Any reason not to add Nolva or Clomid to TRT plus HCG?

**jasondd1** · 09-13-2012, 09:05 AM

I am on test compound cream plus Progesterone, and 100iu of HCG every day. I have been on trt for 1 month and HCG for 1 week. My wife wants kids and I have some Clomid and Nolva laying around. Could either of these help me with sperm production? Or are they only effective if not on trt for sperm production?

Also, I will be getting blood done in 3 weeks or so and thinking about getting one of these at that time to test my sperm at home http://www.fertilityformen.com/products_micra.php It looks pretty cool, comes with its own microscope for evaluating total sperm, motility, sperm morphology and semen volume. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with one of these at home sperm testers?

**anon77** · 09-13-2012, 09:25 AM

I have read that Nolva basically only stops gyno. Idk how true that is.

Check the sticky regarding HcG at the top. I would think HCG would be enough to preserve sperm count.

**Vettester** · 09-13-2012, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by anon77

I have read that Nolva basically only stops gyno. Idk how true that is.

Check the sticky regarding HcG at the top. I would think HCG would be enough to preserve sperm count.

Not the case ...

OP, look at HMG therapy, which is an exogenous compound providing both the LH & FSH analogue.

**pjbandit** · 09-13-2012, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Vettester

Not the case ...

OP, look at HMG therapy, which is an exogenous compound providing both the LH & FSH analogue.

Vettester, can you provide more info regarding HMG please? Is it sub q like hcg or pill? Legal? Can I get a prescription from doctor?

Hcg not enough to keep fertile?

**Vettester** · 09-13-2012, 01:32 PM

I'm on my phone so I can't do as much as I want here.. Google it for starters and you can learn more. Although HCG can help, it only contains the LH analogue. FSH is needed if you really want to promote spermatogenesis. HMG is a sub q peptide like HCG, and delivers both LH and FSH analogues.

**HRTstudent** · 09-13-2012, 01:45 PM

There are no surefire bets to keep someone or make someone fertile... but that's just medicine and humans for you.

The idea of clomid helping men maintain fertiility is one that we have discussed. It makes sense to me, but these studies have not been done.

There is a drug going through the ringer right now with trials that is an isomer of Clomid, and it is being investigated on whether or not it can maintain fertility in men on TRT. It will not be out for years, if ever.

Right now, if your goal is to conceive then I would say try HCG , clomid, nolva, or AI monotherapy. Wanting to conceive is one of the very few contraindicatinos to starting TRT. Did your doctor talk to you about this?

When do you want to have kids?

**jasondd1** · 09-13-2012, 04:01 PM

Wife and i have been trying for months but she has only ovulated once. She will start on clomid herself if she doesn't ovulate in the next 2 weeks or so. Doc thinks she might have polycystic ovary syndrome. Not insulin related. I found out I had low test 2 months ago and got right on TRT without thinking much about sperm. I mentioned to my doc about a Clomid restart but she said this was better. If i had it to do over again i would probably try the restart first but hey. I know some say that once on trt your sperm are done, I hope they are wrong. I will do complete bloods in like 3 weeks, and i might do the home sperm thing I posted earlier in this thread. http://www.fertilityformen.com/products_micra.php

**Renholder** · 09-13-2012, 04:38 PM

Are you in a hurry?

If I were you, I think I would stick with HCG first, possibly double the doses for a while.

I posted a link to another guy about fertility that contains valuable information, but I`m in a hurry right now, so I can`t dig it up.

**pugster** · 09-14-2012, 01:50 AM

as its already been said hcg mimics LH only so is no good for fertility on its own afaik , clomid on the other hand is used in the UK as a male fertility treatment as it stimulates FSH , a combination of both would be best , or the HMG (menotropin)

**Renholder** · 09-14-2012, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by pugster

as its already been said hcg mimics LH only so is no good for fertility on its own afaik , clomid on the other hand is used in the UK as a male fertility treatment as it stimulates FSH , a combination of both would be best , or the HMG (menotropin)

Not quite correct:

LH, by the use of its substitute hormone, hCG , is always replaced before FSH for three reasons:

■hCG stimulates the Leydig cells to secrete testosterone , which results in an intratesticular testosterone concentration 100 times that in the peripheral circulation, a concentration essential to stimulate spermatogenesis. (See "Male reproductive physiology".)
■hCG alone may be sufficient for stimulation of spermatogenesis [2]; FSH alone is not effective [10].
■hCG preparations are considerably less expensive than exogenous FSH preparations, in particular, recombinant FSH

http://www.uptodate.com/contents/ind...y-hypogonadism

**Renholder** · 09-14-2012, 02:11 AM

Jason,

The HCG doses you are on are TRT doses. With fertility treatment they use much higher doses over a shorter period of time. I think you should at least double your doses. Possibly 500 IE 3X weekly.

Read the link I posted in my previous post. It has some good information.

**jasondd1** · 09-14-2012, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Renholder

Jason,

The HCG doses you are on are TRT doses. With fertility treatment they use much higher doses over a shorter period of time. I think you should at least double your doses. Possibly 500 IE 3X weekly.

Read the link I posted in my previous post. It has some good information.

Thanks, I really have no idea in what condition my swimmers are in right now. I think I will get the sperm home test kit i posted earlier in 2-3 weeks and see what condition they are in. What I do next will depend on those results. Thanks for the info

**HRTstudent** · 09-14-2012, 02:13 PM

If I were currently trying to conceive there is no way I would start TRT... its just going to hurt your odds. Once you conceive you can go on TRT, but in the mean time there are far better options if conceiving is your priority.

**jasondd1** · 09-14-2012, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

If I were currently trying to conceive there is no way I would start TRT... its just going to hurt your odds. Once you conceive you can go on TRT, but in the mean time there are far better options if conceiving is your priority.

I assume you mean some sort of HCG , HMG, Clomid protocol?

**HRTstudent** · 09-14-2012, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by jasondd1

I assume you mean some sort of HCG, HMG, Clomid protocol?

Yes, all of those and even AI or tamoxifen are better options than going on T.

Low dose clomid is probably the most studied and proven method to both raise T and also actually improve fertility. Its cheap too. If it were me, I would go on clomid monotherapy if I wanted to conceive and try to improve my T.