Help! Feeling symptoms with total test of 354

**JD250** · 08-08-2011, 05:16 PM

Pinning your ass cheek in the upper outer quadrant is pain free.......even when done left handed.........we were all nervous at first, you'll be fine bro.

**cah027** · 08-08-2011, 06:41 PM

I just took my first injection tonight. Im taking Testosterone cypionate at 50mg per week. I used a 23 gauge needle to draw it but forgot to switch the need to the 25 they gave and just use the 23 to push. It wasn't bad at all. I just hope I feel a little better tomorrow at work and don't have to leave early again.. I thought I seen someone saying that most people do 100mg per week. Maybe he is just starting me off a little lower at first.. I dunno.. I will post my progress as it happens.

**zaggahamma** · 08-08-2011, 07:26 PM

50mg per week is probably the smallest injectable dose per week and equivalent to doing one packet of androgel or tube of testim 1%(absorbtion) transdermal gels...

from what i've seen the word MOST or NORMAL is hard to find in the health system..its like roulette actually...i hope the low dose helps and or gets you in the right direction bro

**cah027** · 08-12-2011, 09:40 AM

I can barely feel a difference so far. I have been able to struggle thru most days at work unlike last week but today was a ruff one. Had to come home. I hope the Dr ups my dose soon. I really need to get back to normal asap. I think my job is on the line and I might need to have energy to look for another one. My dr is hooking me up with a better amount that I can get from the pharmacy. He will change my script to a 10ml vial at a time instead of the 1ML they gave me the first time. Its going to be a long road ahead of me...

**zaggahamma** · 08-12-2011, 09:41 AM

well i hope its what you need bro...having to come home from work doesnt really sound like lowT alone, imo

but i hope i'm wrong

**cah027** · 08-19-2011, 03:07 PM

Got my last set of lab results in

PSA Ser QN .549ng/ml norm <=4.0
Prolactin SerPI 2.9ng/ml norm 2.0-15.0
FSH SerPl QN 7.8 Milliunits/ml norm 1.0-12.0
Sed Rate 2mm/hr norm 0-15
LH SerPl QN 1.6 Milliunits/ml norm 2.0-12.0

So low LH but normal FSH is kind of odd isn't it?

**Fred40** · 08-20-2011, 05:50 PM

Damn dude. I wish you the best of luck.

My initial test came back at 400 and my GP put me on Test Cyp injections. I had a ton of classic symptoms though.

First shot was 200mg and the rest will be 100mg EW with a check on the levels at 6 weeks.

**cah027** · 08-20-2011, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Fred40

Damn dude. I wish you the best of luck.

My initial test came back at 400 and my GP put me on Test Cyp injections. I had a ton of classic symptoms though.

First shot was 200mg and the rest will be 100mg EW with a check on the levels at 6 weeks.

Thanks man. Yea I think this guy isn't doing me any favors but I am slowly starting to feel a little better. I think this endo is very conservative. I am contemplating going to a different type of dr with all of my tests and seeing if I can get on a bigger dose.

Did you feel a lot better after that first big dose?

**Fred40** · 08-20-2011, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by cah027

Thanks man. Yea I think this guy isn't doing me any favors but I am slowly starting to feel a little better. I think this endo is very conservative. I am contemplating going to a different type of dr with all of my tests and seeing if I can get on a bigger dose.

Did you feel a lot better after that first big dose?

Not a huge difference no. Some minor things. Really have to give it a few weeks (3-6) before you will notice much (so I read). I'm a noob to all this but I'm learning fast.....these guys are very knowledgeable. I'll be taking my second shot on Monday. I'm really curious to see where I'm at with my next blood test.....especially my E2 levels and my Free T levels.

My GP looks to be great about the Test Cyp. but is not up to snuff on the AI's and HCG end of things. I'm hoping to bring him around on those.

**steroid.com 1** · 08-21-2011, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by cah027

Got my last set of lab results in

PSA Ser QN .549ng/ml norm <=4.0
Prolactin SerPI 2.9ng/ml norm 2.0-15.0
FSH SerPl QN 7.8 Milliunits/ml norm 1.0-12.0
Sed Rate 2mm/hr norm 0-15
LH SerPl QN 1.6 Milliunits/ml norm 2.0-12.0

So low LH but normal FSH is kind of odd isn't it?

LH is low because you started exogenous Test; it haults the production of LH due to HPT Axis shutdown.

Read the Important posts in this forum; you will see a research study on the effects and timing on TRT protocols.

Takes some time so be patient; it will work that I can almost guarantee 100% (assuming no other medical conditions).

**cah027** · 08-21-2011, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

LH is low because you started exogenous Test; it haults the production of LH due to HPT Axis shutdown.

Read the Important posts in this forum; you will see a research study on the effects and timing on TRT protocols.

Takes some time so be patient; it will work that I can almost guarantee 100% (assuming no other medical conditions).

Good idea. I do need to read up all I can. I don't always trust that Dr's will test everything that needs to be tested. Thanks for the info...

The labs I posted were taken before I started treatment. So Still not sure what it means as I don't know much.

**steroid.com 1** · 08-21-2011, 04:44 PM

Oh shit, I thought these labs were post. With such low LH indicates you are most likely secondary hypogonadal. Meaning your Hypothalamus is not releasing LHRH which in turn tells your Pituitary to release LH which in turn tell your testes to produce Testosterone among other things. Did your Doc explain the differences between Primary and Secondary Hypogonadism?

**cah027** · 08-21-2011, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

Oh shit, I thought these labs were post. With such low LH indicates you are most likely secondary hypogondal. Meaning your Hypothalimus is not releasing LHRH which in turn tells your Pituitary to release LH which in turn tell your testes to produce Testosterone among other things. Did your Doc explain the differences between Primary and Secondary Hypogondalism?

Nope. He hasn't explained much to me. I don't have a good feeling about this Dr, I might change to a different one that is more Low T specific in experience. He has me on such a low dose of 50mg per week. I just figured out today that the first two shots I did were more than the prescribed amount. I wasn't counting the fluid in the draw needle. So when I drew the plunger back to switch to the push needle I saw that it was closer to 80mg. So the first 2 weeks I did 80, this week (today) I did 50. I would think he would put me on a much higher dose than even 80mg considering how low everything is. I just started to notice the first sexual signs of this stuff. Now I am doing the 50mg, I wonder if I will start to head in the wrong direction. I have called the dr office and spoken with his nurses and they keep telling me the dose is fine and it will take 3 months before I feel better. IDK.. I just might switch to someone a little less conservative.

**steroid.com 1** · 08-21-2011, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by cah027

Nope. He hasn't explained much to me. I don't have a good feeling about this Dr, I might change to a different one that is more Low T specific in experience. He has me on such a low dose of 50mg per week. I just figured out today that the first two shots I did were more than the prescribed amount. I wasn't counting the fluid in the draw needle. So when I drew the plunger back to switch to the push needle I saw that it was closer to 80mg. So the first 2 weeks I did 80, this week (today) I did 50. I would think he would put me on a much higher dose than even 80mg considering how low everything is. I just started to notice the first sexual signs of this stuff. Now I am doing the 50mg, I wonder if I will start to head in the wrong direction. I have called the dr office and spoken with his nurses and they keep telling me the dose is fine and it will take 3 months before I feel better. IDK.. I just might switch to someone a little less conservative.

Not true, actually. The same amount is still in the needle barrel and the end of the syringe after you push the plunger all the way down. So you got the 50 and not 80 mg. If you want what is left in the needle barrel and syringe you need to pull back on the plunger when you are done, take the needle off and use a insulin pin to draw what left in the Test syringe out so you can inject it later SQ. It's not a lot, but it adds up over time. There are few members here who do that to get every last drop of their Texas tea

**cah027** · 08-22-2011, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

Not true, actually. The same amount is still in the needle barrel and the end of the syringe after you push the plunger all the way down. So you got the 50 and not 80 mg. If you want what is left in the needle barrel and syringe you need to pull back on the plunger when you are done, take the needle off and use a insulin pin to draw what left in the Test syringe out so you can inject it later SQ. It's not a lot, but it adds up over time. There are few members here who do that to get every last drop of their Texas tea

Aaah! So I probably gave myself a low dose this week because I drew it back with the fluid starting at the 0 mark up to 50mg, then pushed it into the needle which made it go to about 20mg so I am probably low this week.. That dose make sense that it would stay in the needle. I didn't think of that..

Thanks again for the info.. I still have a lot to learn..

I might hold off until this first 3 months are up and see where my levels are to change dr's but I still think 50mg is a bit low.

**cah027** · 08-27-2011, 04:47 PM

I spoke with a "Low T expert" dr and he said the 50mg dose was low as well and he would give me between 100 and 120 mg per 10 days. I might switch but this other dr suggested waiting a little while and asking the current dr to up the dose if I don't feel better after 2 or 3 months. I am feeling better but very just a small amount. I mowed my lawn today and it took every ounce of energy to do it. I felt horrible afterword. Not good.

Now starting today. I am having pains in my nuggets. Is this normal? What does that mean?

**steroid.com 1** · 08-27-2011, 05:01 PM

Your testicles are starting to atrophy. Your in HPTA shutdown so your pituitary gland has halted production of LH. Your testicles need LH to function and do what they are supposed to do. That is why you see in the forum here time and time again that men on a TRT regime need HCG which is a bio identical form of LH - meaning it will do the exact same thing as LH and prevent your testicles from shutting down and begin to atrophy.

This state will only get worse and not better.

Your Doc should have explained that to you.

**cah027** · 08-27-2011, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

Your testicles are starting to atrophy. Your in HPTA shutdown so your pituitary gland has halted production of LH. Your testicles need LH to function and do what they are supposed to do. That is why you see in the forum here time and time again that men on a TRT regime need HCG which is a bio identical form of LH - meaning it will do the exact same thing as LH and prevent your testicles from shutting down and begin to atrophy.

This state will only get worse and not better.

Your Doc should have explained that to you.

Im thinking I need a new dr. This guy hasn't explained anything to me. I have gotten 5x the info from you. Thanks again. I am going to start making some calls come monday morning.

**Fred40** · 08-27-2011, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by cah027

I have gotten 5x the info from you. Thanks again.

Crazy but true! I've learned WAY more here than I've learned from my GP.

**zaggahamma** · 08-28-2011, 06:48 AM

x2=10 here

wait maybe thats 12

**cah027** · 09-01-2011, 06:30 PM

Dr says there is nothing he can do about my ball pain . Says it has nothing to do with the trt and that its from the condition that caused the low t in the first place. So I just have to suffer.

**Fred40** · 09-01-2011, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by cah027

Dr says there is nothing he can do about my ball pain . Says it has nothing to do with the trt and that its from the condition that caused the low t in the first place. So I just have to suffer.

That's kind of scary!

HCG should take care of that and more.

**cah027** · 09-07-2011, 08:29 PM

Seen the endo today to follow up on the pain in my pills and now the new pain in the nips. My balls feel a lot better this week, so Im not too worried about that but the nips are really tender. Doc says if they get worse or don't get better after awhile that he will put me on nolvadex .

Also he said he wants to get me up around 700 to 800. He is going to test me at the 2 months mark and adjust my dose if needed to get me where he wants me. I was really happy to hear that he wants me in that range. I would have been happy with 600 to 650 because I don't think I've ever been near that. I am really starting to feel better while I am not active. I am 5 shots or 5 weeks in right now. I tried to do some light cardio and couldn't do much. I've been doing some light lifting but not a full workout. I really want to get back to it. At least now, my dr is giving me the info I need to feel that I am on the right track.

oh, when I was hurtin down below, my sack cinched up real tight and made them look 10 yrs old again. Now this week, they are hanging like they use to. Is that normal? I would have thought it would have gotten worse instead of better.

**cah027** · 11-06-2011, 11:05 AM

Hi everyone. Long time no post. Finally after 3 months I went to the endo and he increased my dose from 50mg to 100mg per week. I got two tests done 2 months in.One at the end of the week and one at the beginning. I get my shots on Sundays. At the beginning I was 498 at the end I was 394. Needless to say, this didn't make me feel like I should. I just took my first shot at 100mg. I am wondering if I will feel any difference this week or will it take a few weeks before I notice. Dr says it will take a month to get my level to optimal. I am just glad I am finally on an effective dose. Its been a long year.

**SEOINAGE** · 11-06-2011, 09:39 PM

How is work doing? getting any better? Thanks for posting everything you have so far, I feel like I need to learn a lot more as I might be starting treatment unless something else is possible. Curious if you are making progress, but with your levels still not that high, I am glad he upped your dose, so maybe things will start to improve if they haven't, keep us posted cause I am also curious how long it will take to notice changes as far as well being etc, and ability to focus.

**HRTstudent** · 11-06-2011, 10:00 PM

Well it's good to see you felt subjectively better, although not great yet you admitted. You look to be doing much better but seem to be a bit impatient. In the grand scheme of getting your life significantly better, a month or 2 really is not much. As much as most people want to fix it yesterday, a controlled approach will probably get you optimal, and with less transition "pain," than rushing into things.

As far as how long your new dose should effect you, I don't think anyone knows for certain but I would imagine 1-3 weeks to notice something. But the bigger milestone will be how you feel in 1 to 2 months.

And it's something to keep in mind, there are diminishing returns on T levels. You don't have to look far to read about people feeling better at a T level of 600 than 900, etc.

**cah027** · 11-07-2011, 05:34 AM

@ hrt. Yes I have gotten a bit impatient with all of this. I really waited to long in the beginning to see my GP in the first place, which is my fault. I had been feeling bad since the beginning of the year. I also have a slew of other health issues that I use to control with diet and exercise but with this thrown on the pile of issues it made things worse. Also, working out has been my coping mechanisms. I have been trying to workout as much as I can but I am unable to do much, unless I am having a really good day. It is weird because I sometimes will have one day were I feel incredibly good. I think my levels spike, probably to around the 600 mark. Which makes me wonder about what you said about diminishing returns. If that happens then I may need a dose somewhere in the 75-80mg range maybe. I do not want to get higher than optimal. I have read that too high can be just as bad as too low. We will see. I will do whatever my endo says. I wasn't so sure about his methods at first but now I think he is doing things right. I trust he will make the right adjustments. Oh and I bet you are right about the controlled approach. I was having some transition pain down below and in my chest area. I didn't think of that but It probably would have been a lot worse had I not started at the lower dose. Very good point!

@Seoinage.. I am doing better with work. Not missing days and able to walk more. I think in a couple of weeks I will be able to return to my usual duties which include a lot of walking. Mental focus is getting better but not "there" yet. On the days I feel "spiked" or good, my mental focus is very sharp. It almost feels like a fog has been lifted in my mind and I feel no anxiety. I think with the right dose I will feel that way everyday (I hope). I will let you know how I feel on this new dose. Have you been tested?

**SEOINAGE** · 11-07-2011, 07:57 AM

Had it tested during the morning hours and was 418, I know it isnt 350 or even 300s but it isn't far off. Went to an endo and he is doing more tests, I might have thyroid and or other issues. Its good to hear you are having some good days. It is interesting how you mention the fog, I haven't had anxiety issues for a number of years, but still if I could describe many days, they would be foggy, as in I don't feel fully aware of surroundings and although i feel somewhat intelligent I don't feel up to par with basic things, interesting to hear it has helped your mental focus. I'm only 30 years old, but I would love to feel like i am 25 again, or even better like when i was 20-21 which was the best I ever felt in my life.

**cah027** · 11-07-2011, 05:00 PM

418 is not good for a 30 year old. Hopefully your dr will treat you at that number. I have read a lot of Dr's won't treat you unless you are under the "normal range" like below 300. My first test with my GP was 354 and my endo wasn't going to treat me at first but he did a follow up test and it had dropped to 160, so he started treatment. I am not sure that anxiety is a common symptom but I know in general I am an anxious person, but I usually cope with it just fine.When I am feeling weak and sick it really brings it out. Yes the fog does make it feel like not all of the wheels are turning at times. Good luck with your treatment. Keep us updated..

**steroid.com 1** · 11-07-2011, 07:36 PM

cah027 - Can you please post your labs from your most recent BW?

Are you presenting any symptoms of high E2? Nips still sensitive? Get cold easily? Feel like crap? There are a ton of other symptoms... Keep this is mind; if you are converting Test to E2 through increased levels of the aromatase enzyme all that test you are injecting will do you little to no good. That's one principle reason why some guys complain they don't feel the affects of thier TRT protocol; it's converting to E2.

How are your testicles? You are in HPTA shutdown so they won't get any better...only worse.

It may take a month to get your levels up.

Are you self injecting? If so, I'd recommend splitting your dose into two weekly injections. This will help a little with E2 control and level your peaks and valleys; some men feel better with two injections per week instead of one.

**cah027** · 11-07-2011, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

cah027 - Can you please post your labs from your most recent BW?

Are you presenting any symptoms of high E2? Nips still sensitive? Get cold easily? Feel like crap? There are a ton of other symptoms... Keep this is mind; if you are converting Test to E2 through increased levels of the aromatase enzyme all that test you are injecting will do you little to no good. That's one principle reason why some guys complain they don't feel the affects of thier TRT protocol; it's converting to E2.

How are your testicles? You are in HPTA shutdown so they won't get any better...only worse.

It may take a month to get your levels up.

Are you self injecting? If so, I'd recommend splitting your dose into two weekly injections. This will help a little with E2 control and level your peaks and valleys; some men feel better with two injections per week instead of one.

My nipple don't burn as much as they use to after each injection but they still do a little and they are a little sensitive. The dr has me scheduled for another test in 3 months, for estradiol and total test. But thats a long way out. I may need to ask for it sooner. Balls don't really hurt anymore. They are a little tender at times but nothing major. I wonder if I should consider take an anti estrogen supplement? I do get cold more often then I use to.. I do feel like crap most of the time..but I usually feel almost good to good in the middle of the week.

My last labs were as follows:

One day after shot (Monday):
Test SerPI (total testosterone ) 498 ng/dL
Test Free SerPI 106 pg/mL

5 days after shot (Friday)
Test SerPI (total testosterone) 394 ng/dL
Test Free SerPI 83 pg/mL

That is all he tested. This was about a month ago. I was on 50mg per week..

I might do the split dosing schedule. I think I will wait a few weeks and see if I feel better as is with the new dose once a week. So if I split the dose, I wonder if I can get more syringes from the pharmacy without a script? I think I might do Sunday and Thursday.

**steroid.com 1** · 11-07-2011, 08:25 PM

Try Monday morning then Thursday night. 50 mg per injection.

Buy supplies online...cheaper.

You need to get your E2 tested soon...on your own if you have to. Trust me...

**cah027** · 11-08-2011, 06:33 PM

I have asked two different labs if I can get E2 tested without a dr order and they won't. I will see if the Dr will do it this friday. I have to get other labs done anyway.

I actually felt a little worse today.

Does anyone know of a website were I can get some aremidex or something else without a script?

**zaggahamma** · 11-09-2011, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by cah027

I have asked two different labs if I can get E2 tested without a dr order and they won't. I will see if the Dr will do it this friday. I have to get other labs done anyway.

I actually felt a little worse today.

Does anyone know of a website were I can get some aremidex or something else without a script?

WHY YES I DO

http://www.directlabs.com/

http://www.privatemdlabs.com/

http://www.anylabtestnow.com/

**cah027** · 11-09-2011, 05:34 AM

Thanks jpkman.. This really helps. I will probably go with the Privatemdlabs.com. Which test should I get. Just the estradiol one or one of the other estrogen tests? Also, These must be urin test no?

I am calling my Dr today to see if I can get them to test for it soon. If they won't I will go the online route.

Now I just need something to lower it.. I know that has to be most of my problem. I shouldn't feel worse for 2 days after my shot...

gdevine, I took your advice and ordered some supply online. I have 100 of everthing coming my way. I will start splitting my dose next week. I will have to go back to one big shot for my tests in a few months because the dr wants a tests on monday and friday again.

My chest is really hurting today.. I think I might be sprouting breasts. lol well maybe not that bad yet but my nips are swollen up to twice the size already... On a positive side, Overall I think I feel a little better this morning.

Thanks again guys.

**zaggahamma** · 11-09-2011, 05:50 AM

my pleasure

estradiol is the best guage

and no i believe its bloodwork bro...read the sites thoroughly though

i thought you had a decent doctor? sorry, i only skimmed the last few posts before you asked about where you can get bloodwork....some of those posts looked like novels to me

**cah027** · 11-10-2011, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

my pleasure

estradiol is the best guage

and no i believe its bloodwork bro...read the sites thoroughly though

i thought you had a decent doctor? sorry, i only skimmed the last few posts before you asked about where you can get bloodwork....some of those posts looked like novels to me

I called the dr and asked for an estradiol test sooner than later so he ordered labs for my total test, free test and estradiol in 3 weeks. So I just have to deal with the estrogen symptoms for a little while longer.

I was frustrated and impatient at first with this dr but he seems to be coming around and now seems to be working for me.

Today I started off feeling crappy but after 5pm I started feeling pretty good. I actually got a fast workout tonight.

**cah027** · 12-01-2011, 06:19 PM

I got my blood drawn this past Monday. This is one day after my 4th shot @ 100mg. Here are the results:

Estradoil: 60 Normal range 0-50 (asked the dr to give me a script for this. Hope its high enough for him to justify one. I hate the symptoms)

Total Testosterone 982 Normal range 300-1080

Free Testosterone 218 Normal range 47-244

Sex hormone 30 Normal range 11-80 What is sex hormone anyway?

I am feeling a whole lot better. I've been working out for the past 3 weeks and already I've went down 2 notches on my belt and gained 3 to 5 lbs of lean weight. I think I am gaining most of it in my legs. I've been doing about 5 hours of elliptical cardio per week along with some lite lifting.

I figured out why I was feeling so much worse than this low t stuff should have caused. I am type 2 diabetic and I've always controlled it with diet and exercise. Since all of this began I had long periods of time where I couldn't workout. Started metering my sugar again and wouldn't you know it. It was spiking all the way up to 191 at times. I feel twice as bad when this happens. Also being diabetic make me tend to have high blood pressure when I am not doing a lot of cardio. Cholesterol is high as well. All party favors of good ol diabetes.. Now I'm on a statin for cholesterol. Everything is really starting to come together!

**Brohim** · 12-01-2011, 07:55 PM

Your T is finally in range. Did you break up the shots 50mg and 50mg? You estrogen is high you need it to be 25-30 not 60. You need some liquidex you will feel better with it. Also get some HCG and shoot it 250iu twice per week. It will help w/ your balls and increase your sense of well being.

Sorry but your have a shitty doctor he is slow as molasses. 50mg he should have started you with 80mg to start and not monitoring E2 is stupid as well. He doesn't even know that going on hormone will make your testicles atrophy. He is retarded. If I were you I would take control of my life and not rely on the doc. Demand your E2 is at 30 and get some HCG for your man jewel'sa and continue with diet and workout.

Your body produces excess cholesterol because it is trying to manufactor T which it know's is low. chol. is like firemen trying to put out a fire. The fire is low T, T is made from cholesterol. So once your T levels even out and your diet is good (eat plenty of Omega 3 fats like flax oil or cod liver oil) you should be able to go off all meds!

**cah027** · 12-01-2011, 09:12 PM

I agree. I wish he would get me on some meds for the e2. Actually my balls haven't really been hurting much lately. They do on occasion but not much after the first 6 weeks or so. If I get on HCG wouldn't that negate the need to inject test ? Wouldn't that just make my balls produce them on their own?

I haven't started splitting the dose yet. I wanted to wait until I got these lab results back. Maybe the endo will give me something for it. If he doesn't I will split. I might split anyway..