Are there TRT members that are not using

[9second69]

and AI or HCG ? or is this a must in TRT?

[zaggahamma]

yes, no...but

would you rather have the vette with the leather seats and twin turbo engine


or cloth seats and stock engine


read more posts including stickies


welcome and good luck

[Times Roman]

neither, and my panels seem to be fine

[steroid.com 1]

It depends, most men on gel/cream generally don't need an AI and hCG is an option.

IM users will go into some level of HPTA suppression so hCG can be used. Also, if not blessed with an incredible liver they will need an AI to suppress aromatization.

[HRTstudent]

Lots of people don't NEED an AI.

If you don't need an AI then there is absolutely no reason to take one. Males absolutely need a healthy level of estradiol. This is a medical fact, and driving estradiol too low is a bad thing.

As for HCG , again, not everyone uses it. In fact, I would say that probably most people do not use HCG that are on TRT.

Not everyone notices the subjective benefit that is associated with HCG. Again, if you don't benefit from it, don't need it, then why take it? The only way, I tihnk, to know if HCG will really improve your personal quality of life is to get your T level straightened out then add in HCG and figure it out from there.

[steroid.com 1]

Lots of people don't NEED an AI.

If you don't need an AI then there is absolutely no reason to take one. Males absolutely need a healthy level of estradiol. This is a medical fact, and driving estradiol too low is a bad thing.

As for HCG , again, not everyone uses it. In fact, I would say that probably most people do not use HCG that are on TRT.

Not everyone notices the subjective benefit that is associated with HCG. Again, if you don't benefit from it, don't need it, then why take it? The only way, I tihnk, to know if HCG will really improve your personal quality of life is to get your T level straightened out then add in HCG and figure it out from there.

Really?

[JohnnyVegas]

I do not require an AI despite a TRT dose of 200mg/week. This isn't based on feeling, it is backed up by low E2 scores on my blood work.

I take HCG and I get atrophy without it. That puts it on my "must have" list.

Everyone is different, and your use of an AI or HCG should be based on your body's response to your protocol.

[FONZY007]

I do not require an AI despite a TRT dose of 200mg/week. This isn't based on feeling, it is backed up by low E2 scores on my blood work.

I take HCG and I get atrophy without it. That puts it on my "must have" list.

Everyone is different, and your use of an AI or HCG should be based on your body's response to your protocol.

200mg a week , where does that put you for free test?

[FONZY007]

I'm not using either also, but was using an AI but stopped to see how bw shows and will post up for another thread

[JohnnyVegas]

200mg a week , where does that put you for free test?

Total: 633 (Range 292-867)
Free: 20.4 (Range 4.8 - 25)

I just noticed my "sex horm bind globulin" is the only thing out of range. It is actually low...but I have not idea what that means.

[gearbox]

Total: 633 (Range 292-867)
Free: 20.4 (Range 4.8 - 25)

I just noticed my "sex horm bind globulin" is the only thing out of range. It is actually low...but I have not idea what that means.

does your liver work up look good?

[flatscat]

It depends, most men on gel/cream generally don't need an AI and hCG is an option.

IM users will go into some level of HPTA suppression so hCG can be used. Also, if not blessed with an incredible liver they will need an AI to suppress aromatization.

Gd,

I know you didn't mean to do this, but your wording here may lead some to think one does not go into hpta shut down when using cream and gels.

Nice thread guys. I use both - very little adex, but at least 750/week of hcg because i want to, by no means do i have to.

[FONZY007]

Looks good Johnny, but like gear said when I was at 200mg a week my liver enzymes where up, currently I'm at 120mg a week and in normal ranges

[zaggahamma]

most ppl on gels we prolly dont even know about because their just regular joe schmoes that would never question their doctor and see the lowT old fart on the commercials who used to play 18 with his buddies or dance the night a way

[HRTstudent]

Really?

Really

[HRTstudent]

most ppl on gels we prolly dont even know about because their just regular joe schmoes that would never question their doctor and see the lowT old fart on the commercials who used to play 18 with his buddies or dance the night a way

You're absolutely right.

The amount of people who actually post on forums about their experiences are probably very miniscule. Just like you said, I imagine most people simply take their gels, monitor their Total T, and they get the subjective benefit from it so it's all good.

[steroid.com 1]

Really

Back it up man

[steroid.com 1]

Gd,

I know you didn't mean to do this, but your wording here may lead some to think one does not go into hpta shut down when using cream and gels.

Nice thread guys. I use both - very little adex, but at least 750/week of hcg because i want to, by no means do i have to.

Thanks bro; any exogenous testosterone can/will cause HPTA suppression.

[JohnnyVegas]

does your liver work up look good?

Yup, everything is good. Just had a ton of blood work done actually.

[Gym_]

HRT So far no Ai and No HCG but early days and monitoring

[bass]

Lots of people don't NEED an AI.

If you don't need an AI then there is absolutely no reason to take one. Males absolutely need a healthy level of estradiol. This is a medical fact, and driving estradiol too low is a bad thing.

As for HCG , again, not everyone uses it. In fact, I would say that probably most people do not use HCG that are on TRT.

Not everyone notices the subjective benefit that is associated with HCG. Again, if you don't benefit from it, don't need it, then why take it? The only way, I tihnk, to know if HCG will really improve your personal quality of life is to get your T level straightened out then add in HCG and figure it out from there.

i respectfully disagree, most people i know including members here are on AI's, there are only 2 or 3 members not on AI by choice, and the rest because their doc doesn't believe in it. my clinic said 1 out of 100 clients don't require AI.

[flatscat]

i respectfully disagree, most people i know including members here are on AI's, there are only 2 or 3 members not on AI by choice, and the rest because their doc doesn't believe in it. my clinic said 1 out of 100 clients don't require AI.

And i disagree with this. There is a high percentage of guys on cycle that don't take an ai while their t levels are way higher than ours. The guys that are prone to gyno at those levels will be prone at trt levels as well.

What ever happened to considering the t to e ratio? we used to talk about that.

[JohnnyVegas]

What ever happened to considering the t to e ratio? we used to talk about that.

I have never seen that discussion. How does that work?

i respectfully disagree, most people i know including members here are on AI's, there are only 2 or 3 members not on AI by choice, and the rest because their doc doesn't believe in it. my clinic said 1 out of 100 clients don't require AI.

It took me a while to realize I was one of the only guys here not on an AI. My E2 stays stubbornly low which is a good thing, but apparently rare.

[zaggahamma]

once again...the ppl that post on here or that we know dont represent the majority on trt and how many docs do you think are writing scripts of arimidex

[J DIESEL3]

I don't use HCG or any AI with my trt.My e2 levels when I get bw are from 27 to 31.

I also have a doctor that will not give me a script for any HCG or AI.My trt is 50mg every 3.5 days and I feel really good.Now if I go over 60mg every 3.5 days my e2 is not in a good range for me and I don't feel or look well.

A few months back I did get my hands on a bottle of HCG. I used the HCG at 250iu 2 times a week until it was finished.

[JohnnyVegas]

once again...the ppl that post on here or that we know dont represent the majority on trt and how many docs do you think are writing scripts of arimidex

This makes sense. My father in law was put on the cream a few weeks ago. No AI or HCG . The doctor didn't even discuss those things with him.

[HRTstudent]

Back it up man

Aside from what others have already said... there is no way to back it up other than examples of plenty of people who use no AI.

But, this is about as close to proof as you can probably get. Dr Crisler, a person who almost exclusively (exclusively?) deals with HRT patients:

My TRT male patients who suffer E2 elevations above the top of normal range are placed on between 0.25 and 0.5mg Arimidex every one to third day, depending upon the specific situation.

Do note that it is not inclusive of all his patients, just the ones who get high estradiol.

[yannick35]

This makes sense. My father in law was put on the cream a few weeks ago. No AI or HCG. The doctor didn't even discuss those things with him.

So far i saw 2 medical doctor who love to brag about putting people on testosterone for many years, you are 100% right they don't believe in AI and they also give you your start dosage base on your weight.

This time around the guy wanted to give me 200mg once per month......... all i can say is WOW.

I still have some letro left, and got some armidex now, that i use if i see sides popping out. Since injecting twice a week 50mg each time i feel a lot better, no more water retention, no more acne no more sore nipples. I guess i am better on my own then with theses idiot medical doctors.

[J DIESEL3]

This makes sense. My father in law was put on the cream a few weeks ago. No AI or HCG. The doctor didn't even discuss those things with him.

Funny u posted this Johnny V, I just found out last month my uncle was on t gel for 5 years now.I asked him about HCG and if he was taking a AI and he looked at me like I was nuts!Oh and the kicker was when I asked him what his estrogen numbers were like and the guy had noooo idea what I was talkin about!

[flatscat]

I have never seen that discussion. How does that work?

It took me a while to realize I was one of the only guys here not on an AI. My E2 stays stubbornly low which is a good thing, but apparently rare.

It is pretty interesting Jv. Look it up and you will find a lot on it.

It looks like amost all the bad things that happen with above normal e2 levels are associated with low t.

Maybe what we have been missing here.

Initially my thoughts about it is that it makes sense. I would like to see more comments about it.

[zaggahamma]

isnt the t to e ratio get your e2 to 23 and all is well?

[kelkel]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n-cycle-Swifto

Just wanted to re-post the above as TRT is a continuous low-dose cycle.....and it may be of interest to some.

I don't think anyone can catagorically say you should or shouldn't. It's all based on the individuals bloodwork, right?

[Vettester]

yes, no...but

would you rather have the vette with the leather seats and twin turbo engine

Does having the supercharger count?

[JD250]

Don't you guys base your protocol on bloodwork? I know some cant afford bloodwork and start taking an AI when signs of high e2 present but we can't withstand every single variable for every single person in a discussion like this.......if you have high e2 you need to look at ALL the other numbers too and decide how to lower it, maybe a lower dose or a more frequent dose but how can you even have a discussion about who should or should not, does or does not need an AI without bloodwork. HCG I guess you can see if it benefits you and make a decision.

[HRTstudent]

For the most part, I think most people probably don't get onto an AI unless they actually have symptoms of high estradiol. That's certainly not the case on forums like these... because we all insist to eachother on getting full bloodwork. And that is probably just because we have all come to the forums to educate ourselves and likely we are not the usual patient who requires little troubleshooting beyond "2 pumps or 4 pumps?"

TRT is really, first and foremost, a "feel" type of therapy. It goes against all this lab stuff in a way, but every expert out there starts their questioning with "How do you feel?"

Now, I imagine many a good doc would get an estradiol reading just for safety sake, but if it's above normal and the patient feels good they probably won't implement the AI unless the patient wants to.

[JohnnyVegas]

For the most part, I think most people probably don't get onto an AI unless they actually have symptoms of high estradiol. That's certainly not the case on forums like these... because we all insist to eachother on getting full bloodwork. And that is probably just because we have all come to the forums to educate ourselves and likely we are not the usual patient who requires little troubleshooting beyond "2 pumps or 4 pumps?"

TRT is really, first and foremost, a "feel" type of therapy. It goes against all this lab stuff in a way, but every expert out there starts their questioning with "How do you feel?"

Now, I imagine many a good doc would get an estradiol reading just for safety sake, but if it's above normal and the patient feels good they probably won't implement the AI unless the patient wants to.

I am glad my doc doesn't base much on how I feel. I have blood drawn and when the tests come back he tells me how I am doing on paper. The last thing he does is ask how I am feeling.

[JD250]

Well, I admit that I adjust according to how I feel sometimes but to start out and within a couple months a person SHOULD get blood work. A new patient should start slow or at no AI and see where it goes. Sometimes on these forums we DO have a tendency to follow a "rule of thumb" but I think we try to be careful and keep each other accountable for advice that gets handed out around here and remember that we are all different.

[D7M]

Nope, no HCG or AI for me on my TRT dose.

(Cruising doses are different...need an AI then

[HRTstudent]

I am glad my doc doesn't base much on how I feel. I have blood drawn and when the tests come back he tells me how I am doing on paper. The last thing he does is ask how I am feeling.

Well for your sake I hope you feel good lol

[zaggahamma]

Lol..