Last ditch effort to salvage my debiliated body using

[reptiles]

I thought I crafted a (long) great first introductory post but I used too many forbidden words; forum rejected many posting attempts.

In a nutshell... I'm in horrible shape for a 52 year old after injury... immobility ---> obesity. Can't walk more than 50 feet with walker. Was 5'11" blew out lumbar discs, now 5'9" 360 pounds.

Had blood tests done. The male T marker was 112. On diet, also aquatherapy.

A royal doctor/supplier approved me for 2Iu of stuff short kids use, but I need to decide what brand. Differences are in the thousands of dollars. Also a Sermorelin option.

Any opinions? Should I start with T and H G H or just one? Is Sermorelin real?

Thanks!

[zaggahamma]

welcome ...sorry about your condition/health but glad your here and we would all love to help

not necessary to color up your posts..just tell us whats going on and we will help you the best we can...we just won a blue ribbon on being the best forum in the world..

IMO,
if i could afford it i would use the best meds available....if you have to pinch a penny then go down a tier per what you can afford

if you havent had bloodwork do so and if so please post it here...sermmorelin sounds legit although i havent researched in a while since my bloodwork doesnt say i need it (thats code for saying i cant afford it)...in all honesty i would run both and i am 42 ...

most importantly continue with your aquatherapy and give it your HONEST BEST and tell us all about it when/if you feel like it...there are ppl here every/all day to support you and are happy to..

imma stop there and let others chime in but will be subscribed

good luck

[kelkel]

^^subscribed. You've got friends here willing to help.

[yannick35]

I started TRT about 5 weeks ago, i am on testosterone enhantate 200ml per week or every 7 days. I am very amazed at the results, chronic pains that i had in the upper back, calves, hand and feet are gone. My body as not changed that much but i must give it 3 months for the fat loss and muscle gain, at least that is what i read in the how much time it will take.

Its amazing to see what damage having low T can do to your body. Good luck and hope you poste your results soon.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

I thought I crafted a (long) great first introductory post but I used too many forbidden words; forum rejected many posting attempts.

In a nutshell... I'm in horrible shape for a 52 year old after injury... immobility ---> obesity. Can't walk more than 50 feet with walker. Was 5'11" blew out lumbar discs, now 5'9" 360 pounds.

Had blood tests done. The male T marker was 112. On diet, also aquatherapy.

A royal doctor/supplier approved me for 2Iu of stuff short kids use, but I need to decide what brand. Differences are in the thousands of dollars. Also a Sermorelin option.

Any opinions? Should I start with T and H G H or just one? Is Sermorelin real?

Thanks!

You don't say where you are from, but the "royal doctor" leads me to believe I am out of touch with this American phrase or you are from some country other than America. This is only relevant for me to understand your insurance situation. Since you raised the issue of "thousands of dollars", I'll just assume the drugs are not covered by any insurance.

Testosterone therapy is going to show faster results. Also, HGH does not really raise testosterone and since your level is so low (112), I would think you should opt for testosterone if you are going to pick just one. Not only will you get the most benefit for your buck, but you are going to get the most benefit from TRT by far!

HGH has benefits for health, but it is slow acting and quite frankly not dramatic. It may assist in your disk health some, but the findings on that are not conclusive. Some people report healing in that area and some people report no benefit in that area. HGH, as you have seen, is quite expensive. The good thing about HGH is it affects many systems in a positive way. The bad thing, as you have seen, is that it is very expensive.

Sermorelin is a prescription peptide that tells your body to release HGH. It is a growth hormone release hormone (GHRH). It is not a very good one, either. There are better ones but none approved by the FDA in America for use. Sermorelin is active in the body for a few minutes. So it has a very short period of time to tell the pituitary to release GH. And it will only raise GH levels a litle bit. So it is better than nothing but there are much better approaches. There are things called peptides that have been used and tested for a couple decades now. Problem is there is no money in them for GH use so the expensive studies to get them medically approved has never been done. Go over to the IGF-1, LR3, HGH forum and do some research over there on GHRP and Mod GRF (1-29). Mod GRF (1-29) is also called CJC-1295 w/o DAC. Sermorelin is also called CJC-1293. Of course, all of this gets very complicated and is a lot of information for a new user looking at HRT. Especially since GHRP and Mod GRF (1-29) are peptides only available as research chemicals. In other words, you are supposed to only use them on your lab rat. Welcome to the world of steroids versus the medical community! What you may want is not necessarily what you can easily get.

My personal suggestion would be to start theTRT, work on diet and start loseing weight. Give that six months then consider adding in HGH, or Sermorelin, or going with the GHRP and Mod GRF (1-29) peptides to raise your GH levels. Given your health state, this last option may not be a good idea unless you do it with your doctor's knowledge.

With TRT, and probably without it at your body fat percentage, you may have high estradiol levels. You will need to take an AI to keep that level low. You didn't post any bloodwork, so we can't see where you're currently at for this marker.

Most importantly, do lots of reading on this forum. It may take a while to digest the stuff, but when it comes to HRT, knowledge is everything because most docs don't know much about it.

Good luck!

[SlimmerMe]

Welcome!

I do have a question for the members: since OP's weight is high with an extremely high BF if he were to start TRT even with the help of an AI to help to keep his sides low and although understandably a therapy test dose versus a cycle dose, couldn't TRT bloat OP up even more? and especially combined with HGH? together they might REALLY blow him up more with his high BF.....

open for discussion please....thanks

[SlimmerMe]

and since I do not have an edit option:

ps: Happy to see you are here and being proactive. You have come to a great place for help. Would love to see you start a thread in the Nutrition forum and perhaps start a log there. It would really help you. You would be amazed how much a log helps.

Hope to see you there! We all end up there sooner or later~
SM

[fit2bOld]

Welcome!

I do have a question for the members: since OP's weight is high with an extremely high BF if he were to start TRT even with the help of an AI to help to keep his sides low and although understandably a therapy test dose versus a cycle dose, couldn't TRT bloat OP up even more? and especially combined with HGH? together they might REALLY blow him up more with his high BF.....

open for discussion please....thanks

Great questions: I would like to see a full set of blood work but, believe the energy benefit in a well controlled therapy would help him to elevate his fitness activities, on the other hand would the appetite enhancing properties of Test be detrimental and lead to further weight gain? Wouldn't HGH if indicated be a benefit in and of itself.

[zaggahamma]

slimmer i was well above 20% prolly around 25 when i started trt and it did the opposite for me i got as low as 14% right after starting trt...this is just my experience but i know of others i've seen on this site ...

i know it isnt advised to cycle with higher bodyfat which actually makes a lot of sense because before gaining any type of weight if you are already overweight it wouldnt make sense to gain more(imo)

but i feel trt would benefit the op in this situation

again my 2 pennies

[kelkel]

^^agree with JPK and GNBM. Start TRT along with a strict diet and find something that you can do physically without hurting yourself further.

[flatscat]

I agree with JP and K well but with a couple of comments.

With your stats - 5'9 and 360 - you gotta be around or above 40%bf - so -

You should try to lose as much of that as you can before you start - you have become sedentary and with that BF your E2 is more than likely way out of range. You could and should try to lower that before you jump on the t. You can do it by reducing BF and/or with an AI. Now that being said, you probably have ten times the risk of other side effects/complications because of your obesity - so, you should make sure you are closely being monitored by a physician at all times.

If you do the above for at least two months - you will have made a start in changing your metabolism and developing healthy eating habits as well as strength and conditioning habits you do not have now. That is probably the most important thing for you to do before you start trt - no matter how much you have accomplished during those two months. See, the WORST thing you can do is to jump on trt and sit there and do nothing - you might see your health deteriorate from where it is today.

Not trying to scare you at all.... just want you to get a head start on your transformation to the new you bro.

Head over to the diet section, start a thread and get some advise, and change the way you eat. Start some cardio and work your way up on time and intensity. Drop some pounds, and start a strength training program. Do this for a while and get your levels retested.

Not sure about GH right now - you have way bigger problems than a deficiency in those levels (if you are in fact deficient).

You can do this - read all you can here, spend time on the internet researching hrt, and take all our advise in, then make your own informed decision along with your physician about how to accomplish your goals.

Good luck and we are all here to help!

Flats

[zaggahamma]

I agree with JP and K well but with a couple of comments.

With your stats - 5'9 and 360 - you gotta be around or above 40%bf - so -

You should try to lose as much of that as you can before you start - you have become sedentary and with that BF your E2 is more than likely way out of range. You could and should try to lower that before you jump on the t. You can do it by reducing BF and/or with an AI. Now that being said, you probably have ten times the risk of other side effects/complications because of your obesity - so, you should make sure you are closely being monitored by a physician at all times.

If you do the above for at least two months - you will have made a start in changing your metabolism and developing healthy eating habits as well as strength and conditioning habits you do not have now. That is probably the most important thing for you to do before you start trt - no matter how much you have accomplished during those two months. See, the WORST thing you can do is to jump on trt and sit there and do nothing - you might see your health deteriorate from where it is today.

Not trying to scare you at all.... just want you to get a head start on your transformation to the new you bro.

Head over to the diet section, start a thread and get some advise, and change the way you eat. Start some cardio and work your way up on time and intensity. Drop some pounds, and start a strength training program. Do this for a while and get your levels retested.

Not sure about GH right now - you have way bigger problems than a deficiency in those levels (if you are in fact deficient).

You can do this - read all you can here, spend time on the internet researching hrt, and take all our advise in, then make your own informed decision along with your physician about how to accomplish your goals.

Good luck and we are all here to help!

Flats

good point and i forgot to mention that i did do that myself i dropped from 290 to 250 and was stuck there for 6 months before trt then trt was the missing link

[SlimmerMe]

I agree with JP and K well but with a couple of comments.

With your stats - 5'9 and 360 - you gotta be around or above 40%bf - so -

You should try to lose as much of that as you can before you start - you have become sedentary and with that BF your E2 is more than likely way out of range. You could and should try to lower that before you jump on the t. You can do it by reducing BF and/or with an AI. Now that being said, you probably have ten times the risk of other side effects/complications because of your obesity - so, you should make sure you are closely being monitored by a physician at all times.

If you do the above for at least two months - you will have made a start in changing your metabolism and developing healthy eating habits as well as strength and conditioning habits you do not have now. That is probably the most important thing for you to do before you start trt - no matter how much you have accomplished during those two months. See, the WORST thing you can do is to jump on trt and sit there and do nothing - you might see your health deteriorate from where it is today.

Not trying to scare you at all.... just want you to get a head start on your transformation to the new you bro.

Head over to the diet section, start a thread and get some advise, and change the way you eat. Start some cardio and work your way up on time and intensity. Drop some pounds, and start a strength training program. Do this for a while and get your levels retested.

Not sure about GH right now - you have way bigger problems than a deficiency in those levels (if you are in fact deficient).

You can do this - read all you can here, spend time on the internet researching hrt, and take all our advise in, then make your own informed decision along with your physician about how to accomplish your goals.

Good luck and we are all here to help!

Flats

Thanks
BOLD ABOVE is what I was hoping to communicate to OP. I hope he returns so he can start to transform his life.

good point and i forgot to mention that i did do that myself i dropped from 290 to 250 and was stuck there for 6 months before trt then trt was the missing link

dropping those lbs first was paramount to get the results you saw to take you to another level I am assuming...Thanks

[reptiles]

Wow, thanks for the great advice, guys.

My family doctor wasn't interested in exploring any HRT options so I signed up with a remote Florida doctor.

I did a full blood panel and everything was good except for low T at 112 and CRP (inflammation) was 11.6 (normal range 0-3) My fasting Glucose was a bit worrysome at 120 but I'm not a diabetic (yet) and I suspect that will fall as I lose weight. My lipids were normal.

Anyway to address a couple comments... yes, I'm in the US. The royal doctor comment was an obtuse reference to the service I hired since I didn't think it prudent to post actual sources.

I signed up for Tevtropin, Test, and HGH for 12 weeks (all I could afford at present; as noted, I have no insurance that will pay for this.)

I'm on high blood pressure chemicals (just started a couple months ago) and they deplete Potassium so I'm trying to eat foods with about 4g of K daily. That's at least 600 calories and typically over 800 cal. Hopefully I can drop those BP chemicals as my weight drops.

Thank you all, I'm sure I will have more questions.

[JohnnyVegas]

Regarding TRT with high BF: I was 36.8% when I started TRT at the beginning of the year and had zero sides. I think the sides come more into play at cycle doses.

I am in huge agreement with the comment above that the drugs alone will not fix the problem. Continued diet and exercise will help the body change quickly.

[JohnnyVegas]

The clinics are expensive, so take the next 12 weeks to find a local doc that will just write you a scrip that you can take to your pharmacy of choice. You will save a lot of money that way. Also, I recommend not letting them sell you things...just stick with Test and HCG for now. Have an AI on hand in case you start to have symptoms.

Why do you need GH again? I didn't quite understand that. Avoid it if there isn't a medical necessity...that stuff is stupid expensive and shouldn't get in the way of having consistent TRT treatment.

[reptiles]

The clinics are expensive, so take the next 12 weeks to find a local doc that will just write you a scrip that you can take to your pharmacy of choice. You will save a lot of money that way. Also, I recommend not letting them sell you things...just stick with Test and HCG for now. Have an AI on hand in case you start to have symptoms.

What is an AI and what symptoms are most likely? Thanks.

Why do you need GH again? I didn't quite understand that. Avoid it if there isn't a medical necessity...that stuff is stupid expensive and shouldn't get in the way of having consistent TRT treatment.

I know guys lost 100+ pounds on HGH and I'm in a dire position to lose weight or die. I'm so inactive (can hardly walk) that I don't lose weight on a 800 cal diet. I wish surfing the web burned more energy, lol.

[xo3et]

Dude i wish you all the best with this. 100% dedication and strict diet should be at the forefront.

Good luck

[flatscat]

You are looking for a magic pill - there is none - not even trt and/or hgh. Diet and exercise will be your best friends, once you decide you have to do something to save your life. TRT might become your third best friend once you find the first two.

Take a picture of yourself - put it up on the fridge and on your bathroom mirror. Make it your desktop background. Look at that fckr every chance you get. Now go do something - anything - and build on that. Come on man, u can do this!!!!!!

Here is a little motivation for you......

http://forums.steroid .com/showthread.php?485824-Who-has-the-best-before-and-after-shots-on-here#.TtPt9rJiS40

[SlimmerMe]

What is an AI and what symptoms are most likely? Thanks.



I know guys lost 100+ pounds on HGH and I'm in a dire position to lose weight or die. I'm so inactive (can hardly walk) that I don't lose weight on a 800 cal diet. I wish surfing the web burned more energy, lol.

are you sure hgh and not hcg ? sometimes people get the 2 confused hence why I am asking. If you plan on the HGH route keep in mind you will need to do at least 6 months to see much of an improvement.

I know you are frustrated and rightfully so. Could you walk a little bit? at all? what can you do physically at this moment. Remember all of this is BABY steps. And it takes awhile to figure out what works and what doesn't. But there are some sure things you could start asap and some sort of exercise would be one of the first big steps.

Again, glad you are here. If you hang in here I promise you that your life will change.

[SlimmerMe]

ps: and your thyroid? how is that? hope okay.....

[zaggahamma]

Regarding TRT with high BF: I was 36.8% when I started TRT at the beginning of the year and had zero sides. I think the sides come more into play at cycle doses.

I am in huge agreement with the comment above that the drugs alone will not fix the problem. Continued diet and exercise will help the body change quickly.

glad you posted that....gives SOME credence to the unpopular ...AGAIN...its not a one size fits all treatment

[flatscat]

glad you posted that....gives SOME credence to the unpopular ...AGAIN...its not a one size fits all treatment

agree, never was a fan of saying you had to be a certain bf to take a trt dose or even a cycle - its more the fact of trying to reduce as much as you can before, being disciplined about diet and training before you get on if you want the results - mostly with regards to the problems E2 causes. One thing is for sure - you will have to diet and train regardless if you start now or later - might as well start now.

[Vettester]

ps: and your thyroid? how is that? hope okay.....

^^ Definitely a key question. If you have any lab panels with ranges, please post them up. Has your doctor ruled out any tumors/cysts as being part of the condition?

[flatscat]

update? what did you decide to do OP?

[reptiles]

update? what did you decide to do OP?

I spoke to my doctor today, I'm going to do Test and HCG , HGH, Sermorelin, and B12 self-injections. Doctor was impressed how much I learned since I first spoke to him a couple weeks ago. I also plan to improve my diet, take a good number of LEF.org supplements (Co-Q10, Vits, Reserverol, etc.) I'm also trying to walk a bit more each day. The place I do my aquatherapy (waterwalking) is also going to hook me up with a personal trainer.

Damn, this is gonna cost me a fortune, but its money that otherwise would go to my heirs, as I don't see myself living long in present condition.

Thanks for the support.

PS: Thyroid TSH was 2.08 uIU/mg and T4 Free (direct) was 1.03 ng/dL which I believe are ok.

[flatscat]

Dayam. That's a lot to start with. Bro, sounds like you have made up your mind so good luck. I really didn't like the words "I plan on". Get your diet in check BEFORE u do anything and stay on it for a while. Make sure you have the discipline in place....please.
we all are pulling for you. I know I sound like a broken record but make sure you are monitored very closley by ur physician. I also recommend your labs be run at least once a month until you have things under control and see you are on the right track. Please keep us posted and we are here when u need us.

Flats