MY E2 Management Thread :)

[kelkel]

Yep, saw them. No doubt a contributing factor but as stated, E can do it as well. Google pubmed, Estrogen, Anxiety...

[--->>405<<---]

gotcha. so am i understanding correctly u think its a combo of low E2 + elevated free test? and am i correct to assume at 16 my E2 is "low" in ur opinion?

do u think im correct about why free and total test is so high? due to getting good dhea + sub q injects converting less T to E which will give me more Test??

also couldnt this deal end up being better in the long run considering i am lowering my test dose and possibly eliminating AI??

[Rusty11]

TSH at 115....mine was 8.5 and i thought that was high. Anyway, back before i took radioactive iodine to kill my thyroid, i was extremely hyperthyroid. You say nothing about losing weight, but the anxiety and pounding heartbeat are trademark indicators. I'd be laying down and my chest would be pounding. If laying on my side, it would pound in my ear so hard. But again, your pulse is regular and you are not losing weight. But the thyroid is very odd. I had both hyper and hypo symptoms at the same time. I dont know....maybe have that checked out soon. The pounding heart is scary...at least it was for me.

[kelkel]

gotcha. so am i understanding correctly u think its a combo of low E2 + elevated free test? and am i correct to assume at 16 my E2 is "low" in ur opinion? Could be the combo of both, sure. E2 at 16 is on the low side but it's where I run as well most of the time. DHEA did recently bring mine up to 23 though. It's how you feel at that level that matters.

do u think im correct about why free and total test is so high? due to getting good dhea + sub q injects converting less T to E which will give me more Test?? Very logical. I agree.

also couldnt this deal end up being better in the long run considering i am lowering my test dose and possibly eliminating AI??

OMG yes. Your goal should be to not have to use an AI and it appears you will be there very soon


In bold above..

kel

[--->>405<<---]

TSH at 115....mine was 8.5 and i thought that was high. Anyway, back before i took radioactive iodine to kill my thyroid, i was extremely hyperthyroid. You say nothing about losing weight, but the anxiety and pounding heartbeat are trademark indicators. I'd be laying down and my chest would be pounding. If laying on my side, it would pound in my ear so hard. But again, your pulse is regular and you are not losing weight. But the thyroid is very odd. I had both hyper and hypo symptoms at the same time. I dont know....maybe have that checked out soon. The pounding heart is scary...at least it was for me.

thx rusty. i left the decimal out of tsh shoulda been 1.15

[--->>405<<---]

OMG yes. Your goal should be to not have to use an AI and it appears you will be there very soon


In bold above..

kel

well thx kel, i dropped test dose down from 80mg to 60mg (2 shots per week) as of last nite and have dropped adex completely (was at .25mg twice per week) and gonna get re-tested in 4 weeks. hope for the best!

i figure if E2 went from 30 down to 16 in 6 weeks at .25mg adex and 160mg test then at 120mg test i should not need adex.. (right? ) - hopefully!

[--->>405<<---]

Well im at doc now to make sure i dont have any heart probs. wish me luck!

[RaginCajun]

Well im at doc now to make sure i dont have any heart probs. wish me luck!

i think you are a nervous worry wart!

i remember when your liver enzymes were up and you were nervous!

hope everything turns out A O K!

[--->>405<<---]

i think you are a nervous worry wart!

i remember when your liver enzymes were up and you were nervous!

hope everything turns out A O K!

Thx cajun yeh i fig better to over react when it comes to the heart than under react. Doc told me im good and gave me a script for buspar to control anxiety.

[Rusty11]

thx rusty. i left the decimal out of tsh shoulda been 1.15

Oops. I guess if I had read a couple more posts past that one, I would have seen that you already clarified that with GD.
Did Doc give you any information today? And, yea, a pounding heartbeat is worth getting checked out. Glad you did.

[--->>405<<---]

Oops. I guess if I had read a couple more posts past that one, I would have seen that you already clarified that with GD.
Did Doc give you any information today? And, yea, a pounding heartbeat is worth getting checked out. Glad you did.

did ekg and attributed it to anxiety. scripted buspar.

[kelkel]

And the cause for the anxiety is.....?

[J DIESEL3]

Thx cajun yeh i fig better to over react when it comes to the heart than under react. Doc told me im good and gave me a script for buspar to control anxiety.

Glad you got a clean bill from the doc man!

I will be getting my results tomorrow where my test and estrogen are at..

Well I hope your buspar works well for u.

Ok I'm off to take a few benadrol so I can try to sleep......

[--->>405<<---]

And the cause for the anxiety is.....?

good question kel. dont know. i can tell u since yesterday of going to doc my anxiety has subsided a good bit. had a good night sleep last night. maybe in part it was due to concern over my weird heart beat. time will tell! if it continues to persist i may seek additional treatment to find the source.

Glad you got a clean bill from the doc man!

I will be getting my results tomorrow where my test and estrogen are at..

Well I hope your buspar works well for u.

Ok I'm off to take a few benadrol so I can try to sleep......

thx dude. curious to see ur blood work results. post em up when u get em. if u dont want to start a thread feel free to post em here! i wanna see if ur test levels went up like i suspect considering we both implemented the same protocol changes (almost) and both got the same symptom.

[J DIESEL3]

Ok here are my results

Total Test 1420 (348-1197)
Free Test 44.2 (8.7-25.1)
E2 sensitive 39 (3-70)

So it must be the elevated test causing my anxiety issues.I have had my e2 up to 39 and i don't ever remember feeling like i do now maybe I'm wrong..I think that not being able to get the rest I need is also stressing me out.So i guess for today when i do my shot i will be dropping it back down!LOL

[--->>405<<---]

^^ good deal dude! we both were way above range in free test! how much are u currently taking per week now??

and yes i agree with the anxiety and elevated test levels. interesting we both had such similar circumstances simultaneously!

[--->>405<<---]

u know this makes me wonder deisel what will happen to us if we decide to run a cycle of say 500mg per week???!!

[J DIESEL3]

I am taking under 160 mg of test cyp per week.I know that was crazy this happened to both of us at the same time doing just about the same thing!!

You know 405 i think about that all the time..I think i would go off the deep end doing that much! LOL
When i was in my mid 20's i did a test only cycle 2 times both were 12weeks.The 1st time i did 200mg a week and the one after was 300 to 400 per week and back then i was ok.I just don't think that would be the case now.I am just about 40 now and I'm very happy with my build however i do think about it.

[--->>405<<---]

yeh its part of what has kept me from doing it. i can def say i did not like how i felt over the last couple weeks.. dont know if it would be the same or worse or less on a regular cycle.. seems like most guys enjoy it.. dunno..

[--->>405<<---]

i would like to note i decreased my test dose monday nite from 80mg to 60mg (i do 2 per week) and i already feel WAY BETTER! i remember seeing bass post something similar to this awhile back and wondered what he was talking about. now i know!

i think the best way to describe it is at ease and more "normal" (if there is such a thing!)

[kelkel]

Have you started the buspar?

[--->>405<<---]

Have you started the buspar?

no.. dont feel the need. im not a guy who likes to take meds. esp considering ive been sober 4yrs.. why i told the doc i didnt want anything like xanax.. just will take it if i need it. i think it more has to do with test levels.

not to mention the rep psych drugs have for making u fat.. NOT something i want.. even less than anxiety!

[kelkel]

Great. With your comment about feeling better I was curious if it related to both items or just one. Good news 405!

[--->>405<<---]

Alright guys (kel) .. Got my labs back!

5 weeks completely off adex running 120mg test cyp subq per week split into 2 shots (60mg each) 300iU hcg nite before each test shot results:

Free test 25 (8.7-25.6)
E2 (sensitive) 19 (3-70)

Yes!! Looks like i can put this E2 situation behind me finally!!! Only thing i havent spoken to doc yet but i think he would like to see free test higher based on what was communicated via email. They said they like free test 30-40 (mine is 25)..

But i consider myself dialed in at this point. I will continue to monitor blood work but 5 weeks ago E2 was 16 (running .25 mg twice per week) so it only jumped 3 points in 5 weeks with no AI..

Sub q is it guys!! I am a believer!!

[kelkel]

405 I'm happy for you sir! GREAT news to not have to use an AI isn't it! You seem to have a very liberal doc if he wants to bump up your free test even more! Question, are you on D3 as well? DHEA? Refresh my memory (I'm old.)

Now, IMO, I don't think it's specifically SQ but moreso the twice per week protocol that is getting us the desired effects!

Awesome 405!

kel

[RaginCajun]

thats awesome bud!

[--->>405<<---]

^^thx Kel!

dhea: 50mg per day micronized lef

preg: 50mg per day micronized lef

d3: 5000(whatever it is) lef

coq 10: (cant remember dosage) lef

multivit

vit c: 2000mg (i think)

fish oil: script lovaza 5000mg

melatonin: 3mg - 10mg depending which one i take

here my logic regarding E2: as u know i have struggled like a mofo with E2 for over a year! the entire time i have been injecting 2x per week. i have gone from no AI to 3mg adex per week and everything in between with no success.

8-10 weeks ago i switch to sub q and my E2 stopped jumping all over the place. after first blood work from going sub q my E2 was 16 (3-70) on .5 mg adex per week. this time i eliminated adex completely and now E2 is 19 (3-70).

this is why i attribute it to sub q. the absorption rate is slower right? less of a spike.. maybe it is just timing as im now single digit bf but i swear the sub q is what evened it out and NOT the 2x per week injects as ive been doing that all along..

thoughts?

[bass]

Alright guys (kel) .. Got my labs back!

5 weeks completely off adex running 120mg test cyp subq per week split into 2 shots (60mg each) 300iU hcg nite before each test shot results:

Free test 25 (8.7-25.6)
E2 (sensitive) 19 (3-70)

Yes!! Looks like i can put this E2 situation behind me finally!!! Only thing i havent spoken to doc yet but i think he would like to see free test higher based on what was communicated via email. They said they like free test 30-40 (mine is 25)..

But i consider myself dialed in at this point. I will continue to monitor blood work but 5 weeks ago E2 was 16 (running .25 mg twice per week) so it only jumped 3 points in 5 weeks with no AI..

Sub q is it guys!! I am a believer!!

good stuff 405, congratulations! I just did BW and waiting for results to see where I sit with E2 without AI, I hope I'll have your numbers!

[--->>405<<---]

good stuff 405, congratulations! I just did BW and waiting for results to see where I sit with E2 without AI, I hope I'll have your numbers!

thx bass!i hope ur bw comes back good too dude

[kelkel]

Good points 405. Body fat plays a large part in this as well as you know. I asked about supps out of curiousity with dhea. When I started micronized as opposed to a prescription cream it jumped up literally 150 pts. It also bumped up my E to 23 which it can do (helps lipids too btw) as well. There were no other changes to my protocol and my E is rock solid at 16 normally. Very happy with 23!

[--->>405<<---]

hey guys i got some more blood work done. i will post the results of all abnormal stuff here: (the idiots did not chek free and total test again... )

BUN: 21 HIGH (6-20)

sodium serum: 132 LOW (134-144) i eat a lot of salt too

chloride serum: 95 LOW (97-108)

cholesterol, total: 207 HIGH (100-199)

LDL cholesterol calc: 142 HIGH (0-99) i thought this was the good fat??

DHEA-Sulfate: 677.2 HIGH (88.9-427.0)

TSH: 3.020 (0.45-4.50) this is not high but it has been steadily climbing since i started TRT 18months ago. my first one was 0.73 why is it climbing??
free t4: 1.25 (0.82-1.77)
free t3: 2.8 (2.0-4.4)

IGF1: 283 HIGH (69-226)

E2 (sensitive): 40 (3-70) it was 19 last time but i have run test at 200mg per week for about 3 weeks or 4 and 300mg one week with no AI im assuming this is the culprit..??
(my actual TRT dose that had me at 19 was 120mg per week test cyp..)

[rt12008]

My E2 is 9. Is that too low?

[zerodarkthirty]

My last E2 test was 9. If you have to ask, maybe not, but for me I felt like complete crap.

[rt12008]

Well, my test dropped from 498 to 347. I assumed that was the reason I didn't feel awesome. I am having mostly sexual and motivation issues. Some memory issues. My preg is also low. Dropped too. After HCG . Oh well, I have my own thread for that. : )

[rt12008]

Just to clarify, E2 is Estradiol, Sensitive on the tests, right?

[38onTRT]

Correct. You want the Sensitive Assay

Just to clarify, E2 is Estradiol, Sensitive on the tests, right?

[--->>405<<---]

Free Test: 47pg/mL (8.7-25.1)

Total Test: 1479ng/dL (348-1197)

E2(sensitive): 46pg/mL (3-70)

Free T4: 1.37ng/dL (0.82-1.77)

Free T3: 3.2pg/mL (2.0-4.4)

TSH: 1.95uIU/mL (0.45-4.50)

mainly feel tired a lot during the day as well as when i wake up in the morning. this is more pronounced here in the last several months. thought it might be thyroid as my doc has asked my if i felt tired before and told me my thyroid was "slugggish" and "not optimal" but also not hypothyroid either..

Austin??

also my E2 is slowly climbing.. it was 40 back in march and now its 46.. im not on any AI and would rather not get on one.

[kelkel]

Are you running some extra test right now 405?

[phaedo]

Free Test: 47pg/mL (8.7-25.1)

Total Test: 1479ng/dL (348-1197)

E2(sensitive): 46pg/mL (3-70)

Free T4: 1.37ng/dL (0.82-1.77)

Free T3: 3.2pg/mL (2.0-4.4)

TSH: 1.95uIU/mL (0.45-4.50)

mainly feel tired a lot during the day as well as when i wake up in the morning. this is more pronounced here in the last several months. thought it might be thyroid as my doc has asked my if i felt tired before and told me my thyroid was "slugggish" and "not optimal" but also not hypothyroid either..

Austin??

also my E2 is slowly climbing.. it was 40 back in march and now its 46.. im not on any AI and would rather not get on one.

I read through your thread - interesting to say the least! It appears you've had quite the time nailing down your TRT protocol.

I've noticed you've consistently kept your testosterone at supraphysiological levels. You've been running a permanent, low-dose cycle, I think. Is there any reason you're pushing beyond normal levels?... I'm assuming for the merits of performance and bodybuilding?

Your thyroid looks normal (which is good). Your fatigue, however, raises a few questions. Regarding your fatigue pattern, do you have trouble waking up, but once you "get going" your best or most alert part of the day is between morning and noon? But by early afternoon, you begin to feel somewhat lethargic, and by evening you're pretty worn out and ready for bed?

Also, how sensitive are you to caffeine? Do you chronically drink coffee, use pre-workouts, etc.?

[--->>405<<---]

[QUOTE=phaedo;6570818]

I read through your thread - interesting to say the least! It appears you've had quite the time nailing down your TRT protocol.

you are correct sir! most of this time that was so tuff was when i was injecting IM. since i have switched to subq i actually got it dialed in. im currently running 160mg test per week because i had it raised due to a cut i was on and have not brought it back down. my TRT doc prefers to see my free test around 30-40.. my dialed in dosage is 120mg per week. it keeps total around 1000 and free around 25 and E2 around 19 which is pretty much perfect.

I've noticed you've consistently kept your testosterone at supraphysiological levels. You've been running a permanent, low-dose cycle, I think. Is there any reason you're pushing beyond normal levels?... I'm assuming for the merits of performance and bodybuilding?

yes u are correct aside from what i mentioned about my doc liking to see it high..

Your thyroid looks normal (which is good). Your fatigue, however, raises a few questions. Regarding your fatigue pattern, do you have trouble waking up, but once you "get going" your best or most alert part of the day is between morning and noon? But by early afternoon, you begin to feel somewhat lethargic, and by evening you're pretty worn out and ready for bed?

my doc insists my thyroid is "sub-optimal" but normal. as far as ur description of my daily fatigue pattern: have u been following me around or what?? LOL.. that is the nail on the head!

Also, how sensitive are you to caffeine? Do you chronically drink coffee, use pre-workouts, etc.?

not sensitive to caffeine. i drink 12 cups coffee everyday in the am.. (yes 12).. i make an entire pot and i have 2 bubba kegs that hold 34 oz each and i fill em both up and drink them within 2 hrs of waking up. after that i may have a diet dew or 2 or 3 throughout the day and another 2-3 more at night when i get home. i dont use any pre workout drinks.