Pregnenolone & DHEA Supplementation

[steroid.com 1]

Fellows - Many have asked about supplementing and back filling out hormonal loops while on TRT for Primary or Secondary Hypogonadism.

We've discussed the use of transdermal applications and it does work for some men, but it's difficult to purchase without a prescription and is expensive. Additionally, like any transdermal, it will work for some but not others and everything in between.

TD's didn't work for me nor kel as well so we both switched to oral forms of both in a "micronized" preparation and labs for both indicated significant increases in serum levels.

It needs to be noted that these both must be in micronized form for better absorption. In fact, DHEA has such a short half life it's best to get it in a slow release (SR) formulation so serum levels stay consistent and little to no impact on E2 levels.

Better yet, if you can get both in pharmacy grade with the highest purity levels even better.

I have just purchased both DHEA and Preg as noted above from the links below. These may be of benefit to you if you are in market to purchase both as described above.

Read the sticky on HCG and you will see Dr. Neil Rouzier's recommendation on the same for DHEA formulation and dosage.

Good stuff fellows and hope this helps you.

http://www.dhea.com/product.php?productid=17557
http://www.dhea.com/home.php?cat=252

[austinite]

Great, thanks GD. Looks like they also have the 50mg Micro DHEA. I wish they had 100mg pregnenolone but hey, whats another pill?

thanks again.

[MickeyKnox]

This is fantastic!

And thanks for the links GD. I cant seem to find DHEA micronized for sale anywhere in Canada. I believe its illegal here. Isnt that sad?

[junk2222yard]

I cant seem to find DHEA micronized for sale anywhere in Canada. I believe its illegal here. Isnt that sad?

You mean DHEA is illegal? No, it's not, but it is a controlled substance here and you need an Rx.

See: http://www.food.ca/content/view/702/302/

[austinite]

You mean DHEA is illegal? No, it's not, but it is a controlled substance here and you need an Rx.

No, I think he means he cant find Micronized version.

[steroid.com 1]

This is fantastic!

And thanks for the links GD. I cant seem to find DHEA micronized for sale anywhere in Canada. I believe its illegal here. Isnt that sad?

I just got confirmation from the McPherson Labs that they do ship to Canada...so you're good to go Mickey my friend

gd

[jomamma007]

Someone`s been busy in the last 48 hours =], thanks gdevine

[junk2222yard]

Edit: See below (darn double post)

[junk2222yard]

No, I think he means he cant find Micronized version.

Oh I see. Ok.

By the way, can a vet confirm this:

1. There is no reliable way to test for pregnenolone (to see if supplementing has a measurable effect)?
2. The way to test DHEA is through the DHEA-S test (to see if supplementing has a measurable effect)?

Do I have this Right?

[steroid.com 1]

Oh I see. Ok.

By the way, can a vet confirm this:

1. There is no reliable way to test for pregnenolone (to see if supplementing has a measurable effect)?
There are labs for it but they are very unreliable as preg is stored in tissue and not so much blood stream.
2. The way to test DHEA is through the DHEA-S test (to see if supplementing has a measurable effect)?
Yes, and this lab is reliable.

Do I have this Right?

Correct.

[kelkel]

Plus preg transforms into other precursers. Which is pretty cool when you think about it. Or maybe I'm easily entertained....ok, it's the latter...

[gbrice75]

GD - are you now preferring this site (to buy from ) over Life Extension?

[steroid.com 1]

GD - are you now preferring this site (to buy from ) over Life Extension?

Yes gb, primarily because they are Slow Release (SR). I've done more research on both and the SR is much better for absorption and uptake especially for DHEA which has such a short half life.

I also like that they are both pharmacy grade and micronized as well.

Pricing compared to compounding pharmacies is better even with the shipping.

Don't compare these products to the shit you can purchase at a grocery store it's not the same.

I feel now these are the best quality oral applications one can take for the optimal benefits.

[junk2222yard]

GD - are you now preferring this site (to buy from ) over Life Extension?

Since gd confirmed this I just bought stock in dhea.com, as business is about to boom. (Also I hear that Life Extension just sent some goons to see gd for a "personal consult".)

[steroid.com 1]

Since gd confirmed this I just bought stock in dhea.com, as business is about to boom. (Also I hear that Life Extension just sent some goons to see gd for a "personal consult".)

Don't say that man, their HQ is like 5 minutes down the road from me LOL!

LEF has excellent product by the way, pharmacy grade and standardized as well...I like that the product here is the same but you can get in SR which is very important for optimalization.

[cornfedboy2000]

thanks for the links and the info, I've found other micronized versions of both, but I will definitely be trusting your source much better. Thanks again.

[MickeyKnox]

Just laid down the plastic for both. Crossing my fingers it doesn't get help up at the boh da.

[jwh7699]

Is it better to take 50mg of DHEA in the Morning or split it 25mg AM and PM?

Thanks!!

[steroid.com 1]

Is it better to take 50mg of DHEA in the Morning or split it 25mg AM and PM?

Thanks!!

You can go either way but optimally you'd take 25 mg in the morning and another 25 mg about 8 to 10 hours later. This will ensure nice stable and elevated serum levels which ideally what we want.

[MickeyKnox]

10-4! Thanks for the assurance GD.

[steroid.com 1]

Ordered this morning and this afternoon got an email confirmation that the products are already shipped on the way...that's a fast turn if you ask me

[HRTstudent]

Wow that DHEA is very expensive... I got the MRM stuff which was also micronized and 25mg... it was like 7'ish dollars for 90 pills.

Just wondering why you would justify paying almost 50 dollars for comparable stuff?

[MickeyKnox]

Wow that DHEA is very expensive... I got the MRM stuff which was also micronized and 25mg... it was like 7'ish dollars for 90 pills.

Just wondering why you would justify paying almost 50 dollars for comparable stuff?

Are you able to share the link so we can all take a peek at it. With that cost difference, there must be some explanation. Not suggestion its bunk, dont get me wrong. There could be other unknown factors.

[junk2222yard]

Are you able to share the link so we can all take a peek at it. With that cost difference, there must be some explanation. Not suggestion its bunk, dont get me wrong. There could be other unknown factors.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mrm/mrm.htm has micronized DHEA 25mg at $5.25 for for 90 pills.

[MickeyKnox]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mrm/mrm.htm has micronized DHEA 25mg at $5.25 for for 90 pills.

After careful consideration, i have to agree that GD makes convincing argument about the SR aspect of micronized DHEA. But the fact that the price difference is so huge, its difficult to ignore. Perhaps SR micronized capsules are that much more to develop and produce. Regardless, i have been digging all day and have located some DHEA from Andro Technologies that are 25mg but not micronized nor SR - and they still want 40$ for 60 50mg capsules.

Im convinced for my money that SR micronized DHEA is the way to go and if this means investing little more into my health, im fine with that.

Thanks for the link Junk!

[junk2222yard]

Im convinced for my money that SR micronized DHEA is the way to go and if this means investing little more into my health, im fine with that.

Thanks for the link Junk!

No prob. I just hope customs doesn't give us Canuck's a hassle. Bastards.

[steroid.com 1]

This directly from Dr. Crisler re Dr. Rouzier's DHEA recommendation on dosage and type for oral DHEA supplementation:

"If you get the more expensive SR preparation, like Dr. Rouzier recommends, then you will still be taking 50mg per day, but avoiding a spike in serum levels which increases E, and also somewhat goes to waste due to more rapid breakdown and metabolization. I am happy if I can get my guys to take 25mg standard prep twcie per day".

His thought on other modes of application:

"Oral DHEA is much better than nothing, but the last way to take it. Moving up the line next is a troche. They increase absorption, as well as increase DHEA/DHEA-S, as Dr. Shippen has pointed out. But still basically an oral (so you can't test using urine labs). Best of all is a TD. Get strong 100mg/mL concentration, and put 50mg (one pump) on your skin.

I used a TD for two years and my DHEA-S levels were below mid range. When I switched to a compounded pharmacy grade micronized pill my serum levels were at 80% of the reference range...big difference for me.

[HRTstudent]

Are you able to share the link so we can all take a peek at it. With that cost difference, there must be some explanation. Not suggestion its bunk, dont get me wrong. There could be other unknown factors.

I asked the company (MRM) for COA and they gave me one, although they don't test every batch. The analysis was only like a year old so it was good enough for me to try.

Blood work confirmed that this stuff was definitely potent. My levels more than doubled from around 350 to 900's. Also, I had a follow up lab done (another time) and after about 24 hours my DHEAs level was still elevated. So that tells me that (personally for my body) the stuff hangs around a bit.

Regardless, I can't say I felt anything from taking DHEA so if one's level of DHEA-s is not below mid-range then it might not provide much benefit and/or protection. I am younger than many guys though, so perhaps my adrenals have not atrophied as much due to aging. I'm all about bloodwork though... any lab can test DHEA-s.

[junk2222yard]

Wow that DHEA is very expensive... I got the MRM stuff which was also micronized and 25mg... it was like 7'ish dollars for 90 pills.

$7 sounds great! Have you had labs after using that show solid DHEA-S levels?

[steroid.com 1]

Wow that DHEA is very expensive... I got the MRM stuff which was also micronized and 25mg... it was like 7'ish dollars for 90 pills.

Just wondering why you would justify paying almost 50 dollars for comparable stuff?

Slow Release (SR). Very important especially when you consider that the majority of orally taken DHEA is converted to DHEA-S by intestinal cells and is absorbed primarily in that form which than acts as an "inactive" reservoir for the conversion to DHEA as the body needs.

The half life disappearance for DHEA-S in this form is anywhere from 12 to 14 hours which is way way shorter than DHEA which about 48 times greater than that!

That's why it's recommended to take 25 mg twice daily as opposed to one time daily.

So, in a pharmacy grade and standardized from the Slow Release is the best application for orally injested DHEA.

Read the HCG sticky and Dr. Neil Rouizer's recommendation on DHEA supplementation and dosage amounts. Dr. Crisler believes the only and best way to orally take DHEA is Micronized and SR.

So worth the extra money?

Simple answer for me: Yes.

I am on TRT for life and for me the extra bucks for optimizing my health is worth the extra few bucks to get it right IMO...but that's just me HRT.

[steroid.com 1]

Everyone should know; the DHEA pills that you buy at a store or vitamin shop or online are not standardized and almost none but a few are pharmacy grade. That means you don't know what you are buying regardless if its micronized or not or if you even know that's it micronized and the labels and add just say it. . In fact, there are studies on non regulated supplements where the active ingredient in the pill didn't even show up in analysis.

Standardized and Pharmacy Grade are way way different; when you read the label you know for sure what you are getting and what you are injesting.

Please understand the difference regulated and non regulated supplements, it's important.

That's why up to now after further research I switched from LEF, which is pharmacy grade, to the SR here but with the same standards.

In my opinion, it's buyer beware.

The SR argument is not mine; it comes from the top TRT Physicians in the field who see thousands of men and measure results and this is their recommendation not mine, I only researched it.

[MickeyKnox]

Once again, very informative GD. Your time investigating these topics and issues is very much appreciated.

[GeriatricOne]

Should I have my DHEA levels checked before supplementing?

[steroid.com 1]

Should I have my DHEA levels checked before supplementing?

Yes, or after 6 weeks after supplementing.

[GeriatricOne]

Thanks! BTW, GD, Bring back the hot chicks...

[FRDave]

off topic question - What is the best way to get your DHEA-S lab results tested? My previous two test have come back low (25 & 50mg daily in 1 morning dose) and am currently waiting for my results from 1 daily morning dose of 100mg (LEF brand).

All test have been in the morning (8-10am) and fasting... Due to the short half life, is this the best way to get accurate results? Or should I take DHEA in the morning and then get blood work done, say 3-5 hours later?

Just trying to find out if my levels are truly as low as they are or if they are being skewed due to my fasting (over 24hrs since previous DHEA intake)?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

[steroid.com 1]

They're here...ordered Monday arrived on Thursday! As expected, pharmacy grade, ultra pure and ultra micornized (whatever that means over micronized LOL).

As I said, for me, these are cheaper than what my compounding pharmacy charged for both under prescription yet the same from a formulation standpoint

Where it comes to my TRT meds, I don't care about cost, I care about quality and effectiveness and when the best TRT Doc's recommend it for their patients I am good with that.

Again, that's just me.

[Moparman]

So why take Dhea if you're adding testosterone ? I read the links and they seem to say Dhea w help raise test. But if you're injecting test you don't make test do why add Dhea to try and increase ur natural test?

Or am I missing something?

[steroid.com 1]

Read the stickies.

[Moparman]

Well let me rephrase. In the sticky for Hcg it says

DHEA Supplementation
Dehydroepiandrosterone: DHEA
As presented by Dr. Neal Rouzier, M.D.

Here's a great reason to add DHEA to your protcol.

DHEA is a hormone secreted primarily by the adrenal glands. It results in a shift of a catabolic state to an anabolic or protein building state.

 It reduces cardiovascular risks by increasing lipolyses (decrease visceral fat).
 It stimulates the immune system, restores sexual vitality, improves moods, decreases cholesterol and body fat.
 It improves memory, increases energy, and has anti-cancer properties by enhancing the immune system.
 It is an endocrine precursor to other hormones, prevents immuno-senescence, loss of sleep, osteoporosis, atherosclerosis.
 DHEA reduces insulin requirement
 Adrenal hormone anabolic vs. catabolic metabolism
 Restores immunity
 Prevents osteoporosis, increases bone density
 Prevents cancer in lab animals
 Prevents diabetes & heart disease
 Decreases visceral fat
 Improves mood & well-being
 Improves energy & memory
 Slows aging process in lab animals
 Prevents lipid peroxidation =
antioxidant
 Endocrine precursor to T.P.E.
 7-keto DHEA is not a precursor to other HRT = avoid
 Neurotransmitter (recently discovered)
 Presently pending FDA approval for Lupus (Prasterone)

Clinically substantiated uses of DHEA include replacement for:
 Low DHEA levels
 Chronic disease
 Adrenal exhaustion or corticosteroid therapy
 SLE
 Improving bone density
 Improving depression & mood disorders
 Enhancing immune response by activating T-cells
 Improving well-being
 Decreasing cardiovascular risk
 Improving erectile dysfunction
 Anyone over 40
 DHEA has never been shown to reverse the aging process
 Nevertheless DHEA is important for preventive medicine
 DHEA inhibits synthesis of thromboxane A2, reduces plasminogen activator inhibitor, and tissue plasminogen activator
– all decreasing platelet aggregation and ischemia.

Administraiton:
Men<200lb: 50mg AM
Men>200lb: 75-100mg AM

Women <50yo: 10-15mg AM
Women >50yo: 25mg AM

IMPORTANT:
DHEA Serum Levels
 MEN
 Range 100-600
 Optimal 500-600
WOMEN
 Range 50-300
 Optimal 200-250

Higher levels in women predispose them to side effects – therefore stay low
 Monitor monthly until optimal
 Assure correct dose and compliance
 Measure DHEA-S and not DHEA

 Side effects: acne, hirsutism
 Tx: Lower dose or take QOD Spironolactone 100 mg/day
 Contraindicated in sex hormone responsive tumors – breast, ovarian, uterine, prostate
 Conversion to T.P.E.?
 DHEA raises testosterone levels in women slightly, yet not in men
 DHEA raises estradiol slightly in men

Indications:
 Over age 40 for health protection
 Preventive medicine and well-being
 Symptoms of aging, mood & depression
 ‘Cause the medical literature suggests it if we want to live longer, happier, healthier

DHEA – S04
 MEN Blood levels
 Optimal : 500-600 ug/ml
 Side effects rare in men
WOMEN
 Optimal : 200-250 ug/ml
 Dose based on side effects
 Side effects very common in women

DHEA Dose
 MEN
 Capsule – SR micronized
 50 mg Q am
 >200 lbs – 75 - 100 mg Q am

WOMEN
 Capsule – SR micronized
 10 mg Q am if over 40
 15 mg Q am if over 50
 25 mg Q am if over 60
 If under age 40, do not prescribe due to sensitivity causing side effects.

Are these effects due to the testosterone increase? Would we benefit from taking the Dhea suppliment while on test cyp?