38onTRT 6 Week Bloodwork- Sub Q Injections Bi Weekly

[38onTRT]

Hello Everyone,

Thought I would post my BW from my 6 week Results. Currently taking 50mg Bi Weekly Test Cyp. Sub Q Every Monday and Thursday. 250iu hCG Bi Weekly Every Tues and Friday. Aromasin as needed, usually when I am feeling a bit bloated however haven't taken it since a day before my Blood Draw.

Current Stats
6'2"
230lbs
23-ish % BF Guesstimate going off my FitBit Scale..

estradiol, sensitive 		  12 		3-70 	pg/mL

% free testosterone 		          3.75 		            1.50-4.20 	%
testosterone,free 		          18.22 		            5.00-21.00 	ng/dL
testosterone, serum 		          486 		            348-1197 	ng/dL

hematocrit 			         54.2 	               37.5-51.0 	%
hemoglobin 			         18.9 	               12.6-17.7 	g/dL
rbc 			                         5.92 	               4.14-5.80 	x10E6/uL

I have about 20 days before I can go back to the Red Cross to Donate, however am wondering if I should either get a script to do Phlebotomy OR go the "bass" route and do some "self-bloodletting" Kinda interested in this just to say I did it.. lol..

[J DIESEL3]

If you are going to the Red Cross already then just find a central blood bank.

They have no connection at all so just find one in your area.

[steroid.com 1]

Your E2 at 12 pg/ml is to low. Injecting SQ twice weekly like you are is probably not resulting in much aromitization. May want to see how you do with not AI for a few weeks and get tested.

Testosterone serum levels look good but you'd think at 200 mg of test a week your total would be higher than 486.

Give blood in 20 days...you will be alright for that period of time.

[38onTRT]

Your E2 at 12 pg/ml is to low. Injecting SQ twice weekly like you are is probably not resulting in much aromitization. May want to see how you do with not AI for a few weeks and get tested.

Testosterone serum levels look good but you'd think at 200 mg of test a week your total would be higher than 486.

Give blood in 20 days...you will be alright for that period of time.

I am taking 100mg weekly, taking 50mg twice a week.. I need to re word my original post.. I will stop with the Aromasin for now..

[GFA]

I have a thread related to IM vs SQ injections.

Looks like its not working for you either. 100mg a week test should bring you close to 800 ng/dL. Im going to add these results to the thread.

[38onTRT]

Im thinking of going back to IM injections.. I may do it for another 6 weeks and get retested..

[GFA]

Ya sounds good. Check the other thread, your results are similar to others that are trying SQ. Report back your findings so we can create an extensive table of SQ vs IM.

[steroid.com 1]

You could just be be a high metabolizer; we see it here from time to time.

I'd opt to kick up your weekly dosage to something like 70 mg twice weekly for a total of 140 mg per week and see what that does to your total serum levels.

Why do you want to go back to IM?

Although I don't have a problem with either method SQ should give you a more linear serum level through the course of a week.

[GFA]

You could just be be a high metabolizer; we see it here from time to time.

I'd opt to kick up your weekly dosage to something like 70 mg twice weekly for a total of 140 mg per week and see what that does to your total serum levels.

Why do you want to go back to IM?

Although I don't have a problem with either method SQ should give you a more linear serum level through the course of a week.

For some of us it appears SQ has a much lower absorption rate. I started a thread with lab work for people that have tried both.

[38onTRT]

I agree with you that we would like a more linear serum level throughout the week so I think I am going to still go bi weekly with the IM injections.. I will use my small 28g pins and still go IM. I have a Dr appt this weds to go over the BW so we will see what he says.. Maybe ramp it up to 140-150 mg weekly.. Will update this thread after.

[GFA]

I agree with you that we would like a more linear serum level throughout the week so I think I am going to still go bi weekly with the IM injections.. I will use my small 28g pins and still go IM. I have a Dr appt this weds to go over the BW so we will see what he says.. Maybe ramp it up to 140-150 mg weekly.. Will update this thread after.

Why not just stick with 100mg IM? Its possible you will get a much higher test level just by switching to IM with the same dosage. Plus it will help with our experiment to keep the values the same

[steroid.com 1]

For some of us it appears SQ has a much lower absorption rate. I started a thread with lab work for people that have tried both.

Exactly, that's the point but the serum levels will at some point reach an optimal level albeit a bit longer for some men versus IM.

The esters are cleaved pretty much about the same rate IM versus SQ but there's enough evidence that SQ cleaves at a little longer rate which is a good thing if you don't want to take an AI and want more stable serum levels.

We all metabolize differently so absorption rates for one man won't be the same for another...we're all different.

Nevertheless, slow absorption rats or not, at some point the serum levels will reach their optimal levels whether or not it's IM or SQ.

[Ryanmcd]

I felt like crap on SQ and went back to IM, no bloodwork to show but I know when I take naps again and dick is broke my test was low lol.

I did 100 a week IM and hit 750 on the day of my shot right before it, I would just play with the dose

if your day 7 test level is 500 and you are on 100 try 110-120 and see if you FEEL better, I dont chase numbers anymore I know well enough how I feel and feel best about 800 day 7 on weekly shots.

[38onTRT]

I will.. For now I will stick with 100mg IM however if the Doc wants me to go up a bit, then at least I have his permission to do so.. For the sake of the test I will remain at 100mg.. I feel pretty good right now so I am good..

[steroid.com 1]

Why not just stick with 100mg IM? Its possible you will get a much higher test level just by switching to IM with the same dosage. Plus it will help with our experiment to keep the values the same

Explain this statement to me.

The body metabolizes Testosterone in the blood stream at about the same rate regardless of injection protocol. Just because a man injects SQ and may possible get a slightly lower absorption rate at some point the testosterone will make its way into the bloodstream where it will begin to be metabolized just as an IM injection.

SQ may just take a bit longer to get blood level serum levels to stabilize but I can't imagine it's of any significant amount to be honest.

I have yet to see any evidence that IM versus SQ will increase serum levels when all other things are equal.

Hell, if it did I would go IM all the way and reduce my dosage amount and save some money

[GFA]

Explain this statement to me.

The body metabolizes Testosterone in the blood stream at about the same rate regardless of injection protocol. Just because a man injects SQ and may possible get a slightly lower absorption rate at some point the testosterone will make its way into the bloodstream where it will begin to be metabolized just as an IM injection.

SQ may just take a bit longer to get blood level serum levels to stabilize but I can't imagine it's of any significant amount to be honest.

I have yet to see any evidence that IM versus SQ will increase serum levels when all other things are equal.

Hell, if it did I would go IM all the way and reduce my dosage amount and save some money

I did SQ for 6 weeks. Test levels dropped in half.

Lost energy
No more oily skin
Lost strength
Lower libido

That is why I am trying to get as much information as possible from the community to see the impact of SQ vs IM with all other things being equal.

It appears that SQ injections are being metabolized at a much higher rate than IM in some people.

[Ryanmcd]

I will.. For now I will stick with 100mg IM however if the Doc wants me to go up a bit, then at least I have his permission to do so.. For the sake of the test I will remain at 100mg.. I feel pretty good right now so I am good..

That's all that matters, I told Dr John I wanted to try Sub-Q I felt worse then IM but I would rather do Sub Q to be honest but for me a little more pain for 2-3 min a week vs feeling like shit is a no brainer.

[GFA]

That's all that matters, I told Dr John I wanted to try Sub-Q I felt worse then IM but I would rather do Sub Q to be honest but for me a little more pain for 2-3 min a week vs feeling like shit is a no brainer.

I added your quote to the other thread, no SQ numbers to go with but its still relevant.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...(with-labwork)

[steroid.com 1]

I did SQ for 6 weeks. Test levels dropped in half.

Lost energy
No more oily skin
Lost strength
Lower libido

That is why I am trying to get as much information as possible from the community to see the impact of SQ vs IM with all other things being equal.

It appears that SQ injections are being metabolized at a much higher rate than IM in some people.

That's amazing, it dropped in half?

We're you measuring your dosages correctly? Did you switch to an insulin pin when you went to SQ?

There is no physiological reason that such a delta would take place just because you went from IM to SQ.

If that were the case for even some men you wouldn't see SQ injections as a viable injection protocol for men.

Some of the top TRT Physicians make it their primary injection protocol for all the good reasons.

I suspect something else is at play here...like I said, it makes no sense from a physiological perspective for there to such a dramatic difference in serum levels.

[38onTRT]

I'll be the lab rat.. 6 weeks from today I will get my blood drawn again and post my results. I pinned 50mg IM today and will continue to do so twice weekly until my results come back after getting tested Feb 25th or so.. I honestly dont think there is going to be much difference... 100mg Test Cyp. weekly is not that much, and shouldn't warrant a BW result of 800, IMHO... We will see tho, if it does jump up to 700+ I will honestly be shocked...

That's amazing, it dropped in half?

We're you measuring your dosages correctly? Did you switch to an insulin pin when you went to SQ?

There is no physiological reason that such a delta would take place just because you went from IM to SQ.

If that were the case for even some men you wouldn't see SQ injections as a viable injection protocol for men.

Some of the top TRT Physicians make it their primary injection protocol for all the good reasons.

I suspect something else is at play here...like I said, it makes no sense from a physiological perspective for there to such a dramatic difference in serum levels.

[steroid.com 1]

I've studied TRT protocols in men ad nauseam over the years and I've never came across anything like this in any paper or study.

Granted SQ Testosterone injections are new but men and women have been injecting SQ with many other drugs like insulin for decades and I've still not read anything like this happening.

100 mg of Test Cyp is 100 mg of Test Cyp no matter if you inject IM or SQ.

In any body tissue the Test Cyp is going to get make it into the bloodstream, albeit at different absorption rates, but' it's going to make it in one way or the other.

Barring that you are not dosing incorrectly, it begs the question as to what is happening to you physiologically that SQ injections drops your serum levels to half the same value versus IM injections.

When you did your labs and you saw the drop did any other lab change significantly like E2 or SHBG?

Did your change your diet, your training, new supplements added, new meds added...did anything else change during this time?

Honestly, this is a first for me and I'd like to understand more...it's an interesting case.

[GFA]

I've studied TRT protocols in men ad nauseam over the years and I've never came across anything like this in any paper or study.

Granted SQ Testosterone injections are new but men and women have been injecting SQ with many other drugs like insulin for decades and I've still not read anything like this happening.

100 mg of Test Cyp is 100 mg of Test Cyp no matter if you inject IM or SQ.

In any body tissue the Test Cyp is going to get make it into the bloodstream, albeit at different absorption rates, but' it's going to make it in one way or the other.

Barring that you are not dosing incorrectly, it begs the question as to what is happening to you physiologically that SQ injections drops your serum levels to half the same value versus IM injections.

When you did your labs and you saw the drop did any other lab change significantly like E2 or SHBG?

Did your change your diet, your training, new supplements added, new meds added...did anything else change during this time?

Honestly, this is a first for me and I'd like to understand more...it's an interesting case.

Here is a thread. SQ doesn't appear to work. My guess, you inject into your fat and its not getting into your bloodstream. Its being metabolized. Just like if you eat testosterone. I did SQ injections for 2 months. My Total test dropped in half.

Others have reported similar findings as seen in this post.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...77#post6339877

[38onTRT]

Had a Dr appt today to go over my results of the Labs I posted above.. He upped my dosage to 150mg weekly, yay me! Looks like I wont be participating in this as I would like to take him up on his offer... 486 Total T is still a bit low for me.

[GFA]

Had a Dr appt today to go over my results of the Labs I posted above.. He upped my dosage to 150mg weekly, yay me! Looks like I wont be participating in this as I would like to take him up on his offer... 486 Total T is still a bit low for me.

Where are you currently injecting? Your total test seems low for both 100mg test and hcg . Maybe try in a less fatty area like thigh or delt to see if that makes a difference.

I'm now curious if the injection site helps with absorption SQ since IM my TT is 800ish and SQ <400 with 100mg a week.

[38onTRT]

I was injecting in my belly area, where there is quite a bit of fat tissue.. Now I am going into each delt..

Where are you currently injecting? Your total test seems low for both 100mg test and hcg . Maybe try in a less fatty area like thigh or delt to see if that makes a difference.

I'm now curious if the injection site helps with absorption SQ since IM my TT is 800ish and SQ <400 with 100mg a week.