irrational doubt.

We'll just let it ride for now. Edited my prior post, #48.

Whew this forum sure helps me alleviate a lot of my worries. When you actually type it out and get some a little feedback, it makes a world of difference. Thanks for the support everyone.

Originally Posted by OutLaw8.5

Before I started my e2 was 40. SCale 42<

Taking 100a week my e2 currently 32. That a week after last shot. So I'm very curious to what it is at peak. I'M still holding a good bit of water and mid section weight, can't find a doctor willing to mess with e2... But I do feel night and day difference from pre trt so feel like I'm at least headed in the right direction

Be curious to how your levels change and how you feel if you do decide to go 2x a week. Keep us posted, I've enjoyed following your thread, thanks!

I think I will just let things ride for the time being. I'll do a recheck in a few weeks and report back.

**sirupate** · 07-27-2011, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by funkymonk

So for slin pins, you just draw and pin with the same needle/syringe right?

Yes you do. I suppose drawing dulls the needle a little, but it is so small that there is still almost no pain.

**zaggahamma** · 07-27-2011, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by funkymonk

I know my diet isn't the issue--I've lost at on it even before TRT. The weird thing is, I look leaner in some places (lower back, thighs, love handles, arms), but not so much around my gut and chest. The former-fat-kid has left me with really stetchy skin (I can grab ANYWHERE on my body, and pull it out 1-2 inches.), so it's hard for me to be objective in my eyeballing bf%. I'm sure a large part of it is a combo of body dysmorphia and realizing how much fat you really had in the first place after the fact. The nonmoving scale just serves as another factor to induce irrational doubt.

We'll just let it ride for now. Edited my prior post, #48.

Whew this forum sure helps me alleviate a lot of my worries. When you actually type it out and get some a little feedback, it makes a world of difference. Thanks for the support everyone.

I think I will just let things ride for the time being. I'll do a recheck in a few weeks and report back.

everything you said makes perfect sense and i can totally relate to ALL of it...keep working hard at reaching your goal bro and keep us posted