Latest Blood Work.....Help

**kQuick** · 11-26-2012, 03:26 PM

So I'll try and make this short. A few years ago I started taking Rogaine, Saw Palmetto, and a topical liquid that turned out to be an Anti-Androgen. This was all for hair loss, I was 23 and got very depressed when it came about. I was working a job that required me to talk to groups in public and I couldn't handle it. Long story short it obliterated my Test production and made my Estrogen sky rocket.

I just had a few tests done last week and here are the results, From 11/16/2012:

Total Testosterone Serum: 374 ng/dL 348-1197
Free Testosterone (Direct): 10.8 pg/mL 9.3-26.5
Estradiol (Roche ECLIA methodology): 14.0 pg/mL 7.6-42.6
Estrogens Total: 69 pg/mL 40-115
Estriol Serum: <0.3 ng/mL Range Not Established.
SHGB: 21.8 nmol/L 16.5-55.9

Here is some previous bloodwork from 03/23/2012 if it helps:

Potassium Serum: 4.3 mEq/L 3.5-5.3
DHT: 27 ng/dL 16-79
Total Testosterone: 267 ng/dL >220
Estrogen: 129 pg/mL >=130
Prolactin: 8 ng/mL 2-18
FSH: 4.2 mIU/mL 1.4-18.1
LH: 5.6 mIU/mL 1.0-12.0

So I am 100% sure that my Test has dropped because of the hair loss products I took, since before that I was 200 lbs with 9 or so % bodyfat. Now I am 220 lbs and have gained quit a bit of fat/water retention, and have also lost quit a bit of muscle. I still get morning erections, but they're not consistent. My testicles have also shrunk, I'd say by 25-40% in total size, especially the thickness of them. My breast tissue also seemed to change texture, which I had an ultrasound and mammogram done to confirm. It feels sort of like "fibrosis," usually what a woman going through menopause might get. I also have a varicocele on my left teste, which I have had since I was 15, but has never cause me any sort of problems, so I'm assuming my drop in T wasn't from this but from the Anti-Androgen Is all this normal with Low T/High Estrogen's? Based on my sets of tests does it look like my body still has the ability to create Testosterone on its own? I've heard if your LH is low then you can probably still produce it.

Right now the only product I am taking is 0.5 mcg of a Thyroid medication, because previous tests had shown it to be anywhere from 2.5-5.5, where it should always be at 0.5-3.0. Not sure what effect this has made on the rest of my hormones though.

Any advice/information would be appreciated. I have an appointment with my Endo tomorrow, and her plan is to put me on topical T cream mixed with Progesterone. I'm very terrified of taking any outside Test. Because (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) once you start taking outside Testosterone, your body will lose it's ability to create it on it's own? This is what I'm scared of, as I am not sure exactly what path to take.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 11-26-2012, 03:37 PM

A couple of questions to help the more knowledgeable members help you out.

What was the name of the anti-androgen you were using?
When did you stop taking the anti-androgen?
At what time of day did you take you're blood tests?
When did you start taking your thyroid medication?
Do you have any of your thyroid blood test results?
Do you exercise?
What is your diet like?
How tall are you?

**Back2Big** · 11-26-2012, 03:38 PM

I'm on a program with outside test prescribed by a doctor and it does while on. He prescribed me HCG with my program to help my body to continue to produce my own test. I think the creams suck. I was on them. expensive, smelly, sticky, and I just did not like them at all. But that's my opinion. In my experience you have to fight your doctor or endo to get on a good program Depending where you live they simply are not up to speed on what to do. My first doctor said my test score of 179 was low while my new doctor said it was not low BUT deficient!!! I live in the midwest and I can tell some of these doctors are NOT keeping up to speed with HRT just by the way they discuss the subject. I'm NO expert but I have been dealing with this for 2yrs and have read and researched a TON on this subject for my own good and needs. I cannot speak on the hair loss products but my suggestion is to ask many questions and research some on your own.

**kQuick** · 11-26-2012, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

A couple of questions to help the more knowledgeable members help you out.

What was the name of the anti-androgen you were using?
When did you stop taking the anti-androgen?
At what time of day did you take you're blood tests?
When did you start taking your thyroid medication?
Do you have any of your thyroid blood test results?
Do you exercise?
What is your diet like?
How tall are you?

What was the name of the anti-androgen you were using? It was a product labeled RU58841, that's all I know. I wish I knew what Andogens were at the time -__- and also Rogaine is considered an anti-androgen.
When did you stop taking the anti-androgen? I was taking it from August 2011 to February 2012.
At what time of day did you take you're blood tests? My most recent test was at 9:30am, and my test from March was at about 3pm
When did you start taking your thyroid medication? In May, after I first started seeing my Endo. She's a private Dr. and says hormone balance is her specialty.
Do you have any of your thyroid blood test results? From 2009 until now they have been: 3.48 (pre anti androgens), 5.22, 2.22, 2.91, 4.58, 3.69 (while I was taking anti androgen androgens), 2.78, 2.44 (while on T3)
Do you exercise? Yes, consistantly for the last 5 years. Lift weights 3x a week and run about 2x a week.
What is your diet like? Try to keep my calories under 2000 a day. Lots of protein and Veggies, especially cruciferous types.
How tall are you? I'm 5'9.

**kQuick** · 11-26-2012, 05:12 PM

Aside from the long story and lists of test results, I basically just have a few main things I want to understand better.

1) So if I start taking a Testosterone cream to try and balance out my hormones (what my Endo is looking to do, maybe starting tomorrow so I'm very nervous about it) does that mean I have to be on it for life? Or is this something I could use for a month or 2 and then drop? By the looks of my blood work what sort of treatment do you experienced TRT or HRT users say is best for me?

2) Would taking an Androgen Blocker permanently damage your bodies ability to make Testosterone and other androgens on its own? Or would it be as simple as to take an Aromatase Inhibitor to try and re-balance my natural hormone cycle? Because I have never taken any outside Testosterone, only the blockers.

3) I read that taking Vitamin D3 would help raise Free T levels. I started taking 2000 IU of this a day for a few days, but got constipated and have severe abdominal cramping after those few days so I stopped immediately. Is this common?

4) Is the E2 Sensitive Assey the only real way to determine a man's Female hormonal levels? As stated above I had my Estrogen/Estradiol levels checked, but they were actually pretty low it seems, and were NOT the Sensitive Assey.

**kelkel** · 11-26-2012, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by kQuick

Aside from the long story and lists of test results, I basically just have a few main things I want to understand better.

1) So if I start taking a Testosterone cream to try and balance out my hormones (what my Endo is looking to do, maybe starting tomorrow so I'm very nervous about it) does that mean I have to be on it for life? Or is this something I could use for a month or 2 and then drop? By the looks of my blood work what sort of treatment do you experienced TRT or HRT users say is best for me? Well, at your age you need to investigate everything before starting any type of therapy, IMO. It's not necessarily for life like is commonly stated, but it should be a last resort. Find the problem and try to correct it first. Look into the varicocele as they are fixable in many cases and will help restore better test production. Google it.

2) Would taking an Androgen Blocker permanently damage your bodies ability to make Testosterone and other androgens on its own? Or would it be as simple as to take an Aromatase Inhibitor to try and re-balance my natural hormone cycle? Because I have never taken any outside Testosterone, only the blockers. Don't know about permanently but they can seriously screw up your hormonal pathways in your hypothalamus and downstream.

3) I read that taking Vitamin D3 would help raise Free T levels. I started taking 2000 IU of this a day for a few days, but got constipated and have severe abdominal cramping after those few days so I stopped immediately. Is this common? I would not say common but it happens and can be related to other elements your body may be lacking. Titrate down and see how it goes.

4) Is the E2 Sensitive Assey the only real way to determine a man's Female hormonal levels? As stated above I had my Estrogen/Estradiol levels checked, but they were actually pretty low it seems, and were NOT the Sensitive Assey.

The sensitive assay is specific to males and is what you need.

see bold above. At your age I'd really look into fixing the problem and not putting a bandaid on it. It should not hurt your doc's feeling for you to get a second opinion. Your FSH and LH are not in the toilet but your Test levels are. This indicates possible primary hypogonadism /testical issue. Hence my thinking is to investigate your varicocele first before doing anything else.

Update us on how your appt goes on this thread please. Good luck!

kel

**kQuick** · 11-26-2012, 11:27 PM

Thank you very much for the reply Kel. That's exactly what I'm going for, a long term answer and not just jumping into hormone therapy. I'm just not exactly sure how all these hormones work in our bodies, and how each one correlates to each other.

I will most definitely ask her about the varicocele, and seeing if I can get an E2 Sensitive Assay. If not I can order through Labcorp on my own.

But I will update this thread tomorrow after I find out more and what her plan is. Thanks again. I do love this forum and want to stick around, this seems like the best place for knowledge and support.

**kQuick** · 11-28-2012, 06:22 PM

So I had my Endo visit yesterday, and she was actually pretty pleased with all my bloodwork. She thinks my body still has the ability to create it T on it's own and has postponed giving me any T as of now. She said my LH and FSH aren't screaming to make T, so it's probably just a matter of getting the pathways back to normal.

She has recommended me take an herbal supplement called Maca. I have done some researched and it seems like a low risk option right now to try and raise my T. Although she thinks my Varacocele on my left testicle isn't the cause of my T not producing (because I was obviously taking poison aka Anti-Androgens for hair loss) she still thinks I should get it looked at for further examination.

We also talked about getting the E2 sensitive assay, and she said I could take that as well as Vitamin D3, Estrone, and DHEA.

It seems like we're on the right path, and not jumping into any permanent or more risky solutions as of now. I will be ordering these blood tests this week from Labcorp (with a 15% off coupon I might add!) and try to get the Varacocele looked at early next week. At this point she's ruling out any Pituitary tumors because she said I'm not having headaches or blurred vision.

I will keep you guys updated as things progress, and also any more info or advice would be appreciated!

**kelkel** · 11-28-2012, 07:35 PM

Ok. A few things. The labcorp sensitive assey you want is #140244. CPT code 82670. Start a file for all your BW copies and keep this number in it. Trust me, the employees there are not that familiar and can screw it up so take it with you every time.

You could also talk to your doc about an HCG stimulation test to see how your boys respond. Meaning up production of T or stay about the same. I'm unfamiliar with maca so no comment there. Good on D3 and DHEA (micronized only) but explain the logic for estrone? Or am I reading that incorrectly and you mean your testing for them. If so, great. D3 is 25 Hydroxy, I gave you the E2 sensitive above and for DHEA you need to test for DHEA-S. Get pregnenolone as well.

Ok. Headaches and blurred vision are not the only effects from pituitary tumors. That's like saying all micro or macroadenomas are prolactinomas. Not true. I have a pituitary tumor. Trust me on this. They can do a variety of things. Read this when you have the time:

http://pituitary.mgh.harvard.edu/Tra...dalSurgery.htm

All in all, I think you guys made the correct decision and are on the right path. Keep us informed of results on THIS thread please.

kel

**kQuick** · 11-30-2012, 01:18 AM

Thanks for the reply kel.

Sorry yes I meant have all of those tested! Interesting read on the Pituitary Article. Maybe I'll try to get an MRI just in case if my Health care provider allows me. So could a tumor prevent my body from producing Testosterone , even though it wasn't the initial cause of my hormone imbalances?

and about the HCG , I've seen it mentioned on this forum before but I'm not sure exactly how it works. Could taking this cause permanent damage? It seems like it could help though because my Testes have shrunk quite a bit.

**kQuick** · 12-03-2012, 11:21 PM

Just got my 100% Organic Maca today and will start on 3000mg a day of it tomorrow. I also might get some Acupuncture treatment, to see if it can re-balance my hormonal pathways. Hope these things help me!

**kQuick** · 12-11-2012, 06:58 PM

So for a week now I've been taking 3000mg of Maca a day, half right when I wake up and the other half about 30 mins before bed. Can't really say I've felt any improvement physically/mentally or energy wise. The only thing I can say is I've been waking up with some pretty strong/consistent morning wood, which I was not before.

I was taking 50mg Zinc Picolinate/500mg Magnesium before bed since about May, but have since stopped since I've read too much Zinc can suppress the immune system. I actually ordered some ZMA which is essentially the same stuff but at a lower dose and includes Vitamin b6.

**kQuick** · 12-23-2012, 10:01 PM

So I've been taking Maca almost 3 weeks now, nothing new to report. Maybe actually getting more depressed/anxiety on this stuff.

And I dropped the ZMA and went back to the 50mg Zinc Picolinate and 500mg Magnesium. My morning erections weren't as strong in the morning and actually had a tougher time achieving one in general while I was on the ZMA.