Test levels

[FONZY007]

I was looking at my paperwork for when I did bw back in March.

I'm 31 years old

My test level was at 275ng/ml

It's stated normal range was 179-810 for my age
That seemed that was low (179)

My doctor stated at one time he wanted me to be at 500 range, personally I want to be 700-800 lol

I got the 275 taking 80mg , twice a week.

I did the bw on my 3 day after injection

My E2 numbers where at 39 for a range of 20-50

I'm seeing my GP doctor tomorrow and was wondering what to say.. I don't feel my best..

[kelkel]

Labcorp range is 348 - 1197 for total T. If that's all the higher you got on that protocol something is amiss. Are you a hyper-excreter? Are you positive your measuring your injections correctly? What is the rest of your protocol, AI, HCG ?

At your age your natural level should be much, much higher. Did your doc give you a reason you were low (primary or secondary) or just prescribe T? All possibilities should be investigated before starting someone on TRT. Do you have pre TRT BW you can post with ranges? It would help greatly. Specifically LH/FSH, E2, SHBG, Vit D, thyroid and cortisol levels. All you have please. Also what is your height, weight and estimated body fat level?

You need to find the causative factor for this as you may not need to be on TRT. Wouldn't that be nice! Hypo-thyroidism can cause hypogonadism. High cortisol can cause low T levels as well as a pathology. So many things can cause an inbalance in your T level, including lifestyle. Even an attempt at restarting your HPTA may be viable.

So, fill in the blanks for us.

kel

[FONZY007]

Labcorp range is 348 - 1197 for total T. If that's all the higher you got on that protocol something is amiss. Are you a hyper-excreter? Are you positive your measuring your injections correctly? What is the rest of your protocol, AI, HCG ?

At your age your natural level should be much, much higher. Did your doc give you a reason you were low (primary or secondary) or just prescribe T? All possibilities should be investigated before starting someone on TRT. Do you have pre TRT BW you can post with ranges? It would help greatly. Specifically LH/FSH, E2, SHBG, Vit D, thyroid and cortisol levels. All you have please. Also what is your height, weight and estimated body fat level?

You need to find the causative factor for this as you may not need to be on TRT. Wouldn't that be nice! Hypo-thyroidism can cause hypogonadism. High cortisol can cause low T levels as well as a pathology. So many things can cause an inbalance in your T level, including lifestyle. Even an attempt at restarting your HPTA may be viable.

So, fill in the blanks for us.

kel

Kel I've been on trt for about 5 years, used AAS at 21 so at 25-26 started to feel fatigued..

My levels got as high as 167ng/dl naturally.my bw was done at healthcare clinical laboratories. In Ca

Currently I'm 5'11'' 275 lbs probably 25+ bf . Trust me I know I need to get back down. Something I'm working on.

I do feel like a hyper metabolizer
No AI or HCG

He did LH/FSH a few bw back, it got to the point he just tested my test and liver.

I had an MRI on my pituitary, bone density test, ultra sounds on my organs since I did AAS he wanted to check for damage.

But the 2 things he checked are above with ranges. Test and E2

Test (total) 275. Range 132-813
E2 which is called estradiol 36.7 range <20-56

[kelkel]

It does not appear to be a sensitive E2 assay? If not, that's what you need. If E2 is high simply adding the AI will lower it and simultaneously raise your T. With higher BF levels your normally going to turn more T to E as the aromatase enzyme lives in the skin. So, work on that aspect and E goes down and T goes up. I did not know you were already a long term TRTer so LH/FSH are useless at this point. Great that pathologies were ruled out. When it comes to a hyper-excreter, I don't think you would really "feel" it, so to speak.

I would pursue complete BW at this point to include sensitive E2 assay, full thyroid panel, cortisol, DHEA-S, D, DHT and everything else you can pull so you and your doc (and here) can get a better picture. Adrenal fatigue comes to mind:

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/

You should definitly be adding in HCG at 250 IU's 2-3 times per week. Discuss this with your doc. It will also raise your T level.

kel

[FONZY007]

My paperwork doesn't state sensitive E2 it's only called Estradiol I believe.

Yea HCG will be brought up

[kelkel]

Really curious what is causing this Fonz. Let us know. Get this fixed and you'll feel like a new man!

kel

[FONZY007]

Really curious what is causing this Fonz. Let us know. Get this fixed and you'll feel like a new man!

kel

Thank Kel for the feedback I'm going to request all those test to be included!! I was also diagnosed with sleep apnea, but don't feel that was making me feel this way. I even get this way while I was in shape..

[FONZY007]

It does not appear to be a sensitive E2 assay? If not, that's what you need. If E2 is high simply adding the AI will lower it and simultaneously raise your T. With higher BF levels your normally going to turn more T to E as the aromatase enzyme lives in the skin. So, work on that aspect and E goes down and T goes up. I did not know you were already a long term TRTer so LH/FSH are useless at this point. Great that pathologies were ruled out. When it comes to a hyper-excreter, I don't think you would really "feel" it, so to speak.

I would pursue complete BW at this point to include sensitive E2 assay, full thyroid panel, cortisol, DHEA-S, D, DHT and everything else you can pull so you and your doc (and here) can get a better picture. Adrenal fatigue comes to mind:

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/

You should definitly be adding in HCG at 250 IU's 2-3 times per week. Discuss this with your doc. It will also raise your T level.

kel

Think about more and more and hearing about it adrenal fatigue stands out Kel.. I even have dark circles and I'm tired all the time! what test do I need to rule that out as I'm going to see him in the begging of next week and have bw done.. I was told since I'm on trt I should be taking dhea

[FONZY007]

Thank Kel for the feedback I'm going to request all those test to be included!! I was also diagnosed with sleep apnea, but don't feel that was making me feel this way. I even get this way while I was in shape..

Ok so I seen my GP this morning with all the extra bw test I wanted done. He told me I don't need PSA you are young I said yea I know it's good to be safe than sorry. He then stated why I'm on test anyway, you have your testicles removed, I stated no I've been on test for like 5+ years due to low levels. I told him I still feel like shit. He said ok we will do Bw and stated it might been cuz of my sleep apnea I said ok but I've been on the machine for 7 months now and only a little improvement. So we will see.

I asked for vit D, PSA, E2, cortisol, And DHEA

And I believe he was going to do a full panel on top of that.

She had like 6-7 vials when she took my BW so we will see what happens..

Also stated to him the last three bw I've been in the low to mid 200 t range. So that's over 3 years

I had a paper with all this writing on it plus maybe HCG and he took it but brought it back..

Might have to ask to be referred to an endo again..

Even talked about my nuts being small but he didn't seem to listen after waiting in his waiting room for over an hour I felt he should of listened..

[FONZY007]

Really curious what is causing this Fonz. Let us know. Get this fixed and you'll feel like a new man!

kel

Ok got blood reports back, I will attach as followed he wasn't concerned about anything but I am lol.

Noticed my Triglycerides are a little high and HDL slightly low but I'm going to fix that with exercise..but they originally where thrown out of wake do to accutane but I discontinued back in April..they where in normal range before that

My DHEA - S number slightly low, will start supplementing that

Vit D just .02 low lol will continue supplementing 5,000 ius a day

PSA is really low .69 ng/ml I do have one lol just alway felt something down there so I asked for the test

For some reason test levels where forgotten so he pulled them today as I don't think they will be above 300

My last levels where at 275 taking 80 mg twice a week but lower to prescription level which is 100mg so I can go from there with doctor

Was doing sub Q injections but changed to IM back around June.. My E2 numbers where right in the middle so I might have to move back to Sub Q cuz now my E2 levels are 69 from a reference of 20-56

[FONZY007]

Ok got blood reports back, I will attach as followed he wasn't concerned about anything but I am lol.

Noticed my Triglycerides are a little high and HDL slightly low but I'm going to fix that with exercise..but they originally where thrown out of wake do to accutane but I discontinued back in April..they where in normal range before that

My DHEA - S number slightly low, will start supplementing that

Vit D just .02 low lol will continue supplementing 5,000 ius a day

PSA is really low .69 ng/ml I do have one lol just alway felt something down there so I asked for the test

For some reason test levels where forgotten so he pulled them today as I don't think they will be above 300

My last levels where at 275 taking 80 mg twice a week but lower to prescription level which is 100mg so I can go from there with doctor

Was doing sub Q injections but changed to IM back around June.. My E2 numbers where right in the middle so I might have to move back to Sub Q cuz now my E2 levels are 69 from a reference of 20-56

Bump guys

[kelkel]

Ok got blood reports back, I will attach as followed he wasn't concerned about anything but I am lol.

Noticed my Triglycerides are a little high and HDL slightly low but I'm going to fix that with exercise..but they originally where thrown out of wake do to accutane but I discontinued back in April..they where in normal range before that Exercise, diet and your DHEA supplementation will help as well

My DHEA - S number slightly low, will start supplementing that
I looked and can't find your DHEA number. Use micronized if you supplement. I'd start at 25mg, IMO.

Vit D just .02 low lol will continue supplementing 5,000 ius a day
If still low and you've been supplementing up it to 10K a day and retest

PSA is really low .69 ng/ml I do have one lol just alway felt something down there so I asked for the test

For some reason test levels where forgotten so he pulled them today as I don't think they will be above 300
Post it here

My last levels where at 275 taking 80 mg twice a week but lower to prescription level which is 100mg so I can go from there with doctor

Was doing sub Q injections but changed to IM back around June.. My E2 numbers where right in the middle so I might have to move back to Sub Q cuz now my E2 levels are 69 from a reference of 20-56

Ok. Curious why you switched?


Regarding you new BW, other than in bold above. I still lean toward possible adrenal fatigue To me your thyroid levels point that way as well but maybe others can chime in. Low T4 and and lower TSH sometimes = pituitary issues but you already ruled that out. Add that to a lower T uptake level and it still points me to adrenal issues. Cortisol and DHEA directly relate to your adrenals. DHEA actually helps to balance out cortisol. If cortisol rises dhea drops and vice versa. All this can play into T issues.

Too much stress burns out the adrenals hence fatigue. That can then cause a cascade of issues resulting in problems. It still bothers me why your T levels have been so low on that amount, even with your current body weight and E2 levels.

[FONZY007]

Ok. Curious why you switched?

Regarding you new BW, other than in bold above. I still lean toward possible adrenal fatigue To me your thyroid levels point that way as well but maybe others can chime in. Low T4 and and lower TSH sometimes = pituitary issues but you already ruled that out. Add that to a lower T uptake level and it still points me to adrenal issues. Cortisol and DHEA directly relate to your adrenals. DHEA actually helps to balance out cortisol. If cortisol rises dhea drops and vice versa. All this can play into T issues.

Too much stress burns out the adrenals hence fatigue. That can then cause a cascade of issues resulting in problems. It still bothers me why your T levels have been so low on that amount, even with your current body weight and E2 levels.

I ran out of insulin syringes and started to use my IM syringes..

Should I go back and retest before adding a AI..

I talked to him about adrenal fatigue but he said nope, IDK..

Dhea I have it will upload that.. I haven't really stressed that much also I have 3 days off from work a week been feeling just a little run down

This uploaded bw has my E2 numbers, Dhea and cortisol

I was thinking of only adding 10mg of DHEA a day, is that not enough?

[kelkel]

Well, adding an AI at a very low dose will lower your E and in turn raise your T. Cortisol looks good from what I could see. DHEA is in the toilet. I'd start with 25mg as stated and make sure it's micronized.

[FONZY007]

Well, adding an AI at a very low dose will lower your E and in turn raise your T. Cortisol looks good from what I could see. DHEA is in the toilet. I'd start with 25mg as stated and make sure it's micronized.

Do you split that up or just take at beginning of day..

What will DHEA do for me, will it improve my overall well being ?

[kelkel]

Not sure which your referring to but for the AI you should start low, say .25mg 24hrs after injections. You then really need to test it again within about 4 weeks to make sure you don't drop to low as you don't know how you will respond to it.

DHEA is a precurser to T and you need to backfill pathways here. It will improve hormone levels and can raise E slightly hence starting with 25mg as well and monitor bloods. It can also improve lipids. It made a big difference in mine and that was the only change to my protocol between blood work.

Read this: http://www.livestrong.com/article/22...-dhea-for-men/

Fonzy I forgot to add it's time to start giving blood routinely. It will lower your already high hemoglobin and hematocrit levels. Jump on this.

[FONZY007]

Not sure which your referring to but for the AI you should start low, say .25mg 24hrs after injections. You then really need to test it again within about 4 weeks to make sure you don't drop to low as you don't know how you will respond to it.

DHEA is a precurser to T and you need to backfill pathways here. It will improve hormone levels and can raise E slightly hence starting with 25mg as well and monitor bloods. It can also improve lipids. It made a big difference in mine and that was the only change to my protocol between blood work.

Read this: http://www.livestrong.com/article/22...-dhea-for-men/

Fonzy I forgot to add it's time to start giving blood routinely. It will lower your already high hemoglobin and hematocrit levels. Jump on this.

Yea I've been giving blood every 2 months.. I just have about 3 weeks ago. I will continue to monitor my hemoglobin and hematocrit.

Oh I was referring to DHEA, I was thinking about switching back to SUB Q and go from there but I might add an AI for a few weeks to get me into normal range.

Thanks Kel for all the feedback you been very helpful

[steroid.com 1]

I don't have much to add here other than increasing your DHEA is very important.

I'd start with 75mg to 100mg for a week to ten days (front load) than back down to 25mg twice a day.

As kel mentioned make sure it's micronized www.lef.org has the best product IMO.

[FONZY007]

I don't have much to add here other than increasing your DHEA is very important.

I'd start with 75mg to 100mg for a week to ten days (front load) than back down to 25mg twice a day.

As kel mentioned make sure it's micronized www.lef.org has the best product IMO.

Ok, should I be on an AI with DHEA or it don't affect my test and E that much

[steroid.com 1]

You can take both and it won't effect Test or E2 levels if take as prescribed.

[FONZY007]

You can take both and it won't effect Test or E2 levels if take as prescribed.

Sounds good, will purchase some DHEA today and start taking ASAP!!

[FONZY007]

Thank you Guys for your help.. I see the doctor tomorrow and will ask to rerun some of the bw in 4-6 weeks to see where everything is at

[FONZY007]

Thank you Guys for your help.. I see the doctor tomorrow and will ask to rerun some of the bw in 4-6 weeks to see where everything is at

Ok just got out of doc office, test showed 482ng/dl, but was pulled about 16 hours early due to him not having the results. So i suspect it would be low 300 or even high 200 where I have been..

So moving forward I have made corrections to DHEA and VIT D..

So I'm going to bump up my test to 160 mgs a week (SUB Q) and start taking HCG twice a week before injecting 250 ius starting today..

Taking adex .25mg twice a week (day after injection)

Retest test, Vit D, E2, and DHEA in 6 weeks.

Do you guys know of the place I can get bw

[SEOINAGE]

I feel amazing with hcg . Seriously though I can tell it has an impact on my libido, went a week without it, also even on a blast the test doesn't effect libido and feel as good as from the hcg. Hope it can make a difference for you.

[TennTarheel]

I wish we could figure out why you aren't responding more to the Test injections. I'm really intrigued. It's always amazing how different individuals react to the exact same protocols. I would think your levels would be substantially higher.

Did I read correctly that you have been on TRT for 5 years and still over 25% BF?? And sleep apnea, that's a whole different beast. I used to be a device rep for a CPAP company and have seen how detrimental sleep apnea can be to one's overall health. It literally affects every system in your body because you NEVER get REM sleep.

I would be willing to bet that once you get down to a healthy weight and body comp, and getting the sleep apnea totally under control, your Test levels may increase a good bit. Not to mention, if you do the first two, that would most likely clear up your apnea altogether. Wouldn't that be awesome! Talk about feeling like a new man!

[FONZY007]

I wish we could figure out why you aren't responding more to the Test injections. I'm really intrigued. It's always amazing how different individuals react to the exact same protocols.

Did I read correctly that you have been on TRT for 5 years and still over 25% BF?? And sleep apnea, that's a whole different beast. I used to be a device rep for a CPAP company and have seen how detrimental sleep apnea can be to one's overall health. It literally affects every system in your body because you NEVER get REM sleep.

Correct I haven't always been over 25% bf every year just creeping up more and more.. Shit i was always tired.. Doctor states from my bf and broad shoulders is why I have sleep apnea I felt it start when I was in (SHAPE)..

Yea me too, I would love to use less..my dose has NEVER been optimized, and the doctor didn't want to hear anything, at one point I got hella acne he told me to take 100mg every 2 weeks.. I've been in the mid to low 200 range the whole time!! I did stop for about 6 months to have a baby which I did she is now 2 1/2 years old. I wanted him to help me, but honestly I don't think he knew what he was doing! you guys are more help than you know, I'm taking back my body and ready to hit it hard...

[TennTarheel]

You've probably already discussed this, but is this doc your only viable option right now? He definitely isn't doing you any favors. There are lots of options out there but it just takes some diligence to find the right one, as I am definitely aware. It sucks ass, but the end result of finding the right treatment will be more than worth it.

[FONZY007]

You've probably already discussed this, but is this doc your only viable option right now? He definitely isn't doing you any favors. There are lots of options out there but it just takes some diligence to find the right one, as I am definitely aware. It sucks ass, but the end result of finding the right treatment will be more than worth it.

Oh yea I left him about 6 months ago, well told me to see my GP cuz I upped my dose lol..

My GP pretty much ran all the test I wanted and give me the test prescription.. I have to pay for the AI and HCG so I'm happy I Guess. With your guys help I'm finally fixing everything

[FONZY007]

Ok so I'm on 80mgs twice a week

250ius of HCG twice a week day before injection

.25mg of adex twice a week day after injection

I'm about 3 weeks in starting to feel more energy and need less sleep and feel over all better

Question tho I'm starting to break out a little should I increase the adex to .50mg twice a week or wait till after bw

[FONZY007]

Bump

[steroid.com 1]

Acne is not a sign of elevated E2 it's just a side of the Testosterone making your skin more oily.

There are a number of cleaners and meds you can take if it really bothers you.

[GeriatricOne]

I get an acne outbreak every time my Testosterone dose increases (even a little). Lasts a while and eventually subsidest for the most part. Doctor gave me a prescription for Clindamycin Phosphate gel. Works great for me.

[FONZY007]

I get an acne outbreak every time my Testosterone dose increases (even a little). Lasts a while and eventually subsidest for the most part. Doctor gave me a prescription for Clindamycin Phosphate gel. Works great for me.

I used to have that but doc told me she wouldn't give it to me cuz OTC are almost just as strong these days