Trouble with the Doc, getting Trt. Find out your FAI, (free androgen index)

[althor]

I'm 40 and started getting overweight. Laying around all day on days off work, no motivation to exercise, poor sexual function. Just the usual low testosterone symptoms. Saw the Doc' first test came in with Testosterone , 6.2nmol/L. Went back for more tests a few days later, results came back with test' 13.4nmol/L, SHGB 33nmol/L, free test' 271.3. Also with this was the, FAI (free androgen index), of 41. The nurse called me in and said I was fine. My levels were normal and that I didn't even need to see the doc'. Now I downloaded a test' booklet from lawleypharm.com.au which stated that if you had a FAI of 75 or less, you should be considered for Trt. Went to another Doc', from a differant practice 6 weeks later with my bloods and armed with the test' booklet I had printed out. This Doc saw my blood results and after his eyes had finished spinning backwards in his head, he was on the phone getting an authority for a script. For Reandron1000. Now enjoying working-out, becoming awsome. Hope this helps some of you out there! So many Doctors have very narrow minds about Trt. Because of a bad rap with sports n that. I'm not into plastic surgery, botox, etc, but if I can feel young using medication, I'll do it. Also is "deca " allright to use with reandron1000? Will it effect blood results? Feeling great here from you soon.

[zaggahamma]

glad you got on the track to good health bro

hopefully you can share how your getting off the couch and/or what youre able to accomplish

you'll do good by reading threads in this forum including all the stickies on the top ....some questions you may have may be answered for you even recently posted...

what research have you done in regards to "deca " (i put it in quotes because you did) and reandron1000?

best of luck and welcome

[sirupate]

Welcome here althor! You'll learn quite a bit if you stay around. Those reference levels (used outside USA) always throw me. Need to look up reandron1000...not familiar. Probably it is something else pretty good we can't get in the USA.

[J DIESEL3]

Reandron 1000 is testosterone undecanoate.Just another name for Nebido I guess

[zaggahamma]

Yup Yup

[bass]

subscribed!

welcome here Althor, and please keep us updated with your progress.

[althor]

Only done a small amount of research on deca . Not much info on reandron 1000, as only a new product from what I can tell. Only got the data sheet, with clinical trials, based on a 6 weekly injection trial over a 168 day period. There are 2 other trials over a longer period between injections, as 6 weeks caused accumulation of testerone . Anyhow, its testerone undecanoate and each ampoule contains 1000 mg testerone in a 4 ml solution for injection. The data sheet said that it has a half life of 90 days and that repeat injections should be between 10 n 14 weeks depending on test levels. But second dose can be 9 weeks but no earlier then 6 weeks to get to good levels sooner. I,ve been told to go back in 12 weeks, but armed with my data sheet I might drop back in 9 weeks. Over here in Aus' the injections have to be given buy the doctor. Later I'll get the web address, for the data sheet or post a link. Still working out how these forums work. OK burning access weight. I' ve always been lean not sure in pounds but weighing in around 75 kg. last 4 years had a job with not much physical activity, did try to put on a few lbs by eating heaps, wanted to get to 85 kg. But jumped the mark by 9 kilos made it to 94kg instead. Went up a size with clothing. Podgy gut with good to grab love handles, the wife was complaining and the kids were giving me a hard time to. The wife got testogel for low lobido. So I helped myself to some, hey, it was like before that I was a bearly animated corpse. I started walking 1.5 to 2 hours a day and on my guard post there is 2 bars just perfect for doing dips, I would do between 40 to 120 dips in an hour depending on how much traffic there was. At another gate I manned there was a perfect chin up bar or heaves if you like, combined with sets of 50 reps of press-ups push-ups, also with 10 mins of walking occasionally for recovery. End up doing 400 to 500 push-ups in a 12 hour shift and about 120 to 150 chin-ups. About 6 weeks ago I descovered resistance bands I use 80lb 100lb n 120lb bands but if I double them up keep on breaking the plastic handles. I've been on RD1000 for 4 weeks used testogel for 6 weeks before that, I've lost 8 kilograms down to 86 kg not quite cut but had 2 weeks break over the festive season. I see so many over-wieght guys at work and I can guess what the problem usually is. But the doctors down here would rather people die of weight related problems then prescribe testerone. Hope I wasn't to much of a drag.

[althor]

Data sheet file is to large to upload, bugger!

[zaggahamma]

alrighty then

well, now, what is your bloodwork concern if you were to add deca to the mix? does your doctor do surprise blood tests? or do you have another specific concern, like does it effect lipid profiles, etc.? quite a few members here including myself have tried it with our weekly test and there are only a few on the protocol you are mentioning but I wouldnt see it doing anything but helping you with gains, possible joint relief as reported by many that have used it in moderate doses...here in the u.s. we do bloodwork pretty much when its convenient for the patient...the doctor may tell you ahead of time we will retest in say 6 weeks, 2 months, etc.

[Ace111]

My FAI was 81 unfortunately (or fortunately?) so my GP thinks I'm in the high range for testosterone even though my total was 9.5 nmol/L (275ng/dl). This is a guy who says he's been to seminars about this stuff but he doesn't know how LH and FSH comes into play with test.

Edit - althor this second doctor who gave you the prescription, was he just a GP or an endocrinologist?

[zaggahamma]

.............

[althor]

Hello Ace111, the doctor was just a GP, as far as I know. I will check out his qualifications soon, I'm buisy at the moment with not much spare time. But I was talking to a lady at work, about having trouble getting a certain medication, didn't say what I was after though. This person recommended to me 3 doctors and the one I saw was the second choice as the first was overseas, People seem to not talk about medical problems with friends and colligues, I understand why. But in my case, was steered in the right direction. The same thing happened to my father. With rashes and PTSD, related problems due to vietnam. Once he resolved the problems he helped many veterans get back to reallity, after 30yrs of hell. There are plenty of doctors out there, they all have there own interperation on what they learned at Uni. Best to hit them with some authentic documentation to back up your arguement if your having trouble. Cheers mate!

[althor]

I am insisting an blood tests when Seeing GP, next visit. To optamise dose. Can get deca , just a bit overwhelmed from searching for info, thaught I might jump the line. Only threw question in as an after thaught before posting thread. Not trying to aviod a lot of hard work to become Awsome, but if it helps.....

[althor]

Ace111! Hi again, my info tells me that the FAI is worked out by. The total testosterone in blood, divided by SHBG. then multiplied by 100. Now my blood test was.
Testosterone- 13.4nmol/L Range (8.0-29.0)
SHBG- 33nmol/L (15-45)
FAI- 41 (35-93)
Free Test- 271.3pmol/L (198-619)

I got my calculator n worked it out myself 13.4 / 33 = 0.4060606060606061

multiplied (*) that by 100. Which came to; 40.60. which looks like the pathollagy lab has rounded up to 41. As they say at Area51 when working out about captured enemy aircraft. I will attempt to reverse engineer your FAI to work out your SHBG, it should go like. 81/100= 0.81, simple, just have to now work out 9.5 / ? = .81, OK I worked it out as 11.7 is that what you've got for your SHBG? That seems very low to me. The path' lab in Perth Western Australia have their range at, (15 - 45).
You have lower levels than me. Havn't done any reaserch on low SHBG. I reccon that you explain to the doctor, how when and if you actually do motivate yourself to go walking, you only go for 5 or 10 minutes and you feel to stuffed to go any further, so you turn around and go home n lay down back in front of the TV or whatever. Maby have a sleep to get over your exertion, tell the doc, how you have trouble getting an erection and when you do after a lot of hard work it goes away before your done. You're having marital or relationship problems. Tell him your embaressed to use a public urinell because your penis is small like you just climbed out of freezing cold water. Also, if you're feeling really desperate and brave. Tell him that you really enjoy anal sex and that if you can get an erection, its to soft to achieve your objective or just goes away again when you try. If your overweight, show the doctor your male mammory glands, your pot-belly, grab your love handles and say, "look at these!", they are all signs of low test, just remember when dealing with doctors, yes they might have went to school a bit longer then your average Joe! But it does not mean that they are better, or more important than anyone elce. I'm sick of people saying "O" I know I've done a course or I've been to a seminar, I've been to Uni. Mostly they only know the opinion of whoever there licturers were. Most are old fashioned, old school. How old are your average doctors? Someone I was talking to about my problems said find a doctor around my age group. Tell them, OK I'm 9.5, if I'm competeing against someone in a physical sport at the olympic games and there 29.5 would you say that that is fair? Honestly, what if you been 19.5 you whole adult life, n now your 9.5 is that normal. Get your blood results, arm your self with some legit' material and see another doctor! So much for a quick reply, my wife has cracked it. Bye. Good luck!

[althor]

Been not much response to this post. If anyone is offended let me know and I suppose I can edit or delete. But hey, "It better to burnout than to fade away"! Tell the doctor what you want, not what do they reccon.

Ace111! Hi again, my info tells me that the FAI is worked out by. The total testosterone in blood, divided by SHBG. then multiplied by 100. Now my blood test was.
Testosterone- 13.4nmol/L Range (8.0-29.0)
SHBG- 33nmol/L (15-45)
FAI- 41 (35-93)
Free Test- 271.3pmol/L (198-619)

I got my calculator n worked it out myself 13.4 / 33 = 0.4060606060606061

multiplied (*) that by 100. Which came to; 40.60. which looks like the pathollagy lab has rounded up to 41. As they say at Area51 when working out about captured enemy aircraft. I will attempt to reverse engineer your FAI to work out your SHBG, it should go like. 81/100= 0.81, simple, just have to now work out 9.5 / ? = .81, OK I worked it out as 11.7 is that what you've got for your SHBG? That seems very low to me. The path' lab in Perth Western Australia have their range at, (15 - 45).
You have lower levels than me. Havn't done any reaserch on low SHBG. I reccon that you explain to the doctor, how when and if you actually do motivate yourself to go walking, you only go for 5 or 10 minutes and you feel to stuffed to go any further, so you turn around and go home n lay down back in front of the TV or whatever. Maby have a sleep to get over your exertion, tell the doc, how you have trouble getting an erection and when you do after a lot of hard work it goes away before your done. You're having marital or relationship problems. Tell him your embaressed to use a public urinell because your penis is small like you just climbed out of freezing cold water. Also, if you're feeling really desperate and brave. Tell him that you really enjoy anal sex and that if you can get an erection, its to soft to achieve your objective or just goes away again when you try. If your overweight, show the doctor your male mammory glands, your pot-belly, grab your love handles and say, "look at these!", they are all signs of low test, just remember when dealing with doctors, yes they might have went to school a bit longer then your average Joe! But it does not mean that they are better, or more important than anyone elce. I'm sick of people saying "O" I know I've done a course or I've been to a seminar, I've been to Uni. Mostly they only know the opinion of whoever there licturers were. Most are old fashioned, old school. How old are your average doctors? Someone I was talking to about my problems said find a doctor around my age group. Tell them, OK I'm 9.5, if I'm competeing against someone in a physical sport at the olympic games and there 29.5 would you say that that is fair? Honestly, what if you been 19.5 you whole adult life, n now your 9.5 is that normal. Get your blood results, arm your self with some legit' material and see another doctor! So much for a quick reply, my wife has cracked it. Bye. Good luck!

[Ace111]

Ace111! Hi again, my info tells me that the FAI is worked out by. The total testosterone in blood, divided by SHBG. then multiplied by 100. Now my blood test was.
Testosterone- 13.4nmol/L Range (8.0-29.0)
SHBG- 33nmol/L (15-45)
FAI- 41 (35-93)
Free Test- 271.3pmol/L (198-619)

I got my calculator n worked it out myself 13.4 / 33 = 0.4060606060606061

multiplied (*) that by 100. Which came to; 40.60. which looks like the pathollagy lab has rounded up to 41. As they say at Area51 when working out about captured enemy aircraft. I will attempt to reverse engineer your FAI to work out your SHBG, it should go like. 81/100= 0.81, simple, just have to now work out 9.5 / ? = .81, OK I worked it out as 11.7 is that what you've got for your SHBG? That seems very low to me. The path' lab in Perth Western Australia have their range at, (15 - 45).
You have lower levels than me. Havn't done any reaserch on low SHBG. I reccon that you explain to the doctor, how when and if you actually do motivate yourself to go walking, you only go for 5 or 10 minutes and you feel to stuffed to go any further, so you turn around and go home n lay down back in front of the TV or whatever. Maby have a sleep to get over your exertion, tell the doc, how you have trouble getting an erection and when you do after a lot of hard work it goes away before your done. You're having marital or relationship problems. Tell him your embaressed to use a public urinell because your penis is small like you just climbed out of freezing cold water. Also, if you're feeling really desperate and brave. Tell him that you really enjoy anal sex and that if you can get an erection, its to soft to achieve your objective or just goes away again when you try. If your overweight, show the doctor your male mammory glands, your pot-belly, grab your love handles and say, "look at these!", they are all signs of low test, just remember when dealing with doctors, yes they might have went to school a bit longer then your average Joe! But it does not mean that they are better, or more important than anyone elce. I'm sick of people saying "O" I know I've done a course or I've been to a seminar, I've been to Uni. Mostly they only know the opinion of whoever there licturers were. Most are old fashioned, old school. How old are your average doctors? Someone I was talking to about my problems said find a doctor around my age group. Tell them, OK I'm 9.5, if I'm competeing against someone in a physical sport at the olympic games and there 29.5 would you say that that is fair? Honestly, what if you been 19.5 you whole adult life, n now your 9.5 is that normal. Get your blood results, arm your self with some legit' material and see another doctor! So much for a quick reply, my wife has cracked it. Bye. Good luck!

It took me a while to actually figure out how they got the FAI number because of some misinformation from the GP, but I worked it out a week or two ago. My SHBG is 12, range they use is 10-73. From what I understand, the lower it is the better as it leaves more of your testosterone free. But because my total T is 9.5 (9.7 the first time when the FAI was worked out), the testosterone which is left as free is only a much smaller amount than any normal person would have.

I'm going to have to write down all my symptoms so I don't forget for when I have my endo appointment. But because so far my results have been considered 'normal', they might try to pin it strictly as a psychological disorder. The thing is I've been like this since my teenage years and now I'm 25.

Ha maybe I'll use some of your examples if they don't listen to me

[althor]

Good on ya mate, I'm not a knowledgeable member but if I've helped in anyway great, The experiance of test for me was, have you used a battery drill? If you have imagine drilling a big 4 or 5 inch wood screw into a piece of hard timber. It goes, one third of the way but just will not go any further. Then get a 14 or 18volt drill, it just does it with no effort at all, that is what its like doing exercise, you can do more and its easier. AWSOME!

Keep me posted on how you go.

It took me a while to actually figure out how they got the FAI number because of some misinformation from the GP, but I worked it out a week or two ago. My SHBG is 12, range they use is 10-73. From what I understand, the lower it is the better as it leaves more of your testosterone free. But because my total T is 9.5 (9.7 the first time when the FAI was worked out), the testosterone which is left as free is only a much smaller amount than any normal person would have.

I'm going to have to write down all my symptoms so I don't forget for when I have my endo appointment. But because so far my results have been considered 'normal', they might try to pin it strictly as a psychological disorder. The thing is I've been like this since my teenage years and now I'm 25.

Ha maybe I'll use some of your examples if they don't listen to me

[althor]

I converted my weight- 94kg=207lb. 86kg= 189.5lb. Lost about 18lb.

Only done a small amount of research on deca. Not much info on reandron 1000, as only a new product from what I can tell. Only got the data sheet, with clinical trials, based on a 6 weekly injection trial over a 168 day period. There are 2 other trials over a longer period between injections, as 6 weeks caused accumulation of testerone. Anyhow, its testerone undecanoate and each ampoule contains 1000 mg testerone in a 4 ml solution for injection. The data sheet said that it has a half life of 90 days and that repeat injections should be between 10 n 14 weeks depending on test levels. But second dose can be 9 weeks but no earlier then 6 weeks to get to good levels sooner. I,ve been told to go back in 12 weeks, but armed with my data sheet I might drop back in 9 weeks. Over here in Aus' the injections have to be given buy the doctor. Later I'll get the web address, for the data sheet or post a link. Still working out how these forums work. OK burning access weight. I' ve always been lean not sure in pounds but weighing in around 75 kg. last 4 years had a job with not much physical activity, did try to put on a few lbs by eating heaps, wanted to get to 85 kg. But jumped the mark by 9 kilos made it to 94kg instead. Went up a size with clothing. Podgy gut with good to grab love handles, the wife was complaining and the kids were giving me a hard time to. The wife got testogel for low lobido. So I helped myself to some, hey, it was like before that I was a bearly animated corpse. I started walking 1.5 to 2 hours a day and on my guard post there is 2 bars just perfect for doing dips, I would do between 40 to 120 dips in an hour depending on how much traffic there was. At another gate I manned there was a perfect chin up bar or heaves if you like, combined with sets of 50 reps of press-ups push-ups, also with 10 mins of walking occasionally for recovery. End up doing 400 to 500 push-ups in a 12 hour shift and about 120 to 150 chin-ups. About 6 weeks ago I descovered resistance bands I use 80lb 100lb n 120lb bands but if I double them up keep on breaking the plastic handles. I've been on RD1000 for 4 weeks used testogel for 6 weeks before that, I've lost 8 kilograms down to 86 kg not quite cut but had 2 weeks break over the festive season. I see so many over-wieght guys at work and I can guess what the problem usually is. But the doctors down here would rather people die of weight related problems then prescribe testerone. Hope I wasn't to much of a drag.