Progesterone vs Arimidex to deal with E2

[Snorky]

Hi all,

Does anyone have any info on the relative benefits of progesterone vs arimidex to treat high estradiol secondary to trt?

I am in the process of fine tuning my trt program. I started off 4 months ago with low T, low Free T, low estradiol and lowish LH, so I think that means I was hypogonadotropic? (maybe I could have gotten away with just hCG at that stage?) I started on test E 250mg IMI 1x fortnightly with good effect for the first 6-8 weeks or so despite some nipple sensitivity. After this I dropped back to 125mg test E IMI 1 x weekly, my balls shrank, and returned to almost like I was prior to trt (flat, lethargic, irritable etc). My initial bw results were (sorry, SI units):


IGF-1 19 nmol/L (11-31)

TSH 1.3 mU/L (0.3-4.0)

Total PSA 0.71 ug/L (0.25-3.0)

Cortisol 333 nmol/L (160-650)

Oestradiol LOW 44 pmol/L (55-165)

DHEAS 4.6 umol/L (1.2 9.0)

Testosterone LOW 9.3nmol/L (11.0-40.0)
SHGB 25 (11.0-70.0)
Calc free Test. LOW 206pmol/L (260-740)

LH 2 U/L ( <9 )

I don't have my latest exact bw numbers to post yet, but Estradiol (>165), Total T (>40) and free T (740) are all now HIGH (again in SI units). My doc has put me on 50mg pregnenolone + 25mg DHEA and asked me to dial back the test E injections to 100 mg weekly and is considering hCG as well in the near future.

He's also putting me on 100mg daily of progesterone to deal with the high estradiol. His opinion on dealing with high E2 is:
(a) if I took zinc, the amount needed to be effective as an AI would be too high for long term use and would stuff up other mineral levels,
(b) chrysin is too unpredictable and not really effective.
(c) he uses Arimidex more as a last resort, so we went with:
(d) the progesterone caps.

He says that it's not really an AI but tends to favour conversion of T to estrone (I think) rather than estradiol and it's also quite good for a sound night's sleep. I was a bit freaked out when I read that it was also used by M2F transgender people to grow tits, tho WTF!!!

So I'm interested in any thoughts or experiences that you may have on the pros and cons of Adex vs progesterone?

thanks

[HRTstudent]

progesterone would not be an effective method to combat high E2. if anything, I imagine, it would make symptoms worse.

You would be better off lowering the T peaks, taking an AI, or a combination of both.

[Snorky]

thanks HRT,

Why do you think it wouln't be effective or make symptoms worse? (yeh, growing tits would be bad, but apparently M2F transexuals have to take huge amouts of estrogen as well). You could very well be right, although progesterone use to combat high estrogen is apparently not uncommon. The following blurb is from the LEF fact sheet on progesterone:

Progesterone and Men

Typically thought of as a female hormone, progesterone can also be an invaluable tool in hormone modulation in men. Progesterone is manufactured in men by the adrenal glands and testes. Just as estrogen dominance can severely affect the quality of life for women, excess estrogen can be equally detrimental to men. Elevated estrogen in men has been linked to gynecomastia (breast enlargement in men), decreased sexual function, weight gain, and prostate enlargement.46-48

Benign prostatic hyperplasia seems to be related to long-term exposure of the prostate gland to the strong androgen dihydrotestosterone and possibly to estrogens. In fact, the late Dr. John R. Lee, considered a pioneer in natural progesterone therapy, believed that excessive exposure to estrogen was a primary cause of prostate enlargement and prostate cancer. In addition to counterbalancing the negative aspects of estrogen, progesterone may also inhibit 5-alpha-reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone.49

I guess I'll find out in a few weeks, but still keen for any one elses experiences. If it doesn't turn out right, the doc I'm with doesn't have any real problems shifting to anastrozole.

[HRTstudent]

As far as I know, most men don't "need" to limit the conversion of testosterone to DHT. DHT is very important for men.

I don't know anywhere in male HRT where progesterone is used to combat high estrogen as you say. It certainly is nothing like anastrozole.