red blood cells

[harleyrider]

my red count was a little high. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

[ecsaaron]

you can donate blood to get it down

[kelkel]

If you on TRT it is a common side efftect. It's called polycythemia (sp?). Donate double red blood cells at your local blood bank. It will bring you back down to a good level, you'll feel better and your doing a good deed at the same time. It takes a little longer than whole blood to do and you can only do it around every 108 or 118 days, can't remember which at the moment. Search up a local blood bank and read up. Then do it religiously.

[ecsaaron]

your blood can get thick on test too and giving helps this also.I think it is the Hematocrit( somebody will correct me if im wrong) but those two things(rbc) have me on a 56 day donation cycle.my last rbc was 5.79 out of a 4.10 to 5.60 so a little on the high side Welcome to the board

[harleyrider]

Is that the only way. What if I reduce the test amount?

[zaggahamma]

Is that the only way. What if I reduce the test amount?

try that and retest then let us know

[moparmuscle]

Donate blood. I only have to do it once every 4 months to remain middle healthy normal range, other have to more often. A high RBC count is hard on your kidneys and cardiac system. Espescially over time.

[Mr Bill]

I am headed in to donate on Sunday. I have been feeling like crap(headache, joint pain, muscle pain, and just plain old tired)I stoped cardio and lifting for two weeks to see if it would get better but it is the same.My last blood work came back with good numbers for test and E2 but my RBC came back high at 5.89 4.10-5.60 so I will see if donateing will help.

Is 5.89 considered high enough to be a problem?

How do they clean the machine that is used for the double red donations? I ask this because your blood goes through this machine and the RBC'S are removed and then the blood is put back in you. It seams like a possible chance to come into contact with a nasty disease if it is not cleaned properly.

[steroid.com 1]

your blood can get thick on test too and giving helps this also.I think it is the Hematocrit( somebody will correct me if im wrong) but those two things(rbc) have me on a 56 day donation cycle.my last rbc was 5.79 out of a 4.10 to 5.60 so a little on the high side Welcome to the board

Nope, you are correct sir!

[moparmuscle]

Just donate whole blood every 2 moths tell it drops to within range. It feels great if you are high, like presure is released. Like an oil change for the body. I love it.

[kelkel]

I am headed in to donate on Sunday. I have been feeling like crap(headache, joint pain, muscle pain, and just plain old tired)I stoped cardio and lifting for two weeks to see if it would get better but it is the same.My last blood work came back with good numbers for test and E2 but my RBC came back high at 5.89 4.10-5.60 so I will see if donateing will help.

Is 5.89 considered high enough to be a problem?

How do they clean the machine that is used for the double red donations? I ask this because your blood goes through this machine and the RBC'S are removed and then the blood is put back in you. It seams like a possible chance to come into contact with a nasty disease if it is not cleaned properly.

I had the same fleeting thought about cleaning the machine but there were so many hot nurses at this donation site (University Campus) that the thought immediately escaped me. Just like the double red blood cells did....

ps: garden hose out back! jk

[moparmuscle]

The machine will be clean, imagine the lawsuit if someone caught something from a donation center?

[JohnnyVegas]

I am looking into donating as well. I have several things at the top of the range (hematocrit, RBC, platelets and I think something else) and my BP is now at 160/100. I thought it was my elevated dose, but it has been almost two weeks and my BP isn't dropping.

[bass]

I am looking into donating as well. I have several things at the top of the range (hematocrit, RBC, platelets and I think something else) and my BP is now at 160/100. I thought it was my elevated dose, but it has been almost two weeks and my BP isn't dropping.

my BP goes up when these values are elevated, donating blood brings it down.

[moparmuscle]

Do it, well worth it. You will feel GREAT afterwards if RBC / blood presure is high. Plus free cookies and juice lol

[ecdysone]

You should also consider low-dose aspirin because the greatest risk is clotting to the point of causing strokes and death.

[lvs]

That is pretty high Johnny, what does it normally run? Don't you feel like crap, headache, tense and anxiety?

I am looking into donating as well. I have several things at the top of the range (hematocrit, RBC, platelets and I think something else) and my BP is now at 160/100. I thought it was my elevated dose, but it has been almost two weeks and my BP isn't dropping.

[Forest]

A relatively higher RBC is a bad thing? Hmmm... An alternative point of view is that for athletes who are not lifting weights and looking in the mirror, its actually a great side effect. In fact, for an athlete that requires speed and stamina, it may prove to be more valuable then the associated strength & muscle gains. The combination of strength and spend provides an athlete with an incredible advantage, which explains why the drug is a banned substance in sports.

[steroid.com 1]

For TRT users dumping blood is a very good practice to an overall successful protocol. Doing so dumps extra oxidizing iron from the system, which for men is very healthy, and dramatically lowers the risk of cardiovascular disease.

It also greatly lessens the chance your Doctor (IF in the know) will have to stop your TRT protocol because of polycythemia (“thick blood” noted above).

[JohnnyVegas]

You should also consider low-dose aspirin because the greatest risk is clotting to the point of causing strokes and death.

Getting some tonight. Was reading about it yesterday, but didn't know what dose. Figured half an aspirin a day would hold me over. I would like to get my BP down also because I read that I could be rejected for donating because of high BP...the irony.

That is pretty high Johnny, what does it normally run? Don't you feel like crap, headache, tense and anxiety?

I normally run, uh, normal. 120/80 I think. Definitely 120, but I always forget the second number. I have a slight headache in the back of my head and I feel tired, but that could be because I am taking care of my wife after surgery (cosmetic, nothing serious).

A relatively higher RBC is a bad thing? Hmmm... An alternative point of view is that for athletes who are not lifting weights and looking in the mirror, its actually a great side effect. In fact, for an athlete that requires speed and stamina, it may prove to be more valuable then the associated strength & muscle gains. The combination of strength and spend provides an athlete with an incredible advantage, which explains why the drug is a banned substance in sports.

The problem (as I understand it) is when your red blood cell count gets high and the red blood cells make up a larger percentage of your blood. This thickens the blood and makes the hart work harder to pump it.

[steroid.com 1]

Study: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycythemia

[steroid.com 1]

Q&A from Dr. Michael Scally, MD - Not sure about the break at 12 to 18 months, however, he is respected by many in the field and I do read many of his papers as well.

Testosterone Repla***ent and Polycythemia
Q: Is there any way to avoid Polycythemia when doing TRT? I know that injections are more prone to causing this. I recently switched from shots and am currently doing 25mg T cream and 100iu HCG every day, but I am still getting elevated hematocrit and RBC. It looks like I might need to do a therapeutic phlebotomy twice in the next month for my numbers to come back within the normal range. Is there anything to be concerned about with doing frequent phlebotomies?

A: This is something that is sure to come up with TRT. This is an additional reason why I suggest individuals who are on TRT for low normal testosterone come off once every 12-18 months. This not only ensures the functionality of the HPTA but if polycythemia is a problem this will ameliorate or fix it. I was referred a patient who had polycythemia and the referring doctor was unable to stop TRT due to symptoms.

Comparison of transdermal nonscrotal testosterone patch with intramuscular injections of testosterone enanthate observed that 15.4 percent and 43.8 percent of patients, respectively, had at least one documented elevated hematocrit value (defined as over 52 percent) during the course of ~1 year. Erythrocytosis was associated with supraphysiologic levels of bioavailable testosterone and estradiol, and it occurred more frequently in the group that received intramuscular injections of testosterone.

There has been demonstrated a direct relation between testosterone dosage and the incidence of erythrocytosis. Erythrocytosis occurred in 2.8 percent of men receiving 5 mg per day by nonscrotal patches and in 11.3 percent and 17.9 percent of men treated with gel preparations of 50 mg per day (delivering 5 mg per day) and 100 mg per day (delivering 10 mg per day), respectively.

Phlebotomy is on the whole a safe procedure, the frequency of side effects being low and their severity weak. Although untoward events are unlikely with mild erythrocytosis of relatively short duration, the hematocrit or hemoglobin level should be monitored in men receiving testosterone-repla***ent therapy so that appropriate measures, such as dosage reduction, the withholding of testosterone, therapeutic phlebotomy, or blood donation, may be instituted if erythrocytosis develops. It is reassuring that as far as we can determine, no testosterone-associated thromboembolic events have been reported to date.

[fit2bOld]

So what to do if not eligible to donate but RBC and iron are high.???

[moparmuscle]

Your dr can write you a script to have it drawn and then destroyed

[kelkel]

A relatively higher RBC is a bad thing? Hmmm... An alternative point of view is that for athletes who are not lifting weights and looking in the mirror, its actually a great side effect. In fact, for an athlete that requires speed and stamina, it may prove to be more valuable then the associated strength & muscle gains. The combination of strength and spend provides an athlete with an incredible advantage, which explains why the drug is a banned substance in sports.

Very true Forest but for the short term though. Like AAS usage there's a risk to benefit ratio that must be evaluated by the individual.

[kelkel]

Johnny V. Get some low dose aspirin. 81 mg. Take it at bedtime. I take that plus melatonin every night. I sleep well, don't code out, pee the bed. Wake up. Repeat.

[zaggahamma]

I am looking into donating as well. I have several things at the top of the range (hematocrit, RBC, platelets and I think something else) and my BP is now at 160/100. I thought it was my elevated dose, but it has been almost two weeks and my BP isn't dropping.

scary bp numbers bro

[JohnnyVegas]

Johnny V. Get some low dose aspirin. 81 mg. Take it at bedtime. I take that plus melatonin every night. I sleep well, don't code out, pee the bed. Wake up. Repeat.

Got it. I will do that until I donate. Then I will know if my RBC and hematocrit are responsible.

scary bp numbers bro

Yeah, and I believe you already told me to donate if I hadn't started already. Wasn't that you in my thread about high BP?

[ecdysone]

JohnnyV

Just to be clear about this, and I'm relying on my old lab days, but viscosity of the blood is totally unrelated to the clotting phenomena I was referring.

Actually, for that matter, causes of hypertension are even more mysterious than anything dealing with hormone imbalances.

Not to say the 81mg aspirin each day isn't a good thing. I do it, but not for reasons related to high BP.

Just one tip about measuring BP: don't take the first reading, but keep taking them until they agree to within 5 mm. For me the first reading is typically +20mm over the last.

[bass]

JV, 81 mg baby aspirin, its called baby aspirin due to its size, its not meant for babies! ask the pharmacist to show you which one it is.

[zaggahamma]

Got it. I will do that until I donate. Then I will know if my RBC and hematocrit are responsible.



Yeah, and I believe you already told me to donate if I hadn't started already. Wasn't that you in my thread about high BP?

sounds familiar man
160/100 needs attention

[harleyrider]

gdevine, does Dr. Scally state how long to be off trt? Thanks

[Bigfoot66]

So that's the reason why the blood center people asked me to do a donation that took my platelets out and then put my blood back in? Took about 45 minutes...and want me to do it every 115 or so days?

It wasn't bad to do...will say it wasn't as easy as just giving a pint.

[flatscat]

I am looking into donating as well. I have several things at the top of the range (hematocrit, RBC, platelets and I think something else) and my BP is now at 160/100. I thought it was my elevated dose, but it has been almost two weeks and my BP isn't dropping.

Johnny.....you have had this advise for a while now. Time to do it!

[ecsaaron]

I am looking into donating as well. I have several things at the top of the range (hematocrit, RBC, platelets and I think something else) and my BP is now at 160/100. I thought it was my elevated dose, but it has been almost two weeks and my BP isn't dropping.

If you have to go on BP meds ask Doc for Lisinopril, Its free at most drug stores.

[JohnnyVegas]

Johnny.....you have had this advise for a while now. Time to do it!

Correct...it was YOU that said it a couple of weeks ago, right?

Donated double red blood cells yesterday. Today my BP was in the 140s. Better, but not perfect. I will give it a week for my blast compounds to clear my system and then go for blood work if I am still elevated.

My head feels better.

[moparmuscle]

Correct...it was YOU that said it a couple of weeks ago, right?

Donated double red blood cells yesterday. Today my BP was in the 140s. Better, but not perfect. I will give it a week for my blast compounds to clear my system and then go for blood work if I am still elevated.

My head feels better.

Cool man. Feels good huh. I do whole blood every other month.

[zaggahamma]

Correct...it was YOU that said it a couple of weeks ago, right?

Donated double red blood cells yesterday. Today my BP was in the 140s. Better, but not perfect. I will give it a week for my blast compounds to clear my system and then go for blood work if I am still elevated.

My head feels better.

MUCH BETTER BRO

keep it monitored

[JohnnyVegas]

Anyone donate, do blood work and find that they are still elevated?

Taking our red blood cells isn't going to help platelets, right? But that is what the aspirin helps with, isn't it?

[moparmuscle]

Whole blood would help with them