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11-29-2011, 09:15 PM #1
1 MG A-DEX daily with a low-dose topical test?
Long time no post. Hope everyone enjoyed their Thanksgiving. I have concerns:
In my 6th year of HRT, I have yet to get totally dialed in. I'll spare you the long version but:
My BW shows a T-level of 289. I am sorry but I was not given the full report.
I have been on C-testosterone cream all of this time. The label reads 7%, dose is 1 ml 3 x daily.
My doc will not prescribe injectibles and I am out of town too frequently to go in for shots. I've asked him to up my doses and switch me to the androgel as this cream is just too messy.
He wrote me a script for androgel 1% (50 mgs/5gram) to be applied once daily. The pharmacist says they do not make the gel in that strength (?), he also said that this would be no more than what I am getting with my current cream (?).
I asked the doc if I should consider Aremidex. He seemed puzzled and mumbled something bout not knowing how much to prescribe. Ultimately, he wrote me a script for Arimidex and prescribes a dose of 1 mg daily!
I don't think he even looked at my E2 and I don't (think) I have alarmingly high E-levels. No puffiness, very little nipple sensitivity etc. I asked him if it would be a good idea, thinking he might know. I'm 52 and want to max my gains and enjoy life (solid erections etc). Can someone tell me if any of the above makes any sense at all? I am grateful for this forum. I actually put a 1 mg pill in my daily pillcase and after reading a bit here...just took all of the A-dex back out! I will await your replies prior to messing with this stuff at all.
Thanks in advance.
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11-29-2011, 09:25 PM #2Associate Member
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At 1 mg a day you would have way to low estrogen. I would get a new bloodwork done with new test levels and with estradiol, sensitive. In 6 weeks because your test dose is going up.. And see where your at first. Definitely bloodwork first. If he won't give you a lab slip check out privatemdlabs.com.
Last edited by Mario L; 11-29-2011 at 09:32 PM.
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11-29-2011, 09:39 PM #3
Thanks Mario. But my test levels just might not be going up. I was on the test (cream) when I did my bloodwork. It came back at 289 and this is why I asked him to bump me up and switch me to the androgel . This is where it starting getting weird with the pharmasists remarks in my above post. It would seem he didn't bump me up at all, so I may be stuck at 289. Unless someone here knows if this androgel is stronger than the cream I was on?? I'm actually quite pissed about the whole ordeal..
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11-29-2011, 09:47 PM #4Associate Member
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So if your doc prescribed a med that doesn't exist in that dose. Did he change it. I believe androgel comes in a higher does than what he tried to prescribe.
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11-29-2011, 10:16 PM #5
The doc and the pharmasist are trying to "work out the numbers" Mario. I was the one that actually tuned this doc onto HRT. He'd "heard of it". We agreed that I would be his test dummy...but 6 years later, I'm still sub-300. His latest comment was "well, you're better than you were before". He just isn't grasping the premise here. I once had to visit his partner. This guy was like from another planet. His mission was to get me "off testosterone ". I asked what he was thinking of and he said "your levels were low, we raised them, now it's time to get you off the medicine". I refused to see him again.
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11-29-2011, 11:05 PM #6
so what did he base the 1mg AI ed on? your test level in in the tank as is, i don't think you're absorbing enough to raise your test. in my opinion he should put you on injectable. 1mg AI is way too much and it can cause some serious side effects. demand he checks e2, this is bull shit prescribing AI blindly! also ask him to give you a copy of your blood test and post it here.
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11-30-2011, 12:05 AM #7
Bass,
Thanks for your reply. It really was that bad. It was clear to me then and clearer to me now, that he did in fact just blindly prescribe the 1ML of A-dex. Daily.
I have to get more proactive in this (again) with first stop a new doc. I would like to get the take-away injectibles as I am not in a situation where I can be local all of the time. This is one reason I wanted the androgel .
With my T @ 289, anyone know off hand what a proper daily dose of the gel should be (approximately)? Just so I can be sure I am being prescribed something close? Not looking to top 1000 or anything, but I'd sure like to approach that number.
Thanks again.Last edited by n2ojones; 11-30-2011 at 12:07 AM. Reason: clarity
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11-30-2011, 01:21 AM #8
perhaps Kel can weigh in on this. Kel?
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11-30-2011, 06:51 AM #9Member
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The standard beginning Androgel dose is 5gms. daily of the 1% gel. It comes in 5gm. packets, or a more handy pump bottle where 4 pumps is equal to 5gms dose.
I'm not sure that your pharmacist is correct. Given your levels, it sure seems like you could be prescribed a higher dose of the gel. Androgel also comes in a 1.62% formulation now, which means less gel applied to get the same dosage. I sort of agree with the others...that if your levels are that low on the cream you were using...well maybe your skin just doesn't absorb the testosterone very well. If that is the case, an injectible would be a better option.
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11-30-2011, 07:09 AM #10
in the meantime be looking for a new doctor
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11-30-2011, 07:51 AM #11
welcome back - wish you would have stayed - you could have avoided 6 years of being someone's "test dummy"... stick around - we will help get you fixed bro.
Time for a real education for your current doc - good stuff here you can print out and take to him - if he doesn't listen, then like JP said, find a new one.
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11-30-2011, 09:24 AM #12HRT
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^^^ EXACTLY!
Why the hell are you seeing these quacks this long as they've done you no good...and possibly hurting you.
1 mg of an AI daily? You could die with the low level of E2 that would drop you to.
Find an AA clinic near you or call a local compounding pharma and see if they can recommend a Doc who prescribes TRT protocols complete with Test, AI and hCG .
Dead God...
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11-30-2011, 09:29 AM #13
Sounds like the doc is an idiot.
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11-30-2011, 09:39 AM #14HRT
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11-30-2011, 10:38 AM #15
1. Get a new doc asap. Too much time wasted already.
2. 1mg daily of adex is a breast cancer dosage. Jeez!
3. T level too low. Should be 2-3 times that amount. Need to know free T & Bio-available T (gold standard)
4. Sign HIPA form at next BW and have them send you copies ahead of time so you can prepare for doc visits (hopefully with new doc)
5. Post BW here for eval and advice. Use Crisler's protocols as a guide (see #7)
6. Read all sticky threads at top of forum if you haven't already.
7. Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read Dr. Crislers protocols. Print them for next Doc visit
8. Androgel 1.62% insert: http://www.rxabbott.com/pdf/androgel1_62_PI.pdf If using agel, get on 1.62
9. In the above insert is the below comment which will benefit you temporarily until you find a good doc and get a proper dosage. Just make sure you stop the below procedure prior to BW for obvious reasons...
Effect of sunscreen or moisturizing lotion on absorption of testosterone
In a randomized, 3-way (3 treatment periods without washout period) crossover study in 18 hypogonadal males, the effect of applying a moisturizing lotion or
a sunscreen on the absorption of testosterone was evaluated with the upper arms/shoulders as application sites. For 7 days, moisturizing lotion or sunscreen
(SPF 50) was applied daily to the AndroGel 1.62% application site 1 hour after the application of AndroGel 1.62% 40.5 mg. Application of moisturizing
lotion increased mean testosterone Cavg and Cmax by 14% and 17%, respectively, compared to AndroGel 1.62% administered alone. Application of sunscreen
increased mean testosterone Cavg and Cmax by 8% and 13%, respectively, compared to AndroGel 1.62% applied alone
10. HCG , HCG, HCG
11. See #1
For some perspective, I'm on 6 pumps of Agel 1.62 every morning upon waking up. My last bw 25 hrs after application was as follows:
T free and total: 712, range 193-740 (range now changed as of 10/17/11)
Free T: 17.3, range 7.2 - 24.0
Bioavailable T w/o shbg: 699, range 350-1030
Bioavailable T, S: 364, range males 50-69 is 95-285
Bioavailable T %: 52.1
The gel does work but it's an individual thing. I'm 54 (today actually) and was basically totally shut down due to a pituitary tumor (59 T level) so I kinda was starting from scratch.
Keep us posted and good luck!
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11-30-2011, 10:45 AM #16Associate Member
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Happy Birthday Kel!
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11-30-2011, 11:17 AM #17
Why thanks!
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11-30-2011, 01:12 PM #18
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11-30-2011, 01:12 PM #19Originally Posted by gdevine;5819***
IF you read my OP, you will see that I have not taken ONE dose of the A-dex. Instead I came here looking for help and advice. If I sought help in a forum comprised strictly of people like you, then I would be an idiot. Instead, I am here in this great forum and have received, aside from your's. alot of great advice and information. Thank you all. I am grateful.
IF you would have done similar research prior to putting your foot in your mouth, you would have learned that this "idiot" lives on a very small and remote island with VERY few options in the way of doctors.
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11-30-2011, 01:23 PM #20
Wow! I REALLY appreciate the effort you put into your reply...and on your birthday?!? Thanks. I will read deeper into, then follow your suggestions, and get this information to another doctor. Earlier I mentioned that this current doc and I were going to sorta' learn this stuff together. He's a good enough guy but he obviously failed to live up to his end of the deal. I have been slightly disatisfied with this and now, with this A-dex ordeal, I am both livid and finished with him.
I have to go to work and cannot thank you all individually for your excellent replies at this time...so I thank you all here and hope everyone has a great day. Please enjoy Kel's birthday along with him.
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11-30-2011, 02:06 PM #21HRT
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Originally Posted by n2ojones;5820076[B
Ask any man on this board about me and they will tell you that I am probably the complete opposite of the verbal attack you made on me here.
Idiot....seriously???
BTW, Look ar REDZ post above and before you go jumping all over another member in good standing here on this board you may want to take a freaking breath. It's the fastest way to NOT get the help your looking for...trust me.
And for what it's worth, I had my annual Pull and Physicial today with a reknowned TRT physician I have been seeing for years and I told him of your situation and how your Doc wanted to prescribe 1 mg of an AI daily. His response..."that would kill him in time".
Peace my friend.Last edited by steroid.com 1; 11-30-2011 at 02:21 PM.
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11-30-2011, 02:32 PM #22
n2o,
Regarding GD's posts. You totally misread it and basically owe him an apology. GD is without question one of the most respected posters we have here and his knowledge and ability to help people is without reproach. Once again, you misread it. Hang in there and keep us all posted on this thread when possible.
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11-30-2011, 04:26 PM #23
I appreciate that. I really do. But (and I hope to put this to rest) how can I have taken your remark any other way? Please do re-read your post following Redz. IF you then feel I owe you an apology, you will get one. I am not here to stir the pot. I am here to seek help to what you describe as a potentially life-threatening sitation. I have no doubt you are a good guy and a valuable contributer, but again, waking up to being called an idiot, when I felt I was being very intelligent in seeking YOUR advice, it just pizzed me off. And I believe, rightfully so.
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11-30-2011, 04:33 PM #24Originally Posted by gdevine;5819***
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11-30-2011, 04:38 PM #25HRT
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In all my time here and well over 1000 posts I've never called anyone an idiot with the exceptions of possibly Physicians like the two whose care you are under.
Redz said the same thing...I just meant both Docs...especailly the one you walked out on which was the right thing to do...AND DID NOT MEAN YOU!
Too much hostility here lately.
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11-30-2011, 04:39 PM #26
Thank you. You are correct and my explanation, hopefully accepted, is above. After 6 years of this brand of incompetence, I feel like I have been running in circles and I obviously misinterpreted, then over-reacted, to this helpful man's post. Maybe I should pour some milk and sugar on these A-dex's in an attempt to get my manhood back, LOL.
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11-30-2011, 04:43 PM #27
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11-30-2011, 04:45 PM #28HRT
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Now you got it!
Honest mistake man but take caution in your tone when you respond to members here and think about what you put in a thread and most importantly keep you emotions under control.
There's not one member here I have ever seen disrespectful to new and/or long term members...ever. It's what sets us apart from other similar forums I can say that with 100% certainty.
Remember, early posts are like first impressions. You want the first ones to be great, if not...it takes a lot to make it up.
Peace
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11-30-2011, 05:06 PM #29
Thanks for the advice and without beating a dead horse, perhaps consider the wording of your replies going forward. Had you said both of these doctors are idiots, instead of "they both are.... the OP needs/must manage his own healthcare". This confusion would never have happened. Things are easily misunderstood in written word.
In any event, I am grateful for your time, wisdom and consideration.
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11-30-2011, 05:45 PM #30Banned
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Glad you used common sense and didn't take the high dosages on the AI. Like gd and others pointed out, it could be harmful; potentially fatal if administered too long. The doctor that did this also doesn't realize that there will be an estrogen rebound effect after the E2 crashes, which leads to a whole new set of problems. Our position on your doctor is relatively obvious, and I would start with Kelkel's advise, #1 (Getting a new doc).
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11-30-2011, 06:56 PM #31
Welcome N2o,
This is a good place to be to get feeling better.
You can travel with HRT gear in your luggage (checked bags only) I have been across and out of the country with gear you must have a script and be sure its in the box or pill bottle it came in with the current label from the pharmacy attached. I put it all in along with BP and Thyroid meds in small zippered bag inside my toiletry bag. Only take what you need, HCG cannot travel as it need to be refrigerated.
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11-30-2011, 09:39 PM #32
Roid rage . lol
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12-02-2011, 07:55 PM #33
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12-02-2011, 07:59 PM #34
Thanks Fit,
I was in Manila a few weeks ago and got hassled for my topical syringes, lol. Like you said, I produced my script and they backed off (without even looking at it). My problem has been finding a doc that would prescribe injectibles. I assume there is much more money to be made by having me wait 2 hrs in his waiting room for the shot. I have been reading about SubQ and will mention this to my next doc. Seems that technique should diminish their concerns (1?!).
Have a great weekend.
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12-02-2011, 08:00 PM #35
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12-07-2011, 03:14 AM #36
I would like to see some proof (e.g. Written reports, clinical studies) stating claims that taking 1mg of arimidex is "fatal" and deadly.
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12-07-2011, 09:36 AM #37
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12-07-2011, 10:12 AM #38Knowledgeable Member
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I mg/day of Adex should not cause any issues.
I need to find my old studies where AI-monotherapy used (IRC, 5 mg/day) with no physiological problems.
Now, of course, mixing what appears to be very low dosage of test with a high dose of an AI could cause some HPT axis feedback issues, but I don't know.
At same time, mixing higher doses of test (not the case here) with high AI is not a good formula for success and you guys could be right about the dangers.
I originally tried the Adex-monotherapy route using 1 mg/day, but had only a modest boost in total test. The other issue is that bone turnover is affected negatively by AI's so
what you are trying to accomplish by boosting test, you negate with the AI.Last edited by ecdysone; 12-07-2011 at 02:35 PM.
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12-07-2011, 10:20 AM #39
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12-07-2011, 02:00 PM #40HRT
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To put 1 mg AI daily in perspective; below is from the FDA on AI use in women with diagnosed breast Cancer:
Anastrozole Dosage and Administration
Recommended Dose
The dose of Anastrozole is one 1 mg tablet taken once a day. For patients with advanced breast cancer, Anastrozole should be continued until tumor progression. Anastrozole can be taken with or without food.
For adjuvant treatment of early breast cancer in postmenopausal women, the optimal duration of therapy is unknown. In the ATAC trial Anastrozole was administered for five years. [see CLINICAL STUDIES (14.1)]
No dosage adjustment is necessary for patients with renal impairment or for elderly patients. [see USE IN SPECIFIC POPULATIONS (8.6)]
1 mg per day is a chemotherapeutic dosage in the case above at least.
I don't think I'd want to take 1 mg of an AI daily for any reason unless of course I had breast cancer
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