BW results. Please advise on best path: TRT or Cycle

[kruno1970]

I've been contemplating doing a cycle for the last 6 mths and after much time spent on this forum and learning about what to do and what not to do I took the first step (actually bought test e first) and got bw done. I was initially going to do a cycle for 12 weeks (had good response on my plan from vets) and then starting reading more about trt and thought this may be for me since I'm experiencing the symptoms related to trt (primarily low libido along with fatigue and aches and pains from workouts). Now that I have my blood work I'm not sure so sure trt is the best thing for me. My TT and FT seems really good although my ES is on the low side. I really want the feeling of well being and a good pump again since no matter what I do (heavy, supersets,etc) I can't get a pump anymore. And I can't lose the fat around my midsection. Again more symptoms of trt from what I read.

Can you guys please provide me with some direction on what best to do based on my bw.

Stats: 42yr old male, 175lbs, 15%bf, workout 3-4days a week with cardio (bball one night a week for 3hrs). Diet is very good but ldl is high for some reason (maybe the mutant mass I'm taking for weight gain). I'm a hard gainer but these days the heavy weight are taking its toll on my joints. Can't seemed to put on mass without feeling pain in my joints.

Bloodwork:

CBC With Differential/Platelet
WBC 5.2 x10E3/uL 4.0-10.5 01
RBC 5.07 x10E6/uL 4.14-5.80 01
Hemoglobin 15.7 g/dL 12.6-17.7 01
Hematocrit 46.3 % 37.5-51.0 01
MCV 91 fL 79-97 01
MCH 31.0 pg 26.6-33.0
MCHC 33.9 g/dL 31.5-35.7
RDW 12.9 % 12.3-15.4
Platelets 255 x10E3/uL 140-415
Neutrophils 38 Low % 40-74
Lymphs 51 High % 14-46
Monocytes 9 % 4-13
Eos 2 % 0-7
Basos 0 % 0-3
Neutrophils (Absolute) 2.0 x10E3/uL 1.8-7.8
Lymphs (Absolute) 2.6 x10E3/uL 0.7-4.5
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.5 x10E3/uL 0.1-1.0
Eos (Absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2
Immature Granulocytes 0 % 0-2
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1
Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 86 mg/dL 65-99
BUN 19 mg/dL 6-24
Creatinine, Serum 1.03 mg/dL 0.76-1.27
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 89 mL/min/1.73 >59
eGFR If Africn Am 103 mL/min/1.73 >59
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 18 9-20
Sodium, Serum 138 mmol/L 134-144
Potassium, Serum 4.4 mmol/L 3.5-5.2
Chloride, Serum 101 mmol/L 97-108
Carbon Dioxide, Total 25 mmol/L 20-32
Calcium, Serum 9.4 mg/dL 8.7-10.2
Protein, Total, Serum 6.8 g/dL 6.0-8.5
Albumin, Serum 4.5 g/dL 3.5-5.5
Globulin, Total 2.3 g/dL 1.5-4.5
A/G Ratio 2.0 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin, Total 0.7 mg/dL 0.0-1.2
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 84 IU/L 25-150
AST (SGOT) 24 IU/L 0-40
ALT (SGPT) 20 IU/L 0-55
Lipid Panel
Cholesterol, Total 177 mg/dL 100-199
Triglycerides 77 mg/dL 0-149
HDL Cholesterol 48 mg/dL >39
According to ATP-III Guidelines, HDL-C >59 mg/dL is considered a
negative risk factor for CHD.
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 15 mg/dL 5-40
LDL Cholesterol Calc 114 High mg/dL 0-99
Thyroid Panel With TSH
TSH 2.670 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500
Thyroxine (T4) 6.4 ug/dL 4.5-12.0
T3 Uptake 38 % 24-39
Free Thyroxine Index 2.4 1.2-4.9
Testosterone , Free/Tot Equilib
Testosterone, Serum 700 ng/dL 348-1197
Testosterone,Free 25.13 High ng/dL 5.00-21.00
% Free Testosterone 3.59 % 1.50-4.20
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 1.8 ng/mL 0.0-4.0
IGF-1 Insulin -Like Growth Factor I 170 ng/mL 64-210
Estradiol, Sensitive 12 pg/mL 3-70

[bass]

your BW looks great with the exception of your E2, and that probably where the pains and aches are coming from! LDL is nothing to be concerned about. i think working on your diet would be best, diet meaning eating the right foods to improve your recovery like good carbs and fats, maybe supplement with BCAA's, etc... your thyroid seems to be a little over active, talk to your doc to do more tests. definitely not ready for TRT.

[kruno1970]

What should I do to improve my E2?

Note: Wife and I have had troubles having kids for the last 8 yrs so we're going the surrogate route. My boys need to be functioning. Do you think a cycle or any sort of trt would mess this up? Reason I ask, guy at my gym, same age, is self-administering about 80mg a week and is getting great results, feels great and just got his wife pre go without using any hcg .

[bass]

cycle will make it harder for you to have kids, but perhaps hCG mono therapy to improve your e2 and testicular function! Kel and GD will have better answers so hang tight...

[kruno1970]

bump.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I wouldn't start TRT if I were you. You have midlevel testosterone levels . And unless you use hCG your sperm count will go down.

How long are your weight lifting sessions? How many sets per bodypart? I find that as a 40yr it is easy to overdo the gym. Your joints can't handle as much stress as when you were 18. 3 hours on basketball can take its toll. Sometimes less is more. Glucosamine with MSM can also help your joints.

Also you definitely are not going to lose your belly fat while taking a weight gainer. It's pretty much one or the other.

[Sworder]

You don't have your LH/FSH levels or am I failing to see them?

[Sworder]

I wouldn't start TRT if I were you. You have midlevel testosterone levels . And unless you use hCG your sperm count will go down.
Also you definitely are not going to lose your belly fat while taking a weight gainer. It's pretty much one or the other.

HCG doesn't affect sperm count. It's a LH analog not FSH analog!!

[The Deadlifting Dog]

then I am confused.

from gdevine's sticky post: "hCG and Pregnenolone; What you should know."

In order for men on a TRT protocol where they are in a state of shutdown/suppression to make up for the lost production of LH they will need add hCG to their protocol which is a bioidentical form of LH (LH Analog).



So what happens when a man testicles don't function anymore do to the lack of LH?

1. The Biggie: Testicular Atrophy. Men will see their testes get smaller over time and hurt constantly along the way. The duration for this event seems to be different in men where younger guys can seem to go longer where mid to older guys see the event happens on a more accelerated scale. Some think it happens to do with the amount of receptors on the Leydig cells...but who really knows.
2. Sperm production is pretty much halted.
3. Men's scrotum's will get really tight and pull up against the body causing pain and end up looking like a 5 year old.
4. The testes are the single largest producer of the hormone Pregnenolone; the mother of all hormones .... We need Pregnenolone for so many reasons (read the link) and while it can be supplemented it's hit or miss on how effective supplementation can be.

Why we need hCG:
1. To produce Pregnenolone; hCG activates the p450 side chain enzyme which converts cholesterol to Pregnenolone!!! (Read the link above, please.)
2. To produce the precursors for DHEA, Estrogen, Cortisol, Testosterone and DHT...back filling the pathways (See #1 above)
3. For proper and normal brain function
4. For proper functioning of the testicles
5. If men ever want to restart
6. If men ever want to have children
7. If men don't want balls that end up in a small mass of useless Collagen
8. The list goes on..."

[Sworder]

I can not speak for gdevine nor his post. LH(hCG ) stimulates leydig cells(testosterone production), sertoli cells are for spermatogenesis(hMG is the analog for this I believe).

[Vettester]

I can not speak for gdevine nor his post. LH(hCG) stimulates leydig cells(testosterone production), sertoli cells are for spermatogenesis(hMG is the analog for this I believe).

That is correct. HMG will contain both the LH and FSH analog. The FSH will stimulate the Sertoli cells as stated.

[kruno1970]

What do you suggest to increase my E2 levels? 12 seems too low.

[kruno1970]

bump

[kelkel]

Read this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2913032/

pertains to HCG 's effects.

kel