My new Protocol

[VTX1800]

Not only are your testosterone numbers pretty dismal, but your thyroid probably isn't running optimally either.

My PCP assured me that my thyroid was functioning normally. My TRT doc is waitin on another round of BW before she addresses thyroid concern.

[VTX1800]

BW results have been delayed since the doc was sick last week and holding a seminar this week. I'm eager to see what my estradiol levels were prior to starting my TRT therapy. It's been nearly 2 full weeks since I started my therapy. I can rally see a huge change in my overall energy levels. Im not out of it, and lethargic like I use to be and my a.m. Workouts are much more intense. Sex life is a little better. The wife compliments how hard my erections are now. Stamina in the bedroom has also greatly increased. My mental fog has definitely lifted and my focus on the job is much more precise I've lost 6 pounds and Im feelin pretty damn good about myself!!!!

[Rusty11]

That's always nice to hear

[VTX1800]

That's always nice to hear

Thanks for the reply Rusty.

[VTX1800]

Can anyone give me some advice on test injection schedule (am or pm?)
Being in my 2nd week of shots, I've been pinning Sunday AM and then Wendesday AM. I held off this morning thinking it would be better to wait and inject this evening to get the most out of Sundays shot. I've read and seen that others such as gdevine and kel are alternating am/pm injections. Would it be in my best interest to follow through with a Sunday A.m. Then a Wednesday PM injection?
Any input as always will be greatly appreciated.

[Trific]

Would it be in my best interest to follow through with a Sunday A.m. Then a Wednesday PM injection?

That works good that way then you are always pinning on the same days and times every week...easier to remember then and it's 3.5 days between pins.

[VTX1800]

Ok my BW is in, this wasn't a complete panel just BW that was checked prior to my TRT start and these weren't tested by my PCP(which is the reason why, they weren't listed previously.
Labcorp...

E2 sensitive 13.4 (7.6-42.6) NORMAL
LH 0.5 (1.7-8.6) LOW
SH 0.7 (1.5-12.4)LOW
Prolactin 17.3 (4.0-15.2)HIGH

Any thoughts??? I'm really doubting the use of my AI now. I will continue to run it until I go back for my 6 week test which is 4 weeks away. If my e2 is too low obviously I will request to drop the AI from protocol.
I would really like some feedback on my low LH and SH as well as the high Prolactin. I need to do some more research into these panels and how they function. (Yes, it's all new to me)

[steroid.com 1]

Ok my BW is in, this wasn't a complete panel just BW that was checked prior to my TRT start and these weren't tested by my PCP(which is the reason why, they weren't listed previously.
Labcorp...

E2 sensitive 13.4 (7.6-42.6) NORMAL
Low. Consider adjusting your AI or stopping all together and keep an eye on any elevated E2 symptoms.
LH 0.5 (1.7-8.6) LOW
SH 0.7 (1.5-12.4)LOW
Both are tanked because you are HPTA suppressed and normal.
Prolactin 17.3 (4.0-15.2)HIGH
Right, this is elevated but it could be just the moment. Do you see a pattern of elevated Prolactin levels? Could point to a Pituitary tumor. Cabergoline can bring this down. Elevated Prolactin levels have some not so good symptoms one being decreased libido.

Any thoughts??? I'm really doubting the use of my AI now. I will continue to run it until I go back for my 6 week test which is 4 weeks away. If my e2 is too low obviously I will request to drop the AI from protocol.
I would really like some feedback on my low LH and SH as well as the high Prolactin. I need to do some more research into these panels and how they function. (Yes, it's all new to me)

Bold.

[Ryanmcd]

Ok my BW is in, this wasn't a complete panel just BW that was checked prior to my TRT start and these weren't tested by my PCP(which is the reason why, they weren't listed previously.
Labcorp...

E2 sensitive 13.4 (7.6-42.6) NORMAL
LH 0.5 (1.7-8.6) LOW
SH 0.7 (1.5-12.4)LOW
Prolactin 17.3 (4.0-15.2)HIGH

Any thoughts??? I'm really doubting the use of my AI now. I will continue to run it until I go back for my 6 week test which is 4 weeks away. If my e2 is too low obviously I will request to drop the AI from protocol.
I would really like some feedback on my low LH and SH as well as the high Prolactin. I need to do some more research into these panels and how they function. (Yes, it's all new to me)

I would NEVER use a AI off the bat and both my docs agree Crisler and my local doc, no need to make it more complex then needed, I never needed a AI and I tried it and crashed my E2 to 3 and felt like shit. Just give it time and use it if needed. I think most people never need a AI if they are in normal ranges.

[VTX1800]

I would NEVER use a AI off the bat and both my docs agree Crisler and my local doc, no need to make it more complex then needed, I never needed a AI and I tried it and crashed my E2 to 3 and felt like shit. Just give it time and use it if needed. I think most people never need a AI if they are in normal ranges.

I've been on the AI for only 2 weeks. (Taken it 5 times) do you think it would be on my best interest to STOP AI now? Or keep taking it and just wait for my next BW in 4 weeks then adjust accordingly? I will find it hard to tell my Doc I stopped taking the AI prescribed bc I felt that my estrogen levels were already in control. ? What Im getting at us I don't want to go against what the doc ordered, she may take offense, then again she may not? I agree with you, I should have just waited prior to starting on AI , however, I was just going by the docs protocol she drew up. (She wanted me on hcg 600iu twice a week) although Im taking 250iu EOD thanks to gdevine.

[VTX1800]

Bold.

After researching the high prolactin levels, I too found the pituitary tumor info. An MRI may be in my near future. Hopefully my level will decrease when I return for Follow up BW.
This is my first go around with BW, so elevated prolactin levels I can't comment on. I can only hope my HPTA will get a quick start soon. As for libido, yeah I've been out of it for nearly 4 years. I waited WAY too long to check into it and do something about it. That's why I'm here...and I appreciate you guys taking the time to comment on my post

[VTX1800]

After further thought, My E2 level was checked after I was using androgel 1.62% 2 pumps per day. With it being low I do believe my best choice is to ditch the AI for now and explain my situation to m dr. During my 6 week follow up. I sure don't want to take a chance on crashing and feeling even worse than I did a few weeks ago. Now I gotta do some research to figure out red flags for high E2. I doubt I will grow a pair of tits in the next 4 weeks before my next BW.

[steroid.com 1]

After further thought, My E2 level was checked after I was using androgel 1.62% 2 pumps per day. With it being low I do believe my best choice is to ditch the AI for now and explain my situation to m dr. During my 6 week follow up. I sure don't want to take a chance on crashing and feeling even worse than I did a few weeks ago. Now I gotta do some research to figure out red flags for high E2. I doubt I will grow a pair of tits in the next 4 weeks before my next BW.

I think your assessment here is totally sound.

Bet you feel better when E2 gets into the high 20's or low 30's.

[darkmatter22]

Ive eebn following your post for a few weeks, Glad to see you are doing better I switched docs an after 4 weeks demanded an E2 test which he didnt think I needed but I had symptoms- Nothing chest related either but as i though results came back an I was at an 86 range (2-52) I get injections and really dont feel much of a change so im on my own pursuit to find the sweet spot and the guys say here. I do know signs arent just in the nipples an feet you can feel :

E2 goes up, it "makes you feel like crap and kills
your sex life". As E2 levels go up, SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin)
levels tend to go up, too. SHBG attaches itself to testosterone and
basically makes the testosterone useless. In other words, you can have
"good" levels of testosterone , but if your SHBG is too high, you still
feel like you have low testosterone .

[VTX1800]

Thanks for your input. I did research e2 levels and how your body responds to high and low and from what I've learned the only way to really know is by spending $$$. It seems that high and low symptoms seem significantly similar. I'm not sure if my symptoms are more from low t, low E or a little bit of
Both. I've been experiencing sensitive nips for about the pad week and a half but they are much better now. I assumed it was due to the start of TRT and my body adjusting to rising (and lowering) hormones. it's a Unique balance, that's for sure. It's like working a damn puzzle, u think your on the right track then all of a sudden you realize your not even close to obtaining the full picture.

As gd mentioned, Im really hoping I can balance out my e levels in mod 20s and start to feel much better. My pocket will feel better to because I won't have to spend money on 2 months supply of AI. I still have 6 weeks worth if I need it since I will stop taking the AI as of today.

[VTX1800]

gDevine, I'm hoping you can give me some feedback on this in relation to my LOW E2 levels. I've noticed for the past week and a half that morning wood isn't there anymore neither are the random boners through out the day. now when I was on Androgel (only 2 pumps a day) The damn thing rose from the dead when the wind blew. Now that I've started injections, he and the AI its just not been the same. So is this specifically related to the AI keeping my e2 level TOO low?

[VTX1800]

This Sunday will make the start of week 4. I'm starting to feel better, not as fatigued during the day, particularly around lunch time. My workouts are where I really know can tell a difference. Muscles are somewhat harder and all my lifts have increased. Libido is still non existent, so I'm really hoping my sexual desire returns soon. Caught a little Mornin wood this morning so that's a good sign. Had more wood on androgel than I do on cyp. Will be posting my BW after 6 week checkup, should have results in hand bout 3 weeks from now. So that's my thoughts as I end week 3. Def. no magic bullet here! Lol

[VTX1800]

Have a quick question for u guys, when my 6th week BW checkup is due, it falls on a Thursday. My schedule test cyp injection is Wednesday PM, should I go ahead with the injection or wait until Thursday PM after my BW? I really would hate for the doc to lower my my dose but then again I would hate to screw up my BW. Let me know what you all think, thanks!

[Trific]

Have a quick question for u guys, when my 6th week BW checkup is due, it falls on a Thursday. My schedule test cyp injection is Wednesday PM, should I go ahead with the injection or wait until Thursday PM after my BW? I really would hate for the doc to lower my my dose but then again I would hate to screw up my BW. Let me know what you all think, thanks!

Since you are taking 200mg/wk, I'd probably move the dose to after the BW and just put it in your record someplace that you drew blood 7-8 days after last pin for the BW and then I'd just go back to Wed eve pins after that.

That way your BW is still taken at a trough level and won't scare doc. Had you thought of it a day or so ago you could have just pinned yourself one more days dose and moved your pins to thur.

[VTX1800]

Since you are taking 200mg/wk, I'd probably move the dose to after the BW and just put it in your record someplace that you drew blood 7-8 days after last pin for the BW and then I'd just go back to Wed eve pins after that.

That way your BW is still taken at a trough level and won't scare doc. Had you thought of it a day or so ago you could have just pinned yourself one more days dose and moved your pins to thur.

My appt. is still a couple weeks away, (April 4th) So that week I should pin Monday AM then Thursday PM... Good call T, thanks for your feedback.

[Trific]

Now see that you're pinning twice a week and have some time to adjust.

Well then I'd make my last pin be 3.5 days before the blood draw to get your lowest test level.

[VTX1800]

So here I am, on week 5 of treatment and it wasn't until last week that I started to feel ALOT better. My gains in the gym keep improving and My weight has gone up 6 pounds. My pants seem to be bigger around the waste so hopefully my weight increase is muscle. My diet is not too clean and I really need to get my bf down to 15% from 25%.
My sex drive still needs some help and that I will discuss next week with the doc for my 6 wk checkup.
Starting last week, I noticed an increase of acne of my shoulders back and neck. This concerns me bc 6 years ago when I came off a 16 week aas cycle I broke out BAD BaD Baaaad!! I don't want to go through that again.

Several weeks ago I read a thread in the aas forum about a type of shampoo that guys were using on their backs chest and shoulders to clean up acne. They swore by it, they would lather and leave it on for 2 mi . Then rinse. However I can't remember what it was called. I've searched google and this site and can't find the post. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or anyone have any other solutions? Right now it's a mild case so I need to treat it and try to prevent the acne from gettin worse and scarring. I use axe body wash With axe lupa type thing to lather with. My face never broke out in the past always my back and shoulders. I guess I should hit up Wally World and grab that expensive ass $10 soap for acne. I just wish I could find out the name of that shampoo so I cod give it a shot and see I it helps with acne.

I've also switched up my hcg routine rather than inject EOD at 250iu, I'm now injecting everyday at 150iu. I feel like the hcg everyday gives me a better quality I life feeling but the. Again I. Sure it's in my head.

I will be sure to post all my BW after next week, I'm curious to see where my test levels are at now.

[Trific]

I think you should lower your test dose...I think less test = less acne....but your mileage may vary

[VTX1800]

T, Im hesitant to lower my dose without seein where my test levels are. obviously one of the draw backs of test is acne I'm just trying to find a soap that would be more beneficial than just axe body wash. My BW will be drawn at the 6 week mark which is next Thursday. My first BW revealed overall test at 50 I'm sure the acne is my body responding to an increase of testosterone . Going from 50 to 600-700 is a Huge jump so I expected some acne I jus wana stay on top and control it a much as possible. (600-700 test levels is just my example)
I'm still searching for the thread about the shampoo the body builders were using that wiped acne away after 2 weeks. I will post the name of it here IF I can find it.

[VTX1800]

FOUND IT!!! Shampoo called Nizoral that contains ketoconazole. Here is a link to the thread...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...rience-on-Acne

Going to grab a bottle after work, will let you all know all it works in a couple Of weeks. Again, Im not covered in acne. Just several big ole monster test zits on the upper back an shoulders, a few blackheads on chest all due to the increase in oil on my skin caused by the test that my body Hasn't had in years!

[Trific]

I agree that you don't want to change dose before getting BW....I was just planting a seed for when you do get it.

[wannabeme]

Not only are your testosterone numbers pretty dismal, but your thyroid probably isn't running optimally either.

Standard lab range for TSH is .4-4.5, however most practitioners up on the latestest data use .3-2.0 as the optimal range. His TSH is only 0.1 above that optimal range. Lab range for Free T4 is 0.8-1.8, again, optimal being 1.1-1.8. His T4 is 1.08, .02 below optimal. Seems borderline at best, but there is no doubt some mileage on the thyroid as it is not responding well to the TSH. If taking the smallest dose of dessicated thyroid keeps him in the range, he can enjoy some additional fat loss and maybe other benefits - energy, cognitive, mood - thyroid really is the wonder drug if you're indeed off. This case is close but I agree would be good to try as thyroid meds are CHEAP and have been used forever, and well-understood. Good catch!!!

[VTX1800]

What meds should I ask my dr. For next week regarding thyroid issues? Or what meds do you think I should look into to purchase online? Body fat isn't exactly dropping off like I thought, O get cardio in 4 days a week, I'm extremely active and I track every calorie I put in my body. Only 5 weeks in on TRT but still I thought it would be much easier to loose the stubborn beer belly. I'm all in on trying to get my thyroid running better. Are talking t3 or t4 pills??

[wannabeme]

What meds should I ask my dr. For next week regarding thyroid issues? Or what meds do you think I should look into to purchase online? Body fat isn't exactly dropping off like I thought, O get cardio in 4 days a week, I'm extremely active and I track every calorie I put in my body. Only 5 weeks in on TRT but still I thought it would be much easier to loose the stubborn beer belly. I'm all in on trying to get my thyroid running better. Are talking t3 or t4 pills??

I'm no expert, however this is about the same amount my wife was off IIRC and they prescribed a "half grain" of Armour Thyroid daily. Armour Thyroid is dessicated pig thyroid that has all the T4/T3/T2 and even T1 though T1's action is unknown and T2 is only starting to be understood - "seemed" like the best option to us after reading up on it though some people might prefer synthetic T4/T3 combo. She's dropped fat fast without diet or exercise modification and reports less mental fogginess and forgetfulness, and more energy and maybe a bit more positive mood. The ranges the clinic gave as optimal are the same as in a book I read recently "Complete Idiot's Guide to Thyroid" - a VERY good read by the way. There are some contraindications for the meds, your doctor should know. Just like Test, if you are at the tail end of the 'optimum range', or just outside it, and a little tweak can improve your life, might be something to think about.

[VTX1800]

Your input is greatly appreciated! I've been collecting notes and facts from responses that I plan on discussing with the dr about and this will def. be on top of my list. Thank you!

[wannabeme]

You're welcome! Be sure to get a followup test after being on the meds a month to make sure you're in the range. Ideally you should get reverse T3 and thyroid antibody tests as well, though I'm not sure your doc would know what to do with those results and you might need to see an endo. See what he says.

[VTX1800]

Anybody have experience with Nizoral that contains ketoconazole??? Shampoo that's found to help with body acne...anyone tried this stuff?

[Trific]

Anybody have experience with Nizoral that contains ketoconazole??? Shampoo that's found to help with body acne...anyone tried this stuff?

For more attention you could start a new thread with Nizoral in the header, maybe someone would more easily see it and respond.

[VTX1800]

T, I took your advise, good idea!

[VTX1800]

So tomorrow is my 6 week BW and check up since starting TRT. Let me start by saying I feel like complete SHIT!!!! I'm not sure why, for the past two weeks the couch has been my best friend. I feel worse than before I started TRT. Definitely plan on letting the doc know what's going on. I'm wondering if my Thyroid is making me feel run down?
I'm so lethargic and my sex drive is inexistent. I can't loose that stubborn body fat to get me down from 23 to 15%. I'm literally dragging my ass in the gym everyday. I HUD expected to be a new person by this time after going on TRT. I've read all about how guys are reaching youthful levels and feel great, well I'm not buying it. I've been a bitch ever since I started this TRt. Will post my BW whenever I get it.

[VTX1800]

Alright guys, been a while since I've updated my thread. I'm on my iPhone (as usual) so bare with me on spelling and what not.
Im now in week 7 of TRT, I must admit I've made some drastic improvements just within the past week and a half. My sex drive is slowly but surely creeping up and my fatigue issues are GONE. I no longer seek a nap on my lunch break and I don't need an afternoon nap prior to my cardio sessions mid evening. My gains in the gym are just crazy!!!! And my waist is def. shrinking. Still need to focus on getting rid of stubborn body day in the chest and stomach. Prov. around 22% now.
I called my doc this morning for a referral to get a semen analysis and the nurse was able to give me a sneak peek at my BW that was take. Last Thursday. My FS and FSH levels are not back yet. She forgot to add them so they won't be in until Monday.

Test 1,148 (348-1197 ng/dl) L was 50
Free T 21.4(9.3-26.5) was 1.4
E 23.8. Was 13 don't have the sensitive assay ranges but used labcorp.

My estrogen is exactly where I want it, taking .5 mg of anastrozole day after injections twice a week.
My test levels are huge compared to my starting point 7 weeks ago.
I have yet to speak with my doc regarding the high test levels but the nurse said she was very well pleased and surprised that my levels are now in the normal range. Im anxious to see if she lowers my cyp dose or keeps me where Im at.
I started a one a day multi vitamin with no iron, 10,000 IU of vitamin D3, and dhea 75 mgs(25mg at breakfest 50mgs at lunch) just started DHEA today been on the other 2 supps for a little over a week. My wife and I are stilllll keeping out fingers crossed regarding fertility. I'm hoping the hcg and clomid are doing there part and keeping my soldiers alive!!!

So overall Im pleased with my progress. I could say that 2 weeks ago. I just wasn't feeling good. Looks like everything is starting to come together though. All the information have pointers from you guys have definitely helped me understand more about this life long commitment, so once again thanks to all who have contributed.

Will post the rest of my BW when I get it next week. At

[VTX1800]

LH-0.2
FSH 0.2.
Not sure about reference ranges for labcorp but they are in one of my previous posts on my thread.
Not sure what to think about these numbers. I've been taking 25mg clomid everyday since the start of my new protocol 2 months ago. Im on hcg 300iu MWF test cyp 200 mg/ml per week. (.5ml twice a week) anastrozole 2 days a week. I really thought the clomid would raise my LH and FSH along with the hcg. I'm going back for more BW next week to check on prolactin and a few others per the docs request.
This is a HUGE concern or me since my wife and I are trying to have our first child. The dr wrote a referral for a semen analysis but I'm having trouble finding a location to go to.
Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on how to raise LH FSH? I'm desperately seeking advice here.
On a brighter note, I'm feeling GREAT, absolutely fu@$&@$ fantastic. Gains in gym are amazing and my BF is melting away. Starting to focus more on cardio now that my lean muscle mass is increasing. Gotta say, life would be great IF I could just get the ole lady prego!!!

[Ryanmcd]

Alright guys, been a while since I've updated my thread. I'm on my iPhone (as usual) so bare with me on spelling and what not.
Im now in week 7 of TRT, I must admit I've made some drastic improvements just within the past week and a half. My sex drive is slowly but surely creeping up and my fatigue issues are GONE. I no longer seek a nap on my lunch break and I don't need an afternoon nap prior to my cardio sessions mid evening. My gains in the gym are just crazy!!!! And my waist is def. shrinking. Still need to focus on getting rid of stubborn body day in the chest and stomach. Prov. around 22% now.
I called my doc this morning for a referral to get a semen analysis and the nurse was able to give me a sneak peek at my BW that was take. Last Thursday. My FS and FSH levels are not back yet. She forgot to add them so they won't be in until Monday.

Test 1,148 (348-1197 ng/dl) L was 50
Free T 21.4(9.3-26.5) was 1.4
E 23.8. Was 13 don't have the sensitive assay ranges but used labcorp.

My estrogen is exactly where I want it, taking .5 mg of anastrozole day after injections twice a week.
My test levels are huge compared to my starting point 7 weeks ago.
I have yet to speak with my doc regarding the high test levels but the nurse said she was very well pleased and surprised that my levels are now in the normal range. Im anxious to see if she lowers my cyp dose or keeps me where Im at.
I started a one a day multi vitamin with no iron, 10,000 IU of vitamin D3, and dhea 75 mgs(25mg at breakfest 50mgs at lunch) just started DHEA today been on the other 2 supps for a little over a week. My wife and I are stilllll keeping out fingers crossed regarding fertility. I'm hoping the hcg and clomid are doing there part and keeping my soldiers alive!!!

So overall Im pleased with my progress. I could say that 2 weeks ago. I just wasn't feeling good. Looks like everything is starting to come together though. All the information have pointers from you guys have definitely helped me understand more about this life long commitment, so once again thanks to all who have contributed.

Will post the rest of my BW when I get it next week. At

Good news now do be a retard like 99% of the other people on this forum and change 100 things around lol. 1100 is not bad if your E2 is under control and you feel good, I know 1000-1100 is about my peak, 1500 plus I start to feel like shit again.

Also watch the HCG as it can bring that E2 up and I do it daily to keep things stable just 120 IU in the AM, if I do 150+ a day I get acne 2 days later but the HCG I would play around with and see what works best for you, I seem to see a change in 4-5 days after going up or down on it. Also with the DHEA in the mix you will have to balance that and HCG but it's not bad at all. Next time get your D3 and DHEA pulled in your bloodwork and see what they are at and you can adjust from that point.

Good work man, and this is my 1st post in a week + without someone going full retard doing 200+ a week because more is betta!

[VTX1800]

I decided to stop taking the dhea for now. I would prefer to get BW done first then go from there. With one of the sides being increased acne and E2 increase I just don't want to risk running up estrogen since I'm under control at this moment. I'm still experiencing some acne on my back chest and shoulders. I know it's due to the increase in test my body has received. I'm using ketoconazole shampoo to treat it now and only been using for 3 days now, it appears to be drying up some. It's not awful but yet it's not clear skin either!
I too was taking the hcg everyday at 100iu but after 2 weeks I decided to go back to 250 EOD. Just now sure about the hcg use. I definitely don't want to over do it.
Due to my LH and FSH being in the dirt I don't plan on refilling the clomid $120 for 2 months worth!!! It's obviously not doing any good, if it were then those numbers wouldn't be at 0.2. It's something I will bring up next week when I go in for more BW. Gains in the gym are just blowing my mind. It's unreal, now the goal is to get back down to 15% BF as I'm around 22 now. Gotta keep off that damn sugar though!
Thanks Ryan for the feedback.