MY E2 Management Thread :)

[xcraider37]

Wow that's a lot of caffeine. You need to cut way back sensitive or not.

[--->>405<<---]

Wow that's a lot of caffeine. You need to cut way back sensitive or not.

LOL.. yeh i guess i dont think about it like that, considering all the things ive done in my past.. on fasting days i have been known to drink an entire pot of coffee at night and then go to bed.. i dont notice any appreciable difference in how i feel, i just like the way it tastes..

heres an interesting article i found on caffeine and fatigue:
http://www.naturalnews.com/012352_caffeine_coffee.html

i suppose i could be a candidate for this. i dunno. u know how u read these so called health articles and have the "yeh yeh yeh" attitude like it really doesnt apply to you and they are just blowing this stuff out of proportion?? i guess that s kinda how i feel about it. LOL..

[100%]

https://wiki.brown.edu/confluence/do...tionreview.pdf
You might want to read this study on Addiction and its reward process through
polymorphisms of the D2 dopamine receptor gene:
a

[Rusty11]

Yes. My name is rusty and I'm addicted to caffeine.

Anyway, glad things have normalized. With a physique like that, I found it odd that you were having issues with e2. I don't know when that pic was taken, but you look perfectly dialed in to me. Yea, a bit jealous.

[Keep_It_Moving]

405-

I have to agree with Rusty on this one. Your body looks great man, no homo...

You look like you have everything dialed in....

Badass bro

[phaedo]

Another few questions: Do you crave salt? Do you drink large quantities of water compared to your work co-workers or friends, etc.? Do you urinate pretty frequently? (sorry, but trying to embarrass you lol). How often do you workout? (frequency, intensity, time...)

Perusing the historical trend of this thread (symptoms, labs, caffeine use, and most notably the persistent supraphysiological levels of testosterone ) I think you're borderline adrenal insufficient, if not already there. People on the interwebs (with an M.D. from Google Med School) claim this phenomena as "adrenal fatigue," but the medical industry doesn't recognize "adrenal fatigue" and refer to it as the aforementioned insufficiency. In other words, you're probably producing inadequate amounts of cortisol. Chronic levels of high testosterone has exhausted your adrenals.

Inducing high levels of testosterone or thyroid hormones provokes intense adrenal stimulation. You're literally instigating greater stress on the body, where in turn, the adrenals compensate by secreting higher levels of cortisol.

In the bodybuilding community, cortisol is deemed as this great "catabolic" hormone responsible for the "metabolism of hard earned muscle" and causes lots of "fat gain." It makes for good article in Muscle Fitness, but cortisol is very necessary for life. It's not all the detestable; quite the contrary. Most dramatized magazine inserts or under-qualified hearsay on message boards draws erroneous conclusions from Cushings Syndrome, where cortisol in excess and will cause problems and symptoms we want to avoid. Their argument is a straw man. Anything in excess (or in deficiency), however, is a malfeasance.

In the 1940s, those with adrenal insufficiency, called Addisons, lived an average of 8 years. With the advent of hydrocortisone, predisone, and dexamethasone, simple cortisol-replacement-therapy now allows patients to live long, healthy, normal lives. If, for example, you suffer from adrenal insufficiency and you are involved in a car wreck, you'll most likely die without an injection of hydrocortisone soon following the trauma. My point is that cortisol, when moderated, is good and should always be considered during any form of treatment for hypopituitarism.

Cortisol usually begins to rise four hours before you wake up, and is at its' highest level in the morning and slowly tapers off over the day. Your diurnal curve is probably similar, just relatively much lower on the scale. During periods of high stress, you probably feel tired and overwhelmed. Hence, you supplement with extraordinary amounts of caffeine to get you through the day.

I'd suggest you speak to your medical professional and request a diurnal cortisol saliva test and cosyntropin stimulation test. Together, both of these should give you commensurate numbers regarding your symptoms, lifestyle, and offer substantial prognosis.

If you do have adrenal insufficiency, my recommendation would be to lower testosterone into "normal" levels (800-ish) and reduce the amount of training. The adrenal glands are pretty resilient, and given time and adequate rest, can recover and maintain proper cortisol and norepinephrine levels. Resorting to exogenous cortisol therapy would be my last option, in my opinion.

~ phaedo

[phaedo]

Wow that's a lot of caffeine. You need to cut way back sensitive or not.

Chronic caffeine intake (>300 mg/day) has been correlated with an increased lifespan. And these are not just trivial studies; large amounts of clinical evidence...

HA! :-D

(I like caffeine haha)

[xcraider37]

Chronic caffeine intake (>300 mg/day) has been correlated with an increased lifespan. And these are not just trivial studies; large amounts of clinical evidence...

HA! :-D

(I like caffeine haha)

Large amounts of evidence it's not good for you also, this is another case where more is not better.

[austinite]

hey guys i got some more blood work done. i will post the results of all abnormal stuff here: (the idiots did not chek free and total test again... )

BUN: 21 HIGH (6-20)

sodium serum: 132 LOW (134-144) i eat a lot of salt too

chloride serum: 95 LOW (97-108)

cholesterol, total: 207 HIGH (100-199)

LDL cholesterol calc: 142 HIGH (0-99) i thought this was the good fat??

DHEA-Sulfate: 677.2 HIGH (88.9-427.0)



IGF1: 283 HIGH (69-226)

E2 (sensitive): 40 (3-70) it was 19 last time but i have run test at 200mg per week for about 3 weeks or 4 and 300mg one week with no AI im assuming this is the culprit..??
(my actual TRT dose that had me at 19 was 120mg per week test cyp..)

Bun is high. This is most likely due to your astronomical protein intake

Sodium is not that far off. Believe it or not, too much water intake can drop that number, but I'm not sure that is the actual cause. Under-active thyroid could also cause this, but you're in range, although on the lower end.

chloride serum being low kind of counters what I said above, as that could have to do with dehydration. But not sure here...

No triglycerides? I think I heard you mention once that you take fish oil, are you taking it with Vitamin E? If not, you should, to protect the fatty acids. Much more effective. Look for Vitamin E Tocopherols for best results.

DHEA-s... not sure. I'd ask the doctor about the possibility of some sort of adrenal dysfunction.


I'm no thyroid guru, but its common for TSH to climb with when on TRT. Are your test levels in the upper range? Can you afford to drop your dose slightly? You can also look at iodine, selenium, and folic acid levels. Deficiencies in these are related.

[OoberVir]

405, have you tried changing the time of day with which you supplement DHEA and pregnenelone?

I started with a DHEA level of 370, doc prescribed 50mg micronized to get it higher and I ordered my own pregnenolone (50mg), with no bloodwork to back it up. I found after two months of taking it I would become very lethargic, anxious and hungry. I stopped the pregnenolone and got bloodwork on my DHEA levels that came back at 750. What I found was these side effects would hit me within the hour of taking my pills.

If you haven't, I would suggest taking pregnenolone and DHEA at night one day and in the morning on another day and see if you can narrow those down as being the cause of your symptoms.

[--->>405<<---]

thx oober. yeh i am considering reducing my dhea. my levels are close to 677 so i will play with it a little by reducing my dose .. maybe splitting it since i have 50mg tabs to 50mg every other day. i take 50 dhea and 50 preg daily. i dont think my doc understands dhea and all that even though he prescribes it. he says my free test was ok at 52!!