Considering trying a Clomid restart prior to TRT

[Simon1972]

try going to an endo ren. ive been researching aromasin instead of clomid and from what i read its a better drug- less sides and more positive results- im leaning towards aromasin now.

[DVC]

try going to an endo ren. ive been researching aromasin instead of clomid and from what i read its a better drug- less sides and more positive results- im leaning towards aromasin now.

Better as far as a restart "sticking" - or long term, low dose use?

Please share some specifics on your research. Thanks!

[HRTstudent]

try going to an endo ren. ive been researching aromasin instead of clomid and from what i read its a better drug- less sides and more positive results- im leaning towards aromasin now.

they are a different type of drug so... you could certainly try one and if it doesn't work try the other. plenty of people use both, but clomid is probably just the most studied in men because it's been used in fertility for a while now.

[HRTstudent]

Better as far as a restart "sticking" - or long term, low dose use?

Please share some specifics on your research. Thanks!

I was reading something the other day from a urologist and he said the max he uses clomid I believe is 3 years. we don't have the long term safety studies, and also, the primary reason is to conceive so you would obviously know if clomid works in that time frame.

there are some long term sides of clomid that we can't just brush over that we actually know about - like eye floaters.

[Simon1972]

Better as far as a restart "sticking" - or long term, low dose use?

Please share some specifics on your research. Thanks!

Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males

Nelly Mauras, John Lima, Deval Patel, Annie Rini, Enrico di Salle, Ambrose Kwok and Barbara Lippe

Nemours Children’s Clinic and Research Programs (N.M., J.L., A.R.), Jacksonville, Florida 32207; and University of Florida Health Sciences Center (D.P.) and Amersham Pharmacia Biotech (E.d.S., A.K., B.L.), Peapack, New Jersey 07977


Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane (Aromasin) is a potent and selective irreversible aromatase inhibitor. To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects (14–26 yr of age) were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mg exemestane daily, orally, for 10 d with a 14-d washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 h after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed (n = 10) using a 25-mg dose. Exemestane suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38% (P 0.002); 50 mg, 32% (P 0.008)], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; P 0.003 for both). Plasma lipids and IGF-I concentrations were unaffected by treatment. The PK properties of the 25-mg dose showed the highest exemestane concentrations 1 h after administration, indicating rapid absorption. The terminal half-life was 8.9 h. Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 ± 14% was observed at 12 h. The drug was well tolerated. In conclusion, exemestane is a potent aromatase inhibitor in men and an alternative to the choice of available inhibitors. Long-term efficacy and safety will need further study.


Abbreviations: AUC, Area under the curve; CBC, cell blood count; HDL, high density lipoprotein; LDL, low density lipoprotein; PK, pharmacokinetic.

[DVC]

Simon1972

What are your E2 levels?

Mine were pretty low before I started the clomid: Estradiol 10.0 pg/mL range 7.6-42.6

[Simon1972]

Simon1972

What are your E2 levels?

Mine were pretty low before I started the clomid: Estradiol 10.0 pg/mL range 7.6-42.6

OESTRADIOL-----------96pmol/L---------<150

translates to 26.10 pg/mol ----range less than 40

[DVC]

Getting blood work tomorrow - TT, FT, E2, FSH, LH, DHEA (just cuz it came with the package) and shbg. I'll post when I get the results.

[DVC]

Blood work results - been on clomid for approx 3 weeks.

Protocol: 25 mg ED for one week (felt like hell) - switched to 12.5 mg ed (still having sides)

Test, Serum 585 (previous 318) ng/dL range 348-1197
Free Testosterone (Direct) 16.8 (previous 8.3) pg/mL range 6.8-21.5
DHEA-Sulfate 183.4 (previous 112.6) ug/dL range 44.3-331.0
Estradiol 30.7 (previous 10.0) pg/mL range 7.6-42.6
FSH 4.4 (previous 3.2) mIU/mL normal range 1.5-12.4 MB
LH 6.4 (previous 4.0) mIU/mL normal range 1.7-8.6 MB
SHBG 33.2 (not previously tested) range – 16.5 – 55.9

So, what can I/we glean from this data?
* I'm secondary instead of primary.
* A relatively small dose increased my free test by 2x and total T by over 267 points.
* E2 tripled.
* Even at this low dose, I still feel generally bad, not myself and low libido. I can't stand how cloimd makes me feel. Wife thinks I don't like her anymore.
* Big question: how much longer on clomid and will it "stick"?

Your thoughts please . . .

[ecdysone]

The irony, heh? On paper your levels are near perfect, yet you don't feel good.

Can't say I haven't heard it before: for some reason clomid/HCG therapy often does not produce a good feeling even though
otherwise everything looks great.

Were it me, I would try three things: (1) give it more time; (2) think about reducing the dose slightly, and (3) remember to get some labs in a couple of months to see if your elevated test levels hold.

[DVC]

The irony, heh? On paper your levels are near perfect, yet you don't feel good.

Can't say I haven't heard it before: for some reason clomid/HCG therapy often does not produce a good feeling even though
otherwise everything looks great.

Agreed - and feeling bad is OK if this actually restarts my hpta. If it doesn't "stick" then I guess I know I'm secondary - for whatever that's worth . . .

[ecdysone]

Oh sorry, I missed the part about you doing a "restart." I just assumed you were anticipating staying on the clomid for good.

My point about checking the test levels in a couple of months was also assuming you would still be using clomid. For some guys, the test levels will drop even though they are still taking clomid and/or HCG .

[DVC]

Oh sorry, I missed the part about you doing a "restart." I just assumed you were anticipating staying on the clomid for good.

No way is that going to happen!! I hate this stuff.

[Simon1972]

No way is that going to happen!! I hate this stuff.

looks like estro has risen a fair bit.

clomid wont lower estrogen in your body, aromastase still occurs, it just prevents it from binding with receptors in the Hypathalamus.

aromasin is different, it prevents estrogen being manufactured in your body in the first place, aromasin does this by binding with the aromatase enzyme preventing estrogen being made.

if you are suffering major sides with clomid- i would say aromasin would be a better way of restarting. clomid is an old drug, aromasin is newer and has hardly any sides- cut your loses and but the liquid stane ( exemestane / aromasin) take it at 25mg or 12.5 mg a day depending how you feel.

i just ordered a bottle and hopefully get it in a week or so. and will wait until july to try it ( dont want to do anything before i see my endocrinologist in case it interferes with my test results)

[Facecrash]

Any update on this DVC?

[DVC]

Update:

I've been off of clomid for 9 weeks and had my Test tested.

# are in this order: (1) Pre-Clomid, (2) 3 weeks into Clomid, (3) 9 weeks post Clomid, and Normal Range


Test - total 318 585 499 348-1197
Test - free 8.3 16.8 13.6 6.8-21.5
E2 10.0 30.7 22.3 7.6-42.6



I feel good. Test is not as high as I'd like it to be, but not too bad. I'd like to be 550 +. I get this # from this article: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2012/...roversy_01.htm

Any general thoughts welcomed.

Could the Clomid still be effecting my Test levels?

[bass]

not after 9 weeks, but your levels will go down as you age anyway, in other words they won't go higher, only lower. glad you're feeling good. keep us posted.

[louie2400]

Any updates DVC? I just started clomid yesterday (25 mg EOD) and am interested where you are at right now regarding levels and how you are feeling.

[DVC]

Any updates DVC? I just started clomid yesterday (25 mg EOD) and am interested where you are at right now regarding levels and how you are feeling.

I actually started TRT about 5 weeks ago and feel awesome. A cardiac surgeon in my area recently started a side practice in the TRT area. He's very knowledgeable IMO. http://www.agewellmensinstitute.com/index.php

[louie2400]

DVC-
Great to hear that you are feeling awesome! What did you and your doctor decide on as far as TRT?

[DVC]

DVC-
Great to hear that you are feeling awesome! What did you and your doctor decide on as far as TRT?

Test Cyp, HCG and an AI - once per week.

[jasondd1]

I'm curious I am starting week 3 of 25 mg clomid eod. Did compounding test cream for 3 months and went from 323-409. Joints ached estradiol super low at 8 but actually felt better. Feel pretty good but have noticed my libido less and difficult to cum, not get hard just climax. My question is is there any benefit in adding in nolva, HCG , or aromasin ? I am going to retest in another 3-4 weeks but was curious if a combo would be beneficial or ever detrimental? I tried Cabergoline for cumming and it seemed to do nothing, does ths need to be taken for a while to be effective. I had heard it did not and after taking it one day I quit.

[louie2400]

@DVC- I now see what you mean by hating the sides of clomid. I too stopped taking it. It made me feel way too depressed. How is the androgel working out? How many pumps are you on?

[powerlifterty16]

any update