Blood test...

[jamotech]

First time Ive had bloodwork for test, looks like I have high E. Was hoping I had something out of whack, my symptoms (no sleep, moody, gaining muscle real slow)match it, so glad to know its probably not from something else because ive already treid alot(nutrition mostly) And I know when I did test before I felt great, so im hoping getting my levels under control will help my symptoms. Test is on the low range, and maybe SHBG is on the high range? Pretty new to getting bloodwork so what do you guys think?

Total Test 544
TSH 3.380
PSA .8
Estrogen 116
SHBG 36.5

[GotNoBlueMilk]

Are you working with a doc? If so, ask doc for a prescription for anastrozol.

What is your body fat? Higher bf% means more conversion of free test to estrogen. Get your body fat % down.

You didn't post Free Test numbers. Only the free test is converted to estrogen. If your free test is high, that is better for you but means more estrogen too.

If you are having high estrogen issues, you would naturally have a higher SHBG level. This is one of your body's ways of lowering estrogen.

[steroid.com 1]

Need ranges....

Total Test 544
Appears mid range...

TSH 3.380
TSH is off the charts and why you feel like you do. Without question Hypothyroidism. Anything over 2 suggests a problem. Do you have T4, T3 or Rt3 panels? You need to have this diagnosed and get under control.

PSA .8
Estrogen 116
Range???

SHBG 36.5[/QUOTE]
Range???

Post entire blood-work with ranges. Get your Thyroid checked ASAP and don't let them tell you it's in a normal range...it's not!

[jamotech]

working with a doc, they did not order a free test, my body fat is on the low side. I dont know the exact percent but im naturally thin and been eating pretty good for the past year.


Ah the ranges, thanks


test serum 544 249-836
tsh 3.380 .450-4.500
PSA .8 .0-4.0
Estrogen 116 40-115
SHBG 36.5 14.5-48.4

[jamotech]

Need ranges....

Total Test 544
Appears mid range...

TSH 3.380
TSH is off the charts and why you feel like you do. Without question Hypothyroidism. Anything over 2 suggests a problem. Do you have T4, T3 or Rt3 panels? You need to have this diagnosed and get under control.

PSA .8
Estrogen 116
Range???

SHBG 36.5

[B[/B]

Post entire blood-work with ranges. Get your Thyroid checked ASAP and don't let them tell you it's in a normal range...it's not![/QUOTE]

My regular PC has tested me for it twice in the past 2 years and has always said its normal, and when I just got a physical from a different doc he also asked me if I had my thyroid checked. So I asked him why he asked, because my pc has checked me for it too but never mentioned exactly why. He said as you, that would explain your symptoms. But from the test it looks in range? no, dont have the other thyroid ranges, and as far as the rest of it there is a lot and I cant seem to cut and paste it off adobe

[steroid.com 1]

Your Thyroid is under performing. Many of the symptoms of low Testosterone are the same for Hypothyroidism. You need to know why this is happening and get it corrected. You will feel like a new man when you do and get it corrected.

You can't go by lab ranges for Thyroid.

As stated, anything over 2 suggests a problem. Anything over 3 is a problem. Anything over 4 and you're in trouble.

Get help.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

test serum 544 249-836
tsh 3.380 .450-4.500
PSA .8 .0-4.0
Estrogen 116 40-115
SHBG 36.5 14.5-48.4

This is the female range. You should have gotten sensative/ultrasensative E test (My quest test lists it as ultasensative). You have higher Estrogen than a woman!

Getting E2 down will help you a lot. I can't comment on thyroid stuff since I have no thyroid issue and never learned anything about that.

[jamotech]

I will, thanks GD!!

[jamotech]

This is the female range. You should have gotten sensative/ultrasensative E test (My quest test lists it as ultasensative). You have higher Estrogen than a woman!

Getting E2 down will help you a lot. I can't comment on thyroid stuff since I have no thyroid issue and never learned anything about that.

Thanks bro, I have been feeling like a bitch!!

[tcat3107]

I am on TRT and looking to increase my total and free testosterone to about 900ng/ml and 25pg/ml. I take 100mg of test. cyp. IM every week and HCG 25 IU/4days SQ and 0.25 mg of Arimidex SL every other day. When is the appropriate time to have my levels checked in my cycle to have the best results?

[steroid.com 1]

I am on TRT and looking to increase my total and free testosterone to about 900ng/ml and 25pg/ml. I take 100mg of test. cyp. IM every week and HCG 25 IU/4days SQ and 0.25 mg of Arimidex SL every other day. When is the appropriate time to have my levels checked in my cycle to have the best results?

You're hijacking the OP's thread. Start you own...

[SaTyR]

Jamo, your test in really in the mid-range, I have a test amount of 300 - 333 so that's considered pretty low.

[jamotech]

The lab results had a note below the total t results... said that by october 17 the normal ranges would change from 500 - 1168, I must of mixed them up with the ranges I typed above. I was thinking I was only 40 above the low range. So I will be in the low range by october? Has new testing raised the normal range? Little confused about the differecnes in ranges.

Ill be talking to the doc, hopefully tomorrow, about my results.

[jamotech]

Looks like ill be on 100 mg of test every 7 days, not sure of the hcg dose, arimidex is 2mg a week, or maybe .5 eod I dont remember there was a lot of info. But I do remember he said if it was too much I can do .5mg 3x a week, either way Ill know when I get it... seems like a higher dose of arimidex to get my E2 down. I asked the hrt doc how he felt about my TSH, said since I didnt have my t3 and t4 he couldnt tell. The soonest I can get to my primary is about 2 weeks away. Found out my mother takes meds for hypothyroidism, but she didnt start taking them till menopause. Her mother had her thyroid removed at age 40 because of a growth. So, I called the doc and told them I wanted my thyroid checked because of family history, guess we really cant tell much until I have t3 and t4 levels. I have had it checked in the past 3 years and its been ok.

Looks like I should be receiving my protocoll soon, hopefully!

I have a question, will being on a test/hcg/adex alter thyroid levels? I will have hopefully been on the therapy for a week by the time I go to my primary to get tested, and get some propecia ive been under stress and already starting to thin.

[steroid.com 1]

Nice follow-up.

Let us know your protocol.

Good to see you're looking into your high TSH. Something is amiss.

To answer your question; No. Your Thyroid controls a lot of other things but is not nearly involved with the androgenic hormones you are replacing; that's primarily your hypothalamus and pituitary gland. In fact, TSH is produced by your pituitary gland, it's signaling your Thyroid to produce more thyroxine (T4) which converts to T3 via a loss of an Iodine molecule.

[jamotech]

Thanks for the answer GD

100mg test a week to start, im guessing I will be tested again to see if we can up the dose slightly, my e2 is so high it seems like the right direction, but id like to be operating at the high level

HCG , the bottle says 1000iu IM once a week, but I was given insulin needles with it so im gonna start with 250iu 3x a week sub Q

1mg arimidex 3x a week, my e2 is up there so I guess thats where the low test/high adex dosing comes in.

Doc said we will do this for a few weeks then re-evaluate. Time to get dialed in! Just got everything tonight, I swear since I took the adex 1mg tab I feel like ive been on a happy pill?!

[steroid.com 1]

Thanks for the answer GD

100mg test a week to start, im guessing I will be tested again to see if we can up the dose slightly, my e2 is so high it seems like the right direction, but id like to be operating at the high level

HCG , the bottle says 1000iu IM once a week, but I was given insulin needles with it so im gonna start with 250iu 3x a week sub Q

1mg arimidex 3x a week, my e2 is up there so I guess thats where the low test/high adex dosing comes in.

Doc said we will do this for a few weeks then re-evaluate. Time to get dialed in! Just got everything tonight, I swear since I took the adex 1mg tab I feel like ive been on a happy pill?!

This is EXCELLENT! You are in the right care

Yes, when your E2 comes down to the optimal levels not only will you feel a tremendous difference but all your other hormones will do what they are supposed to do.

Keep us updated on your progress IN THIS THREAD jamotech.

Good news is always nice to see here.

[Fred40]

T
1mg arimidex 3x a week, my e2 is up there so I guess thats where the low test/high adex dosing comes in.

I'm reading this as 3mg/week. That's got to be too much at your levels of Test Cyp (100mg/week).

I would think 1mg/week (broken up into three or four doses) would be more like it.

Aslo......we don't really know where exactly your E2 levels are (although we can probably assume high). Since you did not get the sensitive male assay the range and numbers you did get are not very helpful. Here.....Dr. Crisler can put it better than I - "Unless you specify a ‘sensitive’ assay for your male patients, the lab will default to the standard estradiol designed for females, which is useless for our purposes here. I have run the standard assay and the sensitive assay concurrently on a number of my patients, and the two results may be as night and day. "

[steroid.com 1]

I'm reading this as 3mg/week. That's got to be too much at your levels of Test Cyp (100mg/week).

I would think 1mg/week (broken up into three or four doses) would be more like it.

Aslo......we don't really know where exactly your E2 levels are (although we can probably assume high). Since you did not get the sensitive male assay the range and numbers you did get are not very helpful. Here.....Dr. Crisler can put it better than I - "Unless you specify a ‘sensitive’ assay for your male patients, the lab will default to the standard estradiol designed for females, which is useless for our purposes here. I have run the standard assay and the sensitive assay concurrently on a number of my patients, and the two results may be as night and day. "

You're right Fred, he hasn't posted his E2 levels so the 3 mg / wk of AI seems excessive on the surface...but it appears he's got the right Doctor. The protocol looks right if he estrogen dominant right now. Front load to get it down quick then level off. Pretty typical to be honest.

I'd like to see the balance of his panels as well...but it appears he's in good hands which is all good.

BTW, a Doc prescribing this protocol appears to have his stuff together; I'd be surprised if his E2 assay wasn't sensitive.

[jamotech]

Been doing a lot of research, starting to understand more what people are talking about. Never thought about blood work when planning cycles in the past!!No E2 assay was not done, so I just have the total (116)with the womans
range.
The dr said if I started getting hot flashes to cut it to .5 3x a week. I think I have, after my second 1mg dose I noticed it and after my third. So now ill do the half tab. Ive decided to tweak the rest of the protocol, mostly for half life times.

100 mg test cyp E5d
.5 arimidex every 2 1/2 days (in the morning on the day before test shot, at night the day after... this also works out to 3x a week, almost)
250iu HCG the day before test shot, seems like the boys were producing ok before so im looking just to counteract the introduction of the test.

Basically ive taken the recomendations of the doctor, consultant, and my own research and made what I think is the best for now. They told me I can have my levels checked in 12 weeks, ill go on my own in 5-6 weeks. I want to get my E down and wasnt expecting to get hot flashes so soon, hopefully I knocked it down a bit froantloading it for a week. If it goes back up ill try a higher dose again. Going tomorrow to my regular pc for thyroid test, and propecia.

[jamotech]

BTW, a Doc prescribing this protocol appears to have his stuff together; I'd be surprised if his E2 assay wasn't sensitive.

Id be surprised too, Im hoping that my plannig of the adex around the test shot makes better use of the adex, I know ive upped the test slightly (E5d instead of E7d) and that dosent help E go down but its more for half life and keeping things consistent. I can always try .5 every 2 days if needed., it just wouldnt be focused around the test shot. And also less HCG should help, the doc never mentioned the hcg, the consultant said 250 the day after, Crisler says 250 day 1 and 2 before a WEEKLY shot. I was gonna do 250 3 times a week based on initial research, but that was before extensive research. More people seem happier doing it before the test than after.

[jamotech]

Got TSH done again, came back at 2.5, last time it was 3.38. Taking 50mg of zinc now.

[steroid.com 1]

Got TSH done again, came back at 2.5, last time it was 3.38. Taking 50mg of zinc now.

TSh is in a better range but still not optimum. Zinc would have little to do with this but iodine (ie Kelp) and selenium intake would.

Remember, assays are a "snap shot" in time so there could be a number of reasons it was elevated the last BW.

Have you added any new supplements, added iodized salt to your diet...?

How are you feeling these days?

[jamotech]

Thanks GD!
Ill add the selenium and kelp, I always use iodized salt, but I only use it in the water when cooking pasta I dont add salt to any foods. I had a feeling my doc was only gonna do a TSH, not the full thyroid panel, I may just have it done on my own... probably when I get all my BW after 6 weeks.

Its hard to tell how im feeling, I'm on another course of antibiotics now (clarithromycin) I have asthma and prone to respiratory infections and this one's been a bugger. I was feeling a little down before I started trt and figured it was just a cold, but for the past 3 weeks it just got worse. So, its hard to really gauge the effects of the trt.

The biggest difference I do notice has been the mood swings, they are pretty much gone. I feel extremely emotionally stable. I think I have the arimidex dose just right, I missed a dose by about 12 hours last week, I got the first mood swing ive had since starting the arimidex, then realized I forgot to take it. Also as of a few days ago my appetite has sky rocketed. Libido is up, I didnt think it was really down before until I realized how much its up now Back pain has diminished slightly, its starting to help physical therapy areas that had really plateaued (or were over-trained), mostly my left shoulder and thoracic support muscles. It was so bad before any minor improvement is very noticeable.

As far as other supplements, I take a good multi, E, D, C, milk thistle. I was taking flax seed oil pills, but found out they can raise estrogen so I stopped those. I was taking it for the omegas, I think ill switch to krill oil. Recently added the zinc, ill add the selenium and kelp, also gonna add some dhea. I think I could use it as me getting out of bed in the morning has not improved.

Ill update again once this lung bug is gone!! I have a feeling ill feel like a million bucks!

[jamotech]

still recovering from surgery, the antibiotics I was taking for the respitory infection were helping the infected pilonidal sinus I had on my tailbone. Its hurt for years just thought it was scar tissue... not an infected sinus thing! So still not feeling like a million bucks, but soon! Glad I didnt get my follow up bw before I discovered the pilonidal, as im very curious to see my tsh levels after ive healed. Did some research on this pilonidal sinus, turns out it can be asymptomatic, im sure this has been putting a tax on my whole system for years.

Felt 100% healthy before surgery, the surgery day was on the 6th day after my last 100mg cyp shot, and 5 days after my .5mg ai and hcg shot. Resumed my test shot the day after surgery and back on protocol.
100mg cyp E5D
.5 arimidex every 2.5 days
250iu hcg with arimidex dose

[Brohim]

Sounds like you found the right doc. Was this your GP doc or endo or wht? Hope you recovery quickly

[jamotech]

90% healed, going back to the gym next week. It really sucked for the first 3 weeks, then healing has been fairly quick. It was left open but they marsupialized it, so its not going to be the usual 8 week recovery, more like 6. Glad to be done with that!

Ill update as soon as I get follow up blood work which is overdue. Its only been a couple weeks that ive started feeling good again since the surgery and infections preceding, feeling a lot healthier with the trt.

[jamotech]

Getting blood work tomorrow, should have this thread finally updated by tuesday. Got a male hormone panel from privatemdlabs, dosent have everything id like to test, but its all I can afford for now.

[jamotech]

cbc and cmp all in range except for:
rbc 5.96 4.1-5.6
hemoglobin 17.5 12.5-17.0
hematocrit 51.6 36-50

total chol 154 100-199
triglycerides 145 0-149
hdl 35 LOW >39
vldl chol cal 29 5-40
ldl chol calc 90 0-99

Thyroid panel
tsh 2.330 .45-4.5
T4 8.5 4.5-12
T3 uptake 32% 24-39
Free thyroxine index 2.7 1.2-4.9

Test Serum 859 348-1197
test, free 29.72 5-21
% free test 3.46 1.5-4.2

PSA 1.0 0-4.0

IGF-1 266 115-307

Estradoil, sensitive 6 3-70

So, the rbc, hemoglobin, and hematocrit levels, will giving blood help those?

Raising HDL, ive slacked a lot on taking my krill oil, seems like I need to add some good fat. I also read somewhere 1-2 drinks a day can help this. I only drink socially if that. Id take a drink a day if it would help.

Estradiol, I have been suspect of low E, so I based the test on when I felt my e would be the lowest, about 20 hours after taking .5 adex midweek. Ive sent the results to my doc, im guessing he will have me lower the adex dose to .5mg twice a week. Or raise my test dose!! Im sure he will recommend lowering the ai dose.

Ive changed my protocoll a few times over the past 4 months, E5D and one big dose of ai the day after didnt work for me (estrogen roller coaster, actually got itchy nips for a week). Nor did E5D with split ai dose work well either. For the past 3 weeks ive done 50-60 mg test twice a week, with .5mg adex 3 times a week, 250iu hcg 2x a week, per docs order. I say 50-60 mg of test, because its hard to dose accurate with the crap needles I have, just got terumo's in tonight, so much easier to read than nipro. No more changing protocoll for me until next blood work, except for the ai dose. Ive learned the high and low E symptoms fairly well, I hope to be dialed in within the year! Will get cortisol, dhea, and pregnolone next time.

[jamotech]

Wow, figured I would have got at least one comment by now?

[BigBadWolf]

Wow, figured I would have got at least one comment by now?

First!!! Yea

[bass]

yes give blood ASAP to lower your RBC and Hemo.

i had difficulty drawing 60 mgs in the 3 ml syringe, so i switched to 1ml syringe and alternate between SQ and IM injections depending on my mood.

take omega 3 or eat dark chocolate and some oats if you can depending on your diet to improve your HDL.

i usually take 0.5 mg AI 12-24 hours after my shot and it seems to be working good for me. but first dial in your test dose so you are consistent, get 1 ml syringes they are much easier to draw accurately and inject.

your test level is great! what was you PSA in the last test?

[jamotech]

Nice Honkey!
Bass,
I am giving blood on tuesday, I know giving blood will help the hematocrit, wasnt sure if hemoglobin and rbc will be helped by giving but it makes sense that it would.

I have been forgetting to take my krill oil pills, was only taking one here and there, ill consistently take two per day now. Trying to get more monounsaturated fats in me also.

I did some research on the 1ml syringe, they seem hard to find, so i just got easier to read 3ml's. can you pm me where you got yours?

I recently switched to taking my ai 12hrs after a shot vs my original schedule of 24hrs after. i think ill try 24 hrs again, seemed like I felt better then.

PSA was .8 last time, I had a digital prostate exam yesterday, doc said it was perfect!

[Mario L]

We have the near same tsh levels pre trt and during trt. Are you on a thyroid med? I'm not. I have read that the tsh would go down with a trt protocol.

[jamotech]

We have the near same tsh levels pre trt and during trt. Are you on a thyroid med? I'm not. I have read that the tsh would go down with a trt protocol.

No thyroid meds, my TSH has gone down from 3.380(before trt) to now 2.330, so it seems to be true Mario that TSH would lower under a trt protocol. So your TSH went from about 3 to 2 also?...id like to see mine under 2. I have been taking kelp since my last TSH test to help lower it, and it made no difference. The numbers were almost identical.

[Mario L]

I'm hoping it goes to under 2 as well. I'll see in about 3 weeks. I'm real hesitant on adding a thyroid med.

[jamotech]

Hopefully it does!

It seems to be a varied opinion among doctors, when my pc got my last result (2.3), dismissed it as normal, nor did my hrt doc seem concerned with my pretrt level of 3.3. They are both good doctors, but my research shows that some that specialize in hormones are saying anything above 2 is something to look at.

Theres a lot to it, clinical and subclinical hypothyroidism. Subclinical meaning high tsh, but the individual t ranges are normal, and it may not be bad enough where thyroid meds would even help. I would like to see a doc that thinks if its not under 2 theres something to look... at and see what his/her opinion is. 2.3 is pretty close to 2, so no matter what anyone says I wont be taking thyroid meds until my ranges were way off. Gotta take the hand your dealt, sometimes. Stress can raise your TSH!

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hyp...-and-diagnosis

[jamotech]

WBC 8.8 4.0-10.5
RBC 5.64 4.1-5.6 High
Hemo 16.7 12.5-17
hematocrit 48.3 36-50

BUN 1.03 .76-1.27
creatinine serum 1.03 .76 1.27
egfr 94 >59
bun creatine ratio 14 8-19
albium, serum 4.5 3.5 5.5
bilirubin, total .6 0-1.2
APT 71 25-150
AST 26 0-40
ALT 41 0-55

chol, total 153 100-199
tri 65 0-149
hdl 38 >39 Low
vldl 13 5-40
ldl 102 0-99 High

TSH 1.620 .45-4.5
T4 9 4.5-12
T3 uptake 36 24-39
Free Thyroxine 3.2 1.2-4.9

total test >1500 348-1197
Free >84.75 5.0-21
%free 5.65 1.5-4.2

PSA .8 0-4
Igf-1 227 115-307
E2 sensitive 53 3-70

protocol
125mg test 2x week
.25 arimidex 2x week
HCG 250iu EOD

will start by increasing ariimidex by .25 a week, get it down to the 40's. \
Glad to see the TSH down, liver and kidney numbers are good.
I was trying to bring up that HDL. It may take more time to bring that up.
PSA is the same as before I started trt. All the other cbc and cmp numbers were within range.

Based on the way I feel I didnt think my E2 would be that high, but ill bring it down slowly as crashing it sucks. I increased my HCG dose to 250iu EOD as I was having some shrinkage on my right nut, started going north. EOD has seem to help, hanging now, but im sure thats the main reason my E2 is a little high because I increased the HCG.

Overall im happy with my numbers, this blast started from me trying to rebound my E2, kept increasing test and lowering ai until I felt better. Really trying to find a ratio so I can take some guess work out of figuring out how much ai to take according to the test dose.

[kelkel]

Looks like your getting there Jamo. Feel ok with your test levels where they are? Curious if you've been giving blood lately?

[jamotech]

Looks like your getting there Jamo. Feel ok with your test levels where they are? Curious if you've been giving blood lately?

I do, although I dont plan on being at these levels for much longer. Ill go back to the 120mg a week in a month or so, the higher levels have helped with some physical therapy areas that hadnt been responding on the 120mg a week.
I forgot to mention that I have given blood twice since my last draw. I gave blood 6 days before this BW was taken.