Need some help with my test results and Endo..

[DanMan250]

Nice to hear brother. Feeling sleepy on HCG is not uncommon. Looking forward to seeing ur BW in a couple of weeks.

[johnyz333]

Nice to hear brother. Feeling sleepy on HCG is not uncommon. Looking forward to seeing ur BW in a couple of weeks.

Cheers bud. I got those supps that we spoke about also.

[kelkel]

Johnyz so what is the plan when the HCG protocol is done? Ride it out a bit and then BW to see if it maintains?

[steroid.com 1]

Just a quick update; 2 weeks since I started HCG and I'm feeling quite good. My libido is at an all time high, my attitude and mood has been really great. I do however get really tired from time to time, particularly during the day.


Looking forward to do BW in a couple of weeks time and seeing the doc again. Will post up BW once done.

When you get your blood work done please be sure to ask for a Cortisol panel. High and low levels can cause this type of tiredness particularly during the day even after a good nights sleep.

[johnyz333]

Johnyz so what is the plan when the HCG protocol is done? Ride it out a bit and then BW to see if it maintains?

Kel as per my docs instructions, he wants me to take HCG until my wife falls pregnant then depending on how I'm going, continue with HCG and or test. When I discussed an end date with him, he said atleast 12 to 18 months before u can taper off, but ultimately will prob need to continue TRT forever. He did say that it's just speculation at this stage but the likely scenario given how bad my test levels are at my age. He wants to see me every 6 weeks with BW. I'm due to see him next in under 3 weeks. I definitely feel better Kel, my general well being is night and day vs pre hrt, as is my libido.

When you get your blood work done please be sure to ask for a Cortisol panel. High and low levels can cause this type of tiredness particularly during the day even after a good nights sleep.

Will do GD, it definately something I have noticed particularly the day after a injection.

Cheers guys.

[steroid.com 1]

Johny - If you plan on TRT for the rest of your life you will need hCG as part of your ongoing protocol.

If you haven't yet, read the sticky at the top of the forum on why men need hCG when on a TRT protocol.

Good on the Cortisol panel...sometimes it can be lowered on TRT and some effects of adrenal fatigue can be had...it's not common but it can happen. Stress can also do the exact same thing so if it's a stressful time in your life right now this could very well be the reason.

Cortisol is a good one to get checked on all of your future BW while on TRT.

From my perspective, I've never read where hCG can cause tiredness or fatigue...on the contrary it makes many men feel a heightened sense of well being and a tad bit of euphoria when they first start...some think it has some type of neuro effect. I remember when I first stated and the feeling was great and so was libido! It's a great peptide for so many reasons.

[johnyz333]

Johny - If you plan on TRT for the rest of your life you will need hCG as part of your ongoing protocol.

If you haven't yet, read the sticky at the top of the forum on why men need hCG when on a TRT protocol.

Good on the Cortisol panel...sometimes it can be lowered on TRT and some effects of adrenal fatigue can be had...it's not common but it can happen. Stress can also do the exact same thing so if it's a stressful time in your life right now this could very well be the reason.

Cortisol is a good one to get checked on all of your future BW while on TRT.

From my perspective, I've never read where hCG can cause tiredness or fatigue...on the contrary it makes many men feel a heightened sense of well being and a tad bit of euphoria when they first start...some think it has some type of neuro effect. I remember when I first stated and the feeling was great and so was libido! It's a great peptide for so many reasons.

Thanks GD, I can relate to that feeling of euphoria after the first injection. For the most part I feel quite good, apart from occasionally feeling fatigued. I am keeping a daily log and will share with the doc this month.

Question, do you really think that it is just a myth that test will limit the ability to conceive? My doc wanted to prescribe test with hcg but I was reluctant to take the test as I don't want to hinder our chances of conceiving...

[johnyz333]

My e2 levels I suspect are somewhat high as I'm getting a lump forming behind each nipple. It's quite tender too touch aswell.

I spoke to my doc and he has sent me for BW today. He confirmed to me that if the result come back high he will subscribe either nolva or Arimadex.

Which of the 2 would I be better of getting to take with the HCG ?

[johnyz333]

Had my BW done the other day and my doc rang me today to quickly go over some of the results. My dr is interstate so I will be discussing the results in depth when I see him in a fortnight.

As mentioned in my previous post I was getting a lump behind my nipple which was a sure sign of gyno developing. Well my BW came back and sure enough my E2 levels were high;

157 nmol (<150)

The doc prescribed some Arimadex for me immediately. 1 mg twice a week for first week, then 0.5 mg twice a week. I have been doing some research an I'm wondering if I need a SERM like nolva aswell to help reduce/reverse the lump?

I should mention I had a lump years back when I was taking a cycle and took some nolva at the time and it went away after a couple of days.

The dr also shared my test levels and SHBG

Test: 15 (8-32) Up from 3.6
SHBG: 20 nmol (15-50) Up from 11

So im quite pleased with my numbers above, apart from my E2 levels of course. Will have the rest of my BW when I catch up with the doc in a fortnight.

[kelkel]

Glad your doing better johnyz! Your doc seems relatively adept with the adex. Front-loading (not uncommon) then a reduction. Make sure you get your E2 tested monthly for a few months in a row if possible to get it dialed in. When it comes to nolva and lumps, yes it can help and yes you can run it simultaneously. If the lump is not fibrous you have a good chance of helping it with nolva.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/1/15.full

[johnyz333]

Glad your doing better johnyz! Your doc seems relatively adept with the adex. Front-loading (not uncommon) then a reduction. Make sure you get your E2 tested monthly for a few months in a row if possible to get it dialed in. When it comes to nolva and lumps, yes it can help and yes you can run it simultaneously. If the lump is not fibrous you have a good chance of helping it with nolva.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/1/15.full

Thanks Kel, I wouldn't feel or be where I am today if it wasn't for you guys! Again much appreciated.

Interesting read. I have some tamoxifen on hand and will give it ago. Is 20 mg of tamoxifen for first five days then 10mg for next five a good starting point?

[kelkel]

Personally, I'd stick with the 20. It won't hurt you. It may take some time to see results. It took time to develope it, right!

[johnyz333]

Personally, I'd stick with the 20. It won't hurt you. It may take some time to see results. It took time to develope it, right!

Right. Ok will do, thanks Kel.

[johnyz333]

It's been a week now and I have been taking nolva @ 20mg ED, and Arimadex @ 1mg twice a week.

The lump behind my nipple is still there, although it is not as tender to touch anymore. The size is still the same.

Should I bump the nolva up to 40mg ED? I have also been reading that nolva affects the potency of Arimadex by 27% when taken together. Should I be concerned about this?

The Arimadex from here on in will be 0.5mg twice a week.

As for how I feel... Quite good actually. My libido since the adex has been the best ever. My morning wood is amazing! Lol not used to waking up like that... I do find my energy levels are fluctuating...

I'm due to see the doc again this coming Friday.

[xtitan1]

Glad to hear you have improving symptoms! I'll leave the answering of your questions to someone who knows the answer!

[johnyz333]

Glad to hear you have improving symptoms! I'll leave the answering of your questions to someone who knows the answer!

Thanks mate....

[kelkel]

Johnyz, you are correct, it can affect it potency. I won't hurt you to bump it up short term. Also, read this thread regarding a newer tactic in treatment:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d-DHT-for-gyno

Appears sound in theory.

[johnyz333]

Johnyz, you are correct, it can affect it potency. I won't hurt you to bump it up short term. Also, read this thread regarding a newer tactic in treatment:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d-DHT-for-gyno

Appears sound in theory.

Very interesting indeed. May discuss it with my doc on Friday.

From what I have read letro is a last resort but definately the most effective way. Is letro something that a dr will prescribe for gyno?

[kelkel]

Head over to the AAS forum and read the sticky threads related to gyno. Good reads.

Actually, here you go: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...now-about-GYNO.

[johnyz333]

Just a quick update;

I think im finally dialed in, feeling really good these last 3 weeks. Due for some blood work next week, so hoping the numbers confirm what I'm feeling.

Protocol is still the same; HCG 1500iu 3 times weekly & 0.5mg adex twice weekly.

Doc wants to prescribe some test along with HCG but I'm holding off until the wife falls pregnant. Don't want to take any chances.

It's been 2 months since I started the HCG @ 1500iu 3 times weekly, understanding that is a relatively high dosage, do I have anything to be concerned about if I continue on this dosage for another few months? (dependent on wife getting pregos)

My doc has no desire to lower dosage until I can mix a test into my protocol....

All that aside feeling really good, and again special thanks for all those that have helped me come this far...

[Vettester]

If you want pregnancy, why not go with HMG? Adding the FSH/LH combination will promote a better rate of spermatogenesis, as opposed to HCG , which only provides the LH analogue, which is the primary hormone signal for testosterone production.

I didn't read through the first part of your thread, but maybe you already addressed this ...

Also, FYI on the addition of exogenous test ... All that would do is increase your serum level. It would not affect your chances any better or any worse than where you're at right now, UNLESS you modify your HCG protocol. Essentially, exogenous test doesn't mitigate the potency of HCG. For the meantime though, I would run the labs first and see just how effective the HCG is with your endogenous serum production.

[johnyz333]

If you want pregnancy, why not go with HMG? Adding the FSH/LH combination will promote a better rate of spermatogenesis, as opposed to HCG , which only provides the LH analogue, which is the primary hormone signal for testosterone production.

I didn't read through the first part of your thread, but maybe you already addressed this ...

Also, FYI on the addition of exogenous test ... All that would do is increase your serum level. It would not affect your chances any better or any worse than where you're at right now, UNLESS you modify your HCG protocol. Essentially, exogenous test doesn't mitigate the potency of HCG. For the meantime though, I would run the labs first and see just how effective the HCG is with your endogenous serum production.

Thanks for the reply Vett.

HMG is new to me, I will def ask the doc about it. So I can take in conjunction with the HCG?

Apologies, but still trying to get my head around HRT, so what your saying is if I maintain my current HCG protocol and add a test it won't increase or decrease my chances of having kids?

I ran labs about 5 weeks back and my test levels had increased from 3.4nmol to 15.7nmol as a result of about 4-5 weeks of HCG. My E2 levels were through the roof also though, so I started the adex. I def feel better now than I did the last time I had my BW so I'm guessing my test levels have increased even further.

[Vettester]

Thanks for the reply Vett. Glad to help

HMG is new to me, I will def ask the doc about it. So I can take in conjunction with the HCG ? Hopefully he will be up to speed on it. You can Google, "Human Menopausal Gonadotropin" and review it a bit before talking to him. He's familiar with HCG, so he knows it provides you the LH signal. HMG will provide BOTH LH & FSH analogues, and he will know that your chances are much greater to achieve spermatogenesis by including FSH.

Apologies, but still trying to get my head around HRT, so what your saying is if I maintain my current HCG protocol and add a test it won't increase or decrease my chances of having kids? That is correct. Adding test will just further increase your testosterone serum level beyond what you're getting with the HCG. The testicles respond to LH, regardless if it comes from the brain or HCG. The problem is though, your serum level might be way up there with your 1,500iu x 3/wk of HCG protocol. No need to add testosterone if your levels are already elevated. Again, get your labs and post them, then you can make that assessment

I ran labs about 5 weeks back and my test levels had increased from 3.4nmol to 15.7nmol as a result of about 4-5 weeks of HCG. My E2 levels were through the roof also though, so I started the adex. I def feel better now than I did the last time I had my BW so I'm guessing my test levels have increased even further. 15.7nmol translates to 452ng/dl. In the scheme of things, that's not all that high, but not in the tank either. Glad you got a handle on your E2, and there is indeed a tendency to see an increase with the conversion of T to E. Let's see where it's sits and go from there. Talk with your doctor and see what he thinks.

See the bolds above ^^

[johnyz333]

Thanks Vette, much appreciated.

I will get my BW done next week and post results. Seeing doc in 2 weeks and will discuss the above also.