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  1. #1
    Fireguy40 is offline Junior Member
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    Fire guy...going back to Doc tomorrow! Lets get it on Doc!

    Ok guys, I am giving this Doc one more chance to put me on the protocol that " I " want to be on after listening to all you guys.

    Here's the cliff notes on me:
    I got my test level up to 900 in around 10 weeks from being in the low 200's. I recently had bloodwork and after asking for a "sensitive assay " test, I don't think that's what I was given. My Estrogen level was 160 and when I questioned that being high, his nurses said that 200 or over is a high level. ( I have been looking all over the net and cannot for the life of me find anything that says what "normal estrogen levels in males are". Everything is for females ( I wonder if that's what they are telling me? Maybe they are looking at female ranges.

    Any way....tomorrow I am taking pages that I found from you guys on HCG + Test+ Arimidex and I am going to "suggest" that I would like to be put on this protocol. Seeing as after my Test level came back at 900, he wrote that he wants me to go back to once every 3 weeks for my 100mg injections. NOT GONNA HAPPEN! Any suggestions on on tactics? Thanks guys

  2. #2
    bk13332 is offline New Member
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    Fireguy,

    I am by no means an expert, but earlier today I was reading thru some threads and came across a link that answers your question about Estrogen levels in males. The recommended ideal range is 21.80 to 30. If you google "Life Extension" click on the May 2010 magazine there will be a link to "Why Estrogen Balance is Critical to Aging Men." Hope this helps with your Doc. I printed up the art for my own use. I cant find the exact thread as I have read too many today...
    Last edited by bk13332; 10-16-2012 at 05:47 PM. Reason: amend

  3. #3
    HRTstudent's Avatar
    HRTstudent is offline HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
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    If he's a bad doc then find a new one...

    Also, you almost certainly did not get the sensitive assay, so whatever that estrogen test was was worthless.

    The whole situation just screams to me that you are being treated by an ignorant general practitioner who knows nothing about TRT.

  4. #4
    bass's Avatar
    bass is offline HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
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    Lef. com has lots of info.

    FireGuy, sorry to see you here bro! But don't worry it's not so bad, in fact it will be great for you. Sensitive assay from labcorp is 3-70 and we like our level to be around 24-30 and based on how you feel/BW. Tell your doctor about the half Life of test, it peaks in about 78 hours and by day 8-9 its at the bottom. Most now do it twice a week to avoid spikes/peaks and valleys.

    A complete TRT protocol consists of,

    Test, preferred twice a week, once a week minimum.
    AI, beautiful with this one, take only as needed and based on BW
    hCG , tailored as needed
    Blood donation as often as they allow
    Vitamin D, minimum 5000 iu ed
    DHEA and other supplements as needed

  5. #5
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Here's the article bk1 referenced. I post it here every couple days it seems. LEF is a great source of info: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010/...ing-Men_01.htm

    Agree with HRT. You need a new doc but in the meantime try and enlighten him. Make him aware of the half life of testosterone . Advise him that Dr. Crisler, one of the leading TRT docs in the country, recommends a minimum of weekly injections, even twice weekly for more stable levels. Take some of Crislers papers with you. Ask him to trust you on your research and to let you try 100 per week for a month and then re-test. Maybe he'll agree, if he's not a pompous ars.

    Keep us in the loop and good luck Fireguy!

    kel

  6. #6
    labuski is offline Junior Member
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    Didnt crisler go crazy?

  7. #7
    Times Roman's Avatar
    Times Roman is offline Anabolic Member
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    OP. we are talking pg/ml, right?

    mine came in at 52, and Kaiser says it should be below 50. Funny how my endo didn't address this issue when we had our conversation. I think it flies under the radar for most endos'?

  8. #8
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labuski View Post
    Didnt crisler go crazy?
    No, not crazy. He had a domestic issue resulting in an arrest that he is apparentely fighting. I haven't followed it too closely.

  9. #9
    rollingthunder's Avatar
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    unfortunately, sometimes extra work is required to get what you want. (applies to most things in life it seems, eh?)

    the doc i started working with on trt was actually pretty good, however, overly conservative for me. he wanted to ramp things up very slowly. we finally got to the point where i was getting 200 mg test cyp eow. i was going in to his office and a nurse would give me the shot. i asked if i could self administer. he said, yes, just have the nurse show you how to do it and then you're good-to-go.

    well, the night before my appointment for the "tutorial", the nurse calls me and says, "actually, it is illegal for you to self-inject because testosterone is a controlled substance and blah, blah, blah." i knew this was BS, because a friend of mine was already self-injecting.

    so, i did some investigating and it took a few weeks, but i found another doctor at another clinic who writes me a script for Test Cyp. (and i save about $40/shot doing it myself! i suspect that's why he didn't want me self-injecting.)

    so, first, you need to know what you want. then you have to go get it.

  10. #10
    bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollingthunder View Post
    unfortunately, sometimes extra work is required to get what you want. (applies to most things in life it seems, eh?)

    the doc i started working with on trt was actually pretty good, however, overly conservative for me. he wanted to ramp things up very slowly. we finally got to the point where i was getting 200 mg test cyp eow. i was going in to his office and a nurse would give me the shot. i asked if i could self administer. he said, yes, just have the nurse show you how to do it and then you're good-to-go.

    well, the night before my appointment for the "tutorial", the nurse calls me and says, "actually, it is illegal for you to self-inject because testosterone is a controlled substance and blah, blah, blah." i knew this was BS, because a friend of mine was already self-injecting.

    so, i did some investigating and it took a few weeks, but i found another doctor at another clinic who writes me a script for Test Cyp. (and i save about $40/shot doing it myself! i suspect that's why he didn't want me self-injecting.)

    so, first, you need to know what you want. then you have to go get it.
    your friend and all of us here, LOL! that's probably why, so he can make the extra buck. are you still doing it every two weeks? if so its a honorable protocol, half life of test is 6-7 days. since you're doing it yourself split your dose and switch to at least once a week, better yet split that to twice a week. basically 50 mgs twice a week.

  11. #11
    rollingthunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    your friend and all of us here, LOL!
    no kidding!

  12. #12
    rollingthunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    are you still doing it every two weeks? if so its a honorable protocol, half life of test is 6-7 days. since you're doing it yourself split your dose and switch to at least once a week, better yet split that to twice a week. basically 50 mgs twice a week.
    actually, once i started self-injecting, i did switch to 100 mg once/wk. am now thinking i'll try twice/wk subQ.

  13. #13
    bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollingthunder

    actually, once i started self-injecting, i did switch to 100 mg once/wk. am now thinking i'll try twice/wk subQ.
    Right on!

  14. #14
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    It's great to see new members learn here and now not affraid to take control of their heatlh...keep it up!!!

  15. #15
    Fireguy40 is offline Junior Member
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    Here's my update:
    Went back to the Doc armed with paperwork from info I got from you guys, and ......shot me down on both HCG and An AI. He insisted that my Estrogen level at 160 was in the normal range ( he showed me his computer screen that said anything under 200 is normal for males). I told him that I was not comfortable with going back to one shot of 100 MSG every 3 weeks like he wanted me to switch to. My level was at 900 and he said that I am at the upper end of normal and that he would like me to be at around 600. I told him I feel better now than I have in 15 years! He was ok with me dropping my weekly injection to 80mgs. He wants to retest me in around 5 months. He said that dropping to 80 MSG should also lover my Estrogen and that If I saw the side effects for HCG and Arimidex , I wouldn't want to go near them! Looks like its time to go find me a new Doc.

  16. #16
    bass's Avatar
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    yup, don't waste time, find another one.

  17. #17
    rollingthunder's Avatar
    rollingthunder is offline Associate Member
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    you gave him a chance to see if he would work with you. sounds like he won't. i would try to find a doc who will work with you. just my 2 cents.

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