Endo appointment advice

**Complete novice** · 03-04-2013, 02:35 PM

Hello all

I have been suffering from low test symptoms for over 18 months and have got no where with the 4 different endocrinologists I have seen! They say have a blood test, then ill see you in 4 months..

The strange thing is my testosterone fluctuates the serum testosterone range is 7.60-31.00 In the past 6 months with no treatment at all, mine has gone from 6.6, then 8.1, then 9.7, then 7.9 and my last blood test showed it as 11.4 no matter what the result I have always had lots of symptoms, such as; very low libido, poor-no erection, very irritable, fatigue, lethargic, fat gain (3 stone in a year) no drive, anxiety to name a few!

Anyway last time I went to see the endo, I made a four hour round trip drive took an afternoon off work and waited 2 hours after my appointment time only to be told I need a blood test at my local surgery witch is 5 minutes away from where I live!! I was fuming

I'm going back to see my endo tomorrow (made a complaint and they have agreed to see me again) what should I be asking him in particular?

He has offered me testogel, but I have a skin condition and Don't want to risk it! He has also offered me nebido although I have tried this before (12months ago) and it shrank my testes to almost none existent and gave me a spots all over my body and face, it was like a 3 month rash and although I did feel a tiny bit better it wasn't dramatic as I still had all the symptoms.

I haven't taken steroids before.

My most recent bloods are :

Serum TSH 1.64 (0.35-5.00miu/L)
Serum free T4 level 14.7 (11.00-23.00pmol/L)
Serum testosterone 11.4 (7.60-31.00nmol/L)

Done last week.

Sorry for the long post.

Any advice please.

**austinite** · 03-04-2013, 02:41 PM

When you ran nebido, did they put you on HCG at all? Testicular atrophy is preventable. What was your protocol on nebido?

I'd start with this thread, it will help you ask the right questions: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ou-should-know

Certainly get a full hormone panel with a sensitive e2 assay.

**Complete novice** · 03-04-2013, 02:56 PM

Thanks for the quick response

They didn't even mention HCG , and I only had the one injection due to the side effects and having no change in symptoms. Is there no other treatment available?

I think the rash of spots was caused by the oil in the nebido. I'm in the UK, why get the other bloods done? Just in case he asks me why I want them doing!!

Thanks again

**austinite** · 03-04-2013, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Complete novice

Thanks for the quick response

They didn't even mention HCG , and I only had the one injection due to the side effects and having no change in symptoms. Is there no other treatment available?

I think the rash of spots was caused by the oil in the nebido. I'm in the UK, why get the other bloods done? Just in case he asks me why I want them doing!!

Thanks again

Your symptoms are not necessarily testosterone related. Could be estrogen related or a combination of things.

**Complete novice** · 03-04-2013, 03:08 PM

Any other possible causes? I need to know what to ask him... He's meant to be an expert but seems useless!!! I don't want it to be another wasted trip

Thanks again

**Complete novice** · 03-05-2013, 01:43 PM

Just got back from the endocrinologist, He has suggested I try 200mg of testosterone enanthate EOW, HCG is not available on the NHS in the UK and he didn't think I would need it or anything else. his advice is as mentioned and see him again in 4 months time. no blood test no other advice.

What do you think? given my testosterone is at 11.4 now, will having that dose make a difference?

Thanks

**clarky.** · 03-05-2013, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Complete novice

Just got back from the endocrinologist, He has suggested I try 200mg of testosterone enanthate EOW, HCG is not available on the NHS in the UK and he didn't think I would need it or anything else. his advice is as mentioned and see him again in 4 months time. no blood test no other advice.

What do you think? given my testosterone is at 11.4 now, will having that dose make a difference?

Thanks

Where about are you mate in the uk.

**Complete novice** · 03-05-2013, 01:59 PM

The endo I`m seeing is at Manchester hospital.

**Kalani9976** · 03-05-2013, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Complete novice

Just got back from the endocrinologist, He has suggested I try 200mg of testosterone enanthate EOW, HCG is not available on the NHS in the UK and he didn't think I would need it or anything else. his advice is as mentioned and see him again in 4 months time. no blood test no other advice.

What do you think? given my testosterone is at 11.4 now, will having that dose make a difference?

Thanks

stick with that dose but split it to 100mg ew week instead that way you don't feel like shit after 9 days and waiting 5 more before taking another shot.

**Complete novice** · 03-06-2013, 12:44 PM

Thanks for the response,

I am going to discuss everything with my GP and try and get the injection either every week like you suggested or I may see if I can get the injection every 10 days given the fact the ester is only 10 days.

The endo told me nebido could potentially make me sterile and as my sperm count and fertility I normal, I don't want to risk anything. I take it enanthate is a bit less potent in terms of making me sterile.. and I wont have to wait the potential 6 months to witness any benefits. UK doctors wont prescribe HCG and don't want to get it off a dodgy website ect.. just wondering if I will be ok as far as fertility and testicle size goes? I also mentioned armadex but the endo just said I wont need that either... very confusing.

**VTX1800** · 03-06-2013, 01:10 PM

Your could have some fertility issue while using test, then again you may be just fine. It varies from man to man. Clomid will help to keep your natural sperm count up. Personally my doc has me on hcg and clomid for this same reason, my wife and I are trying to have our first child. A lot of the guys here though will tell you it's redundant to use hcg and clomid together but I need all the help I can get to increase sperm production.

**Complete novice** · 03-10-2013, 04:08 AM

Hello all,

I collected my test from the doctors yesterday and its in 3 1ml amps. I take it this is 6 weeks worth, on the prescription it says to take 0.8 every 2 weeks, I was going to take 0.4 a week but once the amp is open I can't store it for a week.

What should I do? I'm going to the docs tomorrow to have my first one, so could do with the some advice.

Should I be asking for anything else while I'm there?

Thanks

**Trific** · 03-10-2013, 04:38 AM

Don't suppose you can get like a 5ml vial instead of those amps. Could ask the Doc if he has an empty sterile vial or maybe you can go to a pharmacy and get one, then you can transfer what you don't use from the amp into the vial.

We'd actually like to see you divide the dose again and pin every 3.5 days.
Here's also where you can get a sealed sterile vial:
http://www.ar-r.com/accessories/glas...rile-vial.html

**Complete novice** · 03-10-2013, 04:43 AM

Will I suffer if I have it the way they are suggesting? Or will I not feel any benefit of it? It is only 200ml every 2 weeks, I've never had anything before so don't know what to expect.

Thanks

**Trific** · 03-10-2013, 04:53 AM

We're all different with how we react....you might end up with a couple of good days and then maybe feel bad the rest of the 14 days...I really don't know. I'd want to postpone the appointment until I had a better plan.

An injection every 2 weeks is so old fashioned. The nebido you had was still testosterone but with a longer ester.

I'm curious on what others suggest to you...

**Complete novice** · 03-10-2013, 05:00 AM

I didn't feel anything when I had the nebido, pretty much just felt the same. I met my gp on Friday and suggested things to them and they said they can only go with what the endo says. (Although I'm not seeing my endo for another 4 months). I'm going to use this as more of a test to see how I react rather than a life long treatment. I am going down different avenues, I'm seeing a shrink in the morning, and hopefully the test will help me lose some weight as I know I felt a hell of a lot better when I was lighter.

**Trific** · 03-10-2013, 05:12 AM

Good luck with what you decide and come back and report on what you're doing because others learn from it.

**Complete novice** · 03-10-2013, 05:43 AM

Thanks for that.

I would appreciate anymore advice, also has anybody raised their test levels and got rid of their symptoms without the use of trt?

**clarky.** · 03-10-2013, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Complete novice

Thanks for that.

I would appreciate anymore advice, also has anybody raised their test levels and got rid of their symptoms without the use of trt?

I'm in the same boat mate am just waiting on the endo app the doc said it will take 2-3 months so i started a test p and npp cycle the day sick of feeling shit been like this for months no labido ed lethargic no nrg.

**Complete novice** · 03-10-2013, 12:21 PM

How you getting on with that then? have the symptoms got better/worse? whats nnp cycle? (total newbie) I`m a bit worried about my temper when I`m on the test! I have a really bad temper and literally can get into an argument over nothing. As I`m a big guy I end up falling out with people and don't want this to get any worse. In fact I`m hoping it will make me calm down a bit and make me less angry. How you getting on?

**jomamma007** · 03-10-2013, 12:32 PM

In my experience, i am very short tempered and irritable when testosterone levels are low, but when they are at a good level, I am much happier and laid back. Kind of the opposite so called roids rage on my end, but maybe because I was deficit before taking testosterone .

**clarky.** · 03-10-2013, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Complete novice

How you getting on with that then? have the symptoms got better/worse? whats nnp cycle? (total newbie) I`m a bit worried about my temper when I`m on the test! I have a really bad temper and literally can get into an argument over nothing. As I`m a big guy I end up falling out with people and don't want this to get any worse. In fact I`m hoping it will make me calm down a bit and make me less angry. How you getting on?

A just started today so it will not take long a few day's to a week test p and i'll feel better again well normal npp is just a short est deca am kinda hoping the endo get's back to me when av finished this cycle 8 wks.

**Complete novice** · 03-13-2013, 01:07 PM

Had my first injection today!

0.4 ml of 250 so only 100 of test E, I had it done at 2pm and now I feel worse than ever! Weak and feel like crap, much worse than before and my head is pounding along with constant sweating and hot flushes!

I'm having the same dose next week! But I'm thinking this dose is to small and my test is now lower than before!

Any advice?

**HRTstudent** · 03-13-2013, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Complete novice

Had my first injection today!

0.4 ml of 250 so only 100 of test E, I had it done at 2pm and now I feel worse than ever! Weak and feel like crap, much worse than before and my head is pounding along with constant sweating and hot flushes!

I'm having the same dose next week! But I'm thinking this dose is to small and my test is now lower than before!

Any advice?

This is 99.98% not related to the level of testosterone in your shot. The entire process doesn't work this fast. If anything, you're just experiencing anxiety for a multitude of reasons.

Not only that, but you're definitely not going to be lower on testosterone from a single 100mg shot if you had low testosterone before. Nobody's body would process testosterone enanthate this fast... you're talking about a half life of a matter of hours. The actual halflife is closer to 4-10 days, depending.

Give it some time...

**Trific** · 03-13-2013, 09:03 PM

Congrats on getting started.
I'd continue on that dose for six weeks and then do blood work to see where you are at...Starting dose of 100mg/week is perfect imo.....normal starting dose is from 75 to 200mg per week.
Expect to feel better in 4 to 6 weeks.

**VTX1800** · 03-14-2013, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Trific

Congrats on getting started.
I'd continue on that dose for six weeks and then do blood work to see where you are at...Starting dose of 100mg/week is perfect imo.....normal starting dose is from 75 to 200mg per week.
Expect to feel better in 4 to 6 weeks.

I did my 6th shot yesterday which makes my TRT at the end of 3 weeks. Honestly I can't say that I can tell much of a difference. The only thing I've noticed is that at lunch Im not dead ass tired and nodding out. Also my workouts are a little more intense, I find myself pushing a little harder and more motivated to do heavier weight. The biggest concern for me is my sex drive, it's practically non existent. Im married to a beautiful women but the desire just isn't there. Hopefully this will overturn in the next few weeks.

The POINT of my thoughts... It does take time, it takes longer than what we want, just learn to be patient. I'm not a patient individual but when it comes to TRT and my health/well-being then I will learn to be patient.

**HRTstudent** · 03-14-2013, 12:55 PM

Agreed VTX, it does take time!

Not only that, but unless low testosterone was your only problem (doesn't sound likely does it?) then you may be in for a sad realization one day that it's all the pieces of the puzzle that make up "quality of life".

Take, for example, that Androgel discontinuation study I posted a few days ago. Tons of men were not getting results on simply TRT alone - results so poor they simply stopped taking it. But how many would have quit if they had a good doctor who used a multifaceted approach? I couldn't recommend the latter more!

**Rusty11** · 03-14-2013, 05:33 PM

I don't know if you've read it, but gd has written a very good sticky on the effects of trt and how long they take to occur.

And, totally agree that many people believe more testosterone will be their magic bullet. Not directing that to anyone who has posted, but just thinking out loud. Our hormonal system is like one of those 5000 piece puzzles-too complex for my pea brain to understand.

**Complete novice** · 03-17-2013, 11:57 AM

Thanks for the reply's everyone. I feel no different to before the jab now, apart from still having a sore ass, and sounds strange but I'm always hungry but at the same time, I feel nauseous when I eat.. I'm sure I'm going to put on even more weight as I'm eating rubbish... arrrrhhhhh..... I need to drop 4stone minimum...

Was going to ask the nurse to up my dose! But don't think she will, I feel like this isn't going to be the cure tho...I think my weight gain has a lot to do with it all but can't lose weight no matter what I do!!!

One thing that has made me feel better in recent weeks is a melatonin sleep spray, I feel loads better in the morning and sleep like a log when I have it.. May be worth a try if anyone struggles with sleep...

Thanks again for everyone's advice... Guess I'm just going to have to stick it out... Could really do do losing this weight tho!!! At least it would make me feel a little better about myself if nothing else

**Trific** · 03-17-2013, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Complete novice

Thanks for the reply's everyone. I feel no different to before the jab now, apart from still having a sore ass, and sounds strange but I'm always hungry but at the same time, I feel nauseous when I eat.. I'm sure I'm going to put on even more weight as I'm eating rubbish... arrrrhhhhh..... I need to drop 4stone minimum...

Was going to ask the nurse to up my dose! But don't think she will, I feel like this isn't going to be the cure tho...I think my weight gain has a lot to do with it all but can't lose weight no matter what I do!!!

One thing that has made me feel better in recent weeks is a melatonin sleep spray, I feel loads better in the morning and sleep like a log when I have it.. May be worth a try if anyone struggles with sleep...

Thanks again for everyone's advice... Guess I'm just going to have to stick it out... Could really do do losing this weight tho!!! At least it would make me feel a little better about myself if nothing else

Come on think positive.....you will hopefully pick up a bunch of energy from the T and that will help you exercise and help you eat better and then feel better...

**Complete novice** · 03-17-2013, 12:15 PM

I train 4 days a week, and generally eat healthy, seem to have tried everything but nothing is stopping this weight gain...I have put on 3.5 stone in a year... Still training 4 days a week

**Trific** · 03-17-2013, 12:46 PM

Kel just posted an article about this:

http://examine.com/supplements/Coleus+Forskohlii/

maybe it's something that would work for you

**HRTstudent** · 03-17-2013, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Complete novice

Thanks for the reply's everyone. I feel no different to before the jab now, apart from still having a sore ass, and sounds strange but I'm always hungry but at the same time, I feel nauseous when I eat.. I'm sure I'm going to put on even more weight as I'm eating rubbish... arrrrhhhhh..... I need to drop 4stone minimum...

Was going to ask the nurse to up my dose! But don't think she will, I feel like this isn't going to be the cure tho...I think my weight gain has a lot to do with it all but can't lose weight no matter what I do!!!

One thing that has made me feel better in recent weeks is a melatonin sleep spray, I feel loads better in the morning and sleep like a log when I have it.. May be worth a try if anyone struggles with sleep...

Thanks again for everyone's advice... Guess I'm just going to have to stick it out... Could really do do losing this weight tho!!! At least it would make me feel a little better about myself if nothing else

I didn't feel any better from TRT alone either... this went on for more than a few months. Once I started to change more variables at once and take a more integrated, multifaceted approach did I start to feel a subjective improvement. I don't doubt that most people's problems are more than just testosterone ...

**Complete novice** · 03-19-2013, 03:17 AM

Hi, what else did you change? What were the variables? I felt like cr@p yesterday and feel really tired today, my next injection is tomorrow! I do feel worse than normal (without the injection), testes are sore, feel really weak and didnt even have the motivation to go to the gym... don't know wether to see the doctor or not...

**VTX1800** · 03-19-2013, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Complete novice

Hi, what else did you change? What were the variables? I felt like cr@p yesterday and feel really tired today, my next injection is tomorrow! I do feel worse than normal (without the injection), testes are sore, feel really weak and didnt even have the motivation to go to the gym... don't know wether to see the doctor or not...

Like I mentioned in my previous post, I'm on week 4 of TRT and Im just now starting to notice my lethargy decreasing. Im not yawning and falling asleep in my lunch at work. Think about how long it took your body to get to this stage your in now. It sure as hell didnt take it 2 weeks. Your obviously not going to feel 100% better in 2 week, or even 2 months at that matter. It will take time for your body to adjust and get your hormones leveled out where they should be.
Hang in there and don't go adding more test just because you feel worse or you feel like you need motivation. It's going to happen, just do yourself a favor and work on the key elements such as nutrition, workout routine and rest. I wish you the best.

**Complete novice** · 03-19-2013, 05:16 PM

I know what your saying, just don't think the amount of test they are giving me is enough!
I'm 110kg and can't understand why I would only receive the same amount as someone 70 kg?!?

If I put £10 of fuel in a average car and put the same amount in a Porsche! The average car would last a lot longer than the Porsche! When Vets have given test to animals on the farm, they go off weight and size, not a one measurement suits all!

Just find it hard to believe and if the way I'm feeling is anything to go off, I will be right in thinking its not enough!

I'm having blood tests done tomorrow as I feel worse than ever (like death) also having my second jab! I wish they would up it tho!! As I've never taken steroids b4 I don't know how long it takes to feel them, but I have red people say they get horny ect after a couple of days and get morning erections ect, mine feels like its dead!

**Complete novice** · 03-20-2013, 01:07 PM

Had a blood test this morning! And my test injection this afternoon! Still feel like death, I spoke to my endo and he said to try 200 next week and see how I am! As my test is borderline he is questioning wether it is my test that's the issue!

I asked him what else it could be causing the issue and his response was he couldn't tell me! And now I've started the test he can't get any proper readings or see me for at least 4 months! Feels like a cop out really!!

He started me on test, I feel worse than ever, now he says see you in 4 months!!

My testicles feel like they are going to explode, had them checked but nothing untoward!!

This is ridicules, any ideas of what I can do?!?

Please help, as this is getting no better and "waiting it out" is not an option!!

**Trific** · 03-20-2013, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by VTX1800

Like I mentioned in my previous post, I'm on week 4 of TRT and Im just now starting to notice my lethargy decreasing. Im not yawning and falling asleep in my lunch at work. Think about how long it took your body to get to this stage your in now. It sure as hell didnt take it 2 weeks. Your obviously not going to feel 100% better in 2 week, or even 2 months at that matter. It will take time for your body to adjust and get your hormones leveled out where they should be.
Hang in there and don't go adding more test just because you feel worse or you feel like you need motivation. It's going to happen, just do yourself a favor and work on the key elements such as nutrition, workout routine and rest. I wish you the best.

It's just like VTX said...for some it takes awhile for TRT to get working.

**Complete novice** · 03-20-2013, 03:07 PM

I understand I need to wait, but is it normal to be in this pain and to feel much worse than I would do normally? This is what I don't understand!
Although i suffer with all the symptoms, My test levels were just in the normal range when last checked and I'm worried this will effect my natural testosterone and as my sperm count is normal, I'm also worried that this extreme testicular pain I'm going through may effect that too...

How can it be good for me if I'm feeling much worse and in pain! The doctors are just palming me off

**Trific** · 03-20-2013, 03:33 PM

If I was you I'd find my own source of HCG and not screw around trying to convince your doc you need it, HCG isn't accepted as needed by a lot of docs in the US and it sounds like none of the docs in the UK, so your doc would have to have been on TRT and had testicular pain to understand....I think HCG would probably stop the testicular aching and shrinking.

TRT is frowned upon because of steroid abuse in the past and HCG is frowned upon because of a diet scam, so it's a battle sometimes to do either.

Your HPTA is being shut down by exogenous test...that's a normal part of TRT.

It takes about six weeks of doing the same routine and then doing blood work to know if one is dialed in to a good protocol.