Cycling TRT ??

**Vinman** · 01-15-2013, 11:37 PM

I have been on TRT for almost 2 years now and have a question regarding coming off/taking a break from the therapy, and if its advisable.

I know guys who were on the therapy and then come off for 4-6 weeks, use Clomid/HCG to bring back their natural test levels, and then re-start the TRT. They claim it helps restore their test receptors and they get better results with TRT.

Is this just a bodybuilder mentality or are they on to something ??

I have had good results so far with TRT, so is this advisable ??

**APIs** · 01-16-2013, 10:36 AM

Sounds like typical bro-science. I've never heard of this in TRT, but others will chime in...

**Far from massive** · 01-16-2013, 10:42 AM

I have heard of coming off to procreate, other than that... Broscience... Bro!

**Vinman** · 01-16-2013, 11:26 AM

thanks for the input guys, there is one other question I have...although I have had good results from TRT, the only negative I've noticed is I am starting to see my hair thin a bit in the front. I have no one on either side of my family with MPB (both grandfathers died with full heads of hair), so I assume my DHT levels are getting too high.

I've lowered my Arimidex dosage and have added some saw palmetto to combat the DHT, is there anything else I can do to lower my DHT, and get my hair back to normal ??

**bigboy67** · 01-16-2013, 11:35 AM

1. That is serious bro-science bullshit... That is what a bodybuilder would do after a cycle of injectables. But the REASON he would do that is so that he could kickstart his body into producing its own Testosterone again. With TRT, it is for LIFE, you no longer utilize your body's natural production, instead opting for exogenous injections/creams

2. I impregnated my wife when I had a Test score of 216 before TRT, and I impregnated her after being on TRT for about a year.... another bro science recommendation

3. There is a shampoo (Nizoral, if memory serves) that is used to topically reduce DHT in the scalp and can help with hair loss from DHT

**Vinman** · 01-16-2013, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by bigboy67

1. That is serious bro-science bullshit... That is what a bodybuilder would do after a cycle of injectables. But the REASON he would do that is so that he could kickstart his body into producing its own Testosterone again. With TRT, it is for LIFE, you no longer utilize your body's natural production, instead opting for exogenous injections/creams

2. I impregnated my wife when I had a Test score of 216 before TRT, and I impregnated her after being on TRT for about a year.... another bro science recommendation

3. There is a shampoo (Nizoral, if memory serves) that is used to topically reduce DHT in the scalp and can help with hair loss from DHT

Thanks !! I also forgot to mention that along with the thinning of my hair in the front also came unwanted hair on my upper neck and back that I never had and some acne as well. Granted, for almost the first 2 years on TRT it was never an issue, until now

**SEOINAGE** · 01-16-2013, 12:21 PM

what are your test and free test numbers like as well as dht? My dht is mid range and have had only minor hair increases. tiny extra on my chest, but I slowly increase in the amount I have over the years anyways, just little by little, so it seems slightly accelerated but hardly even noticeable.

**Vinman** · 01-16-2013, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

what are your test and free test numbers like as well as dht? My dht is mid range and have had only minor hair increases. tiny extra on my chest, but I slowly increase in the amount I have over the years anyways, just little by little, so it seems slightly accelerated but hardly even noticeable.

From my last bloodwork in November-

My Total Test- 865
Free Test- 235.3
DHT , for some reason, was not taken, but it was 108 from the bloodwork before that in March.
Total Estrogen- less than 50
Estradiol- 37

I am taking 100 mg of test cream daily, 1/2 cc of Cypionate twice per week, and .50 mg of Arimidex three times per week. Since I've had the dht concerns, I've cut my Arimidex dose in half, to .25 mg three times per week

**HRTstudent** · 01-16-2013, 11:47 PM

TRT is lifelong and you do not cycle it. There is no benefit other than speculation.

I've never heard a patient report that they feel better when coming off TRT for the brief period.

My guess is that it's a relic of traditional bodybuilding use. Just a guess...

**Vettester** · 01-17-2013, 12:14 AM

One would get prescribed TRT, because they are diagnosed with low testosterone . So how does it work that someone would come off of it to restore it's natural state with Clomid? If that were possible, then the doctor should have been doing that in the first place.

Yeah, it's bro science, and there's getting to be too many bros that view HRT as a novelty, flavor of the day if you will.

**HRTstudent** · 01-17-2013, 04:07 AM

oh I think we are just seeing the start of HRT as a novelty... they started to advertise in the USA quite a bit now. I read recently about Canada giving Abbott a hard time because the way they were marketing androgel . They were trying to downplay the seriousness of it... ya think?

But regardless, big pharma is going to do what big pharma can to make a buck, but the attention is probably good as far as getting more doctors knowledgeable on TRT and more money funding research in the field.

**APIs** · 01-17-2013, 08:38 AM

With these Androgel commercials, can you imagine how many men try it for awhile then stop because they're not committed or tired of the applications? I guarantee the majority of Doctors dont inform them it's for life and probably just let them fall off the radar. After ceasing treatment, these men end up feeling even worse and are probably clueless as to why...

**jj341** · 01-17-2013, 08:16 PM

You are correct. My GP prescribed Androderm for me and he thought that I could take it as long as I wanted and that when I stopped my natural production would start right up naturally. When my balls started to ache and I learned on this forum that my balls were shrinking and I needed hcg I went to him and he didn't know what I was talking about. I bet there's alot of guys out there with shrinking balls that are saying WTF.

Originally Posted by APIs

With these Androgel commercials, can you imagine how many men try it for awhile then stop because they're not committed or tired of the applications? I guarantee the majority of Doctors dont inform them it's for life and probably just let them fall off the radar. After ceasing treatment, these men end up feeling even worse and are probably clueless as to why...

**kelkel** · 01-17-2013, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Vinman

From my last bloodwork in November-

My Total Test- 865
Free Test- 235.3
DHT , for some reason, was not taken, but it was 108 from the bloodwork before that in March.
Total Estrogen- less than 50
Estradiol- 37

I am taking 100 mg of test cream daily, 1/2 cc of Cypionate twice per week, and .50 mg of Arimidex three times per week. Since I've had the dht concerns, I've cut my Arimidex dose in half, to .25 mg three times per week

Ok, why are you running both injectables and transdermals at the same time out of curiosity. I'll be shocked if that's prescribed by your doctor as a protocol. But anyway, transdermals are known to elevate DHT far more than injections. Not saying DHT's a bad thing because it's not, just pointing out a fact. Drop the transdermal and your DHT will decline quickly, IMHO.

**Vinman** · 01-17-2013, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Ok, why are you running both injectables and transdermals at the same time out of curiosity. I'll be shocked if that's prescribed by your doctor as a protocol. But anyway, transdermals are known to elevate DHT far more than injections. Not saying DHT's a bad thing because it's not, just pointing out a fact. Drop the transdermal and your DHT will decline quickly, IMHO.

my doc has me doing both, I've read enough here now to realize its probably not the best thing to do. If I drop the cream, how much injectable should be increased per week to keep my test levels optimum ??

**testluva** · 01-18-2013, 12:45 AM

As you get older you really need to watch your DHT levels. Enlarged prostate or BPH can happen. You need to add a DHT blocker to protect your prostate. Also watch your PSA levels via blood work every couple if months. I had to learn the hard way.

**Vinman** · 01-18-2013, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by testluva

As you get older you really need to watch your DHT levels. Enlarged prostate or BPH can happen. You need to add a DHT blocker to protect your prostate. Also watch your PSA levels via blood work every couple if months. I had to learn the hard way.

What do you suggest as a DHT blocker ??

Also guys, would using Clomid help with any hair loss, or shrinking of the testicles (like HCG would) ??

I've never used HCG in the 2 years I've been on TRT.....never even thought to until I starting reading this forum

**kelkel** · 01-18-2013, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Vinman

my doc has me doing both, I've read enough here now to realize its probably not the best thing to do. If I drop the cream, how much injectable should be increased per week to keep my test levels optimum ??

Only BW can answer that. Keep in mind you're not a number. It's how you feel so try and get past the numbers stuff so much. They are just a guide. When you get off the cream and retest I'll bet you'll see a marked decrease in your DHT level.

**Vinman** · 01-18-2013, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Only BW can answer that. Keep in mind you're not a number. It's how you feel so try and get past the numbers stuff so much. They are just a guide. When you get off the cream and retest I'll bet you'll see a marked decrease in your DHT level.

Thanks for the advice !! I will let you know my numbers when I get the BW done.

I feel great now, lol....minus a bit of thinning hair in the front and a slightly elevated PSA level (1.4)

Whats your take on using Clomid to counteract some of these issues ??