My TRT Journey so far. Could use some expert advice.

[JackG79]

Hello... My name is Jack. I am a 33 year old Male. I am 6'1... (I swear I used to be 6'2..... But my tape can't seem to rach 6'2 anymore...
I didn't think that I would shrink until I got to be about 65-70... I guess I am old beyond my time...

I used to have a substance abuse problem, and I don't know if it was the use of suboxone to get and stay clean, that caused my Low-T or if it was the overall negative impact on my health, by the druggs. The good news, I will be celebrating my 3rd year clean, sober and living the good life again. (Got my girlfriend, son, home, and job back.)

So I have been totally clean from all the suboxone, and other opiates. My addiction was too opiate based medication, and gradually spiralled out of control to H-eroine and occasional coke use.

While I have been clean, and got my life back in order, about a year and a half ago... (6-8 months after I discontinued my suboxone use).... I noticed that my energy was not just down.... i noticed that it was completely in the toilet. I knew what it felt like to be down and out because of the withdrawls. I also knew what it felt like to be healthy, as I played football in HS and College. I used to lift all the time, and do martial arts.

So after noticing that I had NO energy... and also that our love life wasn't the same... I started to think about Testosterone ... I saw all the late nite commercials for "Ageless Male" and thought to myself... ... man. I seem to have almost all those symptoms. Honestly, I thought about ordering the stuff. I knew I had a physical coming up, so I figured I talk to doc.

He ordered blood work. Just basic work. Glucose, Cholestrol, Vitamin D, Free & Total Test. All looked good except that the Free and Total Test levels were both well below the lab range listed on the blood work.

I cannot remember the exact numbers, but I do remember that one was like 218, and the other 140.... I also had low Vitamin D, which he prescribed me. (1 50,000 unit pill / week for 4 weeks).

He prescribed me Testim 50mg Testosterone Gel.... One tube a day.

He never gave me any more blood work, never checked my thyroid, no pituitary work.....

I have been using the Testim 50 for less than a month... after day 3 I started to feel good. Less aches, pains, and just overall a more positive feeling. Then after 2-3 good days, I totally crashed. I think I feel worse now that I did before I took the testim. I even came home from work early one day I felt so worn down.

So this is my issue.... Should I continute with the Testim 50? I take it every day right now, but if I don't take it, I don't seem to feel any different. I have only missed a day twice, but when I did miss them, I didn't feel any worse at all. I guess when you feel like crap, it takes a lot to feel even worse....

I have a Dr. Appointment next week with my doctor, so I am kinda wondering what I should do... Besides feeling like shit, the stress of the gel is weighing hard on my family. I stress all the time about hurting my son, and I have had to camp on the couch with a sheet down a few times because of my GF's worrying about getting it on her.

I feel like shit still, and would prefer the injections to prevent transdermal transfer to my family... now for the last issue.. My insurance company initailly wouldn't cover the testim 50. The Doc's office had to send in a pre-certification authorization request form. The insurance approved me for 6 months of Testim 50. So as far as getting on a Cyp or Eth injection... I have a feeling that he isn't going to want to do it. He is my PCP, but claims to be an "Internal Medicine" Doctor.. (whatever the hell that is).

So i took to the phone. I spoke with a gentlemen who is a pharmacist of company called "penro compounding pharmacy" in VT. He really seems to know his stuff, and discussed Pituitary, Thyroid, Hcg , and a LOT of the other things I see on this site.

He said I needed a higher does of Test. I should use HcG to avoid damage to my testicles (as my gf wants another baby within the next year or two).

He says I should stick with the Vitamin D, and shoot for the Test Cyp Injections. Unfortunatly, this guy is a pharmacist and cannot write me a script, but he was nice enough to talk to me for about 45 mins on the telephone.

So When I go to the doc next, where do you guys suggest I start?? I would like to get off the Gel, and On the injections... I would like a better blood work up done, and I was wondering about the things I should ask to have done. So that I can bring you guys back better information as to where I am at. (I know my first Blood Draw was vague look at the overall picture).

I would really like to get my Test levels up to where I feel good. The first few days when i started to feel good... were nice. Everyone I talk to that has any experience with hrt tells me that some of that was just placebo effect, but that some of it could have been the test. The thing that I keep hearing is.. "if you think you felt good those days, wait until you get dialed in to the high end of the range, and get a more consistant test level."

I apologize to everyone for the length of this thread. I am all over the place and just cannot seem to find a good place to start or end. I guess I'd just like any advice on what kind of blood work I should request.. should i request actual test cyp... or should I just request an injectable to alleviate the stress in the household from the transdermal gel. Once again, my frustration is getting the best of me lately. I don't even know where to begin to get this all fixed up.

Thank you guys for listening to my long winded thread. Any help/advice would be much more appreciated than you could even imagine.

[JackG79]

I had to delete a few words to get this to post... so if it seems like an obvious word may be missing that is why. Once again, my apologies on the length, and how sporatic this thread is.... it comes from someone who is stressed to the max and ready to call it quits. Thank you to gdevine for getting me to make my own thread, as crazy as it turned out, i feel glad that I put it down on screen and any help is better than where I am at now.

Jack

[pugster]

your doctor should have been monitoring your blood alot sooner since you started the gel, it sounds as tho this has basically happened > when you first start the gel you have your own testosterone + the gels extra , you feel good, after awhile the gel will shut down your own system so you just have the gels lvls on its own - docs usually monitor this and up the gel dosage to counteract this.
your level need retesting and the amount of gel you use increasing by the sound of it , as for gel v shots , i prefer shots as they are less messy and once done you can forget about it (ive tried both) , but many still like /use the gels , its just a matter of preference.

*50mg testim is a starting dose afaik, if you are worried about transference with the gel then mention it to the doc and get switched to injections (cyp, enth or whatever he uses)

[kelkel]

Welcome Jack and your post, though long, was well written and from the heart. I appreciate it as it gives us a good base to work from, historically speaking. Agree with pug on the fact that the gel may now have you lower than your endogenous T production. We really need to see good BW, both before TRT started and now if possible. Go to the Finding a Physician Sticky at the top of the forum and look at the examples. Also call the docs office and have them fax you your copies of BW. They are yours. If they won't, call your lab and follow their protocols for obtaining them. Then always get them ahead of all future doc appts for review purposes. We will help you.

It would be great to have found out exactly what was causing your low T prior to starting TRT as some causative factors are fixable. Anyway, injections are definitely the preferred protocol here and with desiring another child you definitely would want HCG as well. There's another sticky on that too.

When it comes to vitamin D. Sounds like your doc prescribed you Drisdol which is Vit D2 and 50K IU as stated. Only 4 weeks though is ridiculous. Switch over to Vit D3 when you run out (unless he re-writes it) which you can buy anywhere (Walmart, etc) as it's cheap and effective. 5-10K IU per day and then monitor on future BW. D, a hormone, will lower your SHBG thus elevating your Free T level. A good thing!

The pharmacist you spoke to is pretty up on things. Start reading all the stickies and self-educating yourself here. Prepare for your next appointment and write down your questions if you have to. Nothing worse than walking out and realizing you forgot to ask an important question. You are in charge of your health and your doc is there to help you. You got some good advice from GD. He's one of the best here!

Glad your here Jack.

[JackG79]

Welcome Jack and your post, though long, was well written and from the heart. I appreciate it as it gives us a good base to work from, historically speaking. Agree with pug on the fact that the gel may now have you lower than your endogenous T production. We really need to see good BW, both before TRT started and now if possible. Go to the Finding a Physician Sticky at the top of the forum and look at the examples. Also call the docs office and have them fax you your copies of BW. They are yours. If they won't, call your lab and follow their protocols for obtaining them. Then always get them ahead of all future doc appts for review purposes. We will help you.

It would be great to have found out exactly what was causing your low T prior to starting TRT as some causative factors are fixable. Anyway, injections are definitely the preferred protocol here and with desiring another child you definitely would want HCG as well. There's another sticky on that too.

When it comes to vitamin D. Sounds like your doc prescribed you Drisdol which is Vit D2 and 50K IU as stated. Only 4 weeks though is ridiculous. Switch over to Vit D3 when you run out (unless he re-writes it) which you can buy anywhere (Walmart, etc) as it's cheap and effective. 5-10K IU per day and then monitor on future BW. D, a hormone, will lower your SHBG thus elevating your Free T level. A good thing!

The pharmacist you spoke to is pretty up on things. Start reading all the stickies and self-educating yourself here. Prepare for your next appointment and write down your questions if you have to. Nothing worse than walking out and realizing you forgot to ask an important question. You are in charge of your health and your doc is there to help you. You got some good advice from GD. He's one of the best here!

Glad your here Jack.

Hey KelKel, Thank you for your reply. It was nice to find after a really crappy day at work. I have kind of a different question about TRT.. I missed my dose on Saturday, and Didn't remember until about dinner time on Sunday. So I used a tube (50mg test) at about 5pm on Sundy. Then I used another one about 11pm on Sunday as well... The first one being my Missed dose from Saturday, and the second being my Sunday use. I was up at 5am, and used my Monday dose... So between 5pm Sunday, and 5am Monday morning, (approx 12 hours) I used three treatments... (or 150mgs).... I felt like I could feel something different today. The first part of the day, I didn't feel tired, or beatup.. I have a VERY physically demanding job... and for some reason, I sweat such an ungodly amount htat it is disgusting... making things even harder... There have been days that I worked and came home 8-9 lbs less... literally drank 2 - 3 gallons of water, and not urinate once while at work. (Could this ridiculous amount of persperation be hormone related???)...

SO this is what I was wondering???? Did me taking the 3 uses so close together hurt me in any way? I felt good the first half of the day, but I felt like an emotional wreck when I got home... I don't know if it was the bad day at work... the complete 12 hours of sweating buckets non-stop. Or if it was hormone related from the TRT.. When I get home, nobody was home, and I took a shower, i literally broke down sobbing in the shower, and I didn't even know why... Is this something that I did to myself with the test???

[kelkel]

Well you definitely used more than your body is used to. Testim as far as I know is not going to hurt you in any way. Maybe some nausea or related sides as your body adjusts to much higher than normal levels. If you miss a dose in the future don't try to make it up. If it's to far past normal application time just wait until your next one. It's still in your system and you'll be fine.

When it comes to your sweating that is different and can point in many directions. Hyperhidrosis and no reason for it is a concern. It can be related to the adrenals or the thyroid glands or beyond. Hyperthyroidism and sweating go hand in hand by the way. Anxiety is not out of the realm as well.

It's time for complete BW. Use the first one in the previously referenced sticky and be sure your doc includes a full thyroid panel including TSH, T3 free and T4 free.

[JackG79]

Hey KelKel,

I called the docs office today. I spoke with the recepeptionist. I told her that I wanted to get a complete BW done and she asked me to write down what I wanted done for work, and bring it to my appointment. She said the doc would give me Rx for it, and my insurance should cover it. That was good news to me, as I have seen some pretty steep BW pricing. My appointment is coming up, So I'm looking forward to getting this new BW done and seeing some answers. Also, I will work on getting my BW from the lab (BW that I had done PRIOR to my testim use, that you asked me to get). I'm pretty excited about getting my hands on all of this information. It will be great hearing from you guys what could be going on inside. Finally some positive. WOooOhOooo

[kelkel]

Well we are glad to help. We've all been in your shoes one way or another. This forum has helped us all in so many ways I couldn't begin to count. Try to get all copies of your previous BW and fill out the HIPAA form at your lab to begin getting all future copies ahead of time. That way you can post them here and the members can review it. It's a great way to prepare for your appt as opposed to going in blind!

kel

[JackG79]

So I went around town tonight (plattsburgh NY) Looking for some of the stuff I have read on here. I was wondering if it mattered what brand vitamins and/or hormones I should get? Should I get DHEA now, or should I wait until I have had my next blood-work done, so that I can post the results and then tailor my supplements to your advice?

I found most of the stuff available at my local GNC... I also see that Wal-Mart has quite a pretty extensive vitamin selection. Pretty much my local options are GNC, Wal-Mart, Kinney Drug$, Rite Aide, and I found a place that sells a lot of organic stuff... surprisingly they had a large selection of vitamins as well.

I held off on purchasing anything as I wanted to find out if anyone had any advice on what brands I should use, and what dosages I might want to start with.. (for instance, they had Vitamin D, D2, & D3... but they had all three in different doses.. 3k, 4k, & 5K (IU),) I didn't want to spend a bunch of money on something, and have it be the incorrect dosage or brand.

Will a Wal-Mart Brand, carry the same quality as a GNC brand...?? Instead of using my local stores would anyone suggest my looking online?

[JackG79]

HCG ? I was discussing the use of HCG in my TRT... My girlfriend kinda laughed at me... she said the HCG is a hormone that women produce when they are pregnant. She said that she did a diet called the HCG diet, and showed me that she still had a bottle of HCG that she got from K-Mart. Is this the same HCG That we would use in our therapy? From what I read the stuff that we need to use is an injectable, and cannot pass through the liver into the blood-stream? I was surprised to see that she had a retail bottle of the stuff. Can you help me clear up my confusion on this? I will also browse the stickies in the mean-time. If I can find the answer before I get a reply, I will close out this post.

[steroid.com 1]

Don't take anything now till your BW is completed.

We want to see where you live and supplementing now will mask that.

Sit tight...you're getting close.

[JackG79]

Don't take anything now till your BW is completed.

We want to see where you live and supplementing now will mask that.

Sit tight...you're getting close.

GD, should I continue with my Testim - 50? I am going to get the BW from the lab that did my initial BW so that I can post it on here. Unfortunately I don't think it will have a lot of useful info. Just my Free & Total Testosterone levels , Vitamin B, Cholesterol, Glucose... I don't think he asked for much more than that. But I will get it and post it. Thanks GD.

[steroid.com 1]

GD, should I continue with my Testim - 50? I am going to get the BW from the lab that did my initial BW so that I can post it on here. Unfortunately I don't think it will have a lot of useful info. Just my Free & Total Testosterone levels, Vitamin B, Cholesterol, Glucose... I don't think he asked for much more than that. But I will get it and post it. Thanks GD.

Jack - Don't change anything that you are already doing right now...stay the course and get BW done.

It would have been nice to see the follow-up labs listed in the sticky to see where you are at.

Things like Thyroid panels, E2 and Cortisol are very important in making an assessment.

[JackG79]

Jack - Don't change anything that you are already doing right now...stay the course and get BW done.

It would have been nice to see the follow-up labs listed in the sticky to see where you are at.

Things like Thyroid panels, E2 and Cortisol are very important in making an assessment.

Okay. I will continue on with the Testim-50 1/ED. I would have liked to see those labs as well. My doctor didn't order what he should have. He is my pcp, and the sign on his office says "Plattsburgh Internal Medicine". So I don't think that he is familiar with HRT... I think he just tested the testosterone levels , saw them low, and threw testosterone at it. I have only had blood work done EXACTLY ONCE... There was no Thyroid Panel, no E2, No Cortisol... The more I educate myself here, the crazier I see that it is that he prescribed me testim-50 already. It looks like most folks have 3-4 BW's done before they get any kind of testosterone. I am going to get the info for that one blood draw I had done, and I will post all the info that is on it for you guys to check out. I will continue on with my Testim-50 1/ED, and nothing else. Once I can get another BW done, I will add the Thyroid Panel, Cortisol E2, and anything else we need. I won't purchase any supplements until I have posted the prior BW & the upcoming one. Other than the two BW's, is there anything else I should obtain?

[steroid.com 1]

^^^^Nope; just do as you stated.

"I think he just tested the testosterone levels , saw them low, and threw testosterone at it."

Your Doctor doesn't know what he's doing with you...you know that right?

You need to find a Doc who understands HRT for men...it's your health we're talking about here.

[JackG79]

Yes, I have tried to reiterate that over and over again. That is exactly why I am here. I live a stones throw from the Quebec Canada border in Northeastern NY. If I could say my options were very limited, that would be a gross overstatement. My options are zero... I figured if I could come here and become informed myself, that I could attempt to inform him as well. So far they are working with me on the new Blood Test. The fact that he was willing to acknowledge that I didn't feel right, and do a test was further than I had gotten elsewhere. My plan is to get my BW here, take the information and advice in the forums, stickies, and new comers posts, try to apply it all to my situation as it coincides with my numbers and continue with regular blood work until I get to where I feel right, and my numbers are safe and healthy. So far with the hyperhidrosis, and the vast other symptoms I seem to be having. I think that it may actually be my thyroid.

It sounds like once I get my thyroid dialed in.. (if it does indeed prove to be bad) that my testosterone will eventually go up. I have read that the thyroid could be causing the low-t. If getting the thyroid corrected does bring the Low-T levels back to normal, cut back some of the sweating, improve sleep, and alleviate some of the other symptoms, there may actually be no need for me to continue on with Testosterone Therapy . (YES, I know this is a big "IF") But from what I am reading, and from the very little bit of logic that I have been able to string together from the stickies, and advice I have got so far, this seems like a more plausible scenario than me just having low T at only 33 years old.

I don't have a 100 percent perfect definitive plan of attack yet. But that is something that has been on my mind. The BW's and more educational research, along with the awesome folks advice around here will bring the pieces together and help me find the correct path. If the doctor won't keep an open mind I will have no choice but to explore long-distance traveling options. I don't make a lot of money, so I am trying to stay at a relatively decent budget. I am not afraid to budget my health into my life, I am certinly not a penny pincher, but for now, if this route works, and I can stay local, I think that things could work out.

If I hadn't found these boards, I wouldn't even attempt this. I was totally blind at first. I have a long ways to go, but feel much more informed from my short time here so far.